sad A Canterlot Wedding-The Alternate Ending

[Wardaddy 470]

Hardly. I was sitting back here, watching the discussion gain steam. Don't think for a minute we got scared off, because I'm not finished.

 

EquestrianScholar, in no way do I condone Twilight's actions and yes, a time-out was the proper punishment. However, given that there was a threat of invasion from an outside force, Twilight shouldn't have been left in the hall, for in the Infamous Seven's hindsight, God only knows what could have happened to her. We all know what happens to Twilight, but do they?

 

Also, I am among those who criticize the Infamous Seven's response to Twilight, because they are her inner circle. Her family, her friends, and for Luna's sake, her mentor. Seven ponies who know Twilight better than anypony else, but apparently, despite the fact they've been through so much with Twi, they don't trust her enough to know that she would never lie to them. Some inner circle, says I. Even Celestia, who has been like a surrogate mother to Twilight, and has taught her from the days when she was young, to the point where she can entrust her and her friends with the Elements of Harmony, doesn't trust her enough to know she wouldn't lie. 

 

However, I will admit what Twilight did was despicable. Driving a bride to tears before her big day is an act utterly senseless and cruel, but as Night Light said in Chapter 3, two wrongs don't make a right. Know what that means? It means that while Twilight wasn't exactly Princess Perfect to begin with, the Infamous Seven IMHO treated her like dirt. And in doing so, they endangered the WHOLE OF EQUESTRIA!!

 

Need I say more?

[Hive King 2,001]

 

 

EquestrianScholar, in no way do I condone Twilight's actions and yes, a time-out was the proper punishment. However, given that there was a threat of invasion from an outside force, Twilight shouldn't have been left in the hall, for in the Infamous Seven's hindsight, God only knows what could have happened to her. We all know what happens to Twilight, but do they?

Why would they assume that their'd be an invasion?

 

 

Also, I am among those who criticize the Infamous Seven's response to Twilight, because they are her inner circle. Her family, her friends, and for Luna's sake, her mentor. Seven ponies who know Twilight better than anypony else, but apparently, despite the fact they've been through so much with Twi, they don't trust her enough to know that she would never lie to them. Some inner circle, says I. Even Celestia, who has been like a surrogate mother to Twilight, and has taught her from the days when she was young, to the point where she can entrust her and her friends with the Elements of Harmony, doesn't trust her enough to know she wouldn't lie. 

There's a difference between trusting someone and blindly believing something that was completely debunked right in front of them. The fact that Twilight seemed possessive from the beginning doesn't help, nor does the fact that Twilight was smiling while she drove Cadence out 

[GreyScholar 1,584]

Why would they assume that their'd be an invasion?

 

Shining Armor told Twilight in the beginning that there was a threat made and hence the heightened security. Edited June 2, 2014 by EquestrianScholar

[Hive King 2,001]

Shining Armor told Twilight in the beginning that there was a threat made and hence the heightened security.

Ah, fair point. Still, they had a shield up and leaving Twilight inside a secure castle isn't leaving her open to anything

[GreyScholar 1,584]

Hardly. I was sitting back here, watching the discussion gain steam. Don't think for a minute we got scared off, because I'm not finished.

Might I request you mention or quote me, I could have missed your post. Thank you

 

The problem is though they would have had no reason to believe that Twilight would have been unsafe. There was a freakin shield over the whole city and guards posted all over the place. Celestia and Shining Armor did not realize the threat was right under their nose. So really, walking away and out of the room so as to comfort the distressed bride while Twilight thinks about what she did was not improper behavior.

 

On trusting and believing Twilight words... it was how Twilight presented her 'evidence' and the crual, childish and shocking actions that her friends, family, and teacher did not believe her. More it was right during the rehearsal in front of everyone.

