Unanswered questions in "It's about Time"

[ManaMinori 4,144]

Looking back on the episode of MLP:FIM; “It's about time”, I couldn't help notice that this- like many episodes, only raises more questions, which are not answered in the episode itself, or in future ones.

 

How the hay does Twilight know just where the gates of Tartarus are, in able to return Cerberus to them? Where in the world would Tartarus be, exactly? In Equestria? Neighboring territories?

 

And why did Cerberus come to Ponyville? Did was it driven out of other territories/ cities, and just happened to stumble its way into Ponyville?

 

Were there other ancient evil creatures, aside from Tirek, who manages to escape from there, while Cerberus had been gone from his post?

 

How did Twilight know that she got Cerberus back before any of the evil creatures could escape? (I mean, she was wrong about Tirek, later on....)

 

If Celestia was sending out lost dog flyers, after Cerberus had escaped, would that make her the owner of Cerberus, thus, making Celestia Hades?* (If it is Celestia's domain, and Cerberus is her dog, did she just take Twilight on a field trip there, or something, one day? “This is the realm that I rule. It is called Tartarus. This is my dog, he is called Cerberus. I also rule Equestria, for some reason, but you already knew that, now moving on...”)

 

Does Spike really mind not being included in the Mane 6's adventures? (he seemed pretty relieved to be without them, in fact, when Twilight was gone off on adventure, and as he's left home alone, he comments that its been the best night sleep he's had in weeks. But in the comic series- which I consider just as canon, he seems to wish otherwise) Character inconsistency? Is this why the writers haven't been including him on the pony's adventures?

 

Is attempting to change the future something Twilight should really go unpunished by her mentor for? Seems like it could only lead to disastrous consequences for, oh, I dunno- likely, the entire global population (same as trying to alter the past. It's not meant to be done)

 

Which, if any, could you see the writers addressing in later episodes? (I'm interested in learning much more about Tartarus, if anything, since there's still lots I think to be explored there, with Twi's knowledge of its location, and how Celestia might tie into it- and or rule over it......) Could mane 6 adventures happen IN Tartarus? Will Sunset Shimmer's former feelings reemerge, as her human friends continue to treat her poorly, causing her to once again go all-she demon and pull her into Tartarus, where the Mane 6 have to pull her out, before she's forever lost to her darkness? Will Spike ever be included in those adventures?

 

*see *8:09 - *8:14 of “It's about Time”

[Panne 1,342]

I'll say it once I'll say it again MLP has always been a show for marketing toys. Of course there will be plot holes the size of neptune. It's like the Bionicle movies, toys first story later, seriously one film gets the ending retconed and the next is like never mind that didn't happen.

Edited January 5, 2015 by Panne

[VitalSpark 1,830]

The Oracle: I'd ask you to sit down, but you're not going to anyway; and don't worry about the vase...

Neo: What vase?

[looks around and knocks over vase]

The Oracle: That vase.

Neo: I'm sorry...

The Oracle: I said don't worry about it. I'll get one of my kids to fix it.

Neo: How did you know?

The Oracle: [moans] What's really going to bake your noodle later on is, would you still have broken it if I hadn't said anything?

 

OK, so related question... How did Twilight Sparkle know where to find the time manipulation spells?

[hawkflame 3,308]

OK, so related question... How did Twilight Sparkle know where to find the time manipulation spells?

 

She knew because her future self told her, of course.  

 

That's the thing about stable time loops.  It's like trying to find the starting point of a moebius strip.  Don't think about it too hard.

[silvadel 1,393]

She knows where the gates are.  Who knows, it may be a tourist attraction.  It being close to Ponyville doesn't surprise me in the least.

[Sunny Fox 5,935]

Looking back on the episode of MLP:FIM; “It's about time”, I couldn't help notice that this- like many episodes, only raises more questions, which are not answered in the episode itself, or in future ones.

 

How the hay does Twilight know just where the gates of Tartarus are, in able to return Cerberus to them? Where in the world would Tartarus be, exactly? In Equestria? Neighboring territories?

Twilight knows stuff. She reads. She knew exactly who Cerberus was and what he was meant to be guarding, so knowing the actual location of the Gates is not much further of a stretch. Since it took Twilight just a day to get there and back, the gates can't be too far.

 

And why did Cerberus come to Ponyville? Did was it driven out of other territories/ cities, and just happened to stumble its way into Ponyville?

Plot convenience, there really is no other reason for him to turn up. Like Matilda just happening to live in Ponyville when Cranky arrives, it's purely for the sake of the story.

 

Were there other ancient evil creatures, aside from Tirek, who manages to escape from there, while Cerberus had been gone from his post?

Tirek is the only one yet introduced, but it's not impossible we'll see some Season 5 villains who will turn out to have done the same.

 

How did Twilight know that she got Cerberus back before any of the evil creatures could escape? (I mean, she was wrong about Tirek, later on....)

She assumed, and was wrong. Nothing to see here.

