Hate crimes (edit: cyberbullying?) against bronies not being addressed properly?

[Dowlphin 459]

In theory this of course applies to various groups, but we all know bronies apparently are the new main focus group for movements/mindsets that felt in need of a new target.

Does it disturb you how history repeats itself and such things can still happen with the same mainstream toleration as in past times in other cases?

Is it 'the power of the internet' where anything you do anonymously is often considered legally not relevant?

Are efforts against this trend just a little meaningless side show, or do you see it develop into the momentum necessary?

 

I speak from own experience how such bullying (which sadly can also occur within the fandom!) can totally kill good spirit. MLP is the one thing that helped me somewhat push back the long depression mainly induced by encounters with people of rotten character, and those tellingly are the ones fighting it vigorously. And without that good spirit the one thing I do with a passion - wellspirited art and entertainment - is being sabotaged, and no matter where I seek something that looks like setting a better standard, as long as it is open to the public, there seems to be the typical erosion of virtue.

 

Just recently, in the Star Citizen forums, there was an outburst of what fully qualifies as banding together to inflict psycho-terror on me based on ad hominem motivations, and after more than a week and people there trying to outdo each other with their incitment and hatred, I'm still waiting for moderators to do anything and wondering whether they have the character to recognize the severity of the incident. Yet another thing I invested love, passion, time and money into to help it succeed, and yet again it becomes unbearable due to the darkness taking hold of it.

 

Nobody should be surprised about people being very closed-up and hesitant to socialize if they went through enough of such downers when the person they had a nice time with and thought was cool reveals themselves as a hate-filled monster.

 

How do you cope? It feels like the only way I can maintain my sanity is by polarizing extremely, by treating people who behave like bacteria like just that so that my little energy is reserved for those who deserve the support.

I used to practice understanding and compassion for them (á la "forgive them, for they do not know what they are doing"), but eventually I realized that so often they very much know what they are doing. In most cases it is, so to speak, a willing pact with the devil out of egoistical motivations, for personal convenience. ('Why have it easy when you can have it easier?') So I respect people's free will and consider it necessary to give adequate feedback based on the role they have chosen. But this leads to personal sacrifice, and there's only so much potential for that left.

And I see it as a general problem that not enough people have the courage to stand up for the values and virtues that are necessary to build a better world, to not endlessly repeat the mistakes of the past.

 

How much of your good spirit and energy is killed by this? If you are lucky enough to have powerful upsides in your life, then I guess it's easy to brush it off. I know that from own experience from the very few times where my spirit was especially powerful. But when there's no powerful upside, maybe because of said negative influences, what can you do?

 

What are your experiences from other forums and such? Do you report it? Is it being treated appropriately?

 

And is there maybe a need to organize more awareness-raising (Which kinda is what I am doing here because events have driven me to that.), or in a different way?

Edited January 27, 2016 by Dowlphin

[Gestum 2,493]

Bronies does not face any hate crimes against them simply because they're bronies. Perhaps a few mean words here and there but nothing that can be considered as a hate crime.

[Aleh 481]

People taking the piss out of you for liking childrens shows isn't a hate crime.
Mean perhaps, but for gods sakes don't devalue legit terms.

[Lulubelle 64]

Hate crimes are not just bullying...when bronies start getting murdered for being bronies, maybe then you can call them that.

 

Bullying is wrong but...it's not the same scale.

[cider float 2,535]

Pfft hate crimes? How about you look up the kind of hate Christians get on a daily basis on the internet where the moderators do absolutely nothing about. 

 

And seriously bronies as the scapegoat is so long ago, get with the times.

[Wind Chaser 4,767]

In its current state, bullying itself isn't a crime until personal harassment becomes involved (doxxing, SWATing, etc, personal crimes that can physically affect your real life, property, and/or privacy). Unfortunately, we don't yet have the legal or enforcement barriers in place to combat cyberbullying effectively, even in many cases in which it does become harassment, and many notorious Internet bullies that deserve to be in jail continue to destroy people's lives on the Internet.