 

What Twilight should have done was speak to Shining Armor and Celestia alone, perhaps eith her friends, before the rehearsal and speak with them

Edited June 2, 2014 by EquestrianScholar

[Wardaddy 470]

Might I request you mention or quote me, I could have missed your post. Thank you

 

The problem is though they would have had no reason to believe that Twilight would have been unsafe. There was a freakin shield over the whole city and guards posted all over the place. Celestia and Shining Armor did not realize the threat was right under their nose. So really, walking away and out of the room so as to comfort the distressed bride while Twilight thinks about what she did was not improper behavior.

 

On trusting and believing Twilight words... it was how Twilight presented her 'evidence' and the crual, childish and shocking actions that her friends, family, and teacher did not believe her. More it was right during the rehearsal in front of everyone.

 

What Twilight should have done was speak to Shining Armor and Celestia alone, perhaps eith her friends, before the rehearsal and speak with them

Before I can answer to your reply, I'd like to ask you, Noodles and Dragon Master a question. Do you consider my defense of Twilight in the face of overwhelming evidence to be stubborn, childish and wrong? Because, from my standpoint, I'm making a pretty good case here.

Edited June 2, 2014 by Firebolt Blitz

[GreyScholar 1,584]

She can be, an example being Lesson Zero. Her reations and actions can come off as overreaction and paranoia.

 

That and it was established that Twilight loved her brother dearly and was mad about not bing told sooner about the wedding. The writers di a good job at showing Twilight as an overprotective sister not wanting to give up her brother to those around her.

 

Even though she turned out to be right, Twilight's behavior came off very poorly, inappropriate and appalling given the situation.

Edited June 2, 2014 by EquestrianScholar

[Guest90210 3,568]

I like this better than the actual ending! Good job 

 

BTW, you might want to add links to all of the chapters in your original post to make it easier to navigate

Edited June 2, 2014 by Rivendare

[Wardaddy 470]

She can be, an example being Lesson Zero. Her reations and actions can come off as overreaction and paranoia.

 

That and it was established that Twilight loved her brother dearly and was mad about not bing told sooner about the wedding. The writers di a good job at showing Twilight as an overprotective sister not wanting to give up her brother to those around her.

 

Even though she turned out to be right, Twilight's behavior came off very poorly, inappropriate and appalling given the situation.

Erm, I was talking about me. Do you find my defense of Twilight stubborn, childish and wrong

 

I like this better than the actual ending! Good job 

 

BTW, you might want to add links to all of the chapters in your original post to make it easier to navigate

I'll get on it ASAP, and thank you.

Edited June 2, 2014 by Firebolt Blitz

[GreyScholar 1,584]

Erm, I was talking about me. Do you find my defense of Twilight stubborn, childish and wrong

Oh... well in that case no not exactly, though perhaps misguided.

 

I have sought to reason with you and try to be logical but different people will interpret what they see or read differently and thus get different views.

 

You believe Twilight's friends, brother, and teacher are in the wrong for what they did. I disagree saying it was reasonable given the situation and for what they knew.

Edited June 2, 2014 by EquestrianScholar

[Hive King 2,001]

@,

Not really. In certain parts, you sound a bit like you have no counter (It's my story and I don't have to follow canon) 

[Wardaddy 470]

Oh... well in that case no not exactly, though perhaps misguided.

 

I have sought to reason with you and try to be ligical but different people will interpret what they see or read differently and thus get different views.

 

You believe Twilight's friends, brother, and teacher are in the wrong for what they did. I disagree saying it was reasonable given the situation and for what they knew.

How misguided? What I'm trying to argue is that Twilight's actions, while in poor judgement they were made, did not deserve the treatment she got. Nopony even gave her the chance to explain herself, and that is why I criticize the Infamous Seven's response. Besides, when one thinks about it, the Infamous Seven basically chose to let Chrysalis walk on Canterlot without them even knowing it.

@,

Not really. In certain parts, you sound a bit like you have no counter (It's my story and I don't have to follow canon)

When I said that, I wanted you and Noodles to just get off my back. I got so fed up of hearing that I was making Twilight out to be infallible that I.....resorted to such measures. All I wanted to do was vindicate her, not make her out to be a Mary Sue. In fact, that was the last thing I wanted.

