Death in MLP. Is it really as sensitive a subject as some make it?

[ManaMinori 4,145]

When topics of death arise in MLP, it's mostly to talk about the possibilities of AJ, Apple Bloom, and Big mac's (supposedly dead) parents being given mention in an episode, or killing off Celestia or Luna so Twilight can rule all of Equestria. And many replies to such are that the topic of death in a kid's show is too sensitive a subject for the kiddies.

 

Well, to that, let me just bring up exhibit A. Disney did it first, and they do it well in their kid's shows. Ok, ok, That's not really my evidence. Let's look at the episode "Princess twilight Sparkle", shall we? In this episode, Twilight gets to see into the past where Luna turns into Nightmare moon, and she alicorn beams down her sister, Celestia, and before coming to the conclusion that it's all a view of the past, Twilight seems to believe that Celestia is dead, and the situation is entirely set up for the viewers, as well, to believe such. Dramatic lighting, unmoving princess, Twilight crying over her beloved mentor's 'dead body', you all get the hint.

 

I don't think Hasbro's afraid to touch on the topic of a character's death, else this scene- where everyone, I assume had actually thought Celestia was as good as dead, would've never made out of storyboard mode.

 

And in "Hearts and Hooves Day", Sweetie Belle outright interrupts a funeral during her musical number. LOOK! There's a coffin, RIGHT THERE! Sooooo.....yeaaaaahhhhh.....that reeks of death.

Is it really a topic Hasbro/ DHX considers too sensitive, or is it really us, the viewers?

 

 

[Megas 27,672]

Death in general is a sensitive topic and if the writers don't feel comfortable about tackling it, then they shouldn't have to until they feel they're ready, that's my take on it

 

As for the coffin, it was just quick enough that people pretty much let it go. That's a different beast all together

Edited October 22, 2014 by Ghost Nappa

[mars 4,862]

Death is a very touchy subject. Remember that this show is also a children's show, and children can get scared/traumatized by things that we adults could just shrug off.  Yes, death has been portrayed before in Disney films and others, but it's very tricky to pull off. Maybe the writers don't really want to take that risk.

Edited October 22, 2014 by Aquila
Quoted deleted content.

[AlbaTross 1,586]

I don't believe it's so taboo, but as a network TV show, Hasbro has to avoid crossing certain lines, or approach certain subjects delicately if they must approach them at all. The show shatters all expectations for a series called My Little Pony and then some, so I don't think it can't be dark or anything. However, I do think there are limitations imposed by the type of show it is, even if they're not as intense as one would think, regardless of whether there are other regulations. It's just not the kind of show to have characters die off left and right, and I don't think that's the kind of show fans want it to be either. At most, I think FiM can be Frozen dark, but certainly not Corpse Party dark.

 

As far as death goes, it's possible to approach the subject in an appropriate manner, and The Lion King is a perfect example of that, but it's understandable if the show's staff don't feel confident enough to try to approach such a subject in a similar manner. I wouldn't put it past IDW to try something like that, but even they may have their hands tied in some regards, so who knows? All I do know is that MLP:FiM is not a tragedy. It can have sad moments, but they have to be followed up with happy moments.

[Jeric 46,851]

I don't know Muffins. if death wasn't an issue for Hasbro we would have that Applejack episode I so desperately want. 

[Moved to Elsewhere 11,331]

Well it depends on how well it's used in a story. Death could be used in an episode of say, AJ being sad over her parents' deaths and her friends helping her cope. Though, it would seem out of place to just kill a pony randomly in this light hearted show. So the question is not if they can do it, but if they can do it in the the context of the story.

 

Also, death is a very touchy subject. Remember that this show is also a children's show, and children can get scared/traumatized by things that we adults could just shrug off.  Yes, death has been portrayed before in Disney films and others, but it's very tricky to pull off. Maybe the writers don't really want to take that risk.

 

Oh please, one of the shows I watched as a kid had death as the main character. Also, doesn't The Lion King, which could qualify as a children's movie have a major death scene in it? I thought so. Oh, and if you wanna see worse than simple death, watch any episode of Courage the Cowardly Dog.

[Jeric 46,851]

We do know that the producers want to tackle this subject, but they and Hasbro has said live in a SDCC panel that they haven't found the right way to do it yet. 

[Red Cedar 1,408]

Death, overall, is a sensitive subject and as FiM is generally intended to be a light-hearted show I can understand the reluctance of Hasbro to address it significantly in the show.