 

Until then, the best defense is just to "hide your powerlevel" as they say. Be careful about where you post and what you post, and try to use different names on different sites. Don't give away too much about yourself and be careful who you trust. Also, it's better to go on sites that are more closely moderated with clear codes of conduct.

Edited January 26, 2016 by Wind Chaser

[Ziggy + Angel + Rain 11,298]

I hope, when contacting the staff on the forum you mentioned, that you didn't portray the bullying you described as a "hate crime"; I doubt that you would have been taken seriously if you did.  I'm not trying to downplay what you went through, but Bronies have not been so widely persecuted or harmed to the extent that would warrant the language you used.

 

How do you cope?

Don't let what others think or say get to you.  It's not always easy, but odds are it simply isn't worth the time and effort to contend with people whose minds aren't going to change about you no matter what you say.  And, ideally, you should be comfortable enough with who you are that you don't have to prove yourself to - or defend yourself against - any of these faceless, anonymous types you'll run into nigh constantly online.

 

And Bronies really don't have to fight (much less attempt to indoctrinate) so-called "haters."  A lot of people will simply start to push even harder the moment they realize they can get a rise out of you.

[cider float 2,535]

In its current state, bullying itself isn't a crime until personal harassment becomes involved (doxxing, SWATing, etc, personal crimes that can physically affect your real life, property, and/or privacy). Unfortunately, we don't yet have the legal or enforcement barriers in place to combat cyberbullying effectively, even in many cases in which it does become harassment, and many notorious Internet bullies that deserve to be in jail continue to destroy people's lives on the Internet.

 

Until then, the best defense is just to "hide your powerlevel" as they say. Be careful about where you post and what you post, and try to use different names on different sites. Don't give away too much about yourself and be careful who you trust. Also, it's better to go on sites that are more closely moderated with clear codes of conduct.

I would be all for cyberbullying but not just cyberbullying defaming and disparaging certain groups.

 

But then again wouldn't the internet allowing people to talk smack about others be a good way to know the true feelings about others? That way in the real world you can make sure to avoid them and give them no contact whatsoever?

 

Or would it be better to have people walking around plastered with fake smiles acting fake to one another as long as they are polite? Couldn't this build up to an catastrophic social explosion in the end? Like someone going down gunning people in the mall?

Edited January 26, 2016 by cider float

[Moved to Elsewhere 11,329]

There's so much I can say about this, but I'll just say that hate crimes and seeing mean things on the internet are not the same thing.

[Ponies4Bronies 394]

How do you cope?

Not much you can do online which is why cyberbullies are marshmallows, they sit behind their monitor and say mean things, things that they wouldn't say to your face because they can't back it up. Ignore them, then they figure it out eventually or leave the forum if the moderators are really that blind.

[Wind Chaser 4,767]

I would be all for cyberbullying but not just cyberbullying defaming and disparaging certain groups.

 

But then again wouldn't the internet allowing people to talk smack about others be a good way to know the true feelings about others? That way in the real world you can make sure to avoid them and give them no contact whatsoever?

The free speech vs. hate speech debate has been ongoing for a while. There's no clear-cut end, but there are some common sense solutions. The main things standing in the way of such solutions are the exact definition of "hate speech", the constitutionality (in the US at least) of restricting hate speech, and whether or not lawmakers and law enforcement will act on such laws effectively.

 

On the one hand, you can justify general "hate" on the Internet with how fickle and meaningless most of it is and how it diverts energy away from things that would affect real life. However, there are numerous incidences in which it can escalate beyond trolling into outright harassment, which is a crime we definitely do not prosecute enough due to how slowly the laws and resources have adapted to the digital age. With the power of the Internet to organize and create mass delusions as easily as spread the truth (just look at politics and conspiracy theories today), we're definitely not thinking enough of the consequences.

 

We get so riled up in the promotion of individual expression on the Internet that we don't educate people enough on how much others can take advantage of it in order to destroy someone. Until tolerance gets a legal upper hand here, the best way to avoid them is not to bait them in the first place.

 

Sure, you can identify idiocy on the Internet by leaving them free to be idiots, but if you leave them alone long enough, the idiots will become smart. Then they will win.

