Nuke87654

You mean the pilot comic issue where Chrysalis kidnapped the CMC's? The one that published in 2012 which won't be another three years till the show gave the CMC's their cutie marks? If that's your big point in how it would contradict with the comics and show, that's not a good one. In the comics and FIM in general, they're not an au as it's apparent the comics are meant to fill in the same timeline as what the show's own takes place in hence why the show is canon a to the canon b. Because of this, both are canon and neither have to directly reference any of their stories as by Hasbro's view, they both happened and are in the same FIM timeline. I mean, Fractured made a good point for how it would be preferential to separate their stories from each other as Hasbro would not want to reference a story that is only exclusive to the comics that many in the audience are not going to immediately pick up on unless they're a comic reader. It is a bad form of writing to make such a point without devoting the episode's limited time explaining to the audience for what they're talking about and it would require the writer to read up on the comics lore, which unless you're a long devoted writer like say Amy Keating Rogers was, you're not going to bother learning much outside of the media you're writing for if you plan to stay for a short time. Or it could be the site's choice and not because the comics and show are in two different universes as you're saying.

Let me say is this, the op of this post never said that comics weren't allowed to be used to debate with. The comics are b canon as evidenced from what I posed and others have said so thus I can use them.

Contradictions you have yet to provide any evidence of. You want me to rely on your hearsay so I won't use a quote to prove my point? Again, Superman and Batman's context are different from Celestia and Luna, there's nothing in FIM lore to support it, and it's nothing but a fallacy. Meh, you really have no idea for what is called 'B canon' do you? Because the op never stated 'no comics allowed' and that Hasbro considers the comics canon, I'm allowed to use it whether you like it or not. As Fractured and I had said, DHX is under no obligation and in fact may be encouraged by Hasbro not to directly reference any comics story so as to not confuse or even annoy the audience with bringing in a story into an episode the show has nothing to do with. In fact, it's actually bad writing if you bring in something from another source without having it be given it's own explanation, which not only will buy up time in the limited 22 minute format, but it's far more preferable to a writer if they treat the comics as their own self contained portion of FIM's lore so they won't have to worry themselves of some details in the lore. You can bring up at how the show makes no direct reference to a comic's story, but the comics are considered 'b canon' by Hasbro and everyone else and thus they don't have to be included into the show's A canon to be considered to have happened in FIM's lore as Hasbro wishes. You're now throwing in red herring fallacies into your case as DC animated verse is considered to be in it's own separate universe compared to the DC comics, which is a completely different circumstance from FIM's canon situation.