Having said that, death is a fact of life. It happens, and it has touched all of us, directly or indirectly, so i don't think it's a subject that should necessarily be shied away from, either.

Disney has handled the topic of death in its shows before, especially in its movies, but that may not be the best example. More often than not, the one who dies in a Disney film is the bad guy. That's not exactly going to get a lot of sympathy. However, even when Disney does make a character's death a major part of the story line, they don't tend to give it the weight it should carry. For example, I think the most profoundly felt death in a Disney film for most animation lovers is that of Mufasa in The Lion King, which is initially tear-jerking to be sure, however, less than twenty minutes later Simba is singing Hakuna Matata with Timon and Puumba. This is hardly an accurate depiction of the grieving process.

I have said this before, and I will say it again. I would absolutely love it if MLP did an episode focusing on the impact the Apple siblings' parents' death had on the three of them (or even just Applejack) and how their friends help them cope. I don't care how their parents died. It doesn't matter, and frankly, I don't want to know. MLP:FiM is a show about friendship, first and foremost. It's in the title. Having an episode that sympathetically depicts how Applejack's friends help her through such a difficult time, or at least, through painful memories, would be invaluable to the show's audience if someone's friend was also going through the same experience, as important to kids today as was an episode of Sesame Street from a generation ago when everyone had to explain to Big Bird that Mr. Hooper had died.

 

As I said, it's a touchy subject and once I can understand the reluctance to tackle, but I sincerely hope it is one that does get tackled before the show ends its run.

[mars 4,862]

Oh please, one of the shows I watched as a kid had death as the main character. Also, doesn't The Lion King, which could qualify as a children's movie have a major death scene in it? I thought so. Oh, and if you wanna see worse than simple death, watch any episode of Courage the Cowardly Dog.

 

Yes! I did watch Courage the Cowardly Dog when I was little. And it absolutely did scare me when I was young. But now? It's just a funny cartoon to me.  Again, as an adult/teenager, things don't scare you as much as they would a little kid. 

 

As for the Lion King: 

 

 

Yes, death has been portrayed before in Disney films and others, but it's very tricky to pull off.

 

We do know that the producers want to tackle this subject, but they and Hasbro has said live in a SDCC panel that they haven't found the right way to do it yet. 

I'm not saying death shouldn't be in MLP, but it should be something that is really, really given time to think about and write out well.

[ManaMinori 4,145]

I fail to see how daring to question a topic that has been brought up by countless others means that I want to kill off any ponies, myself. Does trying to analyze a "taboo" subject make the analyst guilty of wanting to support the same 'taboo"? As for what place it has in MLP, if you must know, there's lots to be learned from a somepony suffering a permanent loss of someone they love. As a result, it can wind up making them stronger in dealing with emotions they might've tried to suppress, for some reason or another. Or to not be afraid of losing somepony close to them, as it's A NATURAL PART OF LIFE.

[Jeric 46,851]

 

 

I'm not saying death shouldn't be in MLP, but it should be something that is really, really given time to think about and write out well.

 

100% agree. And funny enough if they wanted to tackle loss, they don't even need death to do that. No, it would have to be done in a very sensitive manner. Nothing like the image that the OP references though. AJ's parents represent the easiest way to address this as they have been dead for years, so you don't have the shock of immediacy. I see nothing to gain personally from killing a major character since I hate the idea of cheap tears. (take that dozens of tweets to MCCarthy yesterday) 

[ghostfacekiller39 23,860]

I fail to see how daring to question a topic that has been brought up by countless others means that I want to kill off any ponies, myself. Does trying to analyze a "taboo" subject make the analyst guilty of wanting to support the same 'taboo"? As for what place it has in MLP, if you must know, there's lots to be learned from a somepony suffering a permanent loss of someone they love. As a result, it can wind up making them stronger in dealing with emotions they might've tried to suppress, for some reason or another. Or to not be afraid of losing somepony close to them, as it's A NATURAL PART OF LIFE.

 

I lost my father to a car accident at the age of 10, and just earlier this month I lost one of my closest friends to Cancer. There is a LOT of suffering and a LOT of pain, my friend. I know from experience. It is natural, but it is tragic. It is something that not only changes whole lives for the worse, but sticks around for years and years. You think of the ones you've lost every day. It eats at you, since you know you'll never see them again. They're gone. Forever. Chunked into the clay. It eats at you and gnaws at you, wrecking your emotions and pushing you to the point to where you just feel as if you're perpetually weeping inside for those you've lost. You think of all the things you could've done better, you think of what could've been, and you wonder what was to come, and you know how you'll never be able to fix the wrongs you did and you'll never know what life would've been like with them. It doesn't leave you alone, either. It's heart wrenching.

