One moral lesson I still need to see in the show...

[Scribblegroove 565]

One thing that I noticed about MLP is that besides all the illogical funny bulcrap, the plot, the character developments and all that stuff, they do a really good job at not only teaching certain morals, but also giving good examples of them, and having them return consistently in every episode. There's only one thing (most likely there are more, but this stands out to me the most) that goes in against this.

 

In every single episode, not only the mane 6 but nearly every other slightly developed character is one of the- or THE best at what they do. Always! This is something that frustrates me because I deal with the exact opposite IRL. No matter how hard I'll try, the chance that I become one of the- or THE best at what I am doing is so extremely small... And the mane 6 seem to be rolling easy with it!

 

Just think about it:

 

Twilight sparkle: a GODS BLOODY EQUAL when it comes to magic! I mean, we knew she was gifted from the start, but of all unicorns she is the absolute best at magic (and apparently also the best friendship because no one else can harness the magic of friendship but the mane 6)

 

Rainbow dash: it is LITERALLY stated that she is the best flyer in equestria. The only time she was actually challenged was in the wonderbolt academy, but eventually she was on top there as well...

 

Fluttershy: have you see anyone else connect to animals this well?

 

Rarity: I am not certain if rarity is THE best fashion designer, but she is definitely one of the best, since every time an episode pops up where she is judged by a major athority in the fashion world, they are flabbergasted.

 

Applejack: one of the most successful farms in all equestria, run by 4 ponies.............. Wat...

 

Pinkie pie: my heart almost made a jump with the introduction of cheese sandwich. Would they finally introduce the fact that you cannot always be the best at what you do? But NOPE, in the end it was some stupid moral about working together or something like that (I was so upset that I cannot even remember...)

 

The only real example I can think of is trixie, with twilight being better at magic 'n stuff, though she is probably one of the best phonies and fake magicians. A good hustler sort of speak...

 

Can you guys give some opinions on this? It gives the young girls that watch this show (because let's be honest here, they do) an illusional image that if you find your talent, you will become exceptionally good at it (with no apparent practice whatsoever, twilight being the only example of slowly advancing in her abilities). And it also frustrates me! AAH!

 

:c

 

Why.....

[Teller 360]

Watching average ponies doing average things wouldn't be entertaining.

 

Also striving to be the best is always a good time.

 

It's certainly better than striving to be average.

Edited March 27, 2014 by Teller

[Ribbonfree 2,383]

I think that's actually one of the strong points of the Cutie Mark Crusader episodes, actually. Here we see three girls who have some ability but aren't stand out, who are young and still growing and discovering themselves. They do have to struggle and constantly make mistakes in order to discover and grow into their talents and hobbies.

[ShadOBabe 18,984]

But NOPE, in the end it was some stupid moral about working together or something like that (I was so upset that I cannot even remember...)

 

You know there can be extra morals in the show that aren't explicitly stated.

 

Cheese IS better at throwing Parties than Pinkie. But "better" is also relative. If you think bigger and more complicated is "better", than yeah. But that wasn't the point. That was Pinkie's key episode. The point was for her to learn that the happiness of her friends meant more to her than being the best.

 

Besides I think a better lesson than "you can't always be the best" is "there is no such thing as 'the best'".

There's always a bigger fish.

Edited March 27, 2014 by ShadOBabe

[DryGuy84 (Inactive) 927]

You know there can be extra morals in the show that aren't explicitly stated.

 

Cheese IS better at throwing Parties that Pinkie. But "better" is also relative. If you think bigger and more complicated is "better", than yeah. But that wasn't the point. That was Pinkie's key episode. The point was for her to learn that the happiness of her friends meant more to her than being the best.

 

Besides I think a better lesson than "you can't always be the best" is "there is no such thing as 'the best'".

There's always a bigger fish.

 

This is what I would try to come into this topic and say, but it would probably be worded more poorly.....What I'm saying is this is a brilliant post.

[Shanks 10,811]

We did see a bit of this in Wonderbolt Academy with Lightning Dust outshining Rainbow Dash, granted she went a bit far with the recklessness and showed no remorse for her actions but that dosen't change the fact that she is an even better flier than Rainbow Dash even if that wasn't the main lesson of the episode. In For Whom the Sweetie Belle Tolls we saw Sweetie Belle lash out at Rarity because she felt like Rarity was overshadowing her and Luna to Sweetie Belle about her struggles dealing with her own feelings of being overshadowed by Celestia. Cheese Sandwhich albeit unintentionally overshadowed Pinkie Pie. I get what you are saying though, we are yet to really ever see any of them be so thoroughly outclassed as to have to really kick things into high gear to keep up with them. It is one of the main reasons why my OC is even more powerful than Twilight, he is meant to be somewhat of a foil to her. Not a villain to be conquered (he is really more of an anti hero) but more like a devils advocate to take her out of her comfort zone and make her think about and question things she never considered before. He is the outsider looking in, the guy who questions everything vs the loyal former student to princess Celestia who nearly always obeys and does almost everything by the book.

