Why Were Alicorn Twilight Fanfics Recieved Better than it Happening in the Show?

[Ficta_Scriptor 165]

Yeah, you guys have made some good points. I too read some good fanfics but wouldn't want them to be canon. But still, Twilight growing wings isn't as far-fetched as a character dying or crossovers or sexual fanfics. (I don't read clopfics but that's just an example)

 

I don't think it's possible to judge changes in terms of 'severity' since opinions on these kind of things are completely subjective. Let's say Derpy was killed in an upcoming episode, perhaps in a really horrific way.. (eg she jumps into a woodchipper and while her death is off screen, it's obvious how she died) How many bronies would be supportive of this? Hardly any. But... I probably wouldn't mind. Hell, if it was represented in a certain way, I might even find it pretty funny. Despite the fact that it much more far-fetched, impactful  and off-the-wall, I still wouldn't dislike it the way I do Twilicorn. Just because something is 'bigger' does not automatically give it more meaning.

 

 

So much of this "hate", concern, whatever comes from fans thinking they know better than the writers, which they don't. That doesn't mean the fandom doesn't have good ideas, or smartly written stories, or wondeful art/music because clearly it does. The truth is TV is not democracy, it is a benevolent dictatorship, and that's OK. The writers have a few goals: pleasing the target demographic, pleasing the Hub/ Hasbro, pleasing the casual brony, pleasing themselves (I hope), and finally pleasing the hardcore bronies. This later task is impossible, and thankless, because you can't please everypony. We are too critical and too disparate in what we want. Not a bad thing, but it is true. I put many of us in the hardcore bronies group and we may think that since we are the squeaky wheel we should get the most "oil", but trust me that the writers don't. Honestly they can't think that way. I suggest keeping an open mind and make the change work for you however you need to. Many of us have an escape button if we don't like the ride through your own creativity or others, so remember that and enjoy. Most viewers are just along for the ride.

 

Yes, I do agree that we all need to keep an open mind, because none of us know what season 4 will throw at us. And in the event that I don't like it, I'm already invested enough in fanfiction to find enjoyment within the fandom. I'm gonna be just fine.

[cuteycindyhoney 13,316]

I, for one, find the whole twilight alicorn debate to be downright embarrassing. People have decided the whole plot of season four from less than five minutes of animation. People are insisting Twilight is abandoning her friends, even though Tara Strong said she is still portraying Twilight exactly the same, and that she's staying right in Ponyville.

 

I love the show, but things are getting way out of hand.

[Scythe 39]

 ...The whole point of her transformation was reaching an heightened or ultimate understanding of friendship. The spell was just the/an application of that understanding. This was the fulfillment of her character arch....Finally in Magical Mystery Cure she reached a point where she didnt need to learn anymore, she realized to power of friendship and enacted the plan where together as friends they could help each other reconnect the elements to the pony's and the ponies to the elements. Twilight realized that the harmony of friendship was needed to re-establish the connection to the elements a connection that she discovered to begin with and now fully comprehended. Its like a spiritual awakening that allows one to ascend. The fandom from the start compared alicorns to gods, but it seems now they are more akin to a buddah. Its not about doing something new, its about obtaining an ultimate understanding of something that usually pertains directly to the pony's talent. In Twilight's case she strived to study and understand magic putting off friendship. She came to understand it was important and in itself a form of magic and dedicated herself to the study of it.Until finally she understood it as the most important thing to her and an ultimate form of magic....

Responding to your points about Twilight's transformation:

 

If ascending requires understanding friendship as well as Twilight does, I fully expect to see her friends and a large amount of the population as alicorns. If ascending is not about doing something new (if it was, we should see more alicorns) and is a spiritual awakening from the ultimate understanding of a pony's talent, we should see more alicorns. Where are all the alicorns?

 

I really hope this isn't the end of Twilight's character arc, I'm certain there's more for her to learn or she'll be very boring.

 

Responding to the other cut parts:

 

Destiny and Free Will cannot exist together unless the definition of destiny changes. Unless, maybe someone with Free Will starts controlling others who would've had free will without such interference. Perhaps the show should have used words and ideas like 'potential' or 'most probable outcome'. I'll pretend the show used those terms. I suspect George Lucas was trying to redefine words or lost his dictionary.

 

Glowing eyes happen whenever someone is using a fair amount of magic. (Ex: Princess Luna's eyes glowed in Luna Eclipsed, Shining Armour/Cadance in A Canterlot Wedding)

 

Rainbow Dash is responsible for the connection through her Sonic Rainboom. I'm sure many others were affected by such a rare, giant, lucky, magical explosion. As for names, you have a good point. Besides being used for a quick ID of a pony and their talents by the writers/toymakers, I imagine the parents are forcing their hopes on their foals with names. Are all ponies named at birth, or just some Earth Ponies? I really hope Free Will exists in MLP, the ponies being stuck in a Destiny is disturbing.

 

I support the kind of foreshadowing that is paired with good storytelling.

 

I don't know much about the extended Star Wars universe except for some odd ideas like living beings without the Force (Yuuzhan Vong) and the anti-Force field pet of Admiral Thrawn.

...fans thinking they know better than the writers, which they don't. [TV] is a benevolent dictatorship... The writers have a few goals: pleasing the target demographic, pleasing the Hub/ Hasbro, pleasing the casual brony, pleasing themselves (I hope), and finally pleasing the hardcore bronies. ...you can't please everypony. ... I suggest keeping an open mind and make the change work for you however you need to.

Writers are humans and fallible, nothing wrong with questioning them. I still expect them to put effort into something others will view. :/ To make Twilicorn work for me, I'd need to like Twilight's character less, or have answers that make sense.

