S02:E19 - Putting Your Hoof Down

[SailorCardKnight 84]

When Fluttershy commented on how she was a monster, this went though my head.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tiv1UP-oHvs

 

Yes, I watch way too much Arrested Development.

 

That said, i'm surprised at just how dark this episode was, and even kinda different, compared to normal. Fluttershy kinda freaked me out a little too, but no wear near as much as Pinkie and Twilight (especially Twi, sweet Jesus was she terrifying!)

Edited March 5, 2012 by SailorCardKnight

[Akemi Homura 7,680]

Acting like a jerk...that describes pretty much the behavior of everyone in just about every episode that Merriweather Williams writes. In Mysterious Mare Do Well the Mane Six all act like total jerks towards Rainbow Dash. Hearth's Warming Eve masked their jerk behavior with the play characters but it was clearly present. And again here.

 

You are definitely right that we should be keeping the character traits demonstrated in this episode in mind when viewing future episodes. Whether or not I enjoyed it all that much, it is a part of canon, just like every episode before it, and it's definitely going to provide some interesting fuel for my psychological analysis revisions.

 

Rainbow kind of had it coming, though. By gloating and showboating, people began to lose respect for her (as a pro sports fan, I know this all too well with players being arrogant and such, and subsequently losing fans). Like when she was "milking" her talents, I also began to grow tired of her actions.

 

The only thing I'm worried about is the character consistency in later episodes. If they start mashing up negative traits to begin with and then going for lighthearted episodes after, a lot of people could start to view this as a bad thing. Then again, the producers want this show to relate to our lives, which can hint at the fact that everyone's personalities in the real world aren't consistent either, so to speak.

 

On a final note, the transition from Pinkie's heart warming "A Friend in Deed" episode to the more darker "Putting your Hoof Down" episode was very good, based on the fact that since the producers try to match the show to the real world, and not present Equestria as always good natured, and also because of the fact that in the real world, every day is a different day.

[hwrogers 168]

....

That makes it harder to respond to you, you know, since I'll have to copy and paste manually. Ahem.

....

 

 

yeah, sorry about that, i'm used to forums which allow quotes to be 3 deep lol. we seem to understand each other's perspectives as expressed thus far, so i'll move along then. in terms of the amount of references i could understand them being seen as excessive (and agree to a point that they are) however references used as they have been in "a friend in deed" "mysterious mare do well" and in "putting your hoof down" among others are a practical way to ensure a larger audience can enjoy a show initially targeted at such a small demographic as 8-12 females, worked for looney toons, still does. as for the strength of this episode vs "a friend in deed" i think this is the stronger episode, in that it had much greater progression of plot in regards to character developement, even if it didn't have a catchy song, but that is personal opinion at that level so not really a succesful topic for debate.

[Queen Cassie 3,057]

Rainbow kind of had it coming, though. By gloating and showboating, people began to lose respect for her (as a pro sports fan, I know this all too well with players being arrogant and such, and subsequently losing fans). Like when she was "milking" her talents, I also began to grow tired of her actions.

 

The only thing I'm worried about is the character consistency in later episodes. If they start mashing up negative traits to begin with and then going for lighthearted episodes after, a lot of people could start to view this as a bad thing. Then again, the producers want this show to relate to our lives, which can hint at the fact that everyone's personalities in the real world aren't consistent either, so to speak.

 

On a final note, the transition from Pinkie's heart warming "A Friend in Deed" episode to the more darker "Putting your Hoof Down" episode was very good, based on the fact that since the producers try to match the show to the real world, and not present Equestria as always good natured, and also because of the fact that in the real world, every day is a different day.

 

Oh, Dashie was definitely a jerk in that episode too, but that only supports my point. Merriweather Williams appears to thrive on inappropriately applied conflict...the conflict doesn't arise quite as organically as it could because Williams still doesn't have a handle on the characters themselves.

 

It's fine for them to be a little bit inconsistent at times, because you're right that in the real world we are deep, complex, and oftentimes hypocritical, failing to properly learn lessons time and again. But there's a little bit of a difference between how people act in the real world and the way that Williams has been treating the characters. In the real world, our hypocrisies and inconsistency still arises as a result of our personalities, as well as the environment around us and how others are acting. By comparison, Williams tends to exaggerate certain traits to greater heights than they should reach otherwise, such as how often Rarity employs her charm and the ways in which she does it.

 

Shifting tones between episodes isn't necessarily a bad thing though, I'll agree. Each episode builds on the last, and some days are good, while others are bad. The episodes should reflect that.

