spoiler Celestia's not incompetent (aka Lilly Peet's being unfair)

[MovieLord101 140]

I'm making this topic out of response to Lilly Peet (aka Jerry Peet)'s recent "Down With Celestia" video where he rips the character a new one over apparent incompetence and stupidity over certain decisions, particularly in relation to her actions in the Season 4 finale. For those of you who wish to view the vid, I've posted it below:

 

 

Honestly, I think Lilly's talking out her ass here. In relation to the Discord and Sombra events, Celestia clearly tasked Twilight and her friends in taking care of those matters as she felt they could handle it. The Tirek incident, however, is something far different: I think Celestia prepared for that FAR more in advance than most people give her credit for.

 

Let me ask a question: if you were over 1,000 years old and have seen attacks and betrayals like this happen many times, wouldn't you plan ahead to counter them? Also, Celestia clearly knew Discord, while reformed, was still very fickle and would definitely fall prey to the machinations of someone like Tirek if such an opportunity happened. That, and Twilight's constant verbal abuse towards Discord during most of that season, deserved or not, certainly furthered this being inevitable. So why would Celestia send HIM of all beings out to find Tirek? Simple: SHE KNEW MOST OF THE EVENTS IN "TWILIGHT'S KINGDOM" WOULD HAPPEN!

 

Now, I don't mean this in a "she can see into the future" sort of way. I mean more as in an "intuition from past experiences" sort of way (i.e. a gut feeling). As mentioned earlier, Celestia clearly knew Discord would side with Tirek if the opportunity arose and needed to act. She probably knew about the Rainbow Powers in the chest from many years back and counted on them being used as a last resort. The only thing Celestia probably wasn't counting on happening was Twilght's tree getting destroyed, as that was merely collateral damage.

 

However, then there comes the controversial (to Lilly Peet, anyway) of Celestia and Luna giving Twilight the rest of the Alicorn magic so that Tirek couldn't take it from them. Many people accuse Celestia of incompetence for this act simply because they think she was acting out of fear and could clearly take Tirek on in a fight if she wanted to. After all, Tirek was nothing more than a jacked-up bully; he wouldn't been able to steal magic that easily if his targets ended up putting up a huge fight like Twilight did, which is why he resorted to blackmail Twilight to forfeit the Alicorn magic when their fight later began to put him on the losing side. But honestly? Celestia had no choice than to do so. Even IF she and Luna fought Tirek instead, he'd eventually find a way to beat them and take their magic anyway. And even if they hid it somewhere else, like say in a certain object or container, he'd still find it and get it far easier.

 

Simply put, it was a no-win situation, and I don't like how certain Bronies, ESPECIALLY Lilly Peet, hold Celestia over the fires for stuff that she couldn't do much about and call her incompetent. I find it very unfair, and considering we barely saw her AT ALL in Season 5, I don't think the writers haven't been given any time at all recently to give Celestia her own episode to counteract any of these accusations. Here's hoping Season 6 addresses these claims!

 

Thoughts?

Edited January 1, 2016 by MovieLord101

[Sunny Fox 5,929]

I could virtually write a book about how incompetent that two-parter made Celestia look.

 

Here's one issue: her giving Twilight all the alicorn magic, based on the idea that Tirek wouldn't know about Twilight being a fourth alicorn princess. All fine, until you realize that Discord (now in league with Tirek) (1) knew full well about Twilight being the fourth alicorn, and (2) can literally sense "magical imbalances", (the very reason she sent him out to find Tirek in the first place!) so putting it all the alicorn magic in Twilight does nothing more than make her a target. Why not send all four alicorn princesses into hiding in different places, and at least making it more difficult for him to get the alicorn magic.

 

Here's another: then she compounds the stupidity by forcing Twilight to keep this all a secret from her friends! You know, those friends Tirek later used as hostages against Twilight? And her logic? "It may put them at risk"! Rather tell Twilight to brief them on developments and have them all hide. Sure, it wouldn't have helped against the point I raised earlier, but it's still better than leaving them in the dark and so open to easy capture by Discord, when they could quite easily have been told not to trust him, as he'd gone over to the villain's side.