 

If Celestia was sending out lost dog flyers, after Cerberus had escaped, would that make her the owner of Cerberus, thus, making Celestia Hades?* (If it is Celestia's domain, and Cerberus is her dog, did she just take Twilight on a field trip there, or something, one day? “This is the realm that I rule. It is called Tartarus. This is my dog, he is called Cerberus. I also rule Equestria, for some reason, but you already knew that, now moving on...”)

This show takes many liberties with the Greek mythology it uses. (PS There was only one Pegasus) I don't think Celestia should be considered Hades, any more than Nightmare Moon should be considered Zeus because she can fire lightning bolts.  On the other hand, your speculation here neatly answers your earlier question about how Twilight knew where Tartarus was.

 

Does Spike really mind not being included in the Mane 6's adventures? (he seemed pretty relieved to be without them, in fact, when Twilight was gone off on adventure, and as he's left home alone, he comments that its been the best night sleep he's had in weeks. But in the comic series- which I consider just as canon, he seems to wish otherwise) Character inconsistency? Is this why the writers haven't been including him on the pony's adventures?

Maybe sometimes he wants to go along, and sometimes he doesn't. Do you always want to accompany your friends everywhere, all the time?  Personally, sometimes I just need alone time.

 

Is attempting to change the future something Twilight should really go unpunished by her mentor for? Seems like it could only lead to disastrous consequences for, oh, I dunno- likely, the entire global population (same as trying to alter the past. It's not meant to be done)

Celestia doesn't seem to know Twilight did anything of the sort, based on her friendly greeting to Twilight on finding her in the restricted section of the Archives. And Twilight had access to them anyway, so maybe it's not as large an issue for Celestia as you're making it out to be, even if she did know. Besides, since it's a stable time loop, the disruption to the time line is limited and indeed, inevitable, so why would Celestia punish Twilight for something that ultimately is not her choice? (Personally, I'm more worried about the idea that this episode might prove that the ponies don't actually have any kind of free will - which is pretty meta when you think about it, them being controlled by the writers and all.)

 

Which, if any, could you see the writers addressing in later episodes? (I'm interested in learning much more about Tartarus, if anything, since there's still lots I think to be explored there, with Twi's knowledge of its location, and how Celestia might tie into it- and or rule over it......) Could mane 6 adventures happen IN Tartarus? Will Sunset Shimmer's former feelings reemerge, as her human friends continue to treat her poorly, causing her to once again go all-she demon and pull her into Tartarus, where the Mane 6 have to pull her out, before she's forever lost to her darkness? Will Spike ever be included in those adventures?

I think Sunny's going to be fine. The end of Rainbow Rocks made it clear that not only the Humane Five, but the whole school has now forgiven and accepted her. You seem to be fixated on this supposed poor treatment she's getting. Next, she probably needs the crown to become the she-demon again, since her alternative form is now consistent with the others. Besides, I highly doubt she'll enter into the mane series. And it seems the third EQG movie will involve OriginalHuman!Twilight, so I doubt Tartarus will be involved there either.

 

*see *8:09 - *8:14 of “It's about Time”

Answers in bold in the quote above.

[sweetolebob18 724]

IMO, Twilight knew about where the entrance to Tartarus was because it was close enough to Ponyville to not be unexplored territory.  It's probably in the tour guides under "Sights to see in the Everfree" section.

 

Twilight obviously  DIDN"T check (maybe couldn't) if there were any escapes. I thought Sombra also escaped from Tartarus.

 

Cerberus either came to Ponyville because he knew Fluttershy (if it's close to Ponyville, it's possible) or pure luck.  Take your pick.

 

As to Celestia's actions.  I have often suspected C knows more than she is saying & is possibly the puppet master of EQ.  Maybe Cerberus left his post because C set the whole thing up for T to handle.  C has always gone easy on T for abusing magic (Look at "Lesson Zero", for instance)

[RainbowTashie 378]

well hopefully it will be a landmark to keep falling back on. Much like the prison of askaban(probably spelt it wrong i haven't watched that film in years) from harry potter.

[VitalSpark 1,830]

 

 

I thought Sombra also escaped from Tartarus.

 

Nah. He had been banished to "the frozen north".

[Dulset Tarn 441]

None of the unanswered questions are raised by or relevant to the episode.

[Justin_Case001 4,858]

As far as where Tartarus is located, if you play by God of War rules, you'll fall into Hades' realm if you dig straight down about 100 or so feet, and then Tartarus is a little to the left.  As far as how Twilight knew, she played the games.

[Tilt 286]

I hate time travel episodes because everyone misses the obvious question that needs to be asked.

 

Twilight is the one that causes Twilight to panic and do all that stuff to herself, but here's my question. what causes the first ever Twilight of that time loop to panic and get to that state? Time loops are annoying things and sometimes writing about them can shoot yourself in the foot or hoof in this case quite badly.

 

By all accounts the time loop shouldn't of really happened.

[Dulset Tarn 441]

I hate time travel episodes because everyone misses the obvious question that needs to be asked.