 

yeah, sorry about that, i'm used to forums which allow quotes to be 3 deep lol. we seem to understand each other's perspectives as expressed thus far, so i'll move along then. in terms of the amount of references i could understand them being seen as excessive (and agree to a point that they are) however references used as they have been in "a friend in deed" "mysterious mare do well" and in "putting your hoof down" among others are a practical way to ensure a larger audience can enjoy a show initially targeted at such a small demographic as 8-12 females, worked for looney toons, still does. as for the strength of this episode vs "a friend in deed" i think this is the stronger episode, in that it had much greater progression of plot in regards to character developement, even if it didn't have a catchy song, but that is personal opinion at that level so not really a succesful topic for debate.

 

As I said, I liked a lot of the references used in this episode, because they were generally used in a funny way. Using references like that isn't bad at all. I approve.

 

The problem is when the references are used in such a way that they become absurd or get in the way of the progression of the story. In this particular episode, as described before the focus on using the Duck Season/Rabbit Season gag the second time wasted what I felt could have been valuable time in the episode spent on something else.

 

This episode is not as good as A Friend In Deed, even if it does contain some character development, because even Fluttershy's behavior was a bit exaggerated, and she conveniently forgot the previous lessons she'd learned in regards to being assertive, particular her use of the Stare. Character development that comes as a result of events that shouldn't be happening in the way they are due to previous character development isn't really character development, but retreading old territory.

[Akemi Homura 7,680]

You are definitely right that we should be keeping the character traits demonstrated in this episode in mind when viewing future episodes. Whether or not I enjoyed it all that much, it is a part of canon, just like every episode before it, and it's definitely going to provide some interesting fuel for my psychological analysis revisions.

 

Another thing, in "Hurricane Fluttershy", an episode that's going to air 2 weeks from now, is going to have Fluttershy apparently taking up her newer assertiveness and putting it to the test. I have a feeling that episode's also going to have a similar atmosphere to this one.

[hwrogers 168]

....

 

This episode is not as good as A Friend In Deed, even if it does contain some character development, because even Fluttershy's behavior was a bit exaggerated, and she conveniently forgot the previous lessons she'd learned in regards to being assertive, particular her use of the Stare. Character development that comes as a result of events that shouldn't be happening in the way they are due to previous character development isn't really character development, but retreading old territory.

 

i still disagree, again this is a children's show primarily and exagerated examples of character flaws are often needed in order to demonstrate the need for a lack of extremism. also the "stare" has yet to be proven on ponies, only critters, which i agree should have been used on angel LONG ago, but if it had then we wouldn't have had this fine episode.

 

sometimes you will just have to overlook some imperfections in a show which happen purely because "the director said so" lol... since i realised this i have been far more accepting of imperfect tv shows, which even this is. [yes i'm flame retardant, and yes i do feel that this show is not perfect, as such debatability would obviously imply. it is still the best show i've seen on tv yet]

[Queen Cassie 3,057]

Another thing, in "Hurricane Fluttershy", an episode that's going to air 2 weeks from now, is going to have Fluttershy apparently taking up her newer assertiveness and putting it to the test. I have a feeling that episode's also going to have a similar atmosphere to this one.

 

I agree. If Hurricane Fluttershy is at least in part a follow up to this episode, it should at the very least make the episode even more interesting than the premise suggests it is. (Incidentally, Hurricane Fluttershy airs on March 24th, or almost three weeks from now.)

 

i still disagree, again this is a children's show primarily and exagerated examples of character flaws are often needed in order to demonstrate the need for a lack of extremism. also the "stare" has yet to be proven on ponies, only critters, which i agree should have been used on angel LONG ago, but if it had then we wouldn't have had this fine episode.

 

sometimes you will just have to overlook some imperfections in a show which happen purely because "the director said so" lol... since i realised this i have been far more accepting of imperfect tv shows, which even this is. [yes i'm flame retardant, and yes i do feel that this show is not perfect, as such debatability would obviously imply. it is still the best show i've seen on tv yet]

 

Then this will be a point where we agree to disagree, because I'm afraid I just can't have the same point of view on the show. It's a large part of why I don't watch all that much television to begin with. I like my entertainment to make me think and to stay consistent with itself. I don't like when huge contradictions are constantly made for the sake of the story, because that often means the story isn't worth seeing in the first place.

[hwrogers 168]

....

Then this will be a point where we agree to disagree, because I'm afraid I just can't have the same point of view on the show. It's a large part of why I don't watch all that much television to begin with. I like my entertainment to make me think and to stay consistent with itself. I don't like when huge contradictions are constantly made for the sake of the story, because that often means the story isn't worth seeing in the first place.

