It's not the magic of friendship...it's the magic of the mane six friendship

[Silver Stream. 708]

Around the time when "The Cutie Re-Mark" was aired, there were many discussions dealing with the Mane 6, Starlight Glimmer, and the alternate futures though I see them more as alternate worlds. Among many, I noticed that some see Twilight taking up all the glory or more her execution struggling due to the fact they made her weaker than Starlight. Other topics were about the theme of the entire season but there is one thing that has been bugging me about this entire series and then the finale: 

 

Twilight: "And it's not just my friendships that are important to Equestria, everypony's are" 

 

 

This.....This line right here....seems to be a load of crap coming straight from the horse's mouth (cue cricket noises)

 

Because despite the words Twilight spoke, we were shown anything but. Within each timeline, we witness past villains as the victors making Equestria and all it's inhabitants live a nightmare with seemingly no hope of stopping them. All because the sonic rainboom never happened, therefore their fates were changed and they'd never become friends. From my perspective, this implies a rather disturbing and unfair truth: the mane six friendship is the ONLY important thing to Equestria....and apparently, without them, all hope is lost. Celestia, other ponies who probably are capable of coming together to stop their foe, the elements of harmony.....even the magic of friendship are rendered useless. 

 

Speaking of which, does it also implies that the magic of friendship only exists within the mane six friendship? Time and time again we have been introduced to friendships that are typically as strong as the bond all our six heroes share.....does their bond not count when it comes to harnessing the power of friendship to defeat a foe?

 

And what of the elements of harmony? Surely there are other ponies....even other creatures....who are worthy of the  "Loyalty, Laughter, Generosity, etc" titles. It's already known that even the mane six are flawed when it comes to being perfect about their element so why not others?

 

 

Perhaps I am reading in it too much, but despite Twilight's humble words and the attempt of the writers to show how even small things like friendships hold a great importance to the world, I think the finale does not back it up. 

 

In fact, many bronies including myself all figurred Season 5 shared the theme of "the mane six aren't always the main focus and cannot always save the day" but the finale crushed it the moment we saw what Equestria would be like without Twilight and her friends. With every timeline we saw, each shared a similar vibe: there is no hope. No hope whatsoever without the mane six. It only shows that other friendships does are less important than the mane six friendships if NOT important at all. 

 

And this exists in other shows and movies as well....where the main protagonists are treated as the world's lifeline....and without them....the world will crash down into endless hell with no hope of winning. But the fact they'd include such a line after all that was shown, I found it sort of hypocritical. 

 

But there is one thing that could prove me wrong in how I feel about this: within each timeline... a villain is a victor right? Does that mean that all the other villains within that same timeline were defeated? As if saying "well in this future, Nightmare Moon WAS defeated again, but Sombra later awakened and no one could stop him...thus the War began" 

 

 

What are your thoughts? 

Edited December 19, 2015 by Silver Stream.

[Malinter 3,064]

it might simply be that Twilight bonding with her friends is a fixed event that must happen. Its a forseen event on the Tree of Harmony. That tree has provided the means for Equestria to exist in the first place. Twilight needs her friends to forfill her destiny and prevent these alternate futures from happening.

 

Twilight's friendships are important. But they do not make the friendships of others any less important. They simply do not impact the timeline the same way subverting those of the mane 6 does.

[Odd Ball 230]

I'll admit, this was one of the things that bothered me about the finale. Hopefully the next finale will have Twilight and her friends unable to stop a life threatening creature by themselves and ask all the ponies in Ponyville to help them.

[Silver Stream. 708]

it might simply be that Twilight bonding with her friends is a fixed event that must happen. Its a forseen event on the Tree of Harmony. That tree has provided the means for Equestria to exist in the first place. Twilight needs her friends to forfill her destiny and prevent these alternate futures from happening.

 

Twilight's friendships are important. But they do not make the friendships of others any less important. They simply do not impact the timeline the same way subverting those of the mane 6 does.

 

I can respect that. I see what you mean, but personally, I don't think the other friendships impact that timeline AT ALL rather than not impacting it the same way. That what makes them less important than the friendships between the mane six. 

