Jan animations shut down by hasbro/C&D

[Princess Periwinkle 3,775]

While it is saddening to hear about that, at least they've found a way to get around it. This seems to be the future of top-of-the-line brony animators: Make animations that were inspired by the show but not animations of actual characters (Think Zachary Rich and True Tail.)

[FractalMoon 378]

This is a debate I like to stay away from because my reasoning may not make sense to others.

 

However, as long as the fan wasn't using their videos for personal profit without asking Hasbro, then their stuff shouldn't be taken down. The fan didn't do anything wrong. They are just expressing themselves in the fandom.

 

Some fans may even feel driven away because they know they can't make videos on things with MLP clips, characters, etc. they can't spread their creativity for very long until Hasbro sneaks up on them.

Not quite. Due to the way the law works, if someone points out a fan animation that approaches the quality grade of the official product, and Hasbro does nothing about it, they lose their copyright to the work. And as much as I tolerate the fan animations, I personally prefer having the availability of the official product at all.

well, technically speaking Mando is kinda an employee of Hasbro, his girlfriend (who is an animator on the show) got him a job in the transformers rescue bots thing, and i think he also does music for littlest petshop, plus im sure he has some friends in Hasbro, but still, hasbro isnt the evil entity people are making it out to be, they have a product and they have the right to defend it, and infact have to, also Hasbro is not a monopoly, a conglomerant, probably, but not a monopoly, hasbro does not own every cartoon out there

Not only do they have  a right to, under international copyright law (which is desperately in need of MAJOR reform) they have an obligation to defend it. If bronies think they're some unique race being persecuted for being different, I urge everyone to look at what happened to Crimson Echoes. 

[Adachi 772]

I don't care what he says. I care that this is fucking unfair and unnecessary. What, do I have to think that they were magnanimous by letting it live for a while before killing it?

Considering that Hasbro was in danger of losing their copyright, they had to do something.

[Metemponychosis 1,261]

Considering that Hasbro was in danger of losing their copyright, they had to do something.

Can someone explain to me how this actually works? Because you have a law that permits the original owner to lose his ownership of the IP because someone is doing something that is clearly fanwork AND the original owner is listed as being the actual owner of the source material?

[FractalMoon 378]

Can someone explain to me how this actually works? Because you have a law that permits the original owner to lose his ownership of the IP because someone is doing something that is clearly fanwork AND the original owner is listed as being the actual owner of the source material?

Yes actually. Due to the strange and somewhat magical way that copyright law works, as long as someone is making money off of something infringing (IE youtube partnership) and someone points this out, unless the holder sends a C&D order they lose their rights to IP. Saying "Hasbro owns this" doesn't actually absolve copyright, it's just a nice gesture.

[Castle Bleck 19,339]

That seems like you would be punishing YouTube more than Hasbro, because you would be creating a bunch of work for them in checking false reports.

 

Somewhat true, except Hasbro obviously gets some revenue from their YouTube videos, so it would undoubtedly inconvenience them too.

 

Of course, since Jan Animations isn't raising that much of a fuss...

Edited March 22, 2014 by Anti-Villain

[Adachi 772]

Can someone explain to me how this actually works? Because you have a law that permits the original owner to lose his ownership of the IP because someone is doing something that is clearly fanwork AND the original owner is listed as being the actual owner of the source material?

I'm not sure, I was just going off of what Hasbro said.

[Metemponychosis 1,261]

Yes actually. Due to the strange and somewhat magical way that copyright law works, as long as someone is making money off of something infringing (IE youtube partnership) and someone points this out, unless the holder sends a C&D order they lose their rights to IP. Saying "Hasbro owns this" doesn't actually absolve copyright, it's just a nice gesture.

Still sounds like "I have more money to throw at the judge than you".

How can someone lose ownership of something just because someone is copying it? Still sounds like bullshit to me.

[Adachi 772]

Yes actually. Due to the strange and somewhat magical way that copyright law works, as long as someone is making money off of something infringing (IE youtube partnership) and someone points this out, unless the holder sends a C&D order they lose their rights to IP. Saying "Hasbro owns this" doesn't actually absolve copyright, it's just a nice gesture.

What I don't get is why they sent a C&D to the Mane 6 Team, when their project (Fighting is Magic) wasn't making them any money. All the money they were getting was going towards charities.

[Dainbow Rash 80]

ill quote this from Mando " If they were going after fan-made works with malicious intent, they would have destroyed us all a long time ago. They want us to exist and they want us to produce content—we just can’t “compete” with them. JanAnimations, so far, has been the only artist in the community with the talent and ability to ACTUALLY compete with Pony and produce similar looking content. That’s probably why he was targeted."his its not that it was just fan content, it was fan content so well made that it rivaled the quality of the shot to the point it was almost mirroring it, thats another reason it got hit, he was using the style of the show, Hasbro in addition to having rights to characters also has rights to the style it was made in

But he wasn't "competing" with them. He got no money from the animations he produced and there were always disclaimers in the description.

[FractalMoon 378]

What I don't get is why they sent a C&D to the Mane 6 Team, when their project (Fighting is Magic) wasn't making them any money. All the money they were getting was going towards charities.

Still counts. The team was considered 'accepting funds' and thus in a violation of fair use. As much as I hate it myself, that's unfortunately how it works.

