S02:E18 - A Friend in Deed

[Queen Cassie 3,057]

I agree. I, too, had the impression Cranky was in his fifties or early sixties. The loss of his hair (although that might have been partly due to stress), his slowed movements, and desire to retire suggest he's in that age range rather than elderly.

Indeed. Especially his overall demenor. He struck me as someone resigned to his fate, that he would never find the happiness he so deserved. He was angry and bitter, and thus there was no chance of Pinkie winning him over without lucking out.

 

Did you ever happen to explain your age approximation of the Mane 6? I believe you have but I cannot recall it off-hand. It would probably be in the thread about their ages, if anywhere.

 

Indeed I did, here:

http://mlpforums.com...post__p__114683

 

Oh, and I forgot to mention in my general post that Pinkie continues to be easily one of the more intelligent ponies on the show. That she managed to put together Matilda being Cranky's long lost love was impressive enough: Pinkie also paid close attention to detail and displayed a strong memory when it otherwise seemed she was oblivious. It's lovely when Pinkie is shown as being more than a superficially ditzy, party loving pony.

 

I've said as much in posts of my own, including my analysis. (It's in the Pinkie Pie fanclub thread, in the first post.) To paraphrase: her Pinkie Sense basically gives her an intuition beyond almost anypony else with the possible exception of the Princesses. She can still be obvlious at times, such as when she failed to notice Cranky's obvious discomfort at her actions in regards to his hair, but she's definitely an intelligent mare. After all, she built that Griffon Chaser copter thingie in Griffon the Brush Off in MINUTES.

 

That said, she still lucked out, I think. If Matilda didn't live in Ponyville, all she would have accomplished was one final smack in the face for poor Cranky, a ruining of his peace and quiet. I could easily see an alternate ending to this episode where she fails to make amends and he seeks some kind of vengeance...

Edited February 18, 2012 by Kyronea

[Twi Rubix 726]

Saw the episode a few hours ago.It wasn't bad, but not the best episode.

 

Anyone else notice Rainbow Dash was reading the next Daring Do book?

[Apple Bloom 2,933]

Don't mean to say anything, but I'm pretty sure I had originally posted that in this thread.

 

My apologies. I meant to quote @Luna-Twilight-Sparkle.

[Inactive01 5,299]

I just watched this episode. I clapped for so long. By far the best episode in the whole series. After that song, I wanted an encore. However, I felt that "Smile, Smile, Smile" was so good that it should have been part of a musical or a feature-length movie.

 

EDIT: I'm so tempted to find a way to blare this song to everyone in my university. I'll blare it right before exam week if I can.

Edited February 18, 2012 by Derpity Derp

[Yellow Diamond 7,568]

With respect to Pinkie's intelligence, we should also continue to account for her social abilities. I have no hard facts at my disposal, but a close friend of mine who studies psychology explained to me a while ago that social skills correlate with heightened intelligence. Roughly estimated, it peaks at about 140 or 150 on the Stanford-Binet intelligence quotient test. Afterward, there begins a sharp decline in social and interpersonal skills. While the IQ test alone is probably not the best way to rate intelligence, it may give us some indication as to how intelligent Pinkie is. And when you factor in her creative skills and the aforementioned chopper from "Griffon the Brush-Off", I think it's safe to say you're not dealing with just a cartoonish pony.

 

And I'm still of the opinion that Pinkie had set up a Xanatos Gambit (i.e., a situation in which she could not lose) at the party for Gilda.

[Zero000 435]

[NeverNeverland 1,940]

I think that was the first episode of MLP I've truly enjoyed in a while. And all because of Pinkie Pie...

[Mister Jack 566]

[Queen Cassie 3,057]

With respect to Pinkie's intelligence, we should also continue to account for her social abilities. I have no hard facts at my disposal, but a close friend of mine who studies psychology explained to me a while ago that social skills correlate with heightened intelligence. Roughly estimated, it peaks at about 140 or 150 on the Stanford-Binet intelligence quotient test. Afterward, there begins a sharp decline in social and interpersonal skills. While the IQ test alone is probably not the best way to rate intelligence, it may give us some indication as to how intelligent Pinkie is. And when you factor in her creative skills and the aforementioned chopper from "Griffon the Brush-Off", I think it's safe to say you're not dealing with just a cartoonish pony.

 

And I'm still of the opinion that Pinkie had set up a Xanatos Gambit (i.e., a situation in which she could not lose) at the party for Gilda.