[Scribblegroove 565]

Watching average ponies doing average things wouldn't be entertaining.

 

Also striving to be the best is always a good time.

 

It's certainly better than striving to be average.

I'm not saying they should be average, or not striving for the best, but that eventually there will always be someone that is just as good or better than they are. That's how the world works. You simply cannot be 'the best' unless you are incredibly lucky, devoted and passionate.... And I cannot see rainbow dash making investments in her capacities as the worlds best flyer to justify that she IS the worlds best flyer. She should be practicing all day every day, or at least more frequent. But she can be found lazing on clouds nearly every day...

 

I'm not saying that she should be worse at flying, or should always be practicing when seen in the show, but simply that she can't be the best. Not like that...

 

 

You know there can be extra morals in the show that aren't explicitly stated.

 

Cheese IS better at throwing Parties that Pinkie. But "better" is also relative. If you think bigger and more complicated is "better", than yeah. But that wasn't the point. That was Pinkie's key episode. The point was for her to learn that the happiness of her friends meant more to her than being the best.

 

Besides I think a better lesson than "you can't always be the best" is "there is no such thing as 'the best'".

There's always a bigger fish.

You make a good point, and I agree with it mostly... But:

 

They might not be explocitly stated, but they still give some children (and some grownups, to my disappointment) a delusional view. You are right saying there can be more morals taken from that one episode, it wasn't obvious that any of the two was better (which is your point), but it wasn't clear that pinkie pie can learn something from people who might be better than you in the end.

 

And secondly, in the end, THERE IS such a thing as THE BEST... Or at least the top 2% of the world which you cannot rank correctly because they are all amazing... For instance: athletes. Usain bolt is the indefinite best at what he does. And the other athletes know and acknowledge this (some of them don't even really compete for gold anymore because of this) and they try to learn from what THE BEST does...

 

Another example: pianists (this is the situation I am in) you have a shitload of amazing and great pianists in the world because of the great music academies there are... But the very best of them simply cannot be beaten. You will always stand in the shadow of the greats, even if they are already dead. And the best you can do then is enjoy how good you are and how others appreciate you, and accept that you aren't the best and never will be... Learn from the masters and enjoy your own progression.

 

Still, I do agree to what you said to some point, and it clears up a few doubts I had and gave me some thinking food... Thanks :3

[Teller 360]

 

 

I'm not saying they should be average, or not striving for the best, but that eventually there will always be someone that is just as good or better than they are. That's how the world works. You simply cannot be 'the best' unless you are incredibly lucky, devoted and passionate.... And I cannot see rainbow dash making investments in her capacities as the worlds best flyer to justify that she IS the worlds best flyer. She should be practicing all day every day, or at least more frequent. But she can be found lazing on clouds nearly every day... I'm not saying that she should be worse at flying, or should always be practicing when seen in the show, but simply that she can't be the best. Not like that...

 

 

It hasn't really been proven that she actually is the best. She would already have been in the Wonderbolts if she actually were the best. Her boasts are just contributions to the cocky nature of her character.

[Scribblegroove 565]

We did see a bit of this in Wonderbolt Academy with Lightning Dust outshining Rainbow Dash, granted she went a bit far with the recklessness and showed no remorse for her actions but that dosen't change the fact that she is an even better flier than Rainbow Dash even if that wasn't the main lesson of the episode. In For Whom the Sweetie Belle Tolls we saw Sweetie Belle lash out at Rarity because she felt like Rarity was overshadowing her and Luna to Sweetie Belle about her struggles dealing with her own feelings of being overshadowed by Celestia. Cheese Sandwhich albeit unintentionally overshadowed Pinkie Pie. I get what you are saying though, we are yet to really ever see any of them be so thoroughly outclassed as to have to really kick things into high gear to keep up with them. It is one of the main reasons why my OC is even more powerful than Twilight, he is meant to be somewhat of a foil to her. Not a villain to be conquered (he is really more of an anti hero) but more like a devils advocate to take her out of her comfort zone and make her think about and question things she never considered before. He is the outsider looking in, the guy who questions everything vs the loyal former student to princess Celestia who nearly always obeys and does almost everything by the book.

