There's a Lack of Good Male Characters

[A Black Circle 1,585]

Just because the lack of (well-rounded) female roles occur often in "masculine" shows doesn't make it okay for Friendship Is Magic or any other "feminine" show to do the opposite. One of modern media's biggest flaws is how a product that caters to specific genders and ideologies can't feature a prominent role for the opposite sex. Silver-Quill addressed this in After the Fact: Flash Sentry, exemplifying Assassin's Creed: Unity's lack of women. He also called out Friendship Is Magic for its lack of likeable, fully-fledged male characters. Whenever a male character is introduced, they're often very unlikeable, treated terribly by the writers, or both. For a show intended to be pro-feminist, this is a very notable flaw.

 

Wrong. FIM is a unisex program. Attracted to kids and adults regardless of age or gender like G1. Even though it's about being demonstrating many ways to be a girl (more so a person), it's blind to gender.

 

1. To compare adult bronies as guest is a lot like telling guests "my way or the highway." It's an inherent guilt trip. Adult bronies are as much a part of the audience as kid bronies. Why? Because we're all united under a love for the show like Disney/Pixar for their animated films. Calling adult bronies guests sends unfortunate implications to them and kids, implying how they don't belong. Kids are the base demographic, but all demographics are shared.
2. This has been talked about in corners of this fandom and forum for sometime. This is just one topic. Princess Spike really re-ignited it by how Spike, the only main male character, is reverted to being the punching bag. More people are calling it out here because it's the same thing, and many, myself included, are getting tired of it.

People wouldn't complain over the lack of good male characters if the majority of male characters either are poorly written or suck in general.

1. Snips & Snails: Annoying stereotypes. In EQG, they were written as out-of-character villains. This is an epitome of how not to write a character, especially in a show designed to teach morals.
2. Diamond Dogs: Brutish idiots who were written only for the moral. Unfortunately, the moral of how just because you're a lady doesn't mean you mean you're helpless is undercut by the shortcut.
3. Flim Flam Brothers: Very funny, but then made themselves look like complete fools in their return thanks to their transparent scheme.
4. The teenaged dragons: These are stereotypical "masculine" boys. Complacent, stupid, brutish, rude, selfish, disregarding of life, part of a very xenophobic moral. Like Snips & Snails, an epitome of how not to write a character for educational shows. Dragon Quest is why you have no more mythology about these creatures.
5. Shining Armor: A very flat character, shoved into the episode without fanfare just to create a toy out of him. Rather than developing him, he's been relegated to the background in favor of his wife.
6. Flash Sentry: Already wrote why this secondary character sucks.
7. Bulk Biceps: While he was good in Hurricane Fluttershy and Wonderbolts Academy, he suddenly was incapable of flying, tone deaf, stupid, and couldn't care less about the Equestrian Games.
8. Silver Shill: Generic personality and weak resolve.
9. Big Mac: Originally a quiet, intelligent character of few words, reduced to a constant "eeyup!" gag.
10. Trouble Shoes: He's supposed to be a very humorous character. But his clumsiness could've hurt somebody, and then the episode switched it into a comedy. In addition, he wanted to be taken seriously, but the episode paints him as some kind of joke.
11. The yaks: Stereotypes of vikings, Native Canadians, or both. Vikings due to their war-first ideology and climate. Natives because DHX is in Canada, the majority of the Canadian Natives live in the territories, warrior background, and primitive language.

Spike is his own category. He is the only main male star of the show, and he's also a completely different species. In other words, you can expand a completely different point of view in Equestria. But there are several major flaws:

1. The majority of his stories are completely clichéd. While even the Cutie Mark Crusaders are given more unique conflicts and episodes, he's stuck with the same stories you can find in other shows. Sometimes his episodes are worse than those episodes. Dragon Quest is a clichéd episode, but (from what I read) Gravity Falls handles it better.
2. His character continues to be flanderized. Instead of being the lovable, snarky, competent, hard-working dragon, he's literally Murphy's Law. Sometimes, his screwups come from his stupidity.
3. Spikabuse. Far too often, his character's under the subject of many, many terrible jokes at his expense. This is an even bigger problem in his episodes, mainly the three Spike torture porns: Owl's Well, Just for Sidekicks, and Princess Spike. His character's not a punching bag for lazy comedy. If you treat the female casts one manner, you treat him the same.

Princess Spike is where the complaints have been the loudest, and for good reason. Every other main character has grown, but Spike's resets once the credits roll. Instead of treating him with some level of respect, the writers imply a lack of faith in the character and lack of effort in giving him quality character development. Princess Spike is the first episode where they all but admitted it to the viewers. How? Through the final cut:

 

C&P'd from my Princess Spike analysis:

 

You're objectively wrong. There are no good reasons to hate bronies. Like it or not, this ain't good enough, either. Until more male characters are treated with respect, those complaints will continue, and rightfully so. Don't scapegoat the bronies for the anti-bronies' sexism. Blame the anti-bronies for enforcing these gender politics and not critically thinking why adult bronies complain about the way many males are given the short end of the stick. And blame yourself for sucking up to the anti-bronies' sexist lies.

