Is our society designed to prevent friendship?

[Justin_Case001 4,889]

I am one of those people that has a very hard time making friends irl.  I have a small circle of close friends, but we all live in different states now.  I moved to my current location over five years ago, and the closest thing I have to a friend is the person who cuts my hair.  I don't know anyone here, and just don't know how to meet people.  I often feel like our whole culture is constructed to prevent friendship.

 

Look at the way these forums work--I joined a couple months ago.  I have made a bunch of friends, and actually feel a real sense of community here.  On the internet, you can post anything you can imagine.  You can write all about your thoughts and feelings and opinions.  Other people read it and get a window into your personality.  After being on these forums for awhile, I feel like I've gotten to know a lot of you a fair bit.  And many people have gotten to know me.  We can advertise so much about ourselves here, and others who share your viewpoints or just take a liking to you will gravitate towards you and extend offers of friendship.  I have made several freinds here based on similar interests.  I have also made several friends just because someone pm'd me and said something to the effect of "I've seen you around here a lot, and you just seem like a cool/nice guy."  That's incredible to me.  That just means the world.  I came here, and within a couple of months, I made enough of an impression that someone wanted to be friends.  That blows my mind.

 

Compare that to the real world.  It's just all retail businesses where people are paid to ask how you're doing even though they don't care.  People keep to themselves.  You can't just walk up to strangers and ask if they want to be friends.  You can do that here, but in real life, that's a good way to get pepper sprayed.  We're all so paranoid in real life.  Everyone is a potential villain out to steal your identity.  And I'm no better.  I'm a hypocrite, too.  I keep to myself because I'm afraid to talk to anyone, and no one looks like they want to be bothered anyway.  Irl, you can't give people much of a window into your personality.  We can't walk around with big signs over head with forum posts on them so people can read something about you, and say, "Hey, he sounds nice.  I think I'll chat with him."  The only way to connect with others is to be involved in the same thing as them, like a class, and then slowly approach them after they've seen you around enough that you hopefully won't be considered a creeper or a pervert.  This process is so slow, with so little payoff.  I haven't found anything that works for me. 

 

But online, we're all safely annonymous, so we can freely chat with anyone.  I so wish that real life could work like these forums.  Just ask someone if they want to be friends, and bam.  Friends.  That's all there is to it.  Definitely can't just ask someone if they want to be friends irl.  No siree.  Unless you're five years old.  Then it works.

 

I know there are some ways to meet people.  Meetup.com, for example.  Specifically designed for people to get out and meet new friends, but it's just so hard.  I haven't found any meetup groups that would work for me, or that I feel comfortable going to.

 

What do you all think?  Do you feel like our society is often cold and discourages friendship?  Do you wish life could work like the internet?

[Shift 4,272]

Or you could join a club that relates to your interests and make friends there.

[Kay Dreamer 884]

I worry a little how hard this may become once I'm no longer studying. You're right about meeting people being difficult in day to day life. I'm not going to have time to do extra classes or indulge in regular hobbies, either. (A concert band - maybe - is about as much as I could handle.) That said, I'm going to be a teacher. Interacting with students is not quite the same, but it's still very rewarding.

 

That said, I'm very much an introvert. I'm happy with just a few close friends. I don't have the time or the social energy to handle meeting up with different friends every weekend when I just want to unwind in my own space.

 

I guess the best way to earn friends IRL is to join like-minded groups. There are meetups of anime fans and sci-fi fans which are fairly regular, and the city where I live is not exactly large. There are writers and roleplay groups which can be joined if you enjoy that kind of thing. I can see myself joining a community band the instant I have enough money to purchase a new french horn. There are large gaming groups to be found here and there. Do a bit of googling for your local area based on your hobbies and see what comes up.

[Guest90210 3,568]

The reason real life is so different from the internet is because you aren't actually physically interacting with anyone. In real life, if you say the wrong thing or say something that someone else might take the wrong way, you might get your jaw socked off. The worst that same person could do on the internet is send you hate mail, which obviously won't physically affect you. Some people (like me) are incredibly poor at social interaction and are simply uncomfortable around other people, so it's easier for me to express my thoughts online. Meeting random people is potentially dangerous in all aspects, but much more-so in real life.