 

I'll agree that them becoming friends is a fixed event that must happen...obviously so since we clearly see the many terrible futures that could occur without it. That's my point....I feel as though this whole time there has been lessons that the magic of friendship is the more powerful magic of all and with it there is hope for anything. But from watching the finale, other friendships are rendered useless if there is ever a time when there's great danger. Could it be that the tree of harmony bestowed all of it's power and focus on ONE friendship counting OUT all others? That the fate of an entire world depends on them and only them with no other hope of other qualified ponies doing the same?

 

I know the whole "the fate lies on your shoulders" thing isn't something new in show biz, but it sort of defeats the purpose of Twilight mentioning how other friendships are important to Equestria....it kind of defeats the purpose of spreading friendship in a way as well. I'm aware it's a needed cause in order to make the lives of others better and it's a needed goal to teach lessons that friendships are indeed important to make and work through. But for anyone who's good at stating a horrible truth, it can easily be said: Why work to encourage other friendships when they don't mean squat to Equestria? If anything, this proves that the friendship of the mane six really ARE more important than all others. 

 

But I suppose there can be a loop in all this. Maybe the mane six are destined to the soul lifeline of Equestria so that Equestria can remain well and allow them to spread friendship. Like how in that Family Guy episode, the earth exists because of stewie which leads to stewie being born and the loop never ends. Regardless...it still focuses on them and only them along with their roles in Equestria to spread friendship. 

 

One could argue that this shouldn't be a big deal to point out because this is a kid's show and a kid's show will always make the heroes soul victors....and without the heroes.....there's no hope of the good side winning. I understand, but to make such a statement sort of makes me wonder if they are TRYING to kill that idea but at the same time.....that idea is being implemented throughout entire show and was laid on THICK in "The Cutie Re-Mark"

[Malinter 3,064]

If you look at it another way, Twilight is sort of the Tree of Harmony's avatar. Sure the tree can repel evil and tame the everfree with its power but it can't really do anything beyond that on its own. It needs someone else to spread friendship (and by extension harmony) across equestria in its stead.

 

Its also one of those things that exist in all the ponies but they can forget. The show has covered people taking friendships for granted or letting them fade away. Many episodes have had the ponies involved come together to solve these problems. Twilight and Co are the ones who are sent to help when all else fails.

[Silver Stream. 708]

If you look at it another way, Twilight is sort of the Tree of Harmony's avatar. Sure the tree can repel evil and tame the everfree with its power but it can't really do anything beyond that on its own. It needs someone else to spread friendship (and by extension harmony) across equestria in its stead.

 

Its also one of those things that exist in all the ponies but they can forget. The show has covered people taking friendships for granted or letting them fade away. Many episodes have had the ponies involved come together to solve these problems. Twilight and Co are the ones who are sent to help when all else fails.

That is a good way to look at it. But what if things fail with the mane six? I have no troubles with them being the go-to guys whenever there is a problem or danger in need of heroes. That's the show after all...it only make sense they save the day and repair damage even if they require help of others to do so. That really isn't my issue. I don't even have desires to see background ponies save the day preferably over the mane six saving the day

 

My issue is how utterly hopeless Equestria would be without them. With each alternate future, there is seemingly nothing that can stop the evil that consumes them. It destroys the belief that when there is evil, there is also good to STOP it. Instead....when there is evil and no mane six to stop it....nothing can stop it. Which is a rather sad truth to accept.

And though your points are valid, it only convinces me more that the "it isn't just my friendships that are important Equestria" statement sound like more crap.

 

 

And it's because of this why I never personally liked how some people blame Twilight for seemingly being everything and the others being nothing. If anything...the alternate futures proves Twilight is nothing without the others. So it's more like the mane six being everything and the others....even the "magic of friendship" itself.....useless

Edited December 20, 2015 by Silver Stream.

[Malinter 3,064]

There is also another possibility. Starlight's friendship may actually be very important.

 

After all. Who was the first pony the map sent Twilight to confront? Starlight.

 

Its possible that Starlight's cutie mark wall may have triggered some apocalyptic event of its own had Twilight not disrupted it at that point. The map risked the total destruction of Equestria on Twilight getting though to her.