How much time do you have to post this stuff?

 

Also, I was saying you should be glad that we are getting some strong female characters, as there seems to be more strong male characters, not that there shouldn't be any.

[Ziggy + Angel + Rain 11,298]

For the most part (and with very few exceptions), I don't care about the males appearing in MLP:FIM.  And I really don't have to.  The less I see of SnipsandSnails, though, the better.

[WsConanRoyal 63]

Following the mess that was Princess Spike, it dawned upon me that Spike is the only significant male supporting/lead character in FiM. Big MacIntosh is relegated to Applejack episodes and otherwise barely speaks or does enough for us to know much about him. Prince Shining Armor while playing an important role as Twilight's big brother, is often notably absent and almost always otherwise plays second fiddle to Princess Cadence. 

 

While Discord is worth mentioning as a major male character, he doesn't fill the role as a supporting or lead character like Spike does. Discord warrants a major discussion of his own.

 

That leaves us with poor Spike, who consistently appears not just with Twilight, but with the rest of the Mane 6 and in the openings. Every season there's about 2-3 episodes devoted to or involving Spike. He's also consistently appeared in the majority of episodes, and I don't mean as a background character either.

 

 

Sadly that clip sums up Spike's role in the series, unintentional as it may be. He's a perpetual, doormat, punching bag, scapegoat and running gag. His character is rarely given the true respect it deserves both by the writers and characters on the show. Spike is thus stuck with being very virtuous and good-hearted, but stuck with poor characterization as a child and at the receiving end of both jokes and blame as Princess Spike shows.

 

Beyond Spike we really don't get much either in terms supporting characters. Big Mac is simply too much of a second fiddle to Applejack and even Granny Smith to have much impact and Shining Armor is Cadence's bitch. Discord does show a lot of potential as a major male character, especially given his unique status as an anti hero, but time will tell how much of a role he can play.

 

FiM is still obviously directed at "little girls" and hence the protagonists are all female and I know some are hyped up on the "girl power" feminism aspect of the show. But if the show is to have male characters, they should at least get equal respect and not relegated to neglect and just gag roles a la Snip and Snails. If Spike really is a dragon, I insist that the show actually treat him more as one and not some as some pony pleasing whipping boy. 

 

The title of this post worried me, and was kind of misleading. There are actually a good amount of quality male characters in the show. The issue is that they are under utilized, or utilized poorly. Let's look at some of them and think of how to make them better. 

 

(1). Big Mac - Give him more screen time, actual speaking roles, and expand upon his personality.

(2). Spike - Make him always act like he does in Lesson Zero 

(3). Shining Armor - More screen time and important roles that showcase his character well

(4). Discord - More roles like MNFBKD and less like Three's A Crowd

(5). Snips & Snails - Give them actual character development, characterization, and real personalities. 

(6). Doctor Whooves - More screen time (that's it as he's an amazing character)

(7). Pony Fathers' - Give some more screen time and actual characterization/development to them

(8). Various Colts - Same as above

 

The only real problem is how they're written. They are quality characters (with maybe the exception of Snips and Snails), but they just have to be expanded upon and made more relevant. I for one want desperately to see an episode starring Big Mac. Not as a secondary role, not supporting cast, but as the single mane character of the episode. The focus. And he has to have meaningful, well-written dialogue and be shown in a positive light. 

[Ziggy + Angel + Rain 11,298]

I'm also not really a participant in the whole FIM and sexism debate that rears its head from time to time.  The only way to better develop stallions / males is to focus on them more in-show, and I don't particularly want to see that. xD  The Mane Six, all of whom are clearly female, are the most developed and the most essential ponies; I don't support stealing focus from them to give BigMac more of a say.  Maybe BigMac genuinely doesn't have much else to impart.  Rather than accepting the show for what it is, Broners always always want to change it.  Which strikes me as ironic considering that Broners who defend and maintain their Bronerdom are, themselves, refusing to change.  Refusing to become what others want them to be.

[Professor Annabella 330]

In almost every other show, there's a lack of good female characters.

 

Be glad it's this instead of the opposite.

 

I think gender really shouldn't relate anything to how interesting a character is at all. That is if it's female, or if it's male. I mean, thinking back to most girl media... boys are constantly played off as handsome heartthrobs with no personality. Having only interesting girls, or vice versa is lazy writing and lazy characters.