 

... People have decided the whole plot of season four from less than five minutes of animation. ... Tara Strong said she is still portraying Twilight exactly the same, and that she's staying right in Ponyville. ...

A season finale should hook viewers, not scare away viewers. Fans have some legitimate concerns against Twilicorn. Also, Tara Strong is known to troll for the lulz; Tara told her Twitter followers there would be no alicorn Twilight. Are you sure you want to trust what she says?

Edited April 9, 2013 by Scythe

[Anadu Kune 668]

 

1.) If ascending requires understanding friendship as well as Twilight does, I fully expect to see her friends and a large amount of the population as alicorns. If ascending is not about doing something new (if it was, we should see more alicorns) and is a spiritual awakening from the ultimate understanding of a pony's talent, we should see more alicorns. Where are all the alicorns?   I really hope this isn't the end of Twilight's character arc, I'm certain there's more for her to learn or she'll be very boring.   Responding to the other cut parts:  

 

2.) Destiny and Free Will cannot exist together unless the definition of destiny changes. Unless, maybe someone with Free Will starts controlling others who would've had free will without such interference. Perhaps the show should have used words and ideas like 'potential' or 'most probable outcome'. I'll pretend the show used those terms. I suspect George Lucas was trying to redefine words or lost his dictionary.  

 

3.)Glowing eyes happen whenever someone is using a fair amount of magic. (Ex: Princess Luna's eyes glowed in Luna Eclipsed, Shining Armour/Cadance in A Canterlot Wedding)   Rainbow Dash is responsible for the connection through her Sonic Rainboom. I'm sure many others were affected by such a rare, giant, lucky, magical explosion. As for names, you have a good point. Besides being used for a quick ID of a pony and their talents by the writers/toymakers, I imagine the parents are forcing their hopes on their foals with names. Are all ponies named at birth, or just some Earth Ponies? I really hope Free Will exists in MLP, the ponies being stuck in a Destiny is disturbing.   I support the kind of foreshadowing that is paired with good storytelling.   I don't know much about the extended Star Wars universe except for some odd ideas like living beings without the Force (Yuuzhan Vong) and the anti-Force field pet of Admiral Thrawn.

  

 

1) How many can claim to have discovered the connection of the elements and friendship, and realized friendship as a form of magic? the other five have a level of understanding of friendship that is higher than normal, however their understanding is not that of Twilight's. It was she who recognized the connection of the Elements to the ponies and it is she who is the main channel of that power. Im not sure I see your logic here how many ponies ever get a full understanding of their talents and what they relate to? Not many. Twilight's talent is magic and she had a very narrow view of what that ultimately meant. She saw magic as simply magic, a thing to be studied. As she was she was a great talented pony, but had she not moved away from that she would never had guessed that her talent could relate to friendship in any way. She never knew her friendship itself was magic. However her character arch showed the progression of this understanding until it reached an ultimate state. The other ponies haven't reached that point and may never as they have different goals. That's not to say they cant I could see lets say Rainbow Dash becoming a princess of loyalty, but she may never realize that as she has a different goal in mind that being the wonderbolts. 

 

2.) There has been much debate about destiny throughout the years. You are talking about the basic definition of destiny a predetermined event that must happen and dictates you. However there are different interpretations of destiny. Philosopher Arthur Schopenhauer viewed destiny as just a manifestation of the Will to Live, which can be at the same time living fate and choice of overrunning the same fate, by means of the art, of the Morality and of the Ascesis. There are others but that's just one similar to one I mentioned. Though my interpretation is different as well. Also the episode indicates that an act of will through magic can indeed manipulate destiny. So we know that destiny is in fact flexible to a certain degree at least through magic. I don't think its too much of a stretch to think it may be changed through certain choices as well. So yeah I don't think you should be concerned with destiny all that much. I kind of used to be as at first I didn't like the idea of cutie marks but realized I had no problem with the concept of destiny in Star Wars and other fiction for the reasons mentioned. 

 

 

3.) You have to think of why the Rainboom caused Twilight to go magic crazy. It was the connection shared with her friends, and Twilight has only ever demonstrated that glowing during times when she was using the magic of friendship through that connection. A connection she had not yet known about yet was expressing anyway. I cant see this being anything but intentional considering the amount of visual symbolism in the show. Seems pretty much to be an affirmation of their destiny to me. Not to mention it is the same writer of Magical Mystery Cure if Im not mistaken. Though to elaborate on the glowing yes its a kind of god mode when using an ultimate form of magic. In the case of Luna it could be she learned to use that effect at will for dramatic expression. This seems likely given how powerful she is.

 

Also the Thrawn trilogy is awesome. 

[Nature's Spell 526]

@Scythe Well, I guess we must agree to disagree. MMC moved me and was the main reason I became a brony. I'm excited and to me it all makes sense. I get that you and others don't feel the same, but I do hope that those that enjoy the change can just be allowed to enjoy it and be happy it happened. You're on the wrong side of history, and there is no going back. It happened to me once too, with a show I loved, but my only recourse was fanfic at the time. Hopefully you'll come to enjoy the change in time. All we can do is ride the train and see where it goes.

[Scythe 39]

Anadu Kune: You haven't insulted me, flat-out told me I'm wrong, or strangely enough, given up on me, lol. I respect that. It also seems like you've tried to see things from my point of view, as well, while I'm strugging to see Twilicorn or destiny in a positive light. Thank you for putting some order to our conversation.