 

Want more? I got more... https://mlpforums.com/blog/1083/entry-11487-the-bookend-diaries-%E2%80%93-part-13-season-4-finale-twilight%E2%80%99s-kingdom-heroic-stupidity-strikes-again/

 

And if you want to argue Celestia somehow "knew" all this would happen, you do realize that could excuse virtually anything Celestia does in the show? Easy enough to claim, impossible to prove in hindsight.

 

tl:dr - Lilly Peet is not being unfair and Celestia (in that episode at least) was indeed, incompetent.

[Black Sabbath 2,484]

Simple: SHE KNEW MOST OF THE EVENTS IN "TWILIGHT'S KINGDOM" WOULD HAPPEN!

You sort of make her look even more incompetent by claiming that she knew what was going to happen.  I mean, why didn't she tell anybody else what was going to happen then?

 

She probably knew about the Rainbow Powers in the chest from many years back and counted on them being used as a last resort. 

How would she have know about that? You can't just say that she probably knew about it without providing actual proof. 

Edited January 1, 2016 by Yamet

[MovieLord101 140]

You sort of make her look even more incompetent by claiming that she knew what was going to happen.  I mean, why didn't she tell anybody else what was going to happen then?

 

How would she have know about that? You can't just say that she probably knew about it without providing actual proof. 

Allow me to elaborate: what I meant was that Celestia knew only that Tirek was coming back and basically sent Discord to find him whilst keeping in mind that Discord was very fickle. She was probably HOPING Discord wouldn't side with Tirek, but she probably DID take into account the possibility that he WOULD (and obviously did) and thus the plan to give Twilight all that magic, hoping she would defeat him (bare in mind, she was aware of Twilight's insecurity as a princess). Plus she probably gave them to her anyway because, yes, she knew Tirek was initially unaware of a fourth princess. Simply put, Celestia, like most leaders in conflict, was treating the situation like a game of chess with her subjects and was admittedly hopefully everything turned out like she hoped it would (Discord's heel-turn and Twilight's home going "Boom" not withstanding). And for the most part, it did.

 

To be fair I should've been clearer that, again, Celestia's barely had much focus during recent seasons, especially in Seasons 4 and 5 (mostly Season 5), so the writers having her come off as incompetent in "Twilight's Kingdom" was kinda unintentional. Again, Celestia could REALLY benefit from a solo episode in a future season to rectify these complaints. And I don't mean an episode like "Do Princesses Dream of Magic Sheep?" where she's the center of the conflict, I mean an episode strictly focused on her as a leader WITHOUT having the Mane 6 involved in the main plot or maybe not in the episode at all! As for her knowledge of the Rainbow Powers, it's clear in the Season 4 opener she recognizes it but wants the Mane 6 to figure it out on their own. Again, she's over 1,000 years old. I'm sure she knew what it was. In short, she was basically saying indirectly, in the words of Robert England, "I know what I know, boy, but I'm not telling it!" Whether or not she would figure if it would be used against Tirek was, admittedly, a wild card. Admittedly, I know this post is kinda undermining what I said about the S4 finale above, but I'll just leaving at this: she's over 1,000 years old. Doesn't mean she's not blind or stupid.

 

On a side note, I'm really surprised Celestia never commented AT ALL on the Starlight Glimmer crap during Season 5 whenever we saw her. Having one of her own subjects try and fuck with Equestria's way of life and later the freaking time/space continuum out of spite and childish anger is kind of a big deal! I at first thought i would be a plot point for later on that we never really saw her at all during the premiere or much later on. But then I realized the writers never CONSIDERED her getting involved. Why would Twilight not TELL HER at least?! This is why I was knocking Lilly Peet earlier: he'll bitch and moan about both how Celestia's acting stupid (BS, but that's my opinion) and how bad SG was as a villain (THAT i'll agree with him on), and yet he'll never question why Celestia didn't put a warrant out for SG's arrest! It's not like SG was hiding somewhere; we saw in the finale AND her background cameo in "Amending Fences" that she was completely fine being out in the open despite what she pulled!