 

I'm a girl, writing a sci-fi novel, and gender doesn't make a difference in how good a character is.

[Knight Hadron 372]

I'm also not really a participant in the whole FIM and sexism debate that rears its head from time to time.  The only way to better develop stallions / males is to focus on them more in-show, and I don't particularly want to see that. xD  The Mane Six, all of whom are clearly female, are the most developed and the most essential ponies; I don't support stealing focus from them to give BigMac more of a say.  Maybe BigMac genuinely doesn't have much else to impart.  Rather than accepting the show for what it is, Broners always always want to change it.  Which strikes me as ironic considering that Broners who defend and maintain their Bronerdom are, themselves, refusing to change.  Refusing to become what others want them to be.

Brony, not broner. Mr. Broner is a boxer.

 

I wouldn't like a Big Mac centered episode, but having him play a bigger role would be nice. Like Doctor Who size, or smaller. A supporting role, instead of a background role.

[Professor Annabella 330]

Granted, if they ever show a male character having interest in a female, the backlash from the fandom is on par with what is currently happening in America

 

I really, really, really hope you aren't saying that people will get mad if there is a HETEROSEXUAL relationship in a show. Gays being aloud to marry somehow makes it not okay to have a traditional relationship in media?!

 

Maybe you aren't saying that, but if you are and it's true, I'd be really mad at the fandom  

Edited June 30, 2015 by Star-Lord

[Ziggy + Angel + Rain 11,298]

Brony, not broner. Mr. Broner is a boxer.

You didn't get the fandom memo: The term "Brony" is being phased out and replaced with "Broner."

[Knight Hadron 372]

You didn't get the fandom memo: The term "Brony" is being phased out and replaced with "Broner."

Sorry, I must have missed it. Ziggs, you must go post it in the Canterlot Castle. Is the Ziggs boson another force carrier of the weak force, in the likes of the Z particle? Or is it another whole field, like the Higgs boson? @@TopQuark, I need you to tell me how all this works out.

 

In the other news, Mr. Broner the boxer is rumoured to be a brony. Look here, at his ear rings: http://www.saddoboxing.com/boxingforum/82716-broner-brony.html

[Ziggy + Angel + Rain 11,298]

Sorry, I must have missed it. Ziggs, you must go post it in the Canterlot Castle.

Were I able to make a new topic in the Canterlot Castle section, I would totally go and post about the Brony / Broner name change. xD

[HereComesTom 2,251]

TBH, one episode with a lot of Big Mack focus could be good if it were done right, with enough of a main plot or subplot with one or more of the mane six involved.

 

Then again, maybe the way they're doing things now is good, and it's better to leave things like focusing on Big Mack to the IDW comics.  I've seen one of the comics focusing on him, and it was pretty good.

[Pinkiponi 27]

You have to keep in mind that you're watching multicolored talking ponies. Obviously right off the bat, the "target' audience in Lauren's creation was girls about 3-12yrs old. But ever since the staff has become more aware of our presence, they've definitely tried to please us. All while trying to keep to their intended demographic. Obviously the female characters will be shown and interacted with the most because they want to live on Lauren Faust's original intension. Take Power Puff girls for example. (a previous creation of Faust) She was trying to show that just because you're a girl, it doesn't make you any less of a person. You don't have to be all dainty all the time if you don't wanna. Which is a good message for young girls in today's society. Again, they are trying to make dudes in their teens, twenties, even thirties happy while also pleasing little girls. It's not something easy to do. As the show has matured and progressed, the writers have thrown in Easter eggs and more male characters. Most likely because of our surprise appearance. There's been Cheese Sandwich, Discord, Trouble Shoes, Soarin, Double Diamond, Party Favor, King Sombra, Tirek, Fancy Pants, Shining Armor, Big Mac, Mr. Cake, Cranky Doodle, Trender Hoof, and several male background ponies and side ponies in episodes. Taken that a lot of them are not MANE characters. But they play a big enough role for the fandom to notice them and they're there. Which tbh is way better than it was in the early years. You were lucky to have 2 or more dude ponies in the background in a crowd of mares. In my opinion, I would appreciate it if there could be a bit more significance in spike. But I won't go into that or I'll be here all night.

[TopQuark 409]

Sorry, I must have missed it. Ziggs, you must go post it in the Canterlot Castle. Is the Ziggs boson another force carrier of the weak force, in the likes of the Z particle? Or is it another whole field, like the Higgs boson? @@TopQuark, I need you to tell me how all this works out.

 

Well, the Higgs field gives bozons mass, so the Ziggs field gives brony particles their energy. However both the Higgs and Ziggs are their own anti-particle, so the Ziggs can give bronies positive creative energy, or negative butt-hurt energy. It was accidentally discovered in 2010 by HASB's HUB collider while experimenting with a new isomer of the MLP molocule.