 

Twilight is the one that causes Twilight to panic and do all that stuff to herself, but here's my question. what causes the first ever Twilight of that time loop to panic and get to that state? Time loops are annoying things and sometimes writing about them can shoot yourself in the foot or hoof in this case quite badly.

 

By all accounts the time loop shouldn't of really happened.

No one missed the obvious question, you just missed the obvious answer. Loops don't have beginnings, they're loops. They loop.

[Tilt 286]

No one missed the obvious question, you just missed the obvious answer. Loops don't have beginnings, they're loops. They loop.

But in order for that loop to have started in the first place, Twilight would have had to have been seriously hurt for the first twilight to ever go back in time to warn the past Twilight of something. The loop became that of worrying yes, but a loop has a starting point. 

 

1st Twilight (Would have nothing to worry about but somehow gets injured so goes back into the past to warn 2nd Twilight) - 2nd Twilight causes the pain to herself over worrying and tells 3rd Twilight not to worry - This starts the loop of complete paranoia and now loops into her getting the injuries to begin with.

 

Now the only thing that happens that could happen to 1st Twilight is maybe her injuries were sustained by Cerberus cause she wouldn't be worried and thus the dog would catch them by surprise.

[Dulset Tarn 441]

But in order for that loop to have started in the first place

No see that's where you're not understanding what a loop is. You're assuming that there was ever a point when the loop wasn't there, but it was always there.

[Mesme Rize 15,681]

*This whole thread in a nutshell*

 

[Tilt 286]

No see that's where you're not understanding what a loop is. You're assuming that there was ever a point when the loop wasn't there, but it was always there.

I believe in cause and effect, not this time loop here exists because it does.

[Dulset Tarn 441]

I believe in cause and effect, not this time loop here exists because it does.

>Cause and effect

>Time travel

 

Pick one.

[Tilt 286]

>Cause and effect

>Time travel

 

Pick one.

But time travel done right like back to the future as referenced in this thread, won't leave you with such questions.

[Dulset Tarn 441]

But time travel done right like back to the future as referenced in this thread, won't leave you with such questions.

"Done right" doesn't result in a paradox like Back to the Future did.

[Ashen Pathfinder 16,152]

 

How did Twilight know that she got Cerberus back before any of the evil creatures could escape? (I mean, she was wrong about Tirek, later on....)

 

I'd say things like that are left up to viewer interpretation. If anything, we know Twilight has read a LOT of books, so it's safe to assume she had a general idea, IMO.

 

No see that's where you're not understanding what a loop is. You're assuming that there was ever a point when the loop wasn't there, but it was always there.

 

 

I believe in cause and effect, not this time loop here exists because it does.

 

Seems like this is a case of subscribing to differing theories; kinda like how during the big bang theory (beginning of the universe with a coming end) competed with the steady state theory (an always-existing universe).

[cuteycindyhoney 13,284]

I hate time travel episodes because everyone misses the obvious question that needs to be asked.

 

Twilight is the one that causes Twilight to panic and do all that stuff to herself, but here's my question. what causes the first ever Twilight of that time loop to panic and get to that state? Time loops are annoying things and sometimes writing about them can shoot yourself in the foot or hoof in this case quite badly.

 

By all accounts the time loop shouldn't of really happened.

This has bothered me about time loops since I was little. In "Back to the Future" Marty knew the song "Johnny B Goode" because of hearing the recording of Chuck Berry singing it. Chuck Berry knew the song because his cousin let him hear Marty playing it over the telephone. Where did the song come from?!?

[Dulset Tarn 441]

Seems like this is a case of subscribing to differing theories; kinda like how during the big bang theory (beginning of the universe with a coming end) competed with the steady state theory (an always-existing universe).

Yes and when one theory is internally consistent and the other is not you throw out the paradoxical one.

[hawkflame 3,308]

But in order for that loop to have started in the first place, Twilight would have had to have been seriously hurt for the first twilight to ever go back in time to warn the past Twilight of something. The loop became that of worrying yes, but a loop has a starting point. 

 

1st Twilight (Would have nothing to worry about but somehow gets injured so goes back into the past to warn 2nd Twilight) - 2nd Twilight causes the pain to herself over worrying and tells 3rd Twilight not to worry - This starts the loop of complete paranoia and now loops into her getting the injuries to begin with.

 

Now the only thing that happens that could happen to 1st Twilight is maybe her injuries were sustained by Cerberus cause she wouldn't be worried and thus the dog would catch them by surprise.

 

 

There is no first second or third twilight. There is only one twilight.  There is no repetition of going back in time- it only happened once.  

 

You're thinking of time operating like a coil, - it may loop around, but there's a start and an end point.  What if time is more like a solid ring?  At least that way there aren't any internal inconsistencies.  with the kind of "self fulfilling prophecy" type time travel involved here, there cannot be a "first" loop because that implies that there could have been a scenario where she *didn't* go back in time.  In other words, that implies she had a choice.  But then the self fulfilling nature of the "repeated loops" implies that she doesn't have a choice.  Time can't work one way for one iteration and work differently for other iterations.