No I understood, you're right that in fiction, there are characters where no matter how hard a person trains, they're not going to be able to beat them due to circumstances. You're problem is that you're taking a setting and it's characters and applying it's own contexts to FIM just so you can declare of how 'regardless of how hard Celestia trains, Luna is more powerful because she is.' It's nothing but an association fallacy because you're using the qualities of DC comics (Superman vs. Batman) as a crutch to justify this premise that Celestia is weaker than Luna no matter how hard she trains because Luna is stronger. You completely ignore how different contexts of it show it's not similar. Biggest reason why Superman is stronger than Batman is because he's a Kryptonian under a yellow sun, which allows him to get so strong. Batman is a low end superhuman being. A low end superhuman being <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< Yellow star powered Kryptonian. In FIM, what context is there to show Luna is stronger than Celestia? Nightmare Moon, which the comics went and explained as a result of her being possessed by a separate being that allowed a normal powered unicorn (Rarity) to beat a depowered Luna in a fight. Thus it provides a substantial power boost. There is nothing else to suggest that Luna is stronger because she somehow has this hidden power that she only uses if she gives in to rage. I mean the whole premise is illogical because how did Luna get such a power and her sister did not!? There is no proof or evidence of it other than a wishful headcanon because there is nothing to indicate as such while there's been plenty of evidence to suggest Celestia is stronger than Luna. Than when you compare other evidences where: Luna and Celestia are born Alicorn sisters. Celestia loved to fly and study magic no matter how hard and difficult. Luna hated to study magic if it was difficult and she preferred to have fun instead of work hard like Celestia like to do. Luna as Nightmare Moon is suddenly able to be more powerful than Celestia which required the usage of the Elements of Harmony to banish her to the moon. In an AU timeline, Nightmare Moon does the same to Celestia only without the use of the Elements of Harmony. Considering of just how powerful the elements of Harmony are, it provided a great power boost to Celestia that allowed her to beat Nightmare Moon. The fact that Nightmare Moon is just under that, that would mean the power boost Nightmare Moon achieved for Luna is beyond anything that even a studious Alicorn like Celestia can match. This premise that Luna held this hidden power all along is nothing but wishful thinking. It has no basis, it has no backing from the show or any media, it has no logical premise, and it goes directly against what Hasbro approved for the comics to do to explain more on Nightmare Moon. Also, that 'transformation' in Luna Eclipsed is nothing but an illusion she created because the whole idea 'it was only a partial transformation' doesn't make sense for how: Luna appears as Nightmare Moon in full view other than some false teeth she used. You're telling me that she only partially transformed when she looks almost exactly the same as Nightmare Moon? My point that it was an Illusion again prevails because she needed the false teeth as she couldn't get the razor teeth down and yet was able to don a near perfect cosplay of Nightmare Moon. Really, you have yet to provide anything to go against any of my points other than conjectures, fallacies, and personal beliefs with no backing from anything in FIM to indicate Luna is stronger than Celestia. I on the other hand have shown: A. A Direct quote from a major comic book artist that states that Hasbro, DHX's boss and the ones that ultimately approve of everything DHX and other licensed works does to FIM lore, considers the comics canon. B. A major show writer writing the Journal of the Two Sisters that shows of how Celestia had studied magic more than Luna, who hated to study if it were difficult, and how Celestia loved to fly to suggest if she is also a better flier than Luna. C. Luna preferred to have fun and not to study and work hard as much as Celestia. D. How the show has referenced OC's from the comics to imply as a reference and shout out to the comics. And that's not using more stuff from the comics like how: E. AU Celestia, unpowered by anything, one shotted AU Luna that knocked her out for several minutes. This is something that as Nightmare Moon she was only able to do it to Celestia for a minute or so. This means an uncharged Celestia magic laser does more damage to Luna than Nightmare Moon did to Celestia. F. Celestia has her own powered up form that she only used against her AU self. Unlike Luna, this was actually shown. Ironically, possibly the only evidence to suggest Luna has such a powered up form requires you to acknowledge Celestia has her own too so your point is moot regardless if you try to use this. G. Celestia was able to fend off Nightmare Moon's mind attacks and knock her out of her mind, which Nightmare Moon had heavy help from the denizens on the moon, and a plan to tire Celestia using her help, and even broke into a tired Celestia's mind. Meaning even using mind attacks, in a mind duel, a tired Celestia >>>>>>> Nightmare Moon with heavy help. Thus how can I simply approve of your case when your evidence is backed by nothing other than what point you can redirect it to for your own liking with really no direction other than to prove that your belief is correct? Mine is guided by the evidences presented in FIM's lore for which you deliberately omit because it does not suit you.

You're comparing a kryptonian being who are shown to be far stronger than your average human being under the yellow sun to two Alicorn princesses who are sisters. They're not the same as Luna and Celestia are both born Alicorns so there is no reason to expect a difference in power level if they're related unlike Superman being a kryptonian to the human batman. The difference shown is that Celestia worked harder to learn about magic compared to Luna. There is still no proof Luna has this untapped power potential simply because she has it without rhyme or reason compared to her studious sister. On a separate note, Superman is not this oped hero you think he is. He's not even the most powerful member in the Justice League as the Flash and Martian Manhunter are more powerful and that's just two I know. Finally your whole argument here is nothing but an Association fallacy. Than I'm sorry to see that nobody is going to change or be convinced of whatever argument is going to be presented here.