 

I don't think it's a "Society" problem, it's just how we as humans interact

Edited June 20, 2014 by Rivendare

[ReverseFaller 2,483]

It's harder to make friends in real life. I'm pretty awful at making friends, and the internet definitely makes things easier. You know people's interests faster, and you can find like-minded people with the click of a button. You have forums, blogs, and even entire sites devoted to things you're interested in. 

 

In real life, you have to keep in contact with people and it can be hard to do this sometimes. It sucks to only be able to talk to a friend once or month, or something along those lines. On the internet, you can just message you friends. In real life, you have to talk on the spot and you sometimes will say stupid things. You can think out what you're goig to post before sending on when contacting someone virtually. Anyways, I find that the easier way to make friends in real life is to go to meet-ups, and conventions. 

Edited June 20, 2014 by Mikami

[Starlight Sky 374]

Not by design, but it can certainly feel that way. Largely because conventional wisdom is a bunch of adages that don't add up. We keep one another in check by prioritizing those common ideas and fears. It helps to ask, "who invented the rules I live by?"

 

Another thing is that the values we're taught tend to shift as we age.

 

Things like "Don't give into peer pressure" and "You need to be able to sell yourself" make an easy example. They conflict so readily out of context, and people absentmindedly absorb them - from exposure so gradual that it becomes the new natural. While both can be reconciled, it's presented as an ultimatum. If you don't fit the mold, you'll get tossed out.

 

Getting caught up on reaching "the goal" without realizing the price is a trap many fall into. If you gotta delay personal freedom for something like money or status, you'd end up forgetting what freedom even was; and that's assuming you ever reached that point. It's a broken game. Our move though. Always has been.

[mars 4,862]

Friendship is magic. You meet new people by talking to them. Are you two waitong for the bus? Sitting seperately (and alone) in a cafe? "Hello! How are you today?" is a simple conversation starter. Also, compliments are great. "Hey, I like your shirt. Where did you get it?" Yes, I suppose it could be more difficult if you're shy in real life, but it's almost as easy as making friends online. One difference is that they see how you look, and the other is that you can't look at their user profiles to discover their interests. But our society isn't designed to make friendship difficult to achieve, it just takes a bit more effort.

[Ashen Pathfinder 16,161]

I kinda know how you feel. While I made some acquaintances during my time in public school and college, I never really made any lifelong friends that I could hang out with or share my interests with. I did have one, but he and I have drifted apart for one reason or another.

 

On forums like these I do feel closer to people, and I believe that is largely because I find people I can share my interests with and not feel like I'm some sort of outsider who doesn't 'get' the real world or whatever.

 

Now, while I haven't made actual friends yet on these forums, I'm sure the feeling of community will only grow with time.

 

In the end, it's not exactly society's fault; it's the individuals within, and the answer is actually even more complex than that.

[SailorMedamonGirl1 127]

Now that I think about it, our IRL lives are more isolated than we think.

 

It's surprising that the most sincere and kindest ponies online are the ones that end up being the shut-ins.

 

This is true for me, if any of you met me in real life you wouldn't even know who I was.

 

I would be just a awkward fat filly that wouldn't even look at you while she looked at something like a complete Derpy. 

 

Of course, like Destiny said, it might be hard for you to just say 'Hi' but you can do it. 

 

But, there is one thing: If you are still in school, especially High School, it'll be tough to talk to anypony without the slightest bit of harassment. No matter what it be; your hair, your clothes, or even if they just don't like you because you seem like a easy target. I think it does get easier once you find ponies with similar interests, but I think I can vouch for saying that after school all ends and you go to college you can meet those who are exactly like you. 

 

At least....that's what I heard from ponies that have graduated. 