REALLY!? Shit, I haven't seen that episode yet. I am going to watch it as soon as I can now!

 

But sweetie belle is still young. In the context of MLP I can see her becoming the best as well at something

 

I haven't seen the episode, but if Celestia can't dreamwalk, then Luna is just bitchin'... Who else can dreamwalk? Exactly, no one (no more spoilers about this episode plz)

 

It hasn't really been proven that she actually is the best. She would already have been in the Wonderbolts if she actually were the best. Her boasts are just contributions to the cocky nature of her character.

She is in the wonderbolts, and besides, no one else can pull off a sonic rainboom. That makes her the best at flying, since no one else has reached the speed required to do a sonic rainboom.

 

And I believe a few of the wonderbolts, and otherwise more than just a few characters beside Rainbow dash have said that she is the absolute best.

 

Let's just say she is within that top 2% I was talking about earlier...

Edited March 27, 2014 by Scribblegroove

[Teller 360]

 

 

She is in the wonderbolts, and besides, no one else can pull off a sonic rainboom. That makes her the best at flying, since no one else has reached the speed required to do a sonic rainboom. And I believe a few of the wonderbolts, and otherwise more than just a few characters beside Rainbow dash have said that she is the absolute best.

Not sure if that pin Spitfire gives her means that she's a member, but that's completely up for interpretation.

 

Also, could you give me an episode/comic number where a Wonderbolt claims Dash is the best?

[ShadOBabe 18,984]

 

 

She is in the wonderbolts, and besides, no one else can pull off a sonic rainboom. That makes her the best at flying, since no one else has reached the speed required to do a sonic rainboom.

 

No, Rainbow Dash is not in the Wonderbolts. She's a trainee.

And with their behavior in Rainbow Falls, it might turn out that Rainbow eventually isn't going to bother with them anymore. Your idols not being the perfect paragons you think they are is a good lesson too in my opinion.

 

And as for the Sonic Rainboom, I believe there WAS somepony we haven't heard of yet that could do it.

How else could it have been "an old mare's tail". Did someone just make it up and Rainbow spontaneously pulled it off? I don't think so. I think it was a great feat pulled off by somepony, but it was so long ago and their weren't any real records kept of it that it just turned into a myth.

[Scribblegroove 565]

Not sure if that pin Spitfire gives her means that she's a member, but that's completely up for interpretation.

 

Also, could you give me an episode/comic number where a Wonderbolt claims Dash is the best?

No :3

 

That wasn't a very legit argument. I am not sure at all... Rainbow falls perhaps?

 

But it doesn't matter. Like I said, if she is not THE best, she is one of the best. She can compare herself to members of the womderbolts. No one else gets that far... Usually. In a realistic world, which equestria is not :c

[CadetGrey 267]

[This post is hidden. No offense to anyone, but I am no longer part of the community and no longer wish to be an (active) part of the forums. I treasure the friendships I made along the way. Thank you!]

Edited March 28, 2021 by CadetGrey

[Scribblegroove 565]

No, Rainbow Dash is not in the Wonderbolts. She's a trainee.

And with their behavior in Rainbow Falls, it might turn out that Rainbow eventually isn't going to bother with them anymore. Your idols not being the perfect paragons you think they are is a good lesson too in my opinion.

 

And as for the Sonic Rainboom, I believe there WAS somepony we haven't heard of yet that could do it.

How else could it have been "an old mare's tail". Did someone just make it up and Rainbow spontaneously pulled it off? I don't think so. I think it was a great feat pulled off by somepony, but it was so long ago and their weren't any real records kept of it that it just turned into a myth.

Let's not turn this into a discussion if she's the best or not. She is one of the best, and clearly without very much effort in comparison to the real world... And I am stating that if she weren't the best, that would mean that she is seriously outclassed by the wonderbolts, which she is not. She is nearly as good as them if not equal to them...

I'd say the moral in Flight To The Finish was kind of a you-cannot-always-achieve-what-you-want one. Scootaloo really wants to fly and tries her best, but simply cannot do it. Or does that not work for you because she's but a child/filly?

Well, you are right to a certain extent, but we all know that her real talent is her scooter skill, which I've seen no other pony be as good at as her...

 

And yes, she is still young, and without a cutie mark that would imply that she can still become exceptional at something. Like I said, once a pony finds out his/her special talent, they seem to become one of the best at it eventually...

[CadetGrey 267]

 

 

On 2014-03-27 at 6:19 PM, Scribblegroove said:

Well, you are right to a certain extent, but we all know that her real talent is her scooter skill, which I've seen no other pony be as good at as her... And yes, she is still young, and without a cutie mark that would imply that she can still become exceptional at something. Like I said, once a pony finds out his/her special talent, they seem to become one of the best at it eventually...