So a headcanon in otherwords. Contradictions that I have yet to see to rebuff my point on the Nightmare rarity arc other than pure conjectures. Andy's tweet sounded pretty certain considering who he was quoting as the one's who directly said to him of the comic's canon status. You're pretty much at this point just throwing one twisting conjecture onto another on whatever argument I present without anything to back up your case other than pure hearsay on your part. I actually am not a fan of the Nightmare rarity arc. However, just because I don't like it doesn't mean that I'm going to deny something that the the author (Hasbro) wishes it to be so I'm going to support it as it is what they want in their lore no matter how much I think it's crap. It's merely a point to add of how another media that can be considered in it's own separate storyline (EQG) is part of FIM canon considering they made a reference to one of it's characters (Flash Sentry) in the show itself. But by that logic of seeing Twilight in pony form, wouldn't that also hold true for the comics as they also hold our pony characters in there? No because there has been nothing to indicate that Luna has some sort of 'hidden power' in her that we've seen nothing about or even know why she gets it but not Celestia. Being duped by a being into accepting more power makes more sense when it is backed up by the canon's lore itself so no I'm correct in it's use. Unless you wish to argue of what evidence would support that Luna has some sort of hidden power in her, I don't see the validity in your claim. Why does Luna get such a large power increase but Celestia doesn't? Especially when Amy, a show writer, pretty much stated in her book that Celestia was better than Luna in magic, and how does Nightmare Moon get strong enough to banish Celestia to the Moon while she needed the elements of harmony to pull that feat off. You're telling me that despite Celestia busting her butt off trying to learn as much magic as she could while Luna, who hated to study hard, is somehow significantly more powerful than Celestia just because she's using the full might of her powers without restraint? Sorry, but I do not believe it is just that case as Nightmare Moon has to be on a power level well above Celestia, which the comics explain that Nightmare Moon can provide a significant power boost to whoever it possesses considering how an otherwise normal powered unicorn can suddenly handle a depowered Luna easily. You can pull the Jedi and Sith analogy, but even a sith would need to learn much of the force in order to compare to a jedi in powers. Not just fighting without restrain unlike a jedi, but actually put the work and effort to learn and master the force as much as they could for it doesn't matter how much restraints they removed when said Jedi is exceptionally more skilled and better able to command the force than they do.

Have you known the concept 'word of god'? Andy Price's quote is directly referencing Hasbro, the one's in charge of everything that goes into mlp fim, including what DHX puts into as they cannot put anything into the show without Hasbro's approval, as the ones who told him that the comics are canon to FIM, including the show. That 'hearsay' is irrefutable proof that whatever is put into the comics, unless the show directly contradicts it as comment states, is canon. This is the equivalent of you denying the word of what the author of a series says is canon because you do not want to count a part of the lore true as it's story wasn't directly referenced in the main series. Like I said, you can go around and refuse to believe it to be true, but Hasbro has the final say on what is canon or not as Andy Price mentioned without a hint of doubt in his tweet on who is the one who told him on what's canon or not. I call Occum's razor as your assertion that there was something inside Luna all along has nothing to back it up and it requires alot of assumptions on your part. My point that Nightmare Moon is a seperate being that took advantage of Luna's jealousy is backed by an officially licensed comic series from the author of FIM that considers the comics canon, regardless of how many times you relentlessy rant of how a direct quote is somehow meaningless hearsay. As for your contradictions and stuff, there's still one issue with that point, none of those contradictions go against what the comics say and as a result the arc is still canon. Unless you provide something that I cannot explain away as 'seperation of different medias confining their stories to their side of the same lore, your point is flimsy to hold. Finally, you still haven't explained of why the show referenced characters that exist from the comics and eqg.

Yep, that was where I found that info on the differences too.

An alternate universe needs to occur in the same universe as the original one and needs a canon event in said original universe to have altered. Parallel universe in the other hand is concurrent to the events of the original universe and not affected by anything that changed or happened in said universe. It would be the difference of saying how eqg verse wasn't affected by any of time travelling shenanigans that happened in the season 5 finale while we saw a bunch of alternate universes occuring in that episode.

Ask the comic book writer as it is a major flaw within the story for how none of them went after Nightmare Moon despite taking the perfect opportunity to try to stop her before hand. Also here's one other problem with your assertion, you think I actually like the comics? Heck no if it were up to me I'd remove it from canon too as I feel it is too much crap that muddles with FIM's lore and characters, but that quote of Hasbro considering the comics canon by a major comic book artist and how Amy went out of her way to write a story that characterizes as Celestia being stronger than her sister only leaves evidence to suggest that there has to be a separate entity that powered her up as there is no way Luna can be stronger than her sister on her own according to Amy Keating Rogers, a major show writer. As I had mentioned before, Hasbro's word over anything what we fans want and if a major comic book writer has the backing of them and there is nothing from the show or staff that directly contradicts this, than I'm sorry but that Nightmare Rarity arc is canon no matter how much we detest it. Coincidences that directly contradict your assertion that the comics and EQG not being canon despite having several characters that first appeared in their own media being referenced in the show? Tell me why did they referenced them than or even bothered doing it?