Edited June 2, 2014 by Firebolt Blitz

[GreyScholar 1,584]

But give what she had said and done their actiin were called for and justified.

 

Twilight was showing herself to be a monster to Cadance (putting aside the fact she was fake) and would be seen as appalling. She was not being logical or reasonable.

 

Of note, it was not until after Twilight hounded the bride and calling her evil, having her break out in tears, that she even explained her reasoning.

 

This is the problem: if you want people you lidten to you and take you seriously you need to do it right.

 

Something like, "I don't I can do this Shining. Can we talk?" Then Twilight can explain the problem, showing her concern and worries without the shock of seeing her make the bride break out in tears.

How misguided? What I'm trying to argue is that Twilight's actions, while in poor judgement they were made, did not deserve the treatment she got.

I very much apologize I forgot to quote you again Edited June 2, 2014 by EquestrianScholar

[Hive King 2,001]

@, 

That's how debates work, though

[Wardaddy 470]

But give what she had said and done their actiin were called for and justified.

 

Twilight was showing herself to be a monster to Cadance (putting aside the fact she was fake) and would be seen as appalling. She was not being logical or reasonable.

 

Of note, it was not until after Twilight hounded the bride and calling her evil, having her break out in tears, that she even explained her reasoning.

 

This is the problem: if you want people you lidten to you and take you seriously you need to do it right.

 

Something like, "I don't I can do this Shining. Can we talk?" Then Twilight can explain the problem, showing her concern and worries without the shock of seeing her make the bride break out in tears.

I very much apologize I forgot to quote you again

LOL, it's totally OK. 

 

It would seem you've managed to chip away my stubbornness to the point where I can see past my enraged blindness. Twilight wasn't right in her actions at all, and the way the Infamous Seven reacted is completely understandable.  I think I need to have a word with TwilightDreamer about this.

 

You've opened my eyes dude. Now I see; defending Twi was a fool's gambit. However, I'm not going to delete the fanfic, for the only question that remains now is how I should finish it.

 

In the meantime, I wish to broadcast this message to all who still think Twilight's actions were justified: they were not. In her own mind, Twilight believed that what she was doing was right. However, to the seven ponies whom I revoke of the moniker "The Infamous Seven", in their eyes, the Cadance that stood before them was the real Cadance, and what Twilight did was shameful. We can all make excuses, but at the end of the day, Twilight upset a bride on the night before her wedding, and if I were her, I'd be lucky to not get kicked out altogether. So please, don't make the same mistake I did.

[GreyScholar 1,584]

It would seem you've managed to chip away my stubbornness to the point where I can see past my enraged blindness. Twilight wasn't right in her actions at all, and the way the Infamous Seven reacted is completely understandable.

Thank you for your time, I am glad we came to an agreement

--------------------------

 

Of note to all reading this:

Twilight is my favorite of the Mane Six and very much worth defending. Yet even the best of heroes can mess up and handle the situation the wrong way or even make the wrong choice entirely.

 

Twilight was correct that there was something wrong. It could even be said that there could have been a better scene at the end where Twilight's friends, brother and teacher apologize for not believing her with her apologizing for her behavior.

 

The fact remains at the time everyone (counting Twilight technically) thought the bride was the real deal and "What the hell, hero" was the proper reaction to seeing the hero terrorizing the bride and making her run out of the room crying on the night of her wedding.

Edited June 2, 2014 by EquestrianScholar

[Noodles 109]

I for one don't believe that twilight was acting like a monster. she believed she was right(latter showing she was) she acted on her convictions its it really so bad if you make the person trying to take over canterlot cry?  I am simply of the mindset that her friends and mentor did what was fair in their eyes! you seen plenty of twilight at that point in her life her mentor knows that sometimes she needs to just sit there and think for a bit. even if she was convinced that she was right the "time out" would provide her time to rethink her plan and come up with a better one! 

why do folks keep forgetting that after her Brother explained things even Twilight thought she was wrong? and twilights first action was to try to make amends for what she did!

 

she was devastated cause she thought HER actions would drive Shining armor away from her forever! not to mention hurting her old foul sitter.

need to make a correction. its is so bad to make the person you believe will ruin your brothers life cry?