 

i actually don't watch that much tv either, and for similar reasons, however i do not feel that huge contradictions have been made, people inherently contradict themselves, so why shouldn't ponies be a little more human?

[83awsm 234]

I think this was another great episode from the writers and folks at DHX. It clearly displayed a central message while having Fluttershy enter into a central conflict and realize that there is balance needed in her assertiveness through the previous mistakes.

 

[Queen Cassie 3,057]

i actually don't watch that much tv either, and for similar reasons, however i do not feel that huge contradictions have been made, people inherently contradict themselves, so why shouldn't ponies be a little more human?

 

When I used the term contradictions, I was referring to plot holes as well as characterization mistakes and missteps. And I feel the characterization in this episode was, if anything, less human than the way the ponies have been acting in previous episodes, because of exaggerated character traits and so on.

[hwrogers 168]

exaggerated character traits were a large point of this episode, thus the clarity of the moral being a point of balance in being assertive and NOT overly assertive.

 

please do indicate the specific plot holes you imply.

 

note kyronea, critical thinking is moreso enforced and practiced through debates like this one be sure to have fun

[shnaw 12]

This ep acctualy kind of bothered me.. I mean it was great and all don't get me wrong, I thoroughly enjoyed watching it, but seeing so many ponies... act as jerks kinda defeats the overall image of love, caring and tolerance. Now if it took place in Canterlot that'd make all the sense.

[Marcusaralius76 150]

As you subsequently highlight, Rarity utilizes her charm in order to effect a beneficial situation for herself---however, it either backfires (to illustrate a point, such as when her vanity was rampant in "Sonic Rainboom") or to foil an antagonist, such as the Diamond Dogs. One would think Rarity learned from the first season, and more recently in "Sweet and Elite", that her ability to manipulate is a tool of last resort. Her character should probably be shifting as a result of those lessons. The usage of her charm was almost a token showing; a represenation of her ability to get what she wants. It was more rude than clever, and serves more as a disservice to Rarity's principle development.

I think Rarity's display was more to show Fluttershy how to be more assertive rather than to show off her own abilities. And as with the moral of this episode, it seems to me that "Sweet and Elite" was more about going too far with such acts. She CAN manipulate people without dropping out of development, but not to the point where she takes advantage of every opportunity.

[Dany Heatley 160]

I love how the lessons are getting weaker and weaker in season 2, especially in recent episodes. Season 1 actually had real world lessons you could learn; but now what is happening in the episode doesn't really have anything to do with the lesson

[Dashell 8]

How does the lesson "stand up for yourself" have nothing to do with Fluttershy learning to stand up for herself?

[Eenohay 318]

Watching the episode, I got the feeling that Fluttershy has been building up a lot of anger for a long, long time. Not only is she angry about how she's treated, but she's also angry about how the rest of her friends get more respect than she does. Listening to her diatribe towards Rarity and Pinkie, I suspect she was airing out exactly how she feels about their careers compared to her own. Fluttershy cares for animals, possibly running an animal shelter, pet adoptions, does other things along those lines...she performs a crucial service for Ponyville, especially in the world of Equestria where everything is much more controlled by the ponies than it would be by humans in our reality. Yet does she get the respect she deserves? No! She doesn't! But look at Pinkie and Rarity, whose pursuits are arguably less valuable to the community. While I would argue that for Rarity much more than Pinkie when it comes to an objective perspective on the situation, since Rarity merely provides luxury goods while Pinkie helps with the morale of the town, from Fluttershy's perspective they barely contribute at all, and yet they're loved for it. She's jealous and hurt by the amount of respect they get, and she was finally able to let it all out. That said, I was still horrified by her entire speech. As others have pointed out both in this thread and others, that speech was far more harsh and insulting than anything heard on the show before. Which is a good thing. It's good because it was from the heart, Fluttershy's real feelings finally made clear. It's an insight into her psyche that was dearly needed.

 

 

 

Oh, I couldn't agree witht his more, I haven't thought of it before but now it's very very clear. I've felt like giving similar rants at quite some points of my life. (Although that doesn't mean that neither me nor fluttershy actually deserve to treat anyone like that)

 

But about Angel, I have to say that there is simply no other way he could be, and I totally love the way they did his character. He's perfect.