 

Also, while we're on the subject of Starlight Glimmer for a second, why was her revenge aimed at TWILIGHT?! Fluttershy was the one who unearthed her lies and exposed her as a fraud; Twilight was just guilty by association! Similarly, when SG wanted Twilight to join her cult, I thought it was because that, once brainwashed, SG would use her to try and dethrone Celestia by waging a civil war between her and the cult. Then Twilight would be the one on the throne as a puppet, with SG secretly the one in power the whole time pulling the strings! THAT would've been ingenious if the cult was really an attempt to stage a coup against Celestia, and would've made the map missions and their locations make more sense. But no, they never went there!

Edited January 1, 2016 by MovieLord101

[Cleverclover 1,525]

I could virtually write a book about how incompetent that two-parter made Celestia look.

 

Here's one issue: her giving Twilight all the alicorn magic, based on the idea that Tirek wouldn't know about Twilight being a fourth alicorn princess. All fine, until you realize that Discord (now in league with Tirek) (1) knew full well about Twilight being the fourth alicorn, and (2) can literally sense "magical imbalances", (the very reason she sent him out to find Tirek in the first place!) so putting it all the alicorn magic in Twilight does nothing more than make her a target. Why not send all four alicorn princesses into hiding in different places, and at least making it more difficult for him to get the alicorn magic.

 

Here's another: then she compounds the stupidity by forcing Twilight to keep this all a secret from her friends! You know, those friends Tirek later used as hostages against Twilight? And her logic? "It may put them at risk"! Rather tell Twilight to brief them on developments and have them all hide. Sure, it wouldn't have helped against the point I raised earlier, but it's still better than leaving them in the dark and so open to easy capture by Discord, when they could quite easily have been told not to trust him, as he'd gone over to the villain's side.

 

Want more? I got more... https://mlpforums.com/blog/1083/entry-11487-the-bookend-diaries-%E2%80%93-part-13-season-4-finale-twilight%E2%80%99s-kingdom-heroic-stupidity-strikes-again/

 

And if you want to argue Celestia somehow "knew" all this would happen, you do realize that could excuse virtually anything Celestia does in the show? Easy enough to claim, impossible to prove in hindsight.

 

tl:dr - Lilly Peet is not a moron (classy way to disagree with him, by the by) and Celestia (in that episode at least) was indeed, incompetent.

 

I can't even begin to tell you how many times I could brohoof this. 

 

Celestia's mind-numbing incompetence in Twilight's Kingdom is one of the reasons why I hate that two-parter so much. Though she had proven to be fairly incompetent in the past, this was the episode where I legitimately began to wonder how the hell Equestria managed to survive a millennium under her rule. 

[Black Sabbath 2,484]

Plus she probably gave them to her anyway because, yes, she knew Tirek was initially unaware of a fourth princess. 

Then why didn't she at least try hide the fact that Twilight was a princess? I mean she could at least have smashed the goddamn windows.

 

As for her knowledge of the Rainbow Powers, it's clear in the Season 4 opener she recognizes it but wants the Mane 6 to figure it out on their own. 

Not really. And even if she did, why would she want them to figure it out on their own? I mean, she could at least have told them that when she knew that Tirek was coming back. 

 

 

Allow me to elaborate: what I meant was that Celestia knew only that Tirek was coming back and basically sent Discord to find him whilst keeping in mind that Discord was very fickle. She was probably HOPING Discord wouldn't side with Tirek, but she probably DID take into account the possibility that he WOULD (and obviously did)

What kind of person would send someone who they knew might side with the enemy to actually fight the enemy.  That's right, an incompetent person.  

 

Also, may I point out how mature it is to call somebody a moron?

[Swifty 249]

The main reason for this video seems to be Nightmare Moon, who can run Equestria and defeats Celestia, imo. I dont blame celest that she lost against Chrysalis in this alternate future, because the other princesses failed the same. I blame the writers that a city state like the Crystal Empire can do war against a big country for many years. And Tirek? Nothing new that she sucked in that finale, so why did Lilly turn from defender to accuser? I blame Nightmare Moon for this lol

Edited January 1, 2016 by Swifty

[MovieLord101 140]

Then why didn't she at least try hide the fact that Twilight was a princess? I mean she could at least have smashed the goddamn windows.

 

Not really. And even if she did, why would she want them to figure it out on their own? I mean, she could at least have told them that when she knew that Tirek was coming back. 