Edited June 2, 2014 by Noodles

[draph91 9]

hey has anyone here read the fanfiction What Have You Done? 

http://www.fimfiction.net/story/149998/what-have-you-done

 

 

[Wardaddy 470]

I for one don't believe that twilight was acting like a monster. she believed she was right(latter showing she was) she acted on her convictions its it really so bad if you make the person trying to take over canterlot cry? I am simply of the mindset that her friends and mentor did what was fair in their eyes! you seen plenty of twilight at that point in her life her mentor knows that sometimes she needs to just sit there and think for a bit. even if she was convinced that she was right the "time out" would provide her time to rethink her plan and come up with a better one!

why do folks keep forgetting that after her Brother explained things even Twilight thought she was wrong? and twilights first action was to try to make amends for what she did!

 

she was devastated cause she thought HER actions would drive Shining armor away from her forever! not to mention hurting her old foul sitter.

need to make a correction. its is so bad to make the person you believe will ruin your brothers life cry?

Well, the way I saw your argument was another defense of Shining, the Mane 5 and Celestia. I was so outraged and angry at them for just leaving Twilight to wallow in the pain they blatantly inflicted upon her that I was driven to make this fanfic in order to expose the raw destruction and harm that had been wreaked upon her soul. The show never touched on this either, and I felt that i would be damned if I let the seven ponies responsible get away with this. their actions nearly caused the fall of Canterlot (and quite possibly the deaths of several thousand ponies, not to mention the princesses themselves. And as for the endgame, all of Equestria. Knowing that Chrysalis wanted love, it's not hard to imagine she wouldn't have stopped at Canterlot. No greedy, confident villain stops at just one)

 

This is what I've been trying to tell you the whole time. I felt that Twilight was right to confront impostor Cadance openly and that Celestia, Shining and the Mane 5 were utterly wrong in their treatment of their sister, friend and student. True enough that Twilight had upset a bride, but in a situation where the safety of thousands of ponies is threatened, it shouldn't matter who is who and what is what. What matters is that the city is secure and the wedding can go ahead unopposed. I never said Twilight was infallible, not even from the beginning. She did what she had to do, and her intentions were to protect those she loved. However, in light of recent events, it seems this case is indefensible. I must go with the flow and admit that not upsetting a bride before her big day is more important that trying to protect your family and friends.

Edited June 14, 2014 by Firebolt Blitz

[Noodles 109]

that's a good start on understanding. I never said that twilight was not deeply effected. how ever if you do take lesson zero into account it dose show quite clear is that twilight has and still did as of the time of the wedding way overreact to situations and tends to draw the worst possible conclusions from them. so her friends and teacher do have to take that into account when dealing with her. Really in lesson zero Twilight did blow things way out of proportion. and if you really think about it her friends really treated her worse in lesson zero. she was clearly troubled and her friends just  laughed in her face. in this chase she was given a time out. and if she as shown was correct she would have been forced to think about plan b. again she was clearly devastated because she thought HER actions would drive her brother away. and welcome back?

 

Edited June 15, 2014 by Noodles

[rst64tlc 11]

hey has anyone here read the fanfiction What Have You Done? 

http://www.fimfiction.net/story/149998/what-have-you-done

I read this and it great. Love it.

[TwilightDreamer 69]

I read this and it great. Love it.

 

Oh yeah, I loved it and it really delivers a painful and tragic ending to the fake wedding and puts out a darker twist into the tale and by the way, it's got a sequel out.

[draph91 9]

yeah in fact  Mega-Diancie put it best in the comments of the last chapter of What Have You Done? and cloudedguardian put it best in the comments of the sequel Even As...

 

-Back when Discord tested the Mane 6, Rainbow chose Cloudsdale over her friends. Loyalty didn't have an issue with this. She had to pick one or the other, and she had loyalties to both that were precious. She chose Cloudsdale. That was fine.