[ManaMinori 4,144]

My thoughts exactly, and it's a big fat stinkin pile of crap that only makes me dislike Twi even more

What she sai about everyone else's friendship being just as important as hers and the mane 5's is bullshit.

Her and her friends going out and spreading the good news of friendship is bullshit, because every future, no matter what small change is made to te past, depends on the only 6 who decidedly friggin matter

Twi befriending SG is bullshit, because every future already showed dependency on the mane 6. Why bother making new friends? They sure as buck wouldn't matter, now, or ever!

All I see for Twi and friends is stagnation, quite honestly.

There's no need to pass the torch, training others to e friends or fit the bill to ecome new bearers, because every future, as seemn in the fiale, depends only on te mane 6's friendship. There' s no need for the 6 to make friends beyond their little clique, because buck everyone else. The only bond that matters is theirs. Slice of life came in with the "everybody's story is just as important", but that got crapped on.

Bullshit. Twi can keep playing the humble princess of Friendship, thinking that she and her friends aren't any better than anyone else, but the season 5 finale proves that she and her friends ARE.

So all te time we spent making new friends, teaching friendships, following the map in season 5 is all for nothing. Big fat waste of everyone's time, because No other friendships matter.

[Malinter 3,064]

I think they do matter.

 

What we have to remember here is that Starlight is doing one of the big no-no's of time travel. Which is interfering with her own time stream. Twilight became a part of her history and saved her but Starlight doesn't know this yet. These dark futures are what happens if Twilight fails to save her. Which is why the the alternate futures get worse and worse the further back in time she tries to change the past.

 

I think its best to wait and see what they do with starlight in the next season. Only then will we see if Twilight follows up her talk in the finale with actions more than words. 

Edited December 20, 2015 by Malinter

[Silver Stream. 708]

My thoughts exactly, and it's a big fat stinkin pile of crap that only makes me dislike Twi even more

What she sai about everyone else's friendship being just as important as hers and the mane 5's is bullshit.

Her and her friends going out and spreading the good news of friendship is bullshit, because every future, no matter what small change is made to te past, depends on the only 6 who decidedly friggin matter

Twi befriending SG is bullshit, because every future already showed dependency on the mane 6. Why bother making new friends? They sure as buck wouldn't matter, now, or ever!

All I see for Twi and friends is stagnation, quite honestly.

There's no need to pass the torch, training others to e friends or fit the bill to ecome new bearers, because every future, as seemn in the fiale, depends only on te mane 6's friendship. There' s no need for the 6 to make friends beyond their little clique, because buck everyone else. The only bond that matters is theirs. Slice of life came in with the "everybody's story is just as important", but that got crapped on.

Bullshit. Twi can keep playing the humble princess of Friendship, thinking that she and her friends aren't any better than anyone else, but the season 5 finale proves that she and her friends ARE.

So all te time we spent making new friends, teaching friendships, following the map in season 5 is all for nothing. Big fat waste of everyone's time, because No other friendships matter.

I wouldn't put too much of the anger towards Twilight though. More so towards the writers for integrating such a contradiction within the show and the inconsistency between what is shown and the attitude both Twilight and her friends have. They are quite humble...and are executed in a way where they believe in equal opportunity and praise....it's just that the finale said otherwise. I was fine with them being the heroes as it makes sense within any show....but the fact that things get that bad with no hope of escaping that fate without the rainboom which links them to becoming friends is a bit overdoing it to me.

I think they do matter.

 

What we have to remember here is that Starlight is doing one of the big no-no's of time travel. Which is interfering with her own time stream. Twilight became a part of her history and saved her but Starlight doesn't know this yet. These dark futures are what happens if Twilight fails to save her. Which is why the the alternate futures get worse and worse the further back in time she tries to change the past.

 

I think its best to wait and see what they do with starlight in the next season. Only then will we see if Twilight follows up her talk in the finale with actions more than words.

 

It's admirable that you believe others and their friendships are important as the friendships of the main six.

 

For me....I WISH they mattered...because from what I feel is fair and want.is different from what we are actually getting from the finale.