 

Well, I wouldn't quite be so quick to state that, if only because there are just as many studies showing a correlation between intelligence and aloofness or introverted behavior. As well as studies that show a correlation between compassion and intelligence. Still, Pinkie is clearly intelligent in the inituitve sense at the very least...I don't quite think she'd be as book smart, so to speak, as Twilight, but she'd be able to approach things from a different way and still get great results. Or, in other words, she'd probably not be very good at taking tests, but you ask her to build some new device for you and she'd be able to do it lickity split.

 

As for a Xanatos Gambit...well, I'm not quite so sure about that either, but only because Pinkie strikes me as so hyperactive and full of energy that it would be a little difficult for her to plan such a thing in advance. Not that she couldn't, but that it would be harder because she'd have to stay focused for longer, something she might find extremely difficult.

 

On the other hand, we have seen her zone in on goals in the past that she refuses to let go of once they're in her sight, so I could be completely wrong in this regard.

[OctaviaALaDJ 0]

The animations are great and pinkie too!!!

[Eenohay 318]

Indeed. Especially his overall demenor. He struck me as someone resigned to his fate, that he would never find the happiness he so deserved. He was angry and bitter, and thus there was no chance of Pinkie winning him over without lucking out.

 

 

Indeed I did, here:

http://mlpforums.com...post__p__114683

 

 

I've said as much in posts of my own, including my analysis. (It's in the Pinkie Pie fanclub thread, in the first post.) To paraphrase: her Pinkie Sense basically gives her an intuition beyond almost anypony else with the possible exception of the Princesses. She can still be obvlious at times, such as when she failed to notice Cranky's obvious discomfort at her actions in regards to his hair, but she's definitely an intelligent mare. After all, she built that Griffon Chaser copter thingie in Griffon the Brush Off in MINUTES.

 

That said, she still lucked out, I think. If Matilda didn't live in Ponyville, all she would have accomplished was one final smack in the face for poor Cranky, a ruining of his peace and quiet. I could easily see an alternate ending to this episode where she fails to make amends and he seeks some kind of vengeance...

 

Im not gonna call Pinkie stupid or anything, but this whole "Pinkie is a genius" thing really bothers me. She's not. She's just a normal pony. You people coming to that conclusion must have been something like this: "Everybody thinks Pinky's a retard, so I will prove them wrong and say she's a genius".

 

She's not dumb, but she isn't a genius either. Who the hell said she even built her copter thingy? And even if she did, who the hell said that it happened in minutes?! It might just have been something she bought, and used in that occasion! It's a cartoon, remember? Crazy things do pop up out of nowhere.

 

I must admit that she was observant enough to realize the connection between the two donkeys, but it's also not like we've seen much donkey's around either, have we?

[Feather Spiral 1,892]

Also, what a Jackass...

That ass made Pinkie cry...he shall pay for his crimes O:<

He was obviously upset, and from his POV, Pinkie pretty much invaded his personal space.

Actually, I'll quote other posts that are way better worded than mine.

But they made Cranky sympathetic in that you could easily envision an older person who has encountered heartbreak wanting to genuinely be left alone. I never felt as though Cranky was mean for the sake of being mean, and I'm glad the writers avoided such a temptation. He reminded us that Pinkie's antics could easily drive somepony up the wall. I admit to cringing and letting out an audible (though humored) moan when Pinkie set Cranky's book on fire by accident.

I could really feel for poor Cranky, because here Pinkie went a little too far, especially when she was shouting to everyone about his toupee. Her heart was in the right place, and I realize she didn't fully understand she was upsetting him, but still...come on, Pinkie, pay more attention.

Not saying Pinkie is a careless prick, she just sometimes lets her hyperactivity get in the way of her respect.

 

 

But it does leave me confused over one thing, I understood Zebras and Donkeys were sentient, but cows seem intelligent but they live in a farm?

What thread was that, where someone said that all animals were intelligent, but ponies (and donkeys and mules) had risen above the other animals through magic (and contact telekinesis in particular)?

 

Those...MULES. BLECH, just saying the name makes me cringe! I'm glad nopony will ever again have to see one of those lesser individuals.

Hey, hey.

HEY. >=(

Remember how I mention my ELIT project now and then? It has 12 protagonists, and GUESS WHAT SPECIES ONE OF THEM IS. :3

Edited February 18, 2012 by Derpth Fader the Ponith

[Locke 1]

I know what I'm doing all day! Putting this on repeat! It was yet another adorable episode! I couldn't help but smile when I saw Derpy in the snowglobe. And Pinkie Pie is just so full of win! There isn't anyone or anything that CAN'T be Pinkie's friend!