Negative emotions that were manipulated by an outside force in nightmare moon. Alright how about this angle, you want to know why an outside force actually makes the most sense? Because in the journal of the two sisters, written by amy keating rogers, a now former major show writer on DHX pretty much declared Celestia is the better of the two in magic as Luna hated to study anything that took an active effort for her to learn while Celestia not only studied her butt off to learn magic, but also frequently bantered with starswirl the bearded in such spells in it's use. This is further reinforced where Celestia loves to fly while Luna preferred doing fun things. All this suggests is : A. Celestia knows more about magic than Luna and thus would at least be much more versitle and more practiced. B. Celestia is likely a better flier too as she liked to fly around for fun, unlike Luna who seemed to prefer to do fun in general. C. Luna hated studying magic if it was hard to do and wouldn't seek it out if she could. Now here's another point here, in the show's season 5 finale, in nm au timeline, Nightmare Moon banished Celestia to the moon. This is something that Celestia can only do with the elements of harmony This would indicate that Nightmare Moon is stronger than Celestia. Now a problem here with the point that Nightmare Moon is Luna jealousy ridden and rage unbridled is this: A. How she is seemingly significantly stronger than Celestia when a book written by a major show writer stated that Celestia is stronger than Luna magic wise and Celestia was much more willing to study magic than Luna. B. How did Luna acquire the ability and power to banish Celestia to the moon if Celestia can only do that with the elements of harmony? Note using the 'she's connected to the moon' thing is countered by the logic that Celestia should've banished her to the sun. Thus, you can see why I support that Luna was possesed by a seperate entity as it is shown: A. Nightmare Moon possesed Rarity, a normal unicorn magic wise. Rarity recieved such a signifcant power boost that Nightmare Rarity was able to easily beat a depowered Luna. This would show there is a great power boost from such a possession. B. Said power boost and possesion can easily explain my previous points above as it would be the most feasible for how Luna got so much stronger than her much studier sister. Thus through the works of a major DHX writer and matching to the series itself, possesion by a seperate entity is the most logical choice as a Nightmare Moon caused by Luna's jealousy solely has much more holes to it and how it coincides with Luna and Celestia's characters presented and approved to do by Amy.

Which the show has no contradictions for Nightmare Moon to what the comics and others have stated.

So what do you think of Flash Sentry and Pony comic writers oc's being referenced in the show?

I would argue against Discord being more powerful than the Tree of Harmony as it took those seeds one thousand years to finally take effect, which took far longer than Discord had anticipated and this was without the Elements of Harmony to charge it's power so it was purely running on what reserves it had left to hold off something that can ruin Equestria for a thousand years without support. Once it had the Elements of Harmony in it's possession again, the tree easily removed the tentacle vines. If anything, it not only shows of just how much more powerful it is over Discord, but it has very impressive endurance as it held something back from wrecking Equestria without the Elements of Harmony to replenish it's power for a thousand years on it's own. P.S, as for your topic in question. You do have a fantastic point as it does seem that Alicorn magic is a naturally dark and inherently evil magic. It could explain why Celestia was so selective on who gets to be an Alicorn and placed such great importance on learning friendship to her students for the taste of Alicorn magic and it's power could corrupt them if they're not prepared to handle it.