 

 

What kind of person would send someone who they knew might side with the enemy to actually fight the enemy.  That's right, an incompetent person.  

 

Also, may I point out how mature it is to call somebody a moron?

 

 

I took out the moron part in the title earlier. Also, why do my posts keep disappearing?

[Gestum 2,493]

I don't think that she's incompetent, but I don't think that her strength is with dealing with big problems like Tirek.

[Goat-kun 2,498]

Whelp, I got lost at the extremely patriarchal caribou. Such vile misogyny. Quick, somebrony call Captain Sweden!

 

So, Nightmare Moon is best princess cause writers have forgotten to remember photosynthesis is a thing and though it would be another kewl fanservice-y future that will never again be visited cause it was only used as eye candy. Also, how does one conclude that Nightmare Moon wasn’t actually defeated by another villain later in time? And everyone seems to be forgetting the fact that Tirek has been pretty much capable of sucking magic out of unicorns well before he fooled Discord, and that it was actually Celestia who became aware of his presence through a vision.

 

As far as Celestia is concerned, her actions are inseparable from the show’s plot and as weak as the hands that have written the episodes in question. Only if one was to prove that writers have made Celestia the way she is intentionally because of her character and not because of plot that her actions helped propagate, only then could one firmly state that she is indeed incompetent. But if the most probable answer from some Larson guy is: “Lol wot?” then my defense rests as I have no further questions.

 

It’s funny to see that analyzers are still treating MLP as high fantasy instead of your average bedtime story. If you all really need an H-Bro brand to talk about then go and analyze MTG. Unlike MLP, that one actually has a consistent story you can complain about. Trigger warning: it has prominent male characters.

[MovieLord101 140]

I don't think that she's incompetent, but I don't think that her strength is with dealing with big problems like Tirek.

Yeah, I'll admit that. Also, even if she sent Luna to deal with her, she'd probably be acting too much like this to fight back:

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_owB0MlF0tw&feature=youtu.be&t=27s

Edited January 1, 2016 by MovieLord101

[Silver Stream. 708]

Because I'm at work and in a good mood, I'll make this simple


She's a kind ruler with good intentions and does well to keep peace whenever there is no extreme threat. She's a good teacher who uses what other may see as "twisted methods" which have been proven to work especially with Twilight.

But she is an incompetent ruler nonetheless. But I don't blame too much on Celestial. Lets face it....it's for the sake of plots. In every show, the "good character" that is in high power of some sort is ALWAYS incompetent so that the plot can become interesting and DEPENDENT on the main protagonists.


I'll say further after work

Edited January 1, 2016 by Silver Stream.

[Buck Testa 5,503]

Celestia is not incompetent

She is just not equipped to deal with the problems that faces her kingdom anymore. 

 

One thousand years ago when she had backing from the Tree of Harmony and the elements, it gave the Two sisters had the power to handle any foe that stood against Equestria. They won those battles not because of their own power, but because they were bearers of the elements of harmony and had the approval of the Tree. Yes, I said approval, because that thing is most definitely sentient and the one that REALLY calls the shots in Equestria. 

 

After the events of Nightmare moon and Celestia had to use the elements to seal her away, they both lost their connection to the elements, and thus their ability to defend their kingdom greatly diminished. If Chrysalis or Tirek had came after Celestia 1000 years ago they would of been stomped into Tartarus because Celestia had access to magic far more powerful than she ever was, magic from the Tree of Harmony.

 

Even Twilight when she was fully charged with Alicorn magic was just an Equal to Tirek, but when the Tree imbued the mane six with its magic through the keys they were able to bring down Tirek like he was nothing to them.

 

Celestia is eventually going to lose her throne, but it won't be because she's incompetent, its because she has been specifically looking to groom a successor to wield the Elements of Harmony and rule the kingdom in her place, because her sister and her no longer have the power to defend their lands anymore. Twilight is definitely that Successor , or at least one of them.    

[MovieLord101 140]

Celestia is not incompetent

She is just not equipped to deal with the problems that faces her kingdom anymore. 

 

One thousand years ago when she had backing from the Tree of Harmony and the elements, it gave the Two sisters had the power to handle any foe that stood against Equestria. They won those battles not because of their own power, but because they were bearers of the elements of harmony and had the approval of the Tree. Yes, I said approval, because that thing is most definitely sentient and the one that REALLY calls the shots in Equestria. 