 

And true....Starlight is the cause of the terrible alternate futures. But not from how you explain it. If it was really true that any small thing could alter the future and others and their friendships are just as important...it would have been easier and less noticable if Starlight ruined a more minor friendship of some sort. But her goal was to ruin Twilight's destiny of meeting her friends since their cutiemarks are somewhat linked from one event. It's like proving...of the mane six's fates aren't sealed...then Equestria's fate is doomed.

[Malinter 3,064]

And true....Starlight is the cause of the terrible alternate futures. But not from how you explain it. If it was really true that any small thing could alter the future and others and their friendships are just as important...it would have been easier and less noticable if Starlight ruined a more minor friendship of some sort. But her goal was to ruin Twilight's destiny of meeting her friends since their cutiemarks are somewhat linked from one event. It's like proving...of the mane six's fates aren't sealed...then Equestria's fate is doomed.

 

I have a sneaky feeling the the cutie map was only letting starlight go to places in Twilight's past. I say this because Starlight doesn't seem to have considered going back in time and simply stopping her school friend from getting her mark, thus they never would have broken up and she wouldn't have become obcessed with creating a mark-free society... and given what a supposed magical genius she is supposed to be. I doubt she hasn't just over looked this.

 

The Map only lets her interact with Twilight's past. If it couldn't let it alter her past. She decides to try and alter Twilight's instead, only for her to see what the consequence of that would be. She can't change the past, she can only ruin the future. Leaving her with only one choice. Make new friends which is the one thing she feared more than anything.

Edited December 20, 2015 by Malinter

[Silver Stream. 708]

I have a sneaky feeling the the cutie map was only letting starlight go to places in Twilight's past. I say this because Starlight doesn't seem to have considered going back in time and simply stopping her school friend from getting her mark, thus they never would have broken up and she wouldn't have become obcessed with creating a mark-free society... and given what a supposed magical genius she is supposed to be. I doubt she hasn't just over looked this.

 

The Map only lets her interact with Twilight's past. If it couldn't let it alter her past. She decides to try and alter Twilight's instead, only for her to see what the consequence of that would be. She can't change the past, she can only ruin the future. Leaving her with only one choice. Make new friends which is the one thing she feared more than anything.

 

Starlight had said the map allows her to go anywhere in the past she wants:

 

"It wasn't difficult to figure out Starswirl's spell, he had already done the hard part. But figuring out I can use the map to go to anytime or place and pull you along with me? I even impressed myself"

 

 

So she was capable of going anywhere. She merely chose to go the the time and place that seals the fate of the mane six's friendship and link to their cutiemarks. Though I'm sure she didn't do it on purpose to ruin the world. Like any sensible person, who would even predict one friendship was so important that it was the lifeline of Equestria? She only wanted to ruin their friendship because they ruined what she built. 

[Malinter 3,064]

Starlight had said the map allows her to go anywhere in the past she wants:

 

"It wasn't difficult to figure out Starswirl's spell, he had already done the hard part. But figuring out I can use the map to go to anytime or place and pull you along with me? I even impressed myself"

 

 

Anywhere she thinks it will. And Starswirl does have a reputation of making spells that seem convientely sabotaged in a way that helps Twilight. I think the spell only works IF Twilight is present. After all, what is the point of changing the past if your bringing someone who will just change it back, even more so if its the pony you are specifically trying to screw over?

Edited December 20, 2015 by Malinter

[Silver Stream. 708]

Anywhere she thinks it will. And Starswirl does have a reputation of making spells that seem convientely sabotaged in a way that helps Twilight. I think the spell only works IF Twilight is present. After all, what is the point of changing the past if your bringing someone who will just change it back, even more so if its the pony you are specifically trying to screw over?

 

 

touche my friend. That could explain why the heck Starlight waited. But it is only a theory. She could have done it for her own pleasures to force Twilight into watching her ruin their futures as friends or it literally couldn't be done without her. Even so....then it really is crap to think that no other friendships or no other pony outside of Twilight and her friends matter because everything it ultimately left up to them by chance and there is no hope if they fail. 