 

1) Im not sure I see your logic here how many ponies ever get a full understanding of their talents and what they relate to? ... Twilight's talent is magic and ... She never knew her friendship itself was magic. ...her character arch showed the progression of this understanding until it reached an ultimate state. The other ponies haven't reached that point and may never as they have different goals. That's not to say they cant I could see lets say Rainbow Dash becoming a princess of loyalty, but she may never realize that as she has a different goal in mind that being the wonderbolts.

 

You know, that's an interesting idea. Princess Dash.

 

 

2.) There has been much debate about destiny throughout the years. You are talking about the basic definition of destiny a predetermined event that must happen and dictates you. However there are different interpretations of destiny. Philosopher Arthur Schopenhauer viewed destiny as just a manifestation of the Will to Live, which can be at the same time living fate and choice of overrunning the same fate, by means of the art, of the Morality and of the Ascesis. There are others but that's just one similar to one I mentioned. Though my interpretation is different as well. Also the episode indicates that an act of will through magic can indeed manipulate destiny. So we know that destiny is in fact flexible to a certain degree at least through magic. I don't think its too much of a stretch to think it may be changed through certain choices as well. So yeah I don't think you should be concerned with destiny all that much. I kind of used to be as at first I didn't like the idea of cutie marks but realized I had no problem with the concept of destiny in Star Wars and other fiction for the reasons mentioned.

 

You slogged through Arthur Schopenhauer's depressing verbiage, too? In his essays, at one point in time, he had the stance that free will was an illusion. I may have misunderstood him, but it seemed to me that he suggested art, asceticism, and morality as a way to deal with the Will/fate controlling everyone. I'm not sure if that's a better idea than his near-antithesis Nietzsche's attitude of love fate or be depressed. I never liked the idea of destiny, but I do wonder what kind of stance on free will/destiny the show will take in the future.

3.) You have to think of why the Rainboom caused Twilight to go magic crazy. It was the connection shared with her friends, and Twilight has only ever demonstrated that glowing during times when she was using the magic of friendship through that connection. A connection she had not yet known about yet was expressing anyway. I cant see this being anything but intentional considering the amount of visual symbolism in the show. Seems pretty much to be an affirmation of their destiny to me. Not to mention it is the same writer of Magical Mystery Cure if Im not mistaken. ...

 

I saw the Rainboom like a wave of magic crashing into Twilight, surprising her and unlocking or adding to her power. That sudden power certainly was chaotic. If it really was meant to be symbolism of a future connection, I could accept that only if there was more time travel, lol. I just can't stand the idea of destiny in something that makes me happy, not yet, at least.

 

@Scythe Well, I guess we must agree to disagree. MMC moved me and was the main reason I became a brony. I'm excited and to me it all makes sense. I get that you and others don't feel the same, but I do hope that those that enjoy the change can just be allowed to enjoy it and be happy it happened. You're on the wrong side of history, and there is no going back. It happened to me once too, with a show I loved, but my only recourse was fanfic at the time. Hopefully you'll come to enjoy the change in time. All we can do is ride the train and see where it goes.

Unfortunately, MMC really burned my biscuits and I'm still trying to understand how it can be enjoyed and come to terms with it. Just because the masses will swallow many things doesn't mean I won't try to save them via heimlich manoeuvre, lol.  If the show can put a positive spin on fate(or give the ponies free will), make me think Twilicorn truly earned her wings, and prove that it's not so lonely at the top, that'd be great!

 

I don't want to see MLP die by the same way as Gargoyles, X-Files, Prison Break, Transformers, etc.

[Anadu Kune 668]

1) Im not sure I see your logic here how many ponies ever get a full understanding of their talents and what they relate to? ... Twilight's talent is magic and ... She never knew her friendship itself was magic. ...her character arch showed the progression of this understanding until it reached an ultimate state. The other ponies haven't reached that point and may never as they have different goals. That's not to say they cant I could see lets say Rainbow Dash becoming a princess of loyalty, but she may never realize that as she has a different goal in mind that being the wonderbolts. You know, that's an interesting idea. Princess Dash. 2.) There has been much debate about destiny throughout the years. You are talking about the basic definition of destiny a predetermined event that must happen and dictates you. However there are different interpretations of destiny. Philosopher Arthur Schopenhauer viewed destiny as just a manifestation of the Will to Live, which can be at the same time living fate and choice of overrunning the same fate, by means of the art, of the Morality and of the Ascesis. There are others but that's just one similar to one I mentioned. Though my interpretation is different as well. Also the episode indicates that an act of will through magic can indeed manipulate destiny. So we know that destiny is in fact flexible to a certain degree at least through magic. I don't think its too much of a stretch to think it may be changed through certain choices as well. So yeah I don't think you should be concerned with destiny all that much. I kind of used to be as at first I didn't like the idea of cutie marks but realized I had no problem with the concept of destiny in Star Wars and other fiction for the reasons mentioned. You slogged through Arthur Schopenhauer's depressing verbiage, too? In his essays, at one point in time, he had the stance that free will was an illusion. I may have misunderstood him, but it seemed to me that he suggested art, asceticism, and morality as a way to deal with the Will/fate controlling everyone. I'm not sure if that's a better idea than his near-antithesis Nietzsche's attitude of love fate or be depressed. I never liked the idea of destiny, but I do wonder what kind of stance on free will/destiny the show will take in the future. 3.) You have to think of why the Rainboom caused Twilight to go magic crazy. It was the connection shared with her friends, and Twilight has only ever demonstrated that glowing during times when she was using the magic of friendship through that connection. A connection she had not yet known about yet was expressing anyway. I cant see this being anything but intentional considering the amount of visual symbolism in the show. Seems pretty much to be an affirmation of their destiny to me. Not to mention it is the same writer of Magical Mystery Cure if Im not mistaken. ... I saw the Rainboom like a wave of magic crashing into Twilight, surprising her and unlocking or adding to her power. That sudden power certainly was chaotic. If it really was meant to be symbolism of a future connection, I could accept that only if there was more time travel, lol. I just can't stand the idea of destiny in something that makes me happy, not yet, at least.