[Queen Cassie 3,057]

Im not gonna call Pinkie stupid or anything, but this whole "Pinkie is a genius" thing really bothers me. She's not. She's just a normal pony. You people coming to that conclusion must have been something like this: "Everybody thinks Pinky's a retard, so I will prove them wrong and say she's a genius".

If you'll forgive my acerbic attitude: oh please. I came to the conclusion independently as a result of my own observations of her. I couldn't care less if others think she's "a retard" to use your words.

 

We constantly see her show intuitiveness beyond that of a normal pony. Her Pinkie Sense lends her an extra insight into almost everything. It's intelligence of a particular, almost savant-like variety. The fact that she's a hyperactive ball of energy doesn't make her an idiot. It has no impact on her intelligence at all.

She's not dumb, but she isn't a genius either. Who the hell said she even built her copter thingy? And even if she did, who the hell said that it happened in minutes?! It might just have been something she bought, and used in that occasion! It's a cartoon, remember? Crazy things do pop up out of nowhere.

 

Let's be honest with ourselves here. We have seen absolutely zero signs of this sort of technology in the series outside of this one instance, before or since. Whenever we do see aircraft, they're of the airship or balloon variety, rather than fixed wing craft like the auto-gyro she flew. If such a device were common enough that she could purchase it on her meager salary, we would have seen them more often. But we haven't, therefore until we have reason to believe otherwise, we should conclude it is unique.

 

The design, in particular its colorful candy-like appearance, strongly suggests she built it, rather than having it constructed for her by somepony else. The "in minutes" declaration may be a bit hasty, true, but the way in which the episode flows suggests it is correct. And while you might be right about it potentially being a cartoon type of nonsensical device from nowhere...the show almost never does that sort of thing. Any device that appears on the show generally has a clear purpose and at least a semi-clear origin. In particular, this one was crucial to the flow of the plot, because it was required for her to continue to speak to Gilda and Rainbow Dash.

I must admit that she was observant enough to realize the connection between the two donkeys, but it's also not like we've seen much donkey's around either, have we?

 

No, but that's really beside the point. If these had been two ponies instead of two donkeys, I believe that events would still have concluded the same way, because the key elements: her powers of observation, her knowledge of everypony in Ponyville, and her memory for details that she's spotted, would have remained the same.

[Champion RD92 8,658]

So I just saw the episode and I enjoyed the smile song. Seeing Rainbow Dash reading Daring Do was pretty cool too. This is probably my favorite Pinkie Pie episode besides Party of One. I honestly didn't care for that babysitting episode.

[Yellow Diamond 7,568]

Well, I wouldn't quite be so quick to state that, if only because there are just as many studies showing a correlation between intelligence and aloofness or introverted behavior. As well as studies that show a correlation between compassion and intelligence. Still, Pinkie is clearly intelligent in the inituitve sense at the very least...I don't quite think she'd be as book smart, so to speak, as Twilight, but she'd be able to approach things from a different way and still get great results. Or, in other words, she'd probably not be very good at taking tests, but you ask her to build some new device for you and she'd be able to do it lickity split.

 

As for a Xanatos Gambit...well, I'm not quite so sure about that either, but only because Pinkie strikes me as so hyperactive and full of energy that it would be a little difficult for her to plan such a thing in advance. Not that she couldn't, but that it would be harder because she'd have to stay focused for longer, something she might find extremely difficult.

 

On the other hand, we have seen her zone in on goals in the past that she refuses to let go of once they're in her sight, so I could be completely wrong in this regard.

 

That was perhaps a bit too much of a general statement on my part. From what I understand of the map my friend graphed out, there are studies which do support a correlation between intelligence and social skills. I'm sure it's far from unanimous, which is a provision I meant to add. But Pinkie is aloof in her own right, e.g., her apparent obliviousness to Cranky's increased discomfort; often bouncing from one project to the next without much consideration. She can also being single-minded, as you said, and latch onto a particular project with zeal. In short, if Pinkie is interested in a task, she will do everything within her power to complete it with an eye toward totally satisfying the goal. It makes her frighteningly effective but also prone to missing the obvious or ignoring ponies around her.

 

I'm sure there is a psychological distinction between what we might call intuitive intelligence and strategic intelligence. The biggest difference appears to fall between application and synthesis. Pinkie can apply her knowledge to make gadgets, throw parties, and remember facts about her friends; Twilight could summarize complex ideas and concepts while utilizing them as reference in her own life. Unfortunately for Twilight, she often lacks the social finesse to apply them effectively (i.e., trying to do everything by the book). She is eloquent and well-spoken, though, which is likely a testament to Celestia selecting Twilight as her main pupil.