 

Forgive me, but I don't think putting that into a 22 minute time span is a very appropriate way to prepare children to deal with the insane amounts of grief that the death of a loved one will rain upon your shoulders. It isn't something you just teach, and handling tragedies such as that in the setting of MLP, which isn't like the aforementioned cartoons above such as "Courage the Cowardly Dog" in the slightest, is something that should either be done appropriately or left untouched. 22 minutes will NOT prepare anyone for the lifetime of sadness such a tragedy would bring upon someone.

 

There's me, taking your topic seriously and explaining why I disagree with your sentiment.

Edited October 22, 2014 by Aquila
Quoted deleted content.

[Moved to Elsewhere 11,331]

Also, if they're do something on death, don't pull a Seth MacFarlane and kill of a major character to get attention only to bring him back a few weeks later.

[Jeric 46,851]

 

 

22 minutes will NOT prepare anyone for the lifetime of sadness such a tragedy would bring upon someone.

 

This ladies and gentlemen, is the near unbreachable argument against, "but it is an important life lesson." If you have lost anyone at a young age, a show may help you cope afterward as any art can do, but an actually death scene will have no educational value to children. None.  

[CheeryFox 23,821]

Also, if they're do something on death, don't pull a Seth MacFarlane and kill of a major character to get attention only to bring him back a few weeks later.

 

Seth MacFarlane just wants to be a lazy piece of trash. Now if you want dedication, Trey Parker and Matt Stone are your guys!

 

And back to the topic, it is a sensitive subject that few want to tread on. 

[TheFunk 2,172]

I don't want anypony dying in this show. that'd be awful.

 

 

unless it's Diamond Tiara, or Snips and Snails

[The Crimson Cross 7,532]

We need to remember this is a show for family and children alike.

Death would greatly interrupt the bright and cheery vibe that MLP produces and would seem a bit detrimental to the desired outcome. Of course death is a sensitive topic for a lot but even covering that topic in MLP seems a little counterproductive.

 

It is fair to say as an older and more experienced viewer that we'd like to see this sort of thing, but in reality it's not fair on a lot of the other audience excluding bronies, even whilst accounting for a great deal of us.

[Cloud Strife 928]

I personally believe that they're able to handle death as a subject, beyond simple references that it can happen. However, the way that they should tackle it is indeed very delicately. I've lost someone in my family before that I hardly knew, and yet when I attended the memorial service, the grief was palpable. I could feel it in everyone who attended, and I'm not the type of person all that sensitive to how other people feel.

 

As of right now, the show has hinted at the loss of Applejack's parents. It's definitely a canon part of the show (it's been referenced even by the staff of the show), but I don't know how they would be able to depict it without making a rather depressing episode with nothing uplifting within it. This show is supposed to be optimistic and there's nothing optimistic that you can spin on death beyond the not-really-comforting "at least they're in a better place now". I'm sure they want to do it, they just don't know how yet.

[Felix 1,363]

Sensitive or not, I just don't think it's necessary. Death only brings tragedy and such. There's nothing about it I think we really need in MLP. Heck MLP has slowly become a bit more accepting of action as shown in the end of season 4. That alone is a rather big step for the show. I don't think they need to go beyond that. I think one of the greatest things about MLP is that it's always joyful and fun at the end. There's no sadness or anything of the like. (Besides those moments where they're in a deep problem) The result is always good. So personally for me death just wouldn't add anything and I don't see what it would fulfill as far as plot and entertainment goes. I mean some could argue that and make up plots that revolve around a death obviously but it's still a family friendly show meant to be fun and cheerful. I like it just fine that way.

Edited October 22, 2014 by Felix

[chirox the pony 1,336]

I don't want anypony dying in this show. that'd be awful.

 

 

unless it's Diamond Tiara, or Snips and Snails

I imagine if there was an episode dedicated to killing Snips and Snails ratings would go through through the roof.