 

So all I have to say is: Just wait until you graduate from highschool and go to college, because then you'll meet your true friends there. And if you don't have friends even after that, then go and just say 'hi' to someone and wish them a good day. 

[Tigerpop198 696]

Nope, just find people with similar interests, and that are not complete dirt bags. Society got no involvement here.

[Titan Rising 2,156]

The answer to your question is yes.  Maybe its a result of "the american dream" but it seems to me that this society we have created has decided to place pleasure above all else.  What has this resulted in?  Paranoia.  Everyone thinks everyone is out to steal their pleasure because everyone puts pleasure on a pedestal above all else.

 

So people become less trusting of each other in general: they are less hopeful that their neighbors will become their friends.

 

Friendships become stagnant the minute that interests no longer coincide.  It becomes too much of a hassle to see what your friends are doing when you're off doing your own thing.

 

Even families are torn apart by this.  For the longest time the only things I would do with my family are watch tv and eat dinner.  The truth is I hated every second of it and part of the reason I've set off on my own little journey now is to break this cursed habit.

 

Friendship is not everything though.  What I would suggest to you is to set off on your own journey.  Don't seek out people to be friends with, that will happen over time without you even realizing it.  As the song goes - lifes a journey not a destination - I believe this wholeheartedly.  Lifes about setting goals and climbing as high as you can, and you'll meet people along the way - ones that lift you up and ones that you'll lift up as well.  But if you don't climb at all yourself and just wait for someone else to come along and help you up it may not happen...

 

I hope that made sense.  I try giving advice sometimes but I guess it comes off too much as preachy and I don't think people agree with me too much

[Pinkamena-Pills 6,839]

Honestly i believe so.

 

If only because society expects people to fall into a certain column or stereotype,and when they do not,are shunned,atleast outside the internet. 

 

Tho im sure the 'look out only for yourself,unless there's a profit' mentality that has been seeded into society isn't helping either.

 

Honestly the internet feels more of a 'community' to me than the outside world imo.

[aoEAF2FBvC0MIo2Q 3,673]

Would you expect anything less in an economic system that places people in competition with one another? Things only get worse when the competition becomes more difficult and the stakes made high. Such is the case in more unequal societies like the USA. Anyone could be a threat to your success. Anyone. As was said already, you have to be able to sell yourself and that's true... and make sure you don't get beaten to the punch by a competitor.

 

That's just how the economic game is contributing to this. Schools aren't just places where you learn about different subjects from books, no. You also learn just how uncaring and callous people can be and just what you have to do to protect yourself. Bullies will pick any weakness to subdue you to validate their own ego. This reality being omnipresent, you'll search for different ways to protect yourself. For me, the first line of defense is to stand out as little as possible. The second line of defense is what I show about myself; to be unrelenting, fearless, callous, cold and cruel humor to make me appear somewhat psychotic. Violence is the last line of defense. Really, aside from science, math and everything else, I spent pretty much the entirety of elementary and middle school learning how to keep people away from me because with few exceptions, they have been complete assholes where teachers or other authority figures and even parents have proven to be utterly incompetent in helping the situation.

 

My mother has told me on several occasions not to expect the worst in people and perhaps other things that fall in line with the show but really, the examples that have been set deeply conflict with the poetry.

 

At least over here, I will try to be more open... After something that happened at a different pony forums, I'm very inclined to keep my guard up here as well.

[Fluttershyfan94 5,742]

Not really, I mean think about it. Schools, workplaces, shops, malls, meet-ups everywhere around you there are people that are possible friends. Have something in common with you, especially if you're interested in something it's often like you instantly become friends. I'm a rather shy, socially awkward and don't feel the need to make friends unless I feel like it. But I have experienced how easy it is if you find something in common. For me I usually ask them about something, then that may lead to another question until I'm acquainted with them. If you find a similar interest, that's when you can become better friends if you want to. It's all about being approachable, I think that I'm approachable but people don't usually take their time getting to know me. So it's all about really being open to making friends, also even though I'm not good at making friends I have learned that most people are interested in getting to know each other so it's all about starting up a conversation. As hard as that may seem, simply saying "hi" to someone may lead to that conversation. Therefore, I think it isn't any different.