So you're going to ignore how the head in charge of whatever DHX and IDW puts into FIM simply because it goes against what you believe in? As I said, hasbro's word holds priority over what a fan wishes it to be. Or it could be because the show is under no obligation to enlist the aid of a storyline the comics or the EQG movies have. This is done to ensure a cohesion in the story and not place too much pressure on the writers as they don't have to be concerned with also reading up on the comics or even watch the EQG movies. They only have to focus on what they can think and can be accepted in the show. It's a practice that is done by many series's to maintain an easier cohesion of canon such as Transformers where they have many canon media but choose to only limit themselves to what is available in their own media to maintain better control of what's in their own part of the lore. To answer your point on EQG not being referenced in FIM. Similar to the comic writers Oc's being referenced, the EQG character Flash Sentry was referenced in the episode Three's a Crowd in Season 4

My belief with how the mlp comics, especially the main ones can improve is: 1. Stop writing action adventure arcs until they get capable writers that can write such stories well. As far as I'm concerned, none of the folks at IDW's mlp team can write a good action adventure arc to save their life. Thus they should stop writing such stories until they have a reputable writer that can write such tales. 2. Get new people on their staff. Probably the biggest issue with IDW is that alot of the folks, especially the writers and Bobby Curnow seem to not give a crap about making quality stories and just want to churn out whatever for that pay check. Getting some new passaionate writers and an editor can go a long way to improvement. 3. Don't be afraid to write a simple slice of life story. As DQ mentioned, IDW seems to want to seperate itself from the rest of Fim series by being essentially that edgy sibling that wants to be cool so bad that they'll try rediculous things just to get attention but look terrible for it. It's a big reason why the Friends forever issues are of higher quality compared to the main issues as they typically are one shot slice of life tales. Sometimes, a customer just prefers a well made pb&j sandwich and not some rich lemon cake that turns out terrible in the end. 4. Don't involve characters that have no good reason to be there narrative wise. One big issue with alot of the main comics is they'll throw in characters like Twilight in the good, the bad, and the pony and the not villainous team in the seige of the crystal empire that only serve as one large anchor that weigh the story down as the writer tries to come up with some contrived point for their forced involvement in the story. Can you especially imagine how much better the good, the bad, and the pony could've been if Twilight had gone with Spike to that convention instead of with the remaining five? 5. Don't use the comics for a mouthpiece. While the show itself also isn't without it's share of it (I'm looking at you Dragon Quest and Bats!), the comics seem to have more zealous writers in this regard such as the Spike and Luna Friends Forever issue one or Ted's second equestria girls story where they seem more focused on a certain political topic than writing a good story. Series like FIM were meant as a form of escapism for it's audience so we can enjoy some cute colorful ponies. Bringing in allegories to real world issues only breaks that immersion and it can detract folks from being attached to the show's verse and find itself growing irate from this real world problem appearing in the series. 6. Be more consistent with characterization and especially be careful at what choices are made for narrative reason. In general, a big issue I have with IDW comics is that they have many good and interesting ideas involved, but are often executed poorly by horrendous choices being made as well as the estahblished characters like the mane 6 and the Alicorn princesses being struck with ooc behavior that is so rampant in the comics that they might as well be flanderized. Really, Idw would get much better reception in the fandom as they once had if they were more conscious of the choices they made in the writing. 7.Explore and expand FIM's lore that the show isn't doing. One thing I'd love to see the comics do more is trying to do some worldbuilding in Equestria the show isn't going to touch or expand upon the stuff the show estahblished. I want to see more background on the deer kingdom in Equestria or even Zecora's homeland if the show permits. Done right I feel IDW would get more love for it. 8. Treat fan responses with much greater respect and pay fan feedback with improvement to your work. A big stark contrast difference between DHX and IDW is that while neither likes especially harsh and over the top criticism, DHX will at least allow folks to voice and let their criticism be heard and even talk to fans about it for improvement. IDW meanwhile will usually block you like Jeremy Whitley had done, write some half assed apology for incorperating two huge anti bronies and their oc's in his comic like Ted did, throw in a line that attacked critiques of the comics as taking it too seriously or possibly remove the involvement of a group of characters as a 'take that, audience' moment as Katie Cook and Andy Price had done, or remove the forums on IDW's website just because they din't want to listen to feedback like Bobby Curnow did. They don't have to like the criticism being thrown at them, but they exist for a reason and they must find out why and if it valid and must be taken into consideration in their next work Otherwise, they'll continue to be derided by this passionate fandom for blocking out helpful critques that can help imprive the comics just so they can be in their own personal comfort instead. I would like to see IDW go back to the heights they once had in 2013, the year where many folks had actually considered to be the future the brony fandom should latch onto after season 3 receiving mixed opinions and eqg being derided. It says something when folks prefer the bratz ripoff over the comics now.