Edited January 26, 2016 by Wind Chaser

[Dowlphin 459]

Bullying is the same as mobbing, just in a different environment, and that's a crime. An issue will be belittled until it grows so much that it cannot be belittled anymore. And it's especially painful for people with foresight having to watch the inevitable unfold.

People have already been killed because of such things, driven into suicide for liking MLP. How much more death and suffering does it require before people wake up?

It is even part of constitutions that people shall not be discriminated based on the things bronies are being discriminated against, often not even based on any reality, but just stereotypes. Whether you talk about a "damn crook-nosed jew" or a "filthy neckbeard", it's the same mindset. The efforts of the past are being disgraced because as soon as the labels change, people think it's something else.

You think treating a "negro" like dirt was an issue in past times? It started being normal, self-evident even that they're not humans. Eventually the KKK together with people of weak courage made it escalate, and only then could a move towards a healthier society be started.

In said forum thread, the mod response followed my most cynical expectations. The offenders get the excuse of having been "baited" (totally not, or maybe I should have posted the same caption with Sponge Bob instead, because apparently antisocials decide social norms), and the whole thing is basically another example of the abundant victim-blaming that is so popular with people too afraid to do what's right. Probably chronic victims of the past.

Bullying by popular minority vote.

 

 

 

Pfft hate crimes? How about you look up the kind of hate Christians get on a daily basis on the internet where the moderators do absolutely nothing about. 

 

And seriously bronies as the scapegoat is so long ago, get with the times.

 

This is so indicative of the problem. First you belittle one offense by finding a more severe example and then you treat this like a trend, which is exactly what bullies do. Please tell me what social group I should treat like dirt these days to go with the times. Hey, I know, I'll just choose you. Would be interesting to find your breaking point and then blame you for your reaction, to add insult to injury.

 

 

Until then, the best defense is just to "hide your powerlevel" as they say. Be careful about where you post and what you post, and try to use different names on different sites. Don't give away too much about yourself and be careful who you trust. Also, it's better to go on sites that are more closely moderated with clear codes of conduct.

 

The obvious problem with this is that this will perpetuate the problem, preventing a resolution. It's like saying homoxsexuals should have been more careful about revealing their preferences, then they wouldn't have had to go through all the hassle they faced. Just wait in the shadows.

This is no way of living. Wherever my passion leads me, it is only a matter of time before scum ruins the whole thing, because they can, because no proper social norms are being established, because most people only care about their own stuff, and many have learned how to pretend they're not.

 

 

I hope, when contacting the staff on the forum you mentioned, that you didn't portray the bullying you described as a "hate crime"; I doubt that you would have been taken seriously if you did.  I'm not trying to downplay what you went through, but Bronies have not been so widely persecuted or harmed to the extent that would warrant the language you used.

 

Don't let what others think or say get to you.  It's not always easy, but odds are it simply isn't worth the time and effort to contend with people whose minds aren't going to change about you no matter what you say.  And, ideally, you should be comfortable enough with who you are that you don't have to prove yourself to - or defend yourself against - any of these faceless, anonymous types you'll run into nigh constantly online.

 

And Bronies really don't have to fight (much less attempt to indoctrinate) so-called "haters."  A lot of people will simply start to push even harder the moment they realize they can get a rise out of you.

 

They don't need feedback to push as hard as they want. Maybe you haven't been through experiences that make you understand, but sometimes you can't just brush it of. It's like you're celebrating Christmas with your family, sitting at the dinner table, and some guy breaks in and takes a big steaming dump all over the food and runs off. Don't tell me you can just 'not let it get to you'. The whole point is that that should not define what is acceptable and what is not. In fact, as I said, my tolerance and strength has been exhausted over the years. Appalled by the world. All I can do is not expand my hatred to those who don't deserve it. But the others can rot in hell. It is time for ME to think about myself for a change. If that makes me a nemesis, then it needs to happen. And I'm far from going as far as others have done as a grave alert signal to society that is still meeting collective denial.