Of course. I see this and almost all other interactions on this forum to be discussions not all out arguments. That is why I have become frequent on this forum. This forum in particular harbors discussions not arguments most of the time. I can count the times I have been insulted on this forum on one hand(its about four) and even those were kinda indirect insults. I have only to my memory told someone they were out right wrong on this forum once. It was to the complaint that animated musicals were lazy and that it was lazy to do a musical episode. Which is actually wrong on a technical level, the second you decide to add a musical number you are doubling or tripling the work and budget costs for that scene. Though I wont linger on that.

 

I feel one must try to take on the others perspective, that way I can endeavor to better communicate and understand what the other is trying to say. That way hopefully my response is more understandable.

 

1.) Indeed not only Rainbow Dash I could also see Pinkie becoming a princess of laughter and happiness or Fluttershy one of kindness. Though I think it unlikely seeing as they seem content with their positions in life at the moment, they are not striving to an ultimate end goal at this time(though they most likely have one). Rainbow Dash seems most likely to me though she has her sights set on the Wonderbolts so it might be unlikely she gets to a point where she fully understands her connection to loyalty. Twilight was one of those rare cases where it was bound to click once set on the right path.

 

2.) What you say is true I think he did at one point mention the absence of free will. To me it did seem like he kinda had contradictions or perhaps changed his views. The reason I mentioned it is I could remember his name, I cant remember any of the other philosophers names that were mentioned in that class(I'm terrible with names). Though we went over the developed distinction between fate and destiny.

 

Fate ‘“ the preordained course of your life that will occur because of or in spite of your actions.

Destiny ‘“ a set of predetermined events within your life that you take an active course in shaping.

 

That's just a basic definition though. The views and debates get a lot more complex on how much of a hand you have in shaping destiny. So destiny by its definition is malleable to some extent. The degree of that extent depends on who you talk to. I view it as a set end goal that you may be pulled towards, but you yourself have to set into motion through choice (free will).

 

3.) whilst that's possible I don't think it fits with the overall theme of the episode. The whole moral of the episode revolved around having a deep connection between friends. In this case before most of them had met. I think the Rainboom connected all of them because they all saw it. All of the main six who would be and perhaps even then represented the elements of harmony all for a brief moment were connected. Its that same connection that activated the elements of harmony and that connection is in itself a form of magic, the magic of friendship. The focus seemed to be on the connection, the rainboom was what enabled them to be connected.

 

"All of us had a special connection before we even met"

 

"Today I learned something amazing. Everypony everywhere has a special magical connection with her friends, maybe even before she's met them. If you're feeling lonely and you're still searching for your true friends, just look up in the sky. Who knows? Maybe you and your future best friends are all looking at the same rainbow."

 

So the connection seems to revolve around the magic of friendship. With that mentioned it seems likely Twilight's magical outburst was in response to the connection the rainboom enabled not the rainboom itself. Also consider her cutie mark was gained. What is her talent? Magic of course. What is the ultimate expression of her talent? Friendship through the elements of harmony enabled by the very connection mentioned in this episode. Also as stated before the stars on her cutie mark represent her friends this makes sense if it was the connection that spurred her magic outburst. It connects very very well thematically and it seems very intentional and I think it most likely is.

Edited April 11, 2013 by Anadu Kune

[Shanks 10,816]

While I agree that her flaws do come out more in slice of life episodes, after "Games Ponies Play" and "Lesson Zero", I really can't name any flaws that she hasn't already solved (i.e. Obessiveness in "Lesson Zero" and stress control is that awful episode "Games Ponies Play").

While those examples clearly indicate that she has indeed improved they don't indicate that she has completely solved those problems once and for all and they don't guarantee that she won't backslide at some point in season 4. If they do this right she probably will backslide on at least one occasion, I seriously want Twilight to have an OCD freak out in season 4. She is so cute when she goes mental and it could help dial back the Mary Sue a bit by showing that though she has come a long way she is still not perfect.

 

 

I, for one, find the whole twilight alicorn debate to be downright embarrassing. People have decided the whole plot of season four from less than five minutes of animation. People are insisting Twilight is abandoning her friends, even though Tara Strong said she is still portraying Twilight exactly the same, and that she's staying right in Ponyville.

Just because some people have overreacted dosen't mean that people don't have actual legitimate concerns about alicorn Twilight it was thrown on us at the last second with not nearly enough buildup or character development to justify it and has so far been handled poorly with a rushed season finale which made so sense whatsoever. Luckily because there is far more we don't know than we do know about alicorn Twilight there is still a chance it can work even as pre mature as it is.

[FruitRiver 355]

While those examples clearly indicate that she has indeed improved they don't indicate that she has completely solved those problems once and for all and they don't guarantee that she won't backslide at some point in season 4. If they do this right she probably will backslide on at least one occasion, I seriously want Twilight to have an OCD freak out in season 4. She is so cute when she goes mental and it could help dial back the Mary Sue a bit by showing that though she has come a long way she is still not perfect.

 

 

Just because some people have overreacted dosen't mean that people don't have actual legitimate concerns about alicorn Twilight it was thrown on us at the last second with not nearly enough buildup or character development to justify it and has so far been handled poorly with a rushed season finale which made so sense whatsoever. Luckily because there is far more we don't know than we do know about alicorn Twilight there is still a chance it can work even as pre mature as it is.