 

After the events of Nightmare moon and Celestia had to use the elements to seal her away, they both lost their connection to the elements, and thus their ability to defend their kingdom greatly diminished. If Chrysalis or Tirek had came after Celestia 1000 years ago they would of been stomped into Tartarus because Celestia had access to magic far more powerful than she ever was, magic from the Tree of Harmony.

 

Even Twilight when she was fully charged with Alicorn magic was just an Equal to Tirek, but when the Tree imbued the mane six with its magic through the keys they were able to bring down Tirek like he was nothing to them.

 

Celestia is eventually going to lose her throne, but it won't be because she's incompetent, its because she has been specifically looking to groom a successor to wield the Elements of Harmony and rule the kingdom in her place, because her sister and her no longer have the power to defend their lands anymore. Twilight is definitely that Successor , or at least one of them.    

This was exactly what I was trying to say at the start. The fact Lilly Peet didn't take ANY of that into account in his dumb video shows that he was just sticking his fingers into ears and going "LALALALALALA NOT LISTENING" to guys like us who try and bring stuff like the Elements and the Tree up.

[Buck Testa 5,503]

This was exactly what I was trying to say at the start. The fact Lilly Peet didn't take ANY of that into account in his dumb video shows that he was just sticking his fingers into ears and going "LALALALALALA NOT LISTENING" to guys like us who try and bring stuff like the Elements and the Tree up.

I like Lily, don't get me wrong, and she has a lot of good points on most occasions, this however just isn't one of her strongest arguments she's ever come up with. 

[Black Sabbath 2,484]

Celestia is not incompetent

She is just not equipped to deal with the problems that faces her kingdom anymore. 

 

This was exactly what I was trying to say at the start. The fact Lilly Peet didn't take ANY of that into account in his dumb video shows that he was just sticking his fingers into ears and going "LALALALALALA NOT LISTENING" to guys like us who try and bring stuff like the Elements and the Tree up.

The tree and the elements have nothing to do with this topic. Yes, she's weaker now that she can't use them but that doesn't mean that she gets a pass whenever she makes a stupid decision. 

 

Yes, I said approval, because that thing is most definitely sentient and the one that REALLY calls the shots in Equestria. 

Could you perhaps give us some proof of this? 

Edited January 1, 2016 by Yamet

[Number62 1,247]

Celestia looked like an absolute moron in "Twilight's Kingdom", but what really bothers me in any of the two-parters is that Celestia and Luna are NEVER allowed to help solve the problems in any way. If the show is anything to go by, big villains show up frequently at Equestria, and the authorities are absolutely powerless for whatever reason. This only makes me wonder how Celestia even dealt with such problems before the Mane 6 came together, or why there are suddenly so many villains suddenly showing up, and I doubt it has something to do with the elements of harmony being active again.

 

If Celestia being clairvoyant could somehow excuse her seemingly incompetent actions, then that doesn't mean she (and the writers) should do whatever they want just because things will work out.

 

The portrayal of a character and their stories are only as good as their writers.

[Silver Stream. 708]

Because I'm at work and in a good mood, I'll make this simple

She's a kind ruler with good intentions and does well to keep peace whenever there is no threat. She's a good teacher who uses what other may see as "twisted methods" which have been proven to work especially with Twilight.

But she is an incompetent ruler nonetheless. But I don't blame too much on Celestial. Lets face it....it's for the sake of plots. In every show, the "good character" that is in high power of some sort is ALWAYS incompetent so that the plot can become interesting and DEPENDENT on the main protagonists.

I'll say further after work

Alright to further elaborate. Lily is quite...an analyst. There are some.videos she makes that I genuinely appreciate while others I can't honestly understand.

 

 

Lily has made 2 videos dealing with Celestia:

 

1. How Celestia being some ruthless dictator is total bullshit

 

2. Celestia is an incompetent ruler.incapable of keeping her kingdom safe.

 

 

 

As I said before.....I.have to agree with a little to what Lily says. And it's all thanks to that darn Season 5 finale where Celestia and her strongest forces are HOPELESS against the large dangers.