 

Pinkie might not bother with an exam if it didn't seem to be important to her immediate reference; if she had reason to pass it, then she would put all her energies into doing so. She might not do well, but she would try her damnedest. Another perspective is Pinkie may not understand all the formulas required for building a flying contraption, yet she understands intuitively, as you mentioned, how the system operates. If Twilight can understand the nitty gritty details and explain how they all serve toward the same end, Pinkie can operate the whole construct like a charm. Just don't ask her to explain the physics of it, because she will probably give you a literal song and dance explanation.

 

As for the Xanatos Gambit: Pinkie isn't Batman, planning each movement with precision. But she intuitively---whether knowingly or not---created a situation where she was guaranteed to succeed. Gilda would have played into the plan whether she learned to chill out, became furious with everyone (as she did), or no showed her own party. Pinkie wins. Exactly as planned.

Edited February 18, 2012 by Thereisnospoon303

[Tupin86 195]

This is definitely one of my favorite episodes now, Pinkie Pie never disappoints. Smile, Smile, Smile was awesome, as were all of the other times she broke out into song. Seeing Derpy in the snowglobe and the confetti cannon made me laugh.

 

A good episode, all around. I didn't expect Cranky to actually come around though, but if anypony could have found his lost love, it would be her...

[Key Gear 6,663]

I don't quite think she'd be as book smart, so to speak, as Twilight, but she'd be able to approach things from a different way and still get great results. Or, in other words, she'd probably not be very good at taking tests, but you ask her to build some new device for you and she'd be able to do it lickity split.

I think that you are right. Twilight is smart, but Pinkie seems to have a higher "intuitive intelligence". Which is to say that her "irrational" thinking may give her the ability to function on a higher level plane of thought than others with more rational thinking methods.

 

As for a Xanatos Gambit...well, I'm not quite so sure about that either, but only because Pinkie strikes me as so hyperactive and full of energy that it would be a little difficult for her to plan such a thing in advance. Not that she couldn't, but that it would be harder because she'd have to stay focused for longer, something she might find extremely difficult.

If we accept the assumption that Pinkie Pie has a high intuitive intelligence, then it may not be the case that she consciously planned the Xanatos Gambit. Instead, it may be that she set out with a general objective in mind and, guided by intuition, took the steps to achieve this objective.

 

This may sound kind of crazy, but it is not unheard of that you can solve a complex problem without "thinking" or "planning" in the conventional senses of the words.

[Eenohay 318]

If you'll forgive my acerbic attitude: oh please. I came to the conclusion independently as a result of my own observations of her. I couldn't care less if others think she's "a retard" to use your words.

 

We constantly see her show intuitiveness beyond that of a normal pony. Her Pinkie Sense lends her an extra insight into almost everything. It's intelligence of a particular, almost savant-like variety. The fact that she's a hyperactive ball of energy doesn't make her an idiot. It has no impact on her intelligence at all.

 

Let's be honest with ourselves here. We have seen absolutely zero signs of this sort of technology in the series outside of this one instance, before or since. Whenever we do see aircraft, they're of the airship or balloon variety, rather than fixed wing craft like the auto-gyro she flew. If such a device were common enough that she could purchase it on her meager salary, we would have seen them more often. But we haven't, therefore until we have reason to believe otherwise, we should conclude it is unique.

 

The design, in particular its colorful candy-like appearance, strongly suggests she built it, rather than having it constructed for her by somepony else. The "in minutes" declaration may be a bit hasty, true, but the way in which the episode flows suggests it is correct. And while you might be right about it potentially being a cartoon type of nonsensical device from nowhere...the show almost never does that sort of thing. Any device that appears on the show generally has a clear purpose and at least a semi-clear origin. In particular, this one was crucial to the flow of the plot, because it was required for her to continue to speak to Gilda and Rainbow Dash.

 

No, but that's really beside the point. If these had been two ponies instead of two donkeys, I believe that events would still have concluded the same way, because the key elements: her powers of observation, her knowledge of everypony in Ponyville, and her memory for details that she's spotted, would have remained the same.

 

The whole thing is based on assumptions. Now, it's obvious she did not build that thing in minutes, that would be impossible, specially since it's actually just seconds that happen from the time she falls to the time she comes up again. It might be hers, but there's no proof of that. If it looks like something pinkie would have, she could just have decorated. Maybe she didnt buy it in a store, but she could have gotten somepony else to build it for her. And besides all of that, the show doesnt really care about that, they needed a crazy machine for pinkie to fly in, and they gave it to her, they never implied that Pinkie was a mechanical expert, nor they wanted to do so.