 

Problem is though, I've noticed how most people just watch the screen of their smartphones instead of hitting up a conversation. So I guess in a sense what keeps us connected is what isolates us. Though I can't say I'm one who has a easy time starting a conversation I'm just pointing it out.

 

I can't say I'm a fan of society either, so I don't know maybe it's just us.

Edited June 21, 2014 by Fluttershyfan94

[Jennabun 1,579]

I agree that it seems really hard to make friends in our current society.

 

I have a core group of maybe 3 friends that I met in elementary/middle school, and those are the only friends that really stick with me. I've been incredibly lucky that I just happened to bond with these certain people so early on in life and that they happened to stick around. That's not the case with a lot of people.

 

As far as making new friendships, like from my recent, adult life? Im-fucking-possible. Any other friendships I've made from jobs, clubs, college classes, etc. always end up getting cut off. My job friends become distant when I get a new job. My club friends that I met in college and used to hang around all the time became distant when I graduated. Same with the people I met in classes. I don't know. It just seems inevitable that, at some point, someone moves away or gets married or gets new friends and then disappears off the face of the planet. Life just gets in the way. People get busy. It makes me really sad when I think about all the people I've met and now it's just like, "Huh, now it's like we never knew each other."

 

I don't know. It's really easy for people just to say, "Just go out there and MEET PEOPLE!" But like, how does one meet people and become friends out of the blue? I hate small talk with a burning passion - I wish I could just skip to being comfy friends with someone right away. The problem is I never learned how to start a friendship - all my friendships were accidents. I don't know how to naturally approach someone I think I might be interested in as a friend and say like, "Hey, soo I think you're pretty neat, wanna come to my house and watch tv!?" It just FEELS SO AWKWARD. Especially since I'm bi, I'm always nervous people are going to think I'm trying to hit on them. Ugh. It causes me anxiety.

[Lagom 204]

I can understand your point, finding others to talk with and becoming friends is difficult, also it seems today that you sometimes just can't trust people and are afraid to be manipulated, also the only reason why one talks with others can sometimes be because they're forced to because of school, work and so on. But sometimes you got to throw yourself out there. I don't think there's something wrong either with trying to befriend people over the internet, but there's a real life out here with millions of people that could end up becoming your friend, one could try to join a club or try to talk to the girl/guy in your school or at work just to see if they could end up being your friend. You never know.

 

For my self it's difficult to befriend people, but when I can open up, I feel I just function (a lot) better with people when I know them in real life, because I get to know who they are too, know where their mental limits are, their positive qualities and it's easier (but not that much) to read their emotions, to talk personal and to be more genuine (I know it's the same with the internet where you have chances of douchebags and as well genuine, kind and caring people). So even though I feel it's difficult too and I feel like a social failure in public, I just have better time with relationships in real life and yes I'm afraid of friendships and relationships will break and lose them, I worry too much about what people think but I'll take the chances of getting hurt, hurting, losing, failing but also of meeting new people, learning new things and seeing the world through a different perspective. 

[Invincible 2,091]

 

 

I am one of those people that has a very hard time making friends irl.  I have a small circle of close friends, but we all live in different states now.  I moved to my current location over five years ago, and the closest thing I have to a friend is the person who cuts my hair.  I don't know anyone here, and just don't know how to meet people.  I often feel like our whole culture is constructed to prevent friendship.

 

 

I think i know where you're coming from. It's because of how exterior status and public image is perceived in human nature. Notice that while it's true that you can maintain a anonymity over the internet, it's also related because of where it stems from. You don't want to show others more than what you wish to show, which is generally considered a smart policy. Because others might hurt you. Bad.

 

But there are also a lot of people that once you've opened up to them, will in turn open up to you, similarly, because of that same reason. That's actually a very fascinating subject that you've brought up and what i just said is my personal opinion- i would actually like to see some studies on it.