But then Rainbow Dash rejected Loyalty. He didn't understand the why, but rather that she felt like she was no longer worthy. It took Twilight reminding Rainbow of her worth before he was accepted back as her Element.

Then the wedding comes. Rainbow Dash chooses Cadence over Twilight. A Princess she has no loyalty with over her best friend. It may very well be that Loyalty still doesn't understand the why, but he knows one thing- Choosing someone else over friends equals lack of worth. Rainbow herself made that quite clear. But this time, there aren't any other precious loyalties, no wiggle room for forgiveness. And so Loyalty rejects her

 

-Rarity was looking for praise for her dresses, her chance to be a bridesmaid, and a chance to suck up to Canterlot higher-ups. Something that is normally  greedy for most of us as we would normally feel it if we were in her shoes, but she abandoned Twilight and chose the wedding over her, thus her greed over-shined her generosity. and so Generosity rejects her 

 

-Applejack promised to take Twilight more seriously whenever she was worried and to listen. But all she simply thought Twilight was being silly and refused to listen to her at ALL, which helped drive Twilight to making that confrontation in the hall as no pony would listen. And like that, a promise became a dirty lie. and so Honesty rejects her

 

-Pinkie Pie was so concerned with her views of making sure the wedding was a happy time and seeing the good in the world while ignoring the bad, she failed to realize that Twilight was in dire need of comfort and hope, even thinking of her as a 'party-pooper'. Laughter means cheering up everyone who needs it, not just deluding yourself into focusing on the happy stuff and ignoring the bad. So by the time Pinkamena made her realize, it was already too late and so Laughter rejects her

 

-As for Fluttershy...ignoring other's concerns, failing to realize someone is being cruel towards somepony and towards her birds due to the wedding or flat out ignoring it, and flat out abandoning a broken pony, choosing the wedding over her...That's even more cruel then she was than she was in 'assertive mode' and so Kindness rejects her

 

As for Magic's words: Its understandable. Twilight's friends threw her away, sending her into despair. Now Magic is in despair because Twilight has turned her back on it due to her depression. 

 

also Trixie was right in Turnabout Storm about Friendship and I'm sadly agree with her

 

“There’s no MAGIC in it—it’s just a word, nothing more, and it’s completely unnecessary." 

Edited June 28, 2014 by draph91

[Wardaddy 470]

yeah in fact  Mega-Diancie put it best in the comments of the last chapter of What Have You Done? and cloudedguardian put it best in the comments of the sequel Even As...

 

-Back when Discord tested the Mane 6, Rainbow chose Cloudsdale over her friends. Loyalty didn't have an issue with this. She had to pick one or the other, and she had loyalties to both that were precious. She chose Cloudsdale. That was fine.

But then Rainbow Dash rejected Loyalty. He didn't understand the why, but rather that she felt like she was no longer worthy. It took Twilight reminding Rainbow of her worth before he was accepted back as her Element.

Then the wedding comes. Rainbow Dash chooses Cadence over Twilight. A Princess she has no loyalty with over her best friend. It may very well be that Loyalty still doesn't understand the why, but he knows one thing- Choosing someone else over friends equals lack of worth. Rainbow herself made that quite clear. But this time, there aren't any other precious loyalties, no wiggle room for forgiveness. And so Loyalty rejects her

 

-Rarity was looking for praise for her dresses, her chance to be a bridesmaid, and a chance to suck up to Canterlot higher-ups. Something that is normally  greedy for most of us as we would normally feel it if we were in her shoes, but she abandoned Twilight and chose the wedding over her, thus her greed over-shined her generosity. and so Generosity rejects her 

 

-Applejack promised to take Twilight more seriously whenever she was worried and to listen. But all she simply thought Twilight was being silly and refused to listen to her at ALL, which helped drive Twilight to making that confrontation in the hall as no pony would listen. And like that, a promise became a dirty lie. and so Honesty rejects her

 