[Skullbuster 1,906]

But he wasn't "competing" with them. He got no money from the animations he produced and there were always disclaimers in the description.

but the thing was, he had the ability to, and hasbro had to do as much as some of them didnt want to

[Metemponychosis 1,261]

I'm not sure, I was just going off of what Hasbro said.

Yeah. I know. People can say a lot of things. What is frustrating me in all this all sounds like scare tactics. I understand that I don't know the law, but no one I ever talked about this seems to understand how this is supposed to work in a way that makes sense. It's like saying that there is a law that says you can steal from someone.

[Rarity Paige Belle 1,854]

You know, I've had enough of people defending Jan animations. They knowingly used a character from Hasbro without permission or paying royalties. In fact I think Hasbro should go further and sue the pants off them!

[Adachi 772]

Yeah. I know. People can say a lot of things. What is frustrating me in all this all sounds like scare tactics. I understand that I don't know the law, but no one I ever talked about this seems to understand how this is supposed to work in a way that makes sense. It's like saying that there is a law that says you can steal from someone.

Yeah, sometimes I wish they would just skip all the pretense and just be like China with no copyright laws. People would still support the original, because the original is always better than fakes, and companies could improve off the ideas that other companies made. Of course then again, everyone knows how typical chinese MMOs are, so maybe that's not a good idea afterall.

[MadScienceMC 14]

I really did enjoy a lot of Jan's work; and it's sad to see another great artist get the copyright axe.

So much for Button's Adventures 2

[Demirari 454]

When I read the title of the thread, I thought that there was possibly no way. And after delving in, yeah... damn it. I really wanted to watch more of Button's Adventure but now... not so possible. Oh well. 

[Skullbuster 1,906]

You know, I've had enough of people defending Jan animations. They knowingly used a character from Hasbro without permission or paying royalties. In fact I think Hasbro should go further and sue the pants off them!

i think thats a little too far, as Mando said, hasbro knew the animations existed for a long time and were impressed by them, they let it slide for as long as they could and did the minimum, by not forcing the videos down, but by asking that he remove them

[Metemponychosis 1,261]

 

 

Of course then again, everyone knows how typical chinese MMOs are, so maybe that's not a good idea afterall.

 

Well, I never had contact with them. Explain?

[FractalMoon 378]

Yeah, sometimes I wish they would just skip all the pretense and just be like China with no copyright laws. People would still support the original, because the original is always better than fakes, and companies could improve off the ideas that other companies made. Of course then again, everyone knows how typical chinese MMOs are, so maybe that's not a good idea afterall.

Yes, we should go with china's system of regulation. Let's censor dissenting opinions and squash creativity by eliminating all incentive for innovation by allowing everyone else to rip off what you develop. 

[Celestial Wish 349]

True, but here in the UK its much tougher to prove breach of copyright than the US, so I don't think Hasbro will be coming after me anytime soon

 

So just because of your location, you're basically saying to everyone else to man up and pay the bucks, while you free load? Not uh, that type of logic is what starts arguments like this. You're not only ignorant, you're downright ridiculous. 

You know, I've had enough of people defending Jan animations. They knowingly used a character from Hasbro without permission or paying royalties. In fact I think Hasbro should go further and sue the pants off them!

 

The reason why THE MAJORITY is defending Jan Animations because it posed NO THREAT whatsoever. Usually by common sense, when there is a riot and the MAJORITY have reasoning... it means the defending party is not in the right. Meaning... people who just think about money and copyright infringement and absolutely have NO DESIRE to support the fan-base. 

Edited March 22, 2014 by Celestial Wish

[CT-1138 3,182]

Awwww. I loved those videos! 

[Sholem Itzhak 84]

Well, as much as I like these independent MLP works of art, and while I do believe in adn promote the right of "fair use", we do have to understand that MLP and respective characters, props and images are the property of Hasbro, and anything Hasbro's stockholders (owners) want to do with their characters that that applicable law says they can do will be done.

 

I'm not saying we independent artists shouldn't turn to MLP for inspiration (in fact, I hope they continue to do so for years to come); but I think this should be a lession to all these independent artists that we should try to work with Hasbro (rather than keeping them out) when turning to MLP for inspiration in our works and projects (and "fair use" alone isn't enough to let us do everything we have planed). Yes, Hasbro will very likely ask for money in return, and yes they'll likely place limits of what we can do with their IP; but let's at least try to work with Hasbro and come to a reasonable and friendly agreement. Perhaps we can make a presentation and arrange to show it at Hasbro's next stockholder's meeting. We can fund our future works and projects using Kickstarter and indiegogo, or we can even try to receive funding from certain foundations.

 

I do like "Picture Perfect Pony", and I do hope something can be worked out in which the video can be shown again.

 

I'd also like to get myself one of these ties, and I'm certain a few select employes of Hasbro (and perhaps at least a couple of their stockholders) might want some of these as well: http://www.mylittleties.com/

[Adachi 772]

 

Well, I never had contact with them. Explain?

 

Chinese mmos are generic, because for the most part, they all copy each other. Same combat system, same auto navigation, same everything.

[Metemponychosis 1,261]

Chinese mmos are generic, because for the most part, they all copy each other. Same combat system, same auto navigation, same everything.

But I doubt that they are exactly they are exactly the same. Different themes? Different graphics? Different ideas, even if they all look the same?