Is Celestia's age weakening her?

[TheMarkz0ne 962]

I know there are many theories as to why Celestia has done nothing in this show in terms of handling a foe. I understand the show isn't centered on her and that in the original vision from Faust, Twilight was supposed to take Celestia's place. Celestia in every single season, has relied on Twilight's resolve and could it be something as serious as, she is so old that her  powers are fading? 

 

Celestia couldn't handle Nightmare Moon in season 1, the season 5 finale is canon proof from the show Nightmare Moon was stronger than her sister.

 

Discord was too much for Celestia and Luna back then, and I can assure you Discord would have been 10x worse in Celestia's current age. 

 

Chrysalis defeated Celestia with a boost of love from TWO ponies. I know power draining is cheating, but base Chrysalis was doing a decent job at holding that beam struggle. We can assume based on logic that the season 5 finale Chrysalis became light years above Celestia's power with all the love she absorbed over time while the resistance dwindled.

 

I know I am cheating with Sombra, since it was a part of Twilight's test to become an alicorn princess, but Celestia has showed no sign of being able to handle Sombra 

 

Celestia knew she couldn't handle Tirek and passed on her magic temporarily to Twilight.

 

Celestia 

Luna

Chrysalis

Sombra

The Sirens

 

These five in my opinion are incredibly old and they are relics from an era that has passed. Twilight even mentioned how important she and her friends are important to Equestria, this means that Celestia can no longer protect her species and that is why she raised future rulers, like Cadence, Sunset Shimmer and Twilight Sparkle, because even Celestia knows her time is over.

Edited April 14, 2016 by TheMarkz0ne

[Meson Bolt 2,647]

Well, you have to understand that in Season 1, Celestia was raising and lowering both the sun and the moon every day, a task that proved difficult for even super-alicorn Twilight to do. That kind of strain probably explains her dampened power (or I guess lack of power entirely) for the entirety of Season 1.

 

She's also been shown to raise the sun every single day, as shown in Season 4 Episode 2, which probably takes a massive amount of power and leaves her drained for the rest of the day. If she didn't need to do this task, I bet she'd have stood a chance against Chrysalis.

 

However, when it came to Discord and Tirek, she wasn't able to handle them because she wasn't meant to handle them. It's implied that only the Elements of Harmony could defeat them, and although Celestia used the Elements in the past, the responsibility for using the Elements was passed on to Twilight and her friends, which I think is what Faust meant when she said "Twilight is supposed to take Celestia's place". I don't think she meant "take her place as the ruler of Equestria", or "take her place as the sun bearer", but rather "take her place as the guardian/user of the Elements of Harmony".

 

But then Faust left, Hasbro wanted merchandising and brought us Rainbow Power, et cetera. Still, I hope I've got my point across.

[TheMarkz0ne 962]

Well, you have to understand that in Season 1, Celestia was raising and lowering both the sun and the moon every day, a task that proved difficult for even super-alicorn Twilight to do. That kind of strain probably explains her dampened power (or I guess lack of power entirely) for the entirety of Season 1.

 

She's also been shown to raise the sun every single day, as shown in Season 4 Episode 2, which probably takes a massive amount of power and leaves her drained for the rest of the day. If she didn't need to do this task, I bet she'd have stood a chance against Chrysalis.

 

However, when it came to Discord and Tirek, she wasn't able to handle them because she wasn't meant to handle them. It's implied that only the Elements of Harmony could defeat them, and although Celestia used the Elements in the past, the responsibility for using the Elements was passed on to Twilight and her friends, which I think is what Faust meant when she said "Twilight is supposed to take Celestia's place". I don't think she meant "take her place as the ruler of Equestria", or "take her place as the sun bearer", but rather "take her place as the guardian/user of the Elements of Harmony".

 

But then Faust left, Hasbro wanted merchandising and brought us Rainbow Power, et cetera. Still, I hope I've got my point across.

Are you talking about Chrysalis in season 2? Or 'Empress Chrysalis' from season 5? Either Chrysalis was whipping Celestia and Luna telling them to raise the sun and moon like slaves, or Chrysalis stole their powers some how. 

 

I know that Tirek and Discord are on another tier. Chrysalis, Nightmare Moon, Sombra and Adagio Dazzle are a tier below those two.