[Malinter 3,064]

There are always other ponies and friendships to save the day. Its just that when they stood in that desolate wasteland in that alternate future. Theirs were the only ones that mattered (and possibly the only ones that were even left.) 

 

With Twilight and Starlight accepting each other's friendship, time continues on and new friendships will continue. After all. ponies were still making friends before either pony existed so its not like the magic of friendship entirely hinges on the mane 6. Hell, the other 5 knew each other already just not to the extent they learn from being associated with Twilight.

[Sidral Mundet 1,666]

Yeah I agree. Silver Quill did a video which pretty much summed up what you said.  The whole "Equestria depends solely on the Mane 6" thing was one of the reasons I disliked the finale. (There are other reasons I'll get into elsewhere). The beef I have is that by making things big, you lose the personal touches. If anything what should have happened is that Equestria is generally fine in each reality but each of the Mane 6 is generally worse off than in the main one, have it be that their freindship helped them live happier lives, not that their friendship was the lifeblood of the Equestrian utopia. It would have given Twilight (and by extension us the audience)  a much more personal reason to want to stop and defeat Starlight. 

[Unlikeable Pony 2,698]

Well I think we can all agree the Alternate reality part of the finale was poorly done.

its pretty clear that was never the actual point of the episode but was an EXCUSE to focus on starlight and twilight. which is kind of insane when you think about it, yeah? They have a plotline that fans have been dreaming about for FOREVER, and instead of actually putting the attention to the plot and the alternate universe, the focus is instead on a new character and her and twilight's dialogue with each other

 

Its why the alternate timelines didn't make any sense: they were much like starswirls spell in MMC, a means to an end with no explanation, just a "Don't ask questions!" mantra.

 

 

 

Now, they DID try and give a slight justification in the end: Twilight said that ALL friendships are linked in equestria and that by destroying the mane six's relationships it essentially weakened the fabric of all friendships in equestria as a butterfly effect, leading to the bad realities.
But yeah, that's pretty clearly BS XD




(do note, I actually found myself enjoying the finale for twilight and starlight's interaction, but I find it a TERRIBLE episode to use for a finale due to it not really living up to the ideals and premises of the mane six and the show, which a finale should be all about)

[ASGARDIANBRONY 128]

all friendships matter as without friendship the tree of harmony would turn into a tree of disharmony, but the mane 6 friendship is the most important and there is nothing wrong with that. the mane 6 are the elements of friendship and twilight is magic itself, she is the nexus point of all magic in the universe, thus anything she is a part of is important. if the cmc split up whats the worst thing that could happen. the mane 6 are the most important ponies thus there friendship is the most important.

[Silver Stream. 708]

all friendships matter as without friendship the tree of harmony would turn into a tree of disharmony, but the mane 6 friendship is the most important and there is nothing wrong with that. the mane 6 are the elements of friendship and twilight is magic itself, she is the nexus point of all magic in the universe, thus anything she is a part of is important. if the cmc split up whats the worst thing that could happen. the mane 6 are the most important ponies thus there friendship is the most important.

Precisely. Note, I never mentioned I had a problem with that. But it was hypocrital for the writers to even attempt to have use believe other friendships are important to Equestria just like theirs when it's proven to be the opposite.

 

It's fine....but my concern is that without the mane 6 they are pretty much spitting down on Celestial and all of Equestria for seemingly being weak and defenseless without them. The "magic of friendship" included.

[Nightmare_Shinigami 31]

That's one of the Reason why I consider "The Cutie Re-Mark" to be the worst Season Finale. Honestly I would have rather have "Do Princesses dream of Magic Sheep" as a two-parter Finale, because here the whole Town helps in defeating the Tantabus... just imagine the first Part being Luna trying to catch the Tantabus in the Mane 6 Dreams and the second Part is the Battle in Dream-Ponyville (also that would have allowed the Writers to Show of more Dreamforms) till Luna forgives herself

[Silver Stream. 708]

I personally don't desire a thing where the main protagonist AREN'T the heroes because it's something I've learned to accept not only within this show but within show business in GENERAL. it's quite common people will despise the set heroes to....basically fulfil their role within their own show or movie and save the day?