 

 

P.S.: New response from the SC forum mod, while understandably stating that they serve self-interest to just keep some order in the forums, contained plenty of belittling and apologetic language. Hating on the fandom suddenly becomes "not being impressed by it" and counting someone to a group you insult collectively is not personal attack etc.

Even words like "carebear" are officially not acceptable in the forum rules there, so it's disturbing how much leniency they suddenly allow themselves there.

But it's nothing new. One time I got harassed by a psychopath in EVE Online, in part outside of the game, and it was a clear violation of the TOS, and they claimed they can't do anything.

 

 

In effect, my happiness is too pure for this world and not feasible if not paired with a big dose of ignorance that would hurt others who don't deserve it.

If Pinkie Pie ended up in this world, she's probably kill herself. (Fluttershy goes without saying.)

 

 

I will not sacrifice who I am. Some things cannot be unseen. I will not close my eyes as so many others do. That is me and that can lead to tensions with people of less virtue.

If I didn't have that, I would hate myself, and that's not a state worth living.

Edited January 26, 2016 by Dowlphin

[Bendy 1,819]

There's quite a few reasons we are hated.

 

Men liking anything for little girls is considered heresy by quite a few people.  

 

Cloppers... they are pretty much all the ammo they need to justify their hate of you and treat you as unclean, sub-human garbage that damages the moral fabric of society and blah blah blah.  I personally hold no ill will toward Cloppers, but quite a few people will. 

 

The fact.... there are some up messed, twisted bronies out there that done some downright disturbing stuff.

 

Plus.... it is going to be hard to taken seriously in anything if you talk passionately about your love for a show of small cartoon horses.

Edited January 26, 2016 by Bendy

[Dowlphin 459]

There's quite a few reasons we are hated.

Yeah, and it's all collective judgment. And that's always condemnable and thus should be condemned, especially when done with fervor. (My intuition and empathy enable me to sense to a certain degree what motivates someone to do rotten things, so I'm not even applying radical standards, but often people are extremely corrupted through own will.)

 

 

The fact.... there are some up messed, twisted bronies out there that done some downright disturbing stuff.

 

You don't have to tell me. The MLP fandom has given me some of the worst episodes of my life. Things that just hit you right where it hurts, with no feasible defense. Hell, I hardly got past an intro thread in the MyLittleRemix forum because my happiness and good spirit was met with a wave of antisocial hate-spewing and a lack of appropriate action from admin side.

It is difficult to find joy in life when any place where you feel happy is rotting from the inside.

Edited January 26, 2016 by Dowlphin

[Kyoshi Frost Wolf 40,306]

While it is not really a hate crime, Bronies do get harassed A LOT on the internet still. For liking a cartoon show. Even after years, we still get harassed for it. I know some in the fandom like to think this doesn't happen anymore, but it does. For example, Mrrepzion made a video calling us a cancer. Then, in the comments in that video, it was a bunch of people saying that we are sick, we need help, we need to kill ourselves, we are the worst thing in the world. All because we love a goddamn cartoon.

 

While that might not be a hate crime, it is still pretty f***ing terrible and shouldn't be swept under the rug. 

[cider float 2,535]

The difference between hate crimes and cyberbullying is that hate crimes are serious criminal offenses pulled out on people in real life to get in the way of their life as well as threatening their life. Cyberbullying is just words on a screen that hold horrible meanings.

 

If I was to make an example of how cyberbullying would be in real life it would be like someone putting on the notification board at your workplace something disparaging about you... though I would even say real life cyberbullying is worst than something said on the net because that gets in the way of your work and gets to the way other colleagues view you.

[Dowlphin 459]

Mobbing qualifies as general harassment, which is punishable by law. When it is done out of hatred for a group of people, it thus becomes a hate crime.

If this connections is not clearly anchored in the social norms, it definitely should be.

Unless everything is supposed to go on unchanged. Grow a thick skin or die trying. Either is fine with the majority. Because the majority are cowards and allow the bullies to run the system.

 

I was just reminded of a scene from a TV show that I can relate to a lot. It expressed the feelings I had for a long time:

(It's cut off there, sadly. It's missing an important part.)