 

It's not rocket science.

[Lucia 100]

Hear, hear.

 

I detest the argument 'but shows treat female characters like shite so its their turn!!' :| That's not how you teach kids that genders don't ale you worthy or invalid. You don't fight fire with fire, hey.

 

Turning a male character into a proverbial or literal punching bag is disgusting and immature. It is not a way to address issues of poor characterization and relying on a character's gender to design jokes, affect dialogue or simply use it as the basis for their existence.

 

Both genders need to be equal; reserving one specific gender to provide comic relief under the guise of 'its cute to abuse/harm a man but its toxic/sexist when its done to a woman' is unforgivable.

 

Okay, rant over :3

[Knight Hadron 372]

Well, the Higgs field gives bozons mass, so the Ziggs field gives brony particles their energy. However both the Higgs and Ziggs are their own anti-particle, so the Ziggs can give bronies positive creative energy, or negative butt-hurt energy. It was accidentally discovered in 2010 by HASB's HUB collider while experimenting with a new isomer of the MLP molocule.

 

It's not rocket science.

@, is this paragraph easier to understand than rocket science?

 

HASB = Hasbro's Another Series reBoot? HUB = Hasbro U Bronies = Hasbro union Bronies (set theory)?

[TopQuark 409]

@, is this paragraph easier to understand than rocket science?

 

HASB = Hasbro's Another Series reBoot? HUB = Hasbro U Bronies = Hasbro union Bronies (set theory)?

 

HASB = the Hearty Association of Salty Buccaneers. This reseach association was founded in 1624 when Black-Beard the pirate decided to devote his life to science.

 

HUB = Huge Unexpected Boom collider. It was named by the same team who named the Big Bang.

 

At the time of the Ziggs' discovery, the MLP project was being lead by Head Researcher Lauren Faust.

[Conred 274]

There are several respectable male characters on the show, but the discrepancy is to be expected considering who the show primarily targets as far as demographics are concerned.

 

Some of the more notable male characters include....

 

Fancy Pants

Big McIntosh

Shining Armor

Discord 

Bulk Biceps

"Bulk Biceps is a respectable character"

At this point Doctor Whooves is less of a meme than him.

[cider float 2,537]

In almost every other show, there's a lack of good female characters.

 

Be glad it's this instead of the opposite.

Can you give examples? Because I can't think of what shows there are like that.

[Dawning Demon 950]

This thread seems to be filled with feminists complaining about their not being enough decent female characters in other shows...when that's not even what this thread is about...

Edited June 30, 2015 by Dawning Demon

[Aurora Rains 164]

Honestly I don't understand the argument.  Sure the male characters are not played on often other than spike but that is the show.  It's focus is female leads.  People don't read catwoman because they want a strong male lead and they don't read Flash because they want a strong female lead.  Now where I do understand that with the large bro community out there they are wanting a male character they can relate to.  But bear with me.  I'm a woman and yet am able to relate to Batman during his down moments.  I can relate to Wally when the world seems like just a little bit too much.  I feel empathy for Poison Ivy when the plants she loves get destroyed (I also feel sorry for the plants that she felt the need to manipulate them), and male or female who hasn't watched Superman and felt that understanding about being an outsider.  The point of being able to bond and relate to a character shouldn't be dependent on if they are the same sex as you.  If they have traits that you admire or can relate to (good or ill) then let the feelings flow.  

Edited June 30, 2015 by Aurora Rains

[Daring_Do 552]

Can you give examples? Because I can't think of what shows there are like that.

Yeah, I wrote up a post just recently on another thread about my beef with Gravity Falls. So that show's definitely an example, and if that's the norm...

 

We can't deny it's happening, but Dark Qiviut and Lucia might be right.

[cider float 2,537]

Yeah, I wrote up a post just recently on another thread about my beef with Gravity Falls. So that show's definitely an example, and if that's the norm...

 

We can't deny it's happening, but Dark Qiviut and Lucia might be right.

I tried watching the first episode but it was just too boring.

[IJoinedForPonies 124]

In case this wasn't mentioned before, in real life, the ratio of mares is greater than stallions in the wild. So if you are wondering why there aren't that many male pony characters, it is because they are also applying that aspect to the show's lore.

[Knight Hadron 372]

In case this wasn't mentioned before, in real life, the ratio of mares is greater than stallions in the wild. So if you are wondering why there aren't that many male pony characters, it is because they are also applying that aspect to the show's lore.

The reason for many mares is not because of biological reasons, but because of the show's intended demographic. The fact that the show lines up with real life is not the main reason.

[Castle Bleck 19,213]

No, there's not.

 

They just aren't the primary focus.