 

My only thing is how they basically slammed us confirmation that the magic of friendship, Celestia, Luna, Cadence, every good person with potential to represent their own element or the official elements, every good soul in Equestrian......useless and hopeless without the mane 6.

 

Up until this point they stress the importance o friendship and how if you can put your mind to it....it can lead to great rewards right? It's understandable that the mane 6 saves the day always though....and how their friendship is more important because they represent the elements and are the main cast. But it was hypocritical to show us all that and then have the audacity to show us worlds without them being a "mane 6" and.how hopeless it would be.

[Unlikeable Pony 2,698]

Honestly, I'm probably in the minority here because I'm perfectly FINE with and ENJOY the world being fucked without the mane six; I rather like the mane six and their importance XD


But Honestly its not so much the mane six's friendship as their using the EOH that's important really. I know they didn't touch on that because it sounds kind of "Evil" for the EOH to do nothing while the world burns, but the world more or less is doomed without the mane six because seemingly nopony else in the world is capable of properly using the EOH anymore after Celestia and luna screwed up.

 

 

Which I can honestly kind of buy: You have a cosmic keystone force that's needed to protect the world, and you take that force away, things are going to go down the crapper right quick, yeah?

[ManaMinori 4,144]

I personally don't desire a thing where the main protagonist AREN'T the heroes because it's something I've learned to accept not only within this show but within show business in GENERAL. it's quite common people will despise the set heroes to....basically fulfil their role within their own show or movie and save the day?

My only thing is how they basically slammed us confirmation that the magic of friendship, Celestia, Luna, Cadence, every good person with potential to represent their own element or the official elements, every good soul in Equestrian......useless and hopeless without the mane 6.

Up until this point they stress the importance o friendship and how if you can put your mind to it....it can lead to great rewards right? It's understandable that the mane 6 saves the day always though....and how their friendship is more important because they represent the elements and are the main cast. But it was hypocritical to show us all that and then have the audacity to show us worlds without them being a "mane 6" and.how hopeless it would be.

I feel like that hypocrisy never would've even hapoened if not for fan pandering. By making the finale as dark and edgy in all its posible futures, it was easy to glorify the mane 6 as the be all, end all, and crap on everyone else's friendships that obviously don't mean squat to FiM anymore.

 

Never wouldn't happened if finales were more simple, SoL

[Silver Stream. 708]

Honestly, I'm probably in the minority here because I'm perfectly FINE with and ENJOY the world being fucked without the mane six; I rather like the mane six and their importance XD

But Honestly its not so much the mane six's friendship as their using the EOH that's important really. I know they didn't touch on that because it sounds kind of "Evil" for the EOH to do nothing while the world burns, but the world more or less is doomed without the mane six because seemingly nopony else in the world is capable of properly using the EOH anymore after Celestia and luna screwed up.

 

 

Which I can honestly kind of buy: You have a cosmic keystone force that's needed to protect the world, and you take that force away, things are going to go down the crapper right quick, yeah?

To me, yes the mane six are special and without the, a.good.side winning should indeed be difficult and perhaps nearly impossible. But within each alternate future, it seems utterly hopeless therefore rendering the very religion they preach to others become bullshit. And that's what gets me.

 

The EoH aren't even relevant if you really think about it. Let us look back to the Season 4 finale:

 

It was not the elements of harmony that saved the day, it was literally the magic of friendship that was their ultimate victory despite the Tree of Harmony seemingly giving aid to them becoming "buy me" power ponies.

 

Is it not their own words that magic of friendship is the most powerful magic? Above villainy, chaos, even stronger than the combined magic of all ponies and 4 alicorns? Or does that magic only applies to the mane 6 in such a way no other pony is incapable of even having a relationship like theirs to a point that the magic of friendship is awakened.

 

The mane six friendship being the most important and easily powerful is one thing....but making it nonexistent when they are in a universe where they aren't friends is a slap in many faces. Why deny the possible more powerful bonds or stronger representations of the elements before their time or even after their time?

[Manman20x6 359]

It's not even about the Mane 6's friendship, it's specifically about Rainbow Dash. That one pony is the lynchpin holding the world together. Without her, everyone else is screwed.