 

[This post is hidden. No offense to anyone, but I am no longer part of the community and no longer wish to be an (active) part of the forums. I treasure the friendships I made along the way. Thank you!]

Edited March 28, 2021 by CadetGrey

[Meirno 550]

Well, the entertainment value has come from watching them develop their way to this point. Such as Twilight and Dashie becoming what they are. And even Rarity has improved her fashions from being a local in season 1 to now traveling Equestria and making outfits for super stars of the pony universe. 

 

It shows that you've still got to work for what you want.

[SomariFeyWright 776]

The thing is, though, everypony who was so great at these things built themselves up from scratch. They LEARNED to be good.

 

And yes, you can't always be the best, but that isn't what kids want to hear. That isn't what kids SHOULD hear. I'm not saying to tell them that they're likely not to be the best: That's something they learn naturally throughout their lives. But to show just how much it sucks to be number 2, even while trying to be number 1... what fun is that?

 

If you want to see an episode that says "You aren't the best and it sucks", go watch a post-movie episode of Spongebob Squarepants. Those will gladly beat down those pleasant and upbeat morals you grew up with, while at the same time being unfunny, and sucking.

[Wind Chaser 4,767]

I've had people tell me about that "putting your mind to it" kind of bull, and that these kind of messages of striving to be the best are okay to show the kids. I grew up on that and reality has hit me like the TGV.

 

I am as big a realist as they come. Excuse me for being crude, but this is a world that'll cut your frickin' balls off, throw 'em in the ocean, and make you go find them.

 

I'm a good example. I can't pursue my #1 career choice because of my geographic and socioeconomic situation, not my #2 because of my socioeconomic situation and a bleak outlook, and not my #3 because of age, thus a strong possibility I may end up with a career choice I don't particularly enjoy. I have literally had every dream I've ever had crushed in some way, and I've taken a liking to the name Wind Chaser and my Ecclesiastes 2:11 quote as it's indicative of how I see life. I really want to do better, but how can I?

 

One issue that did come out in the runup to "Magical Mystery Cure" was if anyone felt "left behind" by Twilight's ascension. I do agree with feeling a bit out-of-step with all 6 of the main characters because they are mostly confident and successful at their chosen field. You never see a George Bailey-type character who sacrificed his entire life's dream to save his community. Spike could actually be a good candidate but his loosely-defined characterization in the show omits this possibility. What if Spike actually wanted to do better than just be an assistant, but couldn't because there's no place for a dragon in Equestria?

 

Sure, the "always someone better" moral has come up, but the character only loses confidence over the course of one episode, to be restored better than normal at the end.

 

The Crusaders may not be successful yet, but they have implied innate talents and the confidence that can, may, and most decidedly will propel them to success in the future. They are also in a really good situation, having strong, supportive big sister figures and friendly townsfolk as mentors. What about the people like Christopher Langan, who had such a strong intellectual gift but was unable to share it with the world due to his struggles with being from a broken family and not having his gift recognized by society?

 

I like the idea that Equestria is more socially advanced than most modern human civilization, but not this utopic society where most ponies get along well and everyone knows their place and talent. There is the possibility of somepony whose special talent is not highly respected, causing him or her to fall on hard times. There could be the blank flank who has confidence issues or does not have the supportive people surrounding them as the Crusaders do, and thus gets forever stuck in the loop of "Is this really who I am?". I would rather the audience know that there are such people in this world, and that suffering and poverty are not always the result of a lack of effort on the individual.

 

I like the idea of having characters in more humble places, or possibly characters with issues such as a lack of confidence, motivation, or the absence of good role models in their lives. But, unfortunately, that's best left to fan works, as MLP is not intent to deal with those issues. MLP is not such a great innovator as we would like to think. Remember all the times they tried to do big "issue" episodes like bullying and racism? They didn't do it right because they really weren't meant to tackle these big issues. Writers on these kinds of shows are not used to it, and producers won't make it because of the fact that they just won't sell to the masses in today's hyper-commercialized media landscape. This kind of encouragement is what sells, people only want to see successful people (as in the rich, the famous, and those with otherwise exciting and fulfilling lives) as role models, not the everyman busting his ass 12 hours a day plus overtime as a public servant. We just have to accept that fact and move on.

Edited March 31, 2014 by WindChaserPegasus

[Scootalove 10,684]

That is only point that I see in the Cutie Mark Crusader episodes. For you to grow and learn what you want to do with your life, you must first make mistakes so that you can learn from them. They are still young and trying to accomplish what they want to do.