[SFyr 1,982]

I kinda back the theory that the elements are the central, greatest power in Equestria, and Celestia/Luna no longer are the bearers of them as they once were. If memory serves, there was some mention of Celestia losing her grasp on the elements in relation to having to banish her sister Luna--I think this was the pivotal moment that her power greatly diminished. She has proven to be a very powerful alicorn for sure... but she is no longer a bearer of the greater power of the elements, nor the fallen Luna, who betrayed many of the core values of the elements of harmony.

 

I think it especially fits if Luna was the last big-bad to come before the long era of peace. Luna and Celestia used the elements to defeat discord, and probably did so for Sombra, or any other major villian, even Nightmare Moon herself.

 

Now that the mane 6 are the bearers... they're understandably higher up in power I think.

 

EDIT: Also, I think Celestia was not able to purge Nightmare Moon like the mane 6 could, because she was half the total elemental bearers fighting the other elemental bearer.

[Buck Testa 5,503]

I know there are many theories as to why Celestia has done nothing in this show in terms of handling a foe. I understand the show isn't centered on her and that in the original vision from Faust, Twilight was supposed to take Celestia's place. Celestia in every single season, has relied on Twilight's resolve and could it be something as serious as, she is so old that her  powers are fading? 

 

Celestia couldn't handle Nightmare Moon in season 1, the season 5 finale is canon proof from the show Nightmare Moon was stronger than her sister.

 

Discord was too much for Celestia and Luna back then, and I can assure you Discord would have been 10x worse in Celestia's current age. 

 

Chrysalis defeated Celestia with a boost of love from TWO ponies. I know power draining is cheating, but base Chrysalis was doing a decent job at holding that beam struggle. We can assume based on logic that the season 5 finale Chrysalis became light years above Celestia's power with all the love she absorbed over time while the resistance dwindled.

 

I know I am cheating with Sombra, since it was a part of Twilight's test to become an alicorn princess, but Celestia has showed no sign of being able to handle Sombra 

 

Celestia knew she couldn't handle Tirek and passed on her magic temporarily to Twilight.

 

Celestia 

Luna

Chrysalis

Sombra

The Sirens

 

These five in my opinion are incredibly old and they are relics from an era that has passed. Twilight even mentioned how important she and her friends are important to Equestria, this means that Celestia can no longer protect her species and that is why she raised future rulers, like Cadence, Sunset Shimmer and Twilight Sparkle, because even Celestia knows her time is over.

It should be noted that Celestia didn't do that by her own power, but by the power of the elements of Harmony. Without the Elements, she would of lost all those battles. She lost the elements when she sealed her sister in the moon, probably because of the disharmony between them at the time, or because the Tree of Harmony simply took it away from them. 

 

The real power house of this series isn't Luna or Celestia or any of the alicorns for that matter, its The Tree Of Harmony that is basically the One Punch Man of that world. Think about it, its FRUIT is capable of defeating Tirek in one hit when he was wielding all the magic the entire pony race possesses.

 

In other words, the Tree of Harmony could literally one shot all of Equestria if it wanted too. 

 

Celestia could of gotten weaker over time, but the real power that defeated those threats was the Tree of Harmony through its arbiters of the elements. 

[Meson Bolt 2,647]

Are you talking about Chrysalis in season 2? Or 'Empress Chrysalis' from season 5? Either Chrysalis was whipping Celestia and Luna telling them to raise the sun and moon like slaves, or Chrysalis stole their powers some how. 

 

...What? Uh, I don't recall Chrysalis doing anything like that... are you sure you have your facts straight?

 

I know that Tirek and Discord are on another tier. Chrysalis, Nightmare Moon, Sombra and Adagio Dazzle are a tier below those two.

 

I think you misunderstood my post -- let me reiterate:

 

Out of these six opponents, three of them were defeated by the Elements of Harmony (Nightmare Moon, Discord, and Tirek). Two of them were defeated by powers of the Crystal Empire (Sombra and Chrysalis), and Adagio doesn't really count since she was banished long before Celestia rose to power.

 

Before Twilight Sparkle showed up on the scene, Celestia had a lot of jobs -- she ruled Equestria, raised and lowered the sun and moon every day for 1000 years, and (implied) defended Equestria from evil with the Elements of Harmony. Obviously she's working far more than she probably should be, so she wouldn't be strong enough to counter Nightmare Moon on her own, which is why she tasked her prize student Twilight to do so.

 

As for Discord, Celestia and Luna had defeated him previously, but only with the Elements of Harmony. Since Celestia saw how well Twilight and her friends used the Elements against Nightmare Moon, she saw fit to let them use the Elements against him instead of herself and Luna. Same thing happened with Tirek 2 seasons later.