[Guest]

Yes. Unfortunately we have allowed our society to degenerate to such low standards where ignorance reigns. Its sad seeing how the entropy slowly takes control, even of us. Anti-bronies are a prime example of this...

[Justin_Case001 4,889]

Once again, my feeling of community and belonging here is reaffirmed.  I opened up about a sensitive and complex topic about myself, and you all responded with such interesting, sympathetic, empathetic, and thought-provoking replies, from multiple viewpoints.  Thank you.  I enjoyed reading all of them, and it makes me feel better to know I'm not the only who feels this way.

 

I'm just going to respond to a few ponies here.

 

Or you could join a club that relates to your interests and make friends there.

Oh, believe me, I've tried.  Easier said than done.  It's so hard to find clubs.  Sometimes I think they don't even exist, that it must be some wild goose chase.

 

 

 

Not by design, but it can certainly feel that way. Largely because conventional wisdom is a bunch of adages that don't add up. We keep one another in check by prioritizing those common ideas and fears. It helps to ask, "who invented the rules I live by?"

 

Another thing is that the values we're taught tend to shift as we age.

 

Things like "Don't give into peer pressure" and "You need to be able to sell yourself" make an easy example. They conflict so readily out of context, and people absentmindedly absorb them - from exposure so gradual that it becomes the new natural. While both can be reconciled, it's presented as an ultimatum. If you don't fit the mold, you'll get tossed out.

 

Getting caught up on reaching "the goal" without realizing the price is a trap many fall into. If you gotta delay personal freedom for something like money or status, you'd end up forgetting what freedom even was; and that's assuming you ever reached that point. It's a broken game. Our move though. Always has been.

 

Genius.  Pure genius.

 

 

Would you expect anything less in an economic system that places people in competition with one another?

Honestly?  No, I wouldn't.

 

 

That's just how the economic game is contributing to this. Schools aren't just places where you learn about different subjects from books, no. You also learn just how uncaring and callous people can be and just what you have to do to protect yourself. Bullies will pick any weakness to subdue you to validate their own ego. This reality being omnipresent, you'll search for different ways to protect yourself. For me, the first line of defense is to stand out as little as possible. The second line of defense is what I show about myself; to be unrelenting, fearless, callous, cold and cruel humor to make me appear somewhat psychotic. Violence is the last line of defense. Really, aside from science, math and everything else, I spent pretty much the entirety of elementary and middle school learning how to keep people away from me because with few exceptions, they have been complete assholes where teachers or other authority figures and even parents have proven to be utterly incompetent in helping the situation.

I hear ya.  I was always the bully target throughout school.  (I'm 28, so that part's long over, thankfully.)  My strategy was also to be inconspicuous.  It's really a honed skill, isn't it?  From elementary school right up through high school, I practiced and got very good at being inconspicuous so that I would not get tormented.  It's only recently that I've had the courage to start expressing myself a bit more, and being who I want to be.  But it's still hard.

 

 

The answer to your question is yes.  Maybe its a result of "the american dream" but it seems to me that this society we have created has decided to place pleasure above all else.  What has this resulted in?  Paranoia.  Everyone thinks everyone is out to steal their pleasure because everyone puts pleasure on a pedestal above all else.

That's it exactly.  Well said.  And, as always, the bad people ruin it for everyone.  Because some people are out to destroy us, it means we all have to have our guard up all the time.  I try to think the best about people, but for my own safety, I still have to be suspicious and keep my guard up.  Two people can easily open up and befriend one another online, but if those same two people pass each other on the street, each one will eye the other and think, "The f*ck is he looking at?  The f*ck is he thinking?"

 

Now, I don't want to seem completely gloom and doom.  I know that it is possible to strike up a conversation, and not everyone is out to get you.  And I really appreciate all you ponies who looked on the more optimistic side as well.  Irl, I'm kind of famous for being the world's biggest pessimist.

 

@@Jennabun: once again, I so thoroughly agreed with your post.  As I was reading it, I just kept nodding and saying, "Yup, that's me all right."