 

First we must say that he is smarter than any other animal Fluttershy has, otherwise he wouldn't act like he does or be Fluttershy's apparent favorite pet. I believe that it is Angel the one who sticks with Fluttershy, rather than her being the one who picked him, as I really can't see her choosing favorites, but since Angel is smarter than any other animal he learned the benefits he could get by being closer to her. Now Angel becomes Fluttershy's son. She clearly acts like a mother, and her, being as weak as she is, totally spoils him. Any kid with a mother like that will end up being like Angel, thinking they deserve and can get anything they want, even if it takes abusing their mother. Fluttershy claims so little respect that Angel simply assumes that no matter what he does she'll always be there. Note that this isn't a concious thing, he doesn't really want to hurt Fluttershy, he just believes he isn't doing anything bad to him. This not rare at all, in any kind of relation there's a member who gives in more than the other, sometimes this is in such a disproportionate way that it comes to physical abuse, like in this kind, but there's always a member who gets more from the relation, and chances are they don't realize at all that they might be hurting the other person.

 

TL;DR Angel is just as he has to be, and I'm absolutely glad they didn't decide to make him a lovely cutesy bunny (To be honest, not even well cared pets are like that)

 

And another thing Kyronea, this over analizing of yours has got me to actually start disliking this episode, wich I originally liked! You see, you are right about character inconsistensy. I totally noticed it with Pinkie Pie, in the last episode she was friends with everypony and did anything she could to make other ponies happy, even if she didn't always do it right, she always had good intentions. However, in this episode she doesn't even seem to have any relation with the shop owners, it felt like if they were in some sort of city, or that those came from a different place, because she really did not follow her own phylosophy of wanting to make other ponies smile. Sure, she was helping one of her closer friends, but she still claims to be friends with everypony and being Pinkie Pie it's only natural that she should have tried a much nicer way to get the tomatoes for just one bit. Afterall, who wouldn't want to do a little thing for good ol' pinkie pie? It just doesn't make sense.

 

That sucks, now I realize what's wrong with this episode and dislike it. I know you've been told that over analizing things isn't always very good, Kyronea, and I second that

Edited March 6, 2012 by Eenohay

[hwrogers 168]

interesting thoughts on pinkie's behaviour, but remember what she learned in the last episode, invading personal space and being insanely hyperactive is often annoying to others, with that in mind i will say though that i do think she was a tad out of character, but not as much considering the previous lesson she had learned.

 

another thought come to mind as well, with pinkie in full gear they would have had to cut a lot of her screen time from this episode to prevent it shifting towards her, with her slightly more mellow and less bubbly she was able to provide the needed elements to the episode without dominating it.

[Yellow Diamond 7,564]

Good questions all around. If Pinkie is friends with everypony in Ponyville, why didn't she simply make a kind request of the shop owner? The trickery she unleashed was more appropriate for dealing with an out-of-town antagonist like Gilda---who she tried to befriend anyway!---than a legitimate businesspony.

[hwrogers 168]

given that the price for the tomatoes doubled in one week, i'd call the merchant shady, especially given that we know equestrian weather is controlled. also i'd think the bazaar type market with tents for merchant stalls would indicate that the merchants travel, thus non local.

[Mister Jack 565]

20 bits for a cherry? And people say the market should be unregulated.

[Yellow Diamond 7,564]

20 bits for a cherry? And people say the market should be unregulated.

 

My Little Pony: Deregulation is Magic.

[SBaby 660]

Step 1 to killing off characters: Turn them into righteous pricks.

 

I hope this is just a one-time deal, because if it isn't, this might be a sign of really bad times ahead.

 

Don't get me wrong. I like to see different sides of characters. But I think they went a little overboard here. I think the Doctor's been messing with the timeline again.

Edited March 6, 2012 by SBaby

[hwrogers 168]

20 bits for a cherry? And people say the market should be unregulated.

 

or a sign of horribly bad business practices along with a failed attempt at exploitation of need. as he then sold the cherry for 2 bits to another customer rather than waiting for FS to haggle from the much higher price i'd say stupidity + exploitation.

[Eenohay 318]

given that the price for the tomatoes doubled in one week, i'd call the merchant shady, especially given that we know equestrian weather is controlled. also i'd think the bazaar type market with tents for merchant stalls would indicate that the merchants travel, thus non local.

 

Not really, because she was there last week selling tomatoes too

[ErBoi 498]

Well I thought the episode was great. Just one thing I want to ask because I've been unable to find the answer after searching Google, Wikipedia, the MLP Wiki and Behind the Voice Actors, and checking the credits on the episode in question; does anyone know who Iron Will was voiced by?

It sounds like Hercule/Mr. Satan from Dragon Ball Z, so I'm guessing Don Brown (as he was the voice in the Ocean dub and MLP uses plenty of Ocean Group voice actors) and I suppose there's also a possibility that it's Chris Rager (from the FUNimation dub).