 

This is related, too, about escapism instead of making ideas manifest:

https://twitter.com/rccone/status/607396408677658624

Edited January 26, 2016 by Dowlphin

[cider float 2,535]

Still haven't heard the leftist media defending Star Trek dorks in high school getting shoved into lockers. Knowing the leftist media they will only defend the physically attractive minorities. 

[cuteycindyhoney 13,283]

Beating someone half to death simply because you suspect they are gay is a hate crime. Calling a Brony gay on a message board is NOT a hate crime. Saying it is demeans the phrase and makes it worthless. Cyber-bullying is a problem, but legally it's just that, Cyber-bullying. As yet, it isn't a hate crime. I'm not all for the hate crime designation anyway. Look at the media. Oh,and I am just using this as an example, it does not represent my beliefs. Please keep that in mind. If you read an article about a group of white mean beating up a black guy, it is labeled a "Hate Crime". If you read an article about a group of black men beating up a white guy, it isn't. The media outlets are doing all they can to inflame the issue about hate crimes. Instead of saying a certain beating was a hate crime and raising the sentence. Raise the sentence across the board! All such beatings are hate crimes. even if everyone involved is the same race.!

 

Sorry if I went a little off track, but the United States is in the process of collapse, and it's really upsetting to me.

[Yamato 1,347]

hate crime

You keep using that phrase. I do not think it means what you think it means...

 

Congress has defined a hate crime as a “criminal offense against a person or property motivated in whole or in part by an offender’s bias against a race, religion, disability, ethnic origin or sexual orientation.” Hate itself is not a crime—and the FBI is mindful of protecting freedom of speech and other civil liberties.

Something tells me that bronies don't meet the legal criteria of a race, religion, ethnicity, or sexual orientation...

[Dowlphin 459]

Sorry if I went a little off track, but the United States is in the process of collapse, and it's really upsetting to me.

To me, too. I have been observing developments in the world for many years now, and that knowledge seems to be mostly just personal torture, not upliftingly useful.

Well, when things don't improve, they need to get worse quicker. It's plan B. Avoids the frog-in-boiling-water problem. (Then again... maybe the frog needs to die. ... If only the innocent didn't have to suffer from the convenience of the guilty.)

Edited January 26, 2016 by Dowlphin

[Alphys Hedge 671]

Bully: use superior strength or influence to intimidate (someone), typically to force him or her to do what one wants.

Mob: crowd around (someone) in an unruly and excitable way in order to admire or attack them.

 

See a contradiction there? Please explain how they are the same.

[JonasDarkmane 19,777]

In my opinion, I do not think that hate crime should really be a thing. I think that crime should be treated as crime, but not be categorized to one's social status. 

 

In any case, hate crime against bronies should be addressed? I see no positive outcome to that. There will always be disagreements and hate in this world, and to have anything called "hate crime against bronies" would most likely result in people getting annoyed (and not just the ones that currently are harassing/trolling us, but those who don't really mind us or really care about us) or even angry. 

 

Besides, having interest in MLP is really just that, having an interest. One can always stop liking MLP and stop calling oneself a brony, while skin color or other genetics is something you are born with and can not change (well, with the technology today, many things can be changed, but still). People will always have an opposing opinion regarding one's interest. 

 

Hope this is a good enough clarification. 

[Limeblossom 482]

I would be all for cyberbullying but not just cyberbullying defaming and disparaging certain groups.

This comes a bit over as something questionable.

[simba86 1,541]

"hate crime"

cyber bullying is a very easy thing to fix, report them,block them, and ignore them don't try to talk to them or argue with them just ignore them completely, change your security setings to private, and if they don't leave you alone or they start calling and harrassing you on the phone, block the number and call the police to report them, we have had several people harass us over the phone and all it usually takes is a quick call to the police to stop it, because the cops will give the bully a call. and if push comes to shove and they just won't stop you can shut down your accounts or just turn off the PC, and if it gets REALLY terrible then SUE them 

and if it happens in real ife then stand up for yourself and be confident,don't listen to them