 

This reminds me of a relevant story I'd like to share.  I realized, some years back, that every friend I have can be traced back to one moment.  In 2nd grade, a new kid arrived part way through the school year.  He wore a massive parka with a furry hood sinched down around his face, even though it was about 90 degrees out.  Everyone laughed at him.  I approached him and asked, bluntly and out of the blue, if he'd like to be friends.  Now, we drifted apart a few years later, but through him, I met my first lifelong friend, and through that friend, I met every other lifelong friend I now have.  These are the friends that all live in different states now, mind you.  But it's fascinating that it all stemed from that one event, that one bold move.  I want to believe it can happen again, and that it can be that simple, but unfortunately, as I said before, it just doesn't seem to work the same way as adults.  It's much harder.

 

So often, (like many ponies here), I wish I could live a different kind of life in another culture, or better yet, another world entirely.  I feel like I was born the wrong place and/or time.  I wish I could have either lived in the distant future, in Star Trek when money no longer exists, or in the distant past in a simpler time where you just farm in a small villaige.  I often wish I could live a primitive lifestyle in some small tribal village or something.  But I know that I wouldn't actually like that, because it's much harsher and more difficult than the idealized image in my mind.  I like modern conveniences.  I like technology.  But with it, the sense of community seems to have been lost.  I want to live in a town where everyone knows everyone else's names, and they're all friends.  I wanna live in friggin Ponyville.  (Don't we all?)

 

 

Actually, I've always loved Maximus's description of his home in Gladiator.  That's how I want to live.  (skip to 2:45 for the relevant part)

 

WHOA, that was long.  Sorry.  You know me, I love to write!

 

[Kel_Grym 1,917]

Its like this.

 

If you lived in a small close knit community you would probably make more friends. However things are different. There are more people in the world than ever, and there is a giant diversity in that pool.

 

In a big city, you don't know who or what kind of person you're going to meet. They could be coming from 1 of 1000's of different backgrounds. Some of those backgrounds being darker than what you'd be able to mix with.

 

Another issue is trust.

 

For the same reasons I stated before, you don't know who you can trust and who you can't.

 

Things would be different, I suppose, if we lived in smaller close knit communities, the kind of towns where everyone knows everyone, but for most of us that isn't the case.

 

Also, people are really busy. They got shit to do and bills to pay, and they can't be bothered with every new face they see. You're face is just one in an ocean of faces.

 

The world is a jungle and real friends are far and few in between. Cherish the ones you have. I forget who, but someone once said, "The fewer that follow me, the nobler they are."

[Titan Rising 2,156]

That's it exactly.  Well said.  And, as always, the bad people ruin it for everyone.  Because some people are out to destroy us, it means we all have to have our guard up all the time.  I try to think the best about people, but for my own safety, I still have to be suspicious and keep my guard up.  Two people can easily open up and befriend one another online, but if those same two people pass each other on the street, each one will eye the other and think, "The f*ck is he looking at?  The f*ck is he thinking?"

 

Now, I don't want to seem completely gloom and doom.  I know that it is possible to strike up a conversation, and not everyone is out to get you.  And I really appreciate all you ponies who looked on the more optimistic side as well.  Irl, I'm kind of famous for being the world's biggest pessimist.

There's a balance that has to be preserved I think, and that is: hope for the best, expect the worst.  In a way we have to expect the worst in order to protect ourselves and the people in our lives, but if we do so out of fear and we take it too far then it will prevent us from making new friends as well as decay the friendships we already have.  By the latter Im referring to how people will often waste their lives worrying about dying or getting hurt rather than seeking new horizons and friendships can grow stagnant and safe (for lack of a better word) in the process

[LED Dasher 228]

The problem with our society is that some people can get defensive and alienate themselves. They try to have a particular ideology and don't wan't to meet others who think differently. I've seen many comments on various articles where people just argue with each other and don't want to reach a compromise. That type of mentality is only going to keep people apart from each other. A good thing to do is to understand how others think and then try to reach an understanding with them.