-Pinkie Pie was so concerned with her views of making sure the wedding was a happy time and seeing the good in the world while ignoring the bad, she failed to realize that Twilight was in dire need of comfort and hope, even thinking of her as a 'party-pooper'. Laughter means cheering up everyone who needs it, not just deluding yourself into focusing on the happy stuff and ignoring the bad. So by the time Pinkamena made her realize, it was already too late and so Laughter rejects her

 

-As for Fluttershy...ignoring other's concerns, failing to realize someone is being cruel towards somepony and towards her birds due to the wedding or flat out ignoring it, and flat out abandoning a broken pony, choosing the wedding over her...That's even more cruel then she was than she was in 'assertive mode' and so Kindness rejects her

 

As for Magic's words: Its understandable. Twilight's friends threw her away, sending her into despair. Now Magic is in despair because Twilight has turned her back on it due to her depression. 

 

also Trixie was right in Turnabout Storm about Friendship and I'm sadly agree with her

 

“There’s no MAGIC in it—it’s just a word, nothing more, and it’s completely unnecessary." 

This, this is why I started this fanfic in the first place.

 

This goes out to the guys who thought I got butthurt because Twilight didn't deserve to get abandoned. 

 

Of course Twi deserved to get punished, but do you want to know why I condemned the Infamous Seven for walking out on her? Because Twilight was torn apart by her brother. She needed her friends to stay with her, but they refused to give her that comfort. In doing so, they broke a promise they made to take Twilight more seriously from that point onwards.

 

Perhaps if Twilight was not left broken by her brother, then she would've taken abandonment on the chin, knowing she deserved it. But in this case, Twilight needed the support only a true, true friend could give, but what did her so-called friends do? They left her in pieces. And her mentor was no better.

 

Princess Celestia, who has cared for Twilight like a mother and has held her in such high regard, should've known better than to leave her student in the state she was. And what she said was cold. "You have a lot to think about"

 

"What the hell, hero"? More like "What the hell, Princess?"

 

That's one of the many reasons why I started this fanfic in the first place. And once more, I find myself questioning why I should be assimilated into the side that says "Twilight deserves it". Just like in "What Have You Done?" when the Elements reject their Bearers for breaking their promise, the citizens of Canterlot will now reject their Princess and the Element Bearers for putting their lives in danger.

Edited June 28, 2014 by Firebolt Blitz

[draph91 9]

This, this is why I started this fanfic in the first place.

 

This goes out to the guys who thought I got butthurt because Twilight didn't deserve to get abandoned. 

 

Of course Twi deserved to get punished, but do you want to know why I condemned the Infamous Seven for walking out on her? Because Twilight was torn apart by her brother. She needed her friends to stay with her, but they refused to give her that comfort. In doing so, they broke a promise they made to take Twilight more seriously from that point onwards.

 

Perhaps if Twilight was not left broken by her brother, then she would've taken abandonment on the chin, knowing she deserved it. But in this case, Twilight needed the support only a true, true friend could give, but what did her so-called friends do? They left her in pieces. And her mentor was no better.

 

Princess Celestia, who has cared for Twilight like a mother and has held her in such high regard, should've known better than to leave her student in the state she was. And what she said was cold. "You have a lot to think about"

 

"What the hell, hero"? More like "What the hell, Princess?"

 

That's one of the many reasons why I started this fanfic in the first place. And once more, I find myself questioning why I should be assimilated into the side that says "Twilight deserves it".

 

I'm sorry, EquestrianScholar, but as much as Twilight deserved a punishment, this was the one punishment she was unworthy of. Once more I must push for her vindication, if it has not already occurred.

Also what Luna said to Celestia, I agree with her also I have to ask this, what good is she?

 

to those who are wondering this is it

Not only did you, Shining Armor and Twilight's friends hurt her, you alienated her and drove her away! I do hope you know what it is to be ashamed, sister, because you deserve it. Nopony in their right mind should ever hurt anypony like that! You had a duty to protect and serve her as Princess of the Sun and as her mentor, but instead, you left her to whatever fate may have befallen her other than imprisonment! And by abandoning Twilight, you abandoned your kingdom, your subjects, and everything else in between! If Twilight had been murdered, then Equestria would have fallen months earlier!"