I honestly think a lot of you have way too much hate for this. Really, just wait for season 4 to say a single judging word on it. 

I for one, dont really care, I like her as a unicorn, I like her as an alicorn, though itd be dumb for her to lose her horn, Id still like her as a pegasus!

I also dont really get why you think it makes no sense at all. Celestia made her an alicorn, its more of a 3 part episode, part 1 and 2 in season 4.

All in all its all opinion. Its not fact that its a good episode, and its not fact that its a bad episode, no matter how many people say it is. Its a good episode to certain people and a bad episode to other people.

(btw not just talking to you, talking to all  people that hate when people have a different opinion on it. Or try to get their points across how terrible or amazing it is.

Edited April 11, 2013 by Pinkie

[SBaby 660]

It's ironic that so many people have suddenly started throwing around the term 'Mare E. Sue', only AFTER Twilight has become an Alicorn.  Yet, many of those same people used to try and defend Celestia when I and a few others called HER a Mary Sue for not having any real flaws in her character.

 

It seems like this term has mistakenly become a way to justify an otherwise irrational hatred for a plot point in a show, when there aren't any facts or real plot information to back up opinions in this regard.

 

I'm not trying to single any one person out by saying this (as it is actually many people, and not just localized to one topic).  I'm simply making an observation.

 

As it is, Twilight still has character flaws.  Her turning into an Alicorn isn't going to make her flaws magically go away any more than it'll make her less intelligent.  I know for a fact that she is going to make at least one major MAJOR mistake this season. 

 

If anything, Celestia is still a better candidate for being a Mary Sue, since she's always had, and still does have, no major character flaws.

Edited April 13, 2013 by SBaby

[ShadowRose2k 271]

When I first watched Twilight change I kinda laughed a bit.  I don't know why, it was kinda a mix of "neat!" and "seriously?".

 

Personally I don't see too big a problem with her Alicorn status....IF the shows are well Writen! 

 

  It reminds me a bit of the Sailor Moon/Neo Serenity situation.   Basicly when she learns she is actually the Princes of the Moon  and Future Queen.  At this point it can be understood that her Friends are her subordinates and she is in charge.  Tho it is never treated as such.   She is a Friend First and Leader second.   Usagi continues to see her self as an equal.  (Also this in Refrence to the original Japan not the English Dub.)

 

We will probly see episodes reflecting her strugles in learning how to lead without alienating her friends.   As long as they don't contstantly use her Alicorn Powers to resolve each episode.  

 

Need more Pinkie Pie too!
 

[Ficta_Scriptor 165]

I honestly think a lot of you have way too much hate for this. Really, just wait for season 4 to say a single judging word on it. 

I for one, dont really care, I like her as a unicorn, I like her as an alicorn, though itd be dumb for her to lose her horn, Id still like her as a pegasus!

I also dont really get why you think it makes no sense at all. Celestia made her an alicorn, its more of a 3 part episode, part 1 and 2 in season 4.

All in all its all opinion. Its not fact that its a good episode, and its not fact that its a bad episode, no matter how many people say it is. Its a good episode to certain people and a bad episode to other people.

(btw not just talking to you, talking to all  people that hate when people have a different opinion on it. Or try to get their points across how terrible or amazing it is.

 

I don't think anyone, anywhere can be expected to not say a single judgmental word until the season 4 premiere. People freaked out when Twilicorn was first announced and the usual response was, "wait until the finale." The finale has come and gone. People should be allowed to say what they want.

 

To be honest, perhaps my biggest gripe is the fact that we have to wait almost a year for any kind of explanation. For me personally, it's such a stark contrast to my experience with season 2. Canterlot Wedding was, and still is my favourite episode ever, and it only made me more hyped for season 3. I didn't like MMC, (and wasn't particularly keen on season 3 in general. Except for Sleepless in Ponyville. My God was that episode awesome!) so I'm not so much excited as I am a little apprehensive. I honestly wish I could share your optimism.

[Sunny Fox 5,952]

 

To be honest, perhaps my biggest gripe is the fact that we have to wait almost a year for any kind of explanation. For me personally, it's such a stark contrast to my experience with season 2. Canterlot Wedding was, and still is my favourite episode ever, and it only made me more hyped for season 3. I didn't like MMC, (and wasn't particularly keen on season 3 in general. Except for Sleepless in Ponyville. My God was that episode awesome!) so I'm not so much excited as I am a little apprehensive. I honestly wish I could share your optimism.

Can you explain why you enjoyed "A Canterlot Wedding" so much, in contrast to "Magical Mystery Cure"? What was the problem with the Season 3 finale that the Season 2 finale managed to avoid?

 

 

Just because some people have overreacted dosen't mean that people don't have actual legitimate concerns about alicorn Twilight it was thrown on us at the last second with not nearly enough buildup or character development to justify it and has so far been handled poorly with a rushed season finale which made so sense whatsoever. Luckily because there is far more we don't know than we do know about alicorn Twilight there is still a chance it can work even as pre mature as it is.

I've seen you state this a number of times in various threads. Could I ask you to tell me why you felt the build-up was lacking or insufficient, because I have a very different view about it.

 

And a subsidiary question... did you like "A Canterlot Wedding"?

Edited April 11, 2013 by Full Spectrum

[Ficta_Scriptor 165]

Can you explain why you enjoyed "A Canterlot Wedding" so much, in contrast to "Magical Mystery Cure"? What was the problem with the Season 3 finale that the Season 2 finale managed to avoid?

 

I've seen you state this a number of times in various threads. Could I ask you to tell me why you felt the build-up was lacking or insufficient, because I have a very different view about it.