[Diva Pony 345]

I'm only halfway into season 3 and I think there are a few examples of the fact that these ponies are great with what they do but they aren't perfect.  And I think one of the main points of this show is to illustrate that no matter how great you are at something that you still need help (your friends) from time to time.

 

Forgive me for not being able to quote exact titles, but there is the episode where AppleJack is trying to do the harvest all by herself and can't pull it off, the Crystal Palace episode where Twilight knows she could get out of the situation of being trapped but doesn't have the time to figure it out so at the expense of possibly failing in Celestia's eyes she has Spike finish the job, Fluttershy might be ace with the animals but she has serious confidence issues.  I think they illustrate pretty well that being the best or near best of something doesn't make you infallible.

 

And I think that is one of the mane points they are trying to make.  I understand what you are saying about every pony being so freaking good at what they do but if you look closely, they illustrate a lot of faults too and they are ALL still working on what they do best.  They are NOT yet the best in the entire poniverse at what they do. 

 

Honestly, I always viewed Twilight as becoming one of the best but she will always be in Celestia's shadow.  She will always be a student and be learning.  She is only the best in Ponyville.   Pinkie Pie is great at throwing parties but I never felt anypony said she was the best of all, just that this is her strength.  Same with Rarity and Fluttershy.  Their strengths are very good but that doesn't mean they are the best.  Rainbow Dash as pointed out is still not a Wonderbolt.  I think she will be eventually, but she is growing into it.

[Adorkable 2,737]

Well, I mean, they've been kind of doing the opposite lately, you know?

 

To get their key and all.

 

I mean, Applejack told a lie, a lie.

 

The Element of Honesty told a lie.

 

But she learned from it in the end, isn't that what you're talking about?

[Silverwisp the Bard 2,353]

 

 

it is LITERALLY stated that she is the best flyer in equestria.

Uhm, where? We know that she's most likely the only pony capable of performing a sonic rainboom, but so what? It could simply mean that other pegasi would only create an ordinary sonic boom. We never get explicitly told she's the best.

 

 

Fluttershy: have you see anyone else connect to animals this well?

Again, no indication that there isn't a pony somewhere who's better. I'm pretty sure Equestria has zookeepers, veterinarians, dogbreeders....

 

 

Rarity: I am not certain if rarity is THE best fashion designer, but she is definitely one of the best, since every time an episode pops up where she is judged by a major athority in the fashion world, they are flabbergasted.

Yet, again, never explictly stated to be the best. She clearly isn't the sole dominating force on the market (no one in Canterlt seemed to know her in Sweet and Elite).

 

 

Applejack: one of the most successful farms in all equestria,

It has been stated that one bad cider season could wreck the business. And it has been established that reatives come into town to help with the harvest.

 

 

Pinkie pie: my heart almost made a jump with the introduction of cheese sandwich. Would they finally introduce the fact that you cannot always be the best at what you do? But NOPE

Atually, Cheese's party did outperform Pinkie's, hence her slouching off.

 

 

 

 

 

Can you guys give some opinions on this? It gives the young girls that watch this show (because let's be honest here, they do) an illusional image that if you find your talent, you will become exceptionally good at it (with no apparent practice whatsoever, twilight being the only example of slowly advancing in her abilities). And it also frustrates me! AAH!

Where did you get the idea that none of the practiced?

Every single on of the Mane Six has trained in their respective field ever since childhood.You do tend to get good at things after some fifteen years.

 

 

 

Can you guys give some opinions on this?

I think if you're getting so worked up about fictional characters succeeding, you should take a deep breath and consider if this is really about the ponies.

[Sunny Fox 5,932]

Uhm, where? We know that she's most likely the only pony capable of performing a sonic rainboom, but so what? It could simply mean that other pegasi would only create an ordinary sonic boom. We never get explicitly told she's the best.

 

 

Actually, in "Sonic Rainboom", Rarity says to Princess Celestia that Rainbow Dash really is the best flier in Equestria, and the Princess answered "I know she is, my dear." So, basically, God said so.

[Silverwisp the Bard 2,353]

 

 

Actually, in "Sonic Rainboom", Rarity says to Princess Celestia that Rainbow Dash really is the best flier in Equestria, and the Princess answered "I know she is, my dear." So, basically, God said so.

Well, it was a best young flier competition, otherwise the Wonderbolts would probably participate. And Sunbutt isn't exactly infallible...

[mars 4,861]

...i post on the wrong board...

Stil! I agree! it's a good lesson to learn.

Edited April 1, 2014 by Destiny