 

 

I.understand people.keep bringing up the fact she's ruled for.thousands of years and defeated danger in the past, but it was always with the help of the elements. Even so....her long reign proves she ISN'T as incompetent as Lily expresses.

 

She's incompentant now because Twilight and the Mane 5 exist. If Celestia was executed as the perfect ruler who made rational decisions over good ethical ones (such as preserving Discord into stone instead of killing him off to ensure he isn't a further threat to the kingdom) than we wouldn't have a show with the Mane 6 as our heroes.

 

 

In another discussion I made, I stressed how "The Magic of Friendship" is basically bullshit. It is solely the Mane 6 that are heroes with no other hope for another to save the day. That includes Celestia and the others.

 

 

But it is not her fault. Celestia's long and supposedly succeful reign is nothing but a way for the writers to fill plot.holes and create back stories for evil villains. After all....who doesn't appreciate an evil villain back for a round 2?

 

 

Lily, despite the fact that her delivery was rather strong and a bit egotistical, integrated some FAIR points. I feel as though it.could have been delivered in a better way. Instead.of focusing.on how incompetent the writers make Celestia these days, I think it's better to acknowledge WHY she's incompetent and how it degrades her as a leader in general.

 

 

I don't personally see freedom as an empty philosophy, but I am not that type of person to ignore the fact that others have the right and reason.to believe that it is. Nightmare Moon's reign is obviously more peaceful despite the fact she rules with an iron fist and instills fear over Equestria. One cannot blame a person.for preferably wanting an evil structured ruler to reign.over them than a nice wise.one who is incapable.of defnedinf her kingdom or known for.taking too many risks for their liking. 

 

Is Celestia unworthy of her title as ruler of Equestria? Well...there is no real answer to it because it depends on one's perspective on whether or not incompetent rulers are forgivable enough that their pros outweighs their mistakes OR an incompetent ruler poses more as a liability than a leader. 

 

 

And that's my opinion. Apologies for any typos. Its been a long day for me, plus I'm.mobile

Edited January 1, 2016 by Silver Stream.

[Buck Testa 5,503]

The tree and the elements have nothing to do with this topic. Yes, she's weaker now that she can't use them but that doesn't mean that she gets a pass whenever she makes a stupid decision. 

 

Could you perhaps give us some proof of this? 

The tree and the elements have everything to do with this, because they are the things that kept Equestria safe up till this point, working through the sisters.

 

As for proof of sentience, the recent seasons should speak for themselves. Twilight and her friends have been guided by the elements of harmony since before they even met each other, one of them was literally dragged by the horn to a very specific spot just so she would be in the right place to get her cutie mark. It was all entirely staged. Even when it was tampered with by Starlight Glimmer, the cutie map stuck around to help Twilight set things right, and once the timeline was fixed the castle literally snatched up the time spell and took it out of reality so they couldn't use it  and tamper with the Tree of Harmony's authority in Equestria anymore.  

 

Now you could say "well that's just twilights castle, or just the map" But where may I ask did that castle and map come from? The Tree of Harmony, it grew that castle specifically for Twilight and her friends because they are the chosen bearers of harmony. In fact, it doesn't even send Twilight on missions through Celestia anymore, now it has a map where it can point them to go exactly where they need to go. Where do you think that info on "friendship problems" is coming from? Its not Celestia, she's basically already out of the picture at this point, and Luna's just dealing with the sins of her past and such, its working entirely "on its own" and the Mane six blindly trust it.

 

And of course they do; The castle and map came from the Tree of Harmony, their mission is to spread the message of harmony and friendship to places that need it, they are essentially Missionaries of Harmony if you wanna get religious (which I don't but I digress). Twilight puts so much faith in the word of this device that came from the tree of Harmony she barely even leaves her castle unless it tells her to do so. She may be a princess, but the Tree and its personal messaging service to her (aka the map) is her boss.  

Edited January 1, 2016 by Buck Testa

[Black Sabbath 2,484]

The tree and the elements have everything to do with this, because they are the things that kept Equestria safe up till this point, working through the sisters.

No, it's not relevant in the slightest. Do they affect what ever decision Celestia makes? Of course not,  and that means they are irrelevant because they do not effect the decision she makes.  