 

Hmm... OK, I'll give this some real thought, starting with Canterlot Wedding.

 

First of all, I absolutely loved Twilight's freak-out over Cadence. I thought it was quite powerful and emotional the way Twilight was alone in her opinions, was shunned by her friends, and even by her own brother whom she adored. It always makes me think of what would have happened if Twilight had been wrong. Also, Twilight's acceptance of the real Cadence during 'This Day Aria' (Did I mention I loved that song?) was really sweet.

 

Next, and probably the biggest thing for me... I'm an absolute sucker for badass villains. Oh man do I love changelings. And Chrysalis, she rocks. There's a lot to like about them in my opinion. For a start, you have to look at just how close Chrysalis came to achieving her goal. She was standing at the altar when Twilight and Cadence just made it in on time. The scary thing is that if Chrysalis hadn't approached Twilight in the first place, everything would have probably gone as planned. Then despite getting found out, she still  managed to take down Celestia. (Oh, and the fact that Celestia actually fought her just awesome. I want more scenes like that in future) As for the changelings themselves, they're some of the most fearsome foes in Equestria since they can take on any form they choose, and they even stopped the mane six from reaching the elements of harmony! I did love the comic book style fight scenes in the streets of Canterlot.

 

What didn't I like? I thought the idea of them getting blasted off like Team Rocket thanks to the 'power of love' was a bit sappy. If it were me, I'd have wanted Luna to bust in and take them down Nightmare Moon style. As for the way it ended, we got to see Rarity showing her true colours and some sweet thing about true love. D'awwwwwwwwwwww.

 

Right... Magical Mystery Cure. I will admit that a lot of my dislike stems from the fact that I've never been a fan of the whole Twilicorn idea. But, I'll put that to one side for the moment and talk about the episode itself.

 

There were a few things that I did like. I thought the 'cutie mark' song was good, and it was interesting to see the ponies trying to adjust to vastly different lifestyles. I particularly liked Pinkie on the farm and Rainbow Dash getting tied up by a band of wild animals. As for what else I liked... the scene with Celestia and Twilight walking down the corridor of memories was quite touching, and made me think of all the great episodes I'd seen since I joined the fandom.

 

As for what I didn't like, I think one of the big things for me was the explanation as to why Twilight ascended. The way I saw it, it appeared to be some kind of twisted staging on Celestia's part. (In fact, I plan to delve a lot into my theories about Celestia's motives in one of my current fanfics) She left the elements of harmony with Twilight in one of the previous episodes, sent Twilight an unfinished spell and then sat back and waited for the inevitable.

 

Now, I know that we can all agree how much Twilight has achieved and learned over the course of the series, yadda yadda yadda... But considering that MMC had by far the biggest event in the series thus far, I have some serious gripes with the reasoning behind it. Essentially, Twilight became an alicorn because she solved a problem that she caused in the first place in a really easy way and then wrote a line in a book. I know that's not what everyone is going to think, but that's how I saw it.

 

How would I have wanted it? Well, for a start I'd have changed it so that Twilight didn't get everything back to normal with such ease. All she basically did was go talk to her friends and say 'help out whatshername', and then sang a song about being true friends. Personally, I like to think about how much better it would have been if the rift between them was larger. (We saw something along those lines in both the Discord episode and Canterlot Wedding) What if Fluttershy had actually left Ponyville and Twilight had to struggle through the trials, almost failing a few times? What if her friends were so distraught that they needed some real convincing to actually help each other out?

 

I'd have liked to think that Twilight earned her status with some kind of amazing accomplishment, something that we wouldn't have seen coming. What if Twilight did something that was even a surprise to Celestia? It definitely irks me that the whole thing seemed like a set-up on Celestia's part. (Which in turn could be said for the entire series) Does Twilight deserve all this after what she's done? Probably, but the idea that she can do all that but only become a princess after a botched spell incident getting righted and making up a rhyme is a bit disconcerting.

 

As for the rest, the coronation was incredibly short, and while I thought the interaction between Twilight and her friends was pretty sweet, the final line "Everything is going to be just fine," was just cringe-worthy... Also, Celestia bowing to Twilight. I don't know what it is but for some reason that felt all kinds wrong.

 

All in all, if we're to compare the two episodes, for me it comes down to this. I don't think that I could have ever write or come up with something as awesome as Canterlot Wedding was. My expectations were completely shattered. With MMC... I honestly think I could have come up with ideas to handle things better. That may sound arrogant, but it's how I feel.

 

And now I'm gonna have to take a break from all this because I realise just how much time I've spent picking apart a children's cartoon. *faints*

[ShadowRose2k 271]

I swear Celestia weaves Fate almost as much as Ms. Friz from Magic School Buss.  Just about everything she does has a reason and what seems like a predetermined outcome. 

 

She places her pices, Starts the  conflict and sits back and watches.

 

She is directly responsible for Twilights change.  She knew what would happen.  I'm just currious on what her ultimate Goal is?

 

Is there a larger Conflict a head that will require Super Twilights Leadership and Power?  

[Shanks 10,816]

I've seen you state this a number of times in various threads. Could I ask you to tell me why you felt the build-up was lacking or insufficient, because I have a very different view about it.

 

And a subsidiary question... did you like "A Canterlot Wedding"?

I felt it was lacking because for one thing such a change requires a great deal of character and plot development which we had very little of directly involving Twilight in season 3. With the exception of the Crystal Empire two parter and the finale there was very little focus directly on Twilight at all which along with the rushed finale which should have been its own episode leading up into alicorn Twilight made it feel like it was just thrown in at the last minute. Yes there were some hints in season 2 and some in the season 3 premier that this would happen eventually but none that indicated that it would come this soon.