[Kookie 135]

When it comes to kids shows or shows that are "for kids" but adults love it more than kids, death is a sensitive topic but if the writers play their cards right, they can make a death scene of a character, the essence of death, or the symbolism of death very dramatic. A lot of those shows can make a death scene work and not showing viewers "HEY IT'S A DEAD BODY! LET'S MAKE FUN OF IT!" (Felix the Cat movie).

 

But I beg to ask, if they're showing Twilight that Celestia may be dead in that scene because of one allicorn MAGIC LASER, then what if the Princess Celestia we knew today is actually just a realistic but a realistic yet holographic projection of Celestia? Like in Fairy Tail's Cat Shelter guild. That's a what if.

[Planty 1,053]

Death is a very touchy subject. Remember that this show is also a children's show, and children can get scared/traumatized by things that we adults could just shrug off.  Yes, death has been portrayed before in Disney films and others, but it's very tricky to pull off. Maybe the writers don't really want to take that risk.

 

I agree with this, if you look in frozen disney very quickly brushed off the way that Aunna and Elsa's parents died.

 

Death can be be a reality check even for adults!

[Kamii 595]

I do believe that death is indeed a sensitive issue, but I think children have to learn to go through it. When I was 5, I lost my grandfather. Other children might have lost a closer relative and I think a show like MLP could teach to continue living your life after such a tragedy.

I don't think that mentioning that Applejack's parents are dead or how Scoolatoo lives on her own (I don't think it's canon yet...) would be that sensitive of a subject. It's their parents not yours so... I don't get it.

[Pinkamena-Pills 6,839]

I do believe that death is indeed a sensitive issue, but I think children have to learn to go through it. When I was 5, I lost my grandfather. Other children might have lost a closer relative and I think a show like MLP could teach to continue living your life after such a tragedy.

 

I don't think that mentioning that Applejack's parents are dead or how Scoolatoo lives on her own (I don't think it's canon yet...) would be that sensitive of a subject. It's their parents not yours so... I don't get it.

 

 

Your post has a lovely Pinkamena gif in it(seriosly, so saved), but beyond that, the rest of your post is making the assumption, that a 22min show could have taught me how to cope with seeing my grandfather -- who was a strong proud man, who i looked up to for years, deteriorate into a weak, dependent on others, unable to barely talk, pride destroyed, shell of who he use to be, because of stomach cancer. If you are making the assumption, that a 22min episode of mlp could've prepared me for when my mother got into a car accident, and almost died, how to cope with that level of fear knowing that one of the only people in your family who has stuck by you for(at the time) 21 years is possibly going to die on a hospital bed because of a drunk ladies negligence, then despite your optimism, your assumption is nothing short of ridiculous. 

 

I don't think mlp can prepare anyone for losing someone they care for, or coping with the fear of losing someone you care for. And i think the show staff may understand that too, and thus, are steering clear away from the subject. If they want to tackle it, fine, but if they don't, i don't blame them.  

Edited October 22, 2014 by Pinkamena-Pills

[ManaMinori 4,145]

Your post has a lovely Pinkamena gif in it(seriosly, so saved), but beyond that, the rest of your post is making the assumption, that a 22min show could have taught me how to cope with seeing my grandfather -- who was a strong proud man, who i looked up to for years, deteriorate into a weak, dependent on others, unable to barely talk, pride destroyed, shell of who he use to be, because of stomach cancer. If you are making the assumption, that a 22min episode of mlp could've prepared me for when my mother got into a car accident, and almost died, how to cope with that level of fear knowing that one of the only people in your family who has stuck by you for(at the time) 21 years is possibly going to die on a hospital bed because of a drunk ladies negligence, then despite your optimism, your assumption is nothing short of ridiculous. 

 

I don't think mlp can prepare anyone for losing someone they care for, or coping with the fear of losing someone you care for. And i think the show staff may understand that too, and thus, are steering clear away from the subject. If they want to tackle it, fine, but if they don't, i don't blame them.  

Fluttershy has to struggle with her lessons of overcoming shyness and being in public, ect repeatedly, across multiple episodes. Because it's BABY STEPS. She's not going to get over her issues in a day (or the course of a 22 minute episode). Same as Rainbow Dash, because it's not a 1 step process. Her getting over her issues are on repeat, because that's how life works. You have to overcome the same problem multiple times, or over a longer period of time, for it to start taking effect. It's a process. The same could be said for the topic of death, if and when the MLP staff decide to handle it with AJ. Or Scootaloo. Or Twilight (if they kill off Celestia). It's NOT going to be covered and done and dealt with in JUST ONE episode.