[Buck Testa 5,503]

No, it's not relevant in the slightest. Do they affect what ever decision Celestia makes? Of course not,  and that means they are irrelevant because they do not effect the decision she makes.  

Its. Absolutely. Relevant. 

She makes decisions the way she does because she doesn't have the elements to fall back on anymore. Her decisions are now based on her own capabilities, not the backing of a super-powerful god-tree. She couldn't deal with Tirek or any of them the way she used to because she doesn't have the elements anymore. Her best choice is  to put her trust in the new bearers of harmony, because she is not strong enough on her own. 

Edited January 1, 2016 by Buck Testa

[Black Sabbath 2,484]

Its. Absolutely. Relevant. 

She makes decisions the way she does because she doesn't have the elements to fall back on anymore. Her decisions are now based on her own capabilities, not the backing of a super-powerful god-tree. She couldn't deal with Tirek or any of them the way she used to because she doesn't have the elements anymore. Her best choice is  to put her trust in the new bearers of harmony, because she is not strong enough on her own. 

It's. Not .Relevant. At. All. 

Yes, she can't fight Discord and such villains herself anymore, but does that mean she gets a pass every time she makes a stupid decision? No, it doesn't. Let's use an those windows with Twilight as an alicorn on them for example, does the tree affect the fact that she completely forgot about them even though she was trying to stop Tirek from learning that there was a fourth princess in any way? 

[BlinkZ 1,151]

note i havn't read the other posts yet.

With that said, I do beilive that the Celestia hate is very, very over blown.  Yeah the logical points make no sesen but in a way Celestia giving Twilight the magic was in a way, an act of last resort.  Yeah three vs one (+oh I don't know thousands of comabined magic from Equetria.) I don't care how godly you put Celstia on that oh som mighty pedistal, she can't fight against something that powerful and win. 

Tirek and Tilight were at a stale mate and Twilight relaly had no alernate plan other thne to kill tirek or something.  I"m pretty sure Celetia was awer discord knew twilight was a princess, the writiers jsut derped there. it happens.    While she ay have visions I don't think it really a comlete pitcure of the future more of a 'what if' future. you know mulitple realiteis and blah blah sci if.

[Buck Testa 5,503]

It's. Not .Relevant. At. All. 

Yes, she can't fight Discord and such villains herself anymore, but does that mean she gets a pass every time she makes a stupid decision? No, it doesn't. Let's use an those windows with Twilight as an alicorn on them for example, does the tree affect the fact that she completely forgot about them even though she was trying to stop Tirek from learning that there was a fourth princess in any way? 

You are not getting what I'm saying here. You are acknowledging that she is not as capable as she was before but you are not seeing the big picture of what that means. 

 

This is not an excuse for Celestia's decisions, this is an explanation. She is simply not equipped to handle the situation anymore, not just in the power department, but because her plans 1000 years ago were probably led by the tree itself. She, despite being a ruler for a very long time, has had backup in all these situations before, backup she no longer has. We are talking about someone who now is out of the resources and advisement they relied on, and we are expecting this person to perform just as effectively and flawlessly as they did when they DID have all of that? 

 

If you were asked to perform a difficult task with a crack team of near clairvoyant expert advisers and an almost limitless budget, you'd probably succeed in that task regardless of your own abilities because you are relying on the resources provided to you to get you through it.  

 

If you were then asked to repeat that success with another equally difficult task WITHOUT the advisers and budget, just by your own abilities, do you REALLY think you'll perform as flawlessly as the first time? Of course not, because your experience level and abilities are far behind where you were at when you had all that backup. 

Edited January 1, 2016 by Buck Testa

[Black Sabbath 2,484]

This is not an excuse for Celestia's decisions, this is an explanation. She is simply not equipped to handle the situation anymore,

And how is that any different than being incompetent?  If the only reason she was able to actually make decent decisions in the past was because she got help by the tree then it only proves that she can't make those kinds of decisions on her own and that she never have been able to.

 

We are talking about someone who now is out of the resources and advisement they relied on, and we are expecting this person to perform just as effectively and flawlessly as they did when they DID have all of that? 

No, I don't expect her to perform just as effectively as she used to. But I do expect her to still be able perform on her own.