 

One of the hints most often cited is how Celestia talked about the "next phase" of Twilight's training which could have meant quite a few other things. I personally thought it meant she was going to be trained in dark magic as though she has shown an aptitude for it in the Crystal Empire two parter I think she is far from being a master at it unless her transformation has made her as overpowered as I fear. The book it showed at the end of the Crystal Empire two parter also seemed to imply this. I am not saying it was necessary for the entire season to focus on Twilight but to spring it on us like that wasn't exactly the best idea.

 

As for your other question, yes I liked the Canterlot Wedding two parter it is my favorite of the season finales despite the fact that Cadence and Shining Armor kind of appeared out of nowhere. It has good action with the fight scene at the end, excellent plot development and it does appeal to inner softy and hopeless romantic in me.

Edited April 11, 2013 by EarthbendingProdigy

[angrysalamence 49]

Well, my first idea is that most people hate change. It's in our nature, our genes, you get the idea. So, the changing of the main character (if you want to call Twilight that) meant it outraged people as they don't want Twilight to become an Alicorn, as this would mean a big change in the show.

 

My second idea is that it might upset fans to see an imbalance in the mane 6. Before this, there was two pegasai, two earthies, and two unicorns. But, Twilght would cause this to be broken, meaning one unicorn, Rarity, and one Alicorn, Twilight. This one is most likely than my first reason I guess.

 

So those are my ideas. =P

 

PS- I actually like Twilicorn. =)

Edited April 11, 2013 by angrysalamence

[Sunny Fox 5,952]

I felt it was lacking because for one thing such a change requires a great deal of character and plot development which we had very little of directly involving Twilight in season 3. With the exception of the Crystal Empire two parter and the finale there was very little focus directly on Twilight at all which along with the rushed finale which should have been its own episode leading up into alicorn Twilight made it feel like it was just thrown in at the last minute. Yes there were some hints in season 2 and some in the season 3 premier that this would happen eventually but none that indicated that it would come this soon.

 

In another post, I have already detailed just how much foreshadowing there was in Season 3 (link here), so that will do for plot. As for character development, I think there was that as well.

 

In the premier itself, Twilight learned two very important lessons. One was “self-sacrifice”, as Celestia mentioned, which is a very good trait in a leader. This is the pony whose greatest fear in the world is failing her test and disappointing Celestia. But she was willing to risk that, to risk losing her teacher, for the greater good. That’s huge development. Secondly, she sent Spike to do what she was unable. She delegated responsibility, again something that a princess needs to be able to do. But of course, you think none of it is relevant because it happened in the premier. I would have been perfectly happy for that to be that, but I’m just easy to please.

 

Outside of the premier, there is still some character development for Twilight, particularly in “Magic Duel”. There, Twilight learned that magic can’t solve all her problems, and that she should rely on her bond with her friends to win the day instead. This is later referenced in MMC, when Spike even suggests using the memory spell to fix the cutie marks. Twilight realizes it won’t help, but that reminding her friends of their true destinies by helping each other, using the strength of their friendship to do what her magic is unable to do. She also showed that she can use bluffing and misdirection to defeat a powerful opponent, rather than just using her magical muscle. How is that not character development?

 

In “Games Ponies Play”, Twilight learns a new skill to deal with adversity, taking a deep breath and reassessing the situation calmly. A lesson she didn’t learn in “Lesson Zero”, as we saw in “It’s about Time”. Sure, when things started going really wrong, she began to hyperventilate, but she didn’t go bugfuck crazy like she did previously. That’s character development too.

 

In fact, for a show designed for the episodes to be watched in any order, with a large group of writers that each have a different take on the characters, Season 3 probably has more consistent character development than the other seasons. It’s not as plentiful, maybe, but I prefer quality over quantity. Season 2: right after “Putting your Hoof Down”, “It’s about Time” had Fluttershy being a doormat again, literally collapsing under the weight of what she was carrying, while Pinkie Pie was floating along with a bunch of balloons. That would have been a great chance for her to assert herself. But in “Dragon Quest”, Fluttershy did seem able to assert herself. My point is that the character development is often haphazard in the show.

One of the hints most often cited is how Celestia talked about the "next phase" of Twilight's training which could have meant quite a few other things. I personally thought it meant she was going to be trained in dark magic as though she has shown an aptitude for it in the Crystal Empire two parter I think she is far from being a master at it unless her transformation has made her as overpowered as I fear. The book it showed at the end of the Crystal Empire two parter also seemed to imply this. I am not saying it was necessary for the entire season to focus on Twilight but to spring it on us like that wasn't exactly the best idea.

 

From this, it seems one of your objections is that the writers didn’t choose to go the route you thought they would. It could have been cool if they did make something of the dark magic plot-point beyond the premier itself, I would agree with that. They didn’t, and that doesn’t make it bad, it just means you guessed wrong. And the book at the end was explained in MMC, that it was Starswirl’s journal. There is no known connection between him and dark magic either, so I don’t see why it would be implied. Maybe it’s because the cover was black? You shouldn’t judge a sentence by its cliché, as it were.

 

The “next stage” of Twilight’s training is a constant thread running through Season 3. Twilight was being given regular homework assignments (new spells in “Wonderbolt Academy”, 12 books to read in one weekend in “Spike at your Service”), something which didn’t happen in Season 1 or 2. I assume that that’s what Celestia meant. The word “studies” implies the continuation of the student-teacher relationship, which came to an end in MMC. Celestia went from being her teacher to being her guide and helper.