 

Same thing for the donkeys. Maybe she could also have done the same with normal ponies, maybe she couldn't, it doesn't say. It's clear she has a great memory, seeing she knows everypony's birthday, so you'd expect that she infact could, but that doesn't mean she's a genius or super smart, it just mean she has a great memory!

[Skullbuster 1,906]

just got done watching it

 

smile smile smile is probably the longest song

 

the scene in pinkies mind caught me off gaurd with the fabric stuff

 

i actually felf sad for cranky when his book burned and when he was called out for being bald

 

i like the continuity with rainbow on the stairs reading a daring do book

 

derpy in the snow globe FTW

[Queen Cassie 3,057]

Thereisnospoon, Hal9000: Both of you have made excellent points. I can't think of much more to say on the subject other than that I agree with your general viewpoints.

Edited February 18, 2012 by Kyronea

[Tupin86 195]

Oh, and I loved the scene done completely in felt. That was pretty interesting, combining the two animation styles.

[Key Gear 6,663]

Im not gonna call Pinkie stupid or anything, but this whole "Pinkie is a genius" thing really bothers me. She's not. She's just a normal pony. You people coming to that conclusion must have been something like this: "Everybody thinks Pinky's a retard, so I will prove them wrong and say she's a genius".

Umm, no, I don't think that people are saying that Pinkie is a genius just to be contrarian. Even outside of this thread, I have read some very long, detailed posts where people talk about their reasons for saying that Pinkie is smarter than she may appear to be.

 

She's not dumb, but she isn't a genius either. Who the hell said she even built her copter thingy? And even if she did, who the hell said that it happened in minutes?! It might just have been something she bought, and used in that occasion! It's a cartoon, remember? Crazy things do pop up out of nowhere.

Well, yeah. It is a cartoon, but sometimes it's just really fun to overanalyze these kind of things.

 

As far as it being something that she bought... I dunno... Take a look at the attached image... That device just screams Pinkie Pie to me.

[Queen Cassie 3,057]

The whole thing is based on assumptions. Now, it's obvious she did not build that thing in minutes, that would be impossible, specially since it's actually just seconds that happen from the time she falls to the time she comes up again. It might be hers, but there's no proof of that. If it looks like something pinkie would have, she could just have decorated. Maybe she didnt buy it in a store, but she could have gotten somepony else to build it for her. And besides all of that, the show doesnt really care about that, they needed a crazy machine for pinkie to fly in, and they gave it to her, they never implied that Pinkie was a mechanical expert, nor they wanted to do so.

Of course it's based on assumptions. That's the nature of supposition, which is what both you and I are doing. It's certainly possible that she didn't build it, just as it's possible she did build it. I prefer to interpret it as that she did build it, because otherwise the autogyro lacks an appropriate explanation at all as to where it came from, and would seem like a ludicrous non-sequiter otherwise.

 

Mind, I also tend to view other similarly physics breaking events, such as the various times when she follows ponies around at impossible speeds, including in this episode where she chased Cranky, as metaphorical rather than literal. We could interpret the autogyro in the same manner, as a metaphor for her desire to continue speaking to Gilda and Dash, and her ingenuity in coming up with an appropriate solution to do so.

Same thing for the donkeys. Maybe she could also have done the same with normal ponies, maybe she couldn't, it doesn't say. It's clear she has a great memory, seeing she knows everypony's birthday, so you'd expect that she infact could, but that doesn't mean she's a genius or super smart, it just mean she has a great memory!

 

True, having a good memory doesn't make someone a genius. It can be a beneficial tool though.

 

You still haven't addressed the point sufficiently nor have you addressed the main point, that being that it is her Pinkie Sense that grants her this intuition in the first place, intuition she has displayed on numerous occasions time and again in plenty of episodes far beyond the ones we've already discussed.

[Key Gear 6,663]

It's clear she has a great memory, seeing she knows everypony's birthday, so you'd expect that she infact could, but that doesn't mean she's a genius or super smart, it just mean she has a great memory!

 

Actually, having a great memory is strongly correlated with being highly intelligent. Of course correlation does not imply causation, but there is fairly strong evidence that memory and intelligence are linked via the way the brain functions.

 

Here, take a look at some of these links (don't worry, no tedious academic papers):

 

http://www.quora.com...ence-correlated

 

http://www.aboutinte...nce-memory.html

 

http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2502140

 

(Edited because I forgot a link.)

Edited February 18, 2012 by HAL 9000