 

There was also an entire episode (“Keep Calm and Flutter On”) dedicated to placing the Elements of Harmony in Ponyville in time for the finale. Something I really didn’t like, in fact, because it ruined Discord for me. Regardless, they didn’t “spring it on us”, at least no more than ACW sprung Shining Armor and the existence of an alicorn besides Celestia and Luna on us, which brings me to the next point I want to make.

 

As for your other question, yes I liked the Canterlot Wedding two parter it is my favorite of the season finales despite the fact that Cadence and Shining Armor kind of appeared out of nowhere. It has good action with the fight scene at the end, excellent plot development and it does appeal to inner softy and hopeless romantic in me.

 

“Kind of appeared” is a huge understatement. Especially given that for such an allegedly close bond, Twilight didn’t so much as mention, even in passing, having a brother at any point in the previous 50 episodes. That was far more jarring than MMC was, and I think anyone looking at it objectively would have to agree. There were also a number of plot holes, as this other member, Righteous Fury, listed here. I don’t agree with all of them, of course, but some of those are certainly valid. You seem to have found enough to enjoy in the episodes to overcome those problems, though. I feel the same way about MMC.

 

Some fans who disparage Twilicorn as being too sudden are eager to point out the Season 1 finale as well built-up. But was it really? The Grand Galloping Gala was introduced in the “Ticket Master”, and happened in “The Best Night Ever”. I will exclude those episodes, even though TM would certainly count as build-up. If you can exclude the “Crystal Empire” from the discussion, I can exclude TM by the same token.

 

In between those, we had “Suited for Success”, which involved the dresses for the GGG, and a scene in “Feeling Pinkie Keen” when Twilight was making Spike’s outfit, which reappeared in the finale. I can’t really recall any other build-up, apart from the dresses appearing sometimes without being referenced. (Of course, people are welcome to point out any others they remember which I might have forgotten.) So there are about the same number of references for S1F as S3F, but S3 had fewer episodes to work with.

 

My final point is that Twilicorn is the end product of 3 seasons’ worth of character and plot development, as was hinted by the “Wall of Previous Episodes” that Celestia showed Twilight. So focusing only on Season 3 and claiming that Twilicorn was rushed is a little unfair in my opinion. It was the culmination of 65 episodes, not only 13.

 

So I see it very differently to you. Not that I would go so far as to say "I'm right, you're wrong", but I hope that you can see where I'm coming from when I say it's not quite as bad as you think.

[AppleJared 87]

There is so much that needs to be said. First, I have run across people who HATE the show now because of Twilicorn. Hate it. As in they loved it previous and hate it now. This is crazy.

I understand not everyone will like the change, and some people will dislike it solely because they don't like change. But you have to look at it from a different perspective. This can either barely change anything, or it could flip the entire series upside down; and how exciting would it be if option number 2 happened? Talk about a wild ride! I'd like a few episodes where something in Ponyville wasn't the problem and everyone went home giggling!

 

I think it's sad that people left the fandom over the season finale. Yes, there was barely any dialogue. Please show me the problem here. We already knew what was going to happen in end so why prolong it? This will either way become a very interesting turn and I can't wait to see what the writers will do now.

 

One last thing. Even if the idea of Twilicorn turned to hell, we still have MLP and they'll most likely change her back to a unicorn. Be thankful everypony. It would be a darn shame if we couldn't love and tolerate the writers for the show after all of this. Especially after their show taught us to love and tolerate.

[Grtxkkyz 388]

Maybe because people never expected it to happen very soon or because they think it makes Twi a Mary Sue.I enjoyed the s3 finale and i actually like the Twilicorn idea.She deserved it for being such a great,powerful student,However,truth to be told,i never expected it to happen so soon.I was hoping it'd show up in the series finale or the upcoming movie.Anyway, the season 4 pilot will show more things and what Twilight really thinks about being a princess.

[FruitRiver 355]

I don't think anyone, anywhere can be expected to not say a single judgmental word until the season 4 premiere. People freaked out when Twilicorn was first announced and the usual response was, "wait until the finale." The finale has come and gone. People should be allowed to say what they want.

 

To be honest, perhaps my biggest gripe is the fact that we have to wait almost a year for any kind of explanation. For me personally, it's such a stark contrast to my experience with season 2. Canterlot Wedding was, and still is my favourite episode ever, and it only made me more hyped for season 3. I didn't like MMC, (and wasn't particularly keen on season 3 in general. Except for Sleepless in Ponyville. My God was that episode awesome!) so I'm not so much excited as I am a little apprehensive. I honestly wish I could share your optimism.

Well what I mean is don't get set on thinking it's until season 4. Also, of course people can say what they want, I just think we haven't seen enough twilicorn to say it's bad. Really all we have is that she has wings.

[True Rarity 1,240]

Just so you know, I may keep coming back to post more reasons.

Anyway...

 

• It's so sudden.
• You can't change Twilight while continuing the show and get away with it!
• I don't see how she can continue her studies on friendship while she's a princess.
• All her power's being emphasized, which makes the others of the Mane 6 look a little less important.

That's only all the reasons I can think of right now, but there will be more, that's a guarantee.

[Equinox91 1]

I have a series of groups online dedicated to this topic. We'll gladly give you some journals to read if you want too. Just let me know.

[WishingtotheStars 15]

I think people are afraid what will happen to everypony in the future. Like if Twilight will stay and remain friends with everyone or leave and rule some other place leaving all her friends behind.

[DazzioN 58]

I guess Twilight Sparkle will not be absolutely different, Is just some changes, like  the other princesses,Friends,Ponyville and around equestria will respect her.

 

Maybe maybe not she could live other place.We have soo much tiny information its the season 4 confirmed and will launch around winter 2013