 

My point is this -- Celestia has a LOT of work to do, and she's not infinitely powerful, so obviously she'd lose a few fights. She's not meant to be a fighter, she's meant to be a ruler. Likewise, Twilight and company were chosen to defend Equestria, not to rule it.

 

(Also I don't get where the idea of "tiers" comes from. This is MLP, not DBZ)

[TheMarkz0ne 962]

...What? Uh, I don't recall Chrysalis doing anything like that... are you sure you have your facts straight?

 

 

I think you misunderstood my post -- let me reiterate:

 

Out of these six opponents, three of them were defeated by the Elements of Harmony (Nightmare Moon, Discord, and Tirek). Two of them were defeated by powers of the Crystal Empire (Sombra and Chrysalis), and Adagio doesn't really count since she was banished long before Celestia rose to power.

 

Before Twilight Sparkle showed up on the scene, Celestia had a lot of jobs -- she ruled Equestria, raised and lowered the sun and moon every day for 1000 years, and (implied) defended Equestria from evil with the Elements of Harmony. Obviously she's working far more than she probably should be, so she wouldn't be strong enough to counter Nightmare Moon on her own, which is why she tasked her prize student Twilight to do so.

 

As for Discord, Celestia and Luna had defeated him previously, but only with the Elements of Harmony. Since Celestia saw how well Twilight and her friends used the Elements against Nightmare Moon, she saw fit to let them use the Elements against him instead of herself and Luna. Same thing happened with Tirek 2 seasons later.

 

My point is this -- Celestia has a LOT of work to do, and she's not infinitely powerful, so obviously she'd lose a few fights. She's not meant to be a fighter, she's meant to be a ruler. Likewise, Twilight and company were chosen to defend Equestria, not to rule it.

 

(Also I don't get where the idea of "tiers" comes from. This is MLP, not DBZ)

I said tiers because Discord can bend reality and Tirek is the devil.. Of course those two are more of a threat than the other villains. And my comment about Chrysalis... I made a guess about what she did in the alternate time line because those scenes were short.

[Meson Bolt 2,647]

I said tiers because Discord can bend reality and Tirek is the devil.

 

Yes, Discord can bend reality, but his only weakness (aside from a souped-up Tirek) is the Elements of Harmony. Him being powerful has nothing to do with Celestia's power diminishing with age, it just means he's powerful.

 

And no, Tirek is not the devil. Tirek is Tirek, I don't know where the "devil" thing came from... >.>

[TheMarkz0ne 962]

It should be noted that Celestia didn't do that by her own power, but by the power of the elements of Harmony. Without the Elements, she would of lost all those battles. She lost the elements when she sealed her sister in the moon, probably because of the disharmony between them at the time, or because the Tree of Harmony simply took it away from them. 

 

The real power house of this series isn't Luna or Celestia or any of the alicorns for that matter, its The Tree Of Harmony that is basically the One Punch Man of that world. Think about it, its FRUIT is capable of defeating Tirek in one hit when he was wielding all the magic the entire pony race possesses.

 

In other words, the Tree of Harmony could literally one shot all of Equestria if it wanted too. 

 

Celestia could of gotten weaker over time, but the real power that defeated those threats was the Tree of Harmony through its arbiters of the elements. 

You got that scene in my mind now, where Tirek shoots a magic beam at the Rainbow Powered Mane 6 and his blast just laughably bounces off like a pesky bug. I still find that scene funny 

[Buck Testa 5,503]

You got that scene in my mind now, where Tirek shoots a magic beam at the Rainbow Powered Mane 6 and his blast just laughably bounces off like a pesky bug. I still find that scene funny 

The Tree of Harmony truly is an indomitable force of nature, and I'm fairly certain its the thing that orchestrated the mane six getting their simultaneous cutie marks in the first place. 

[TheMarkz0ne 962]

The Tree of Harmony truly is an indomitable force of nature, and I'm fairly certain its the thing that orchestrated the mane six getting their simultaneous cutie marks in the first place. 

I have a realllly bad idea. Imagine if the show ended with Fausti-corn showing herself to her creations and the main characters get depressed that their only reason for existing is too entertain small children. Lol I'm horrible!

[ManaMinori 4,144]

Well, you have to understand that in Season 1, Celestia was raising and lowering both the sun and the moon every day, a task that proved difficult for even super-alicorn Twilight to do. That kind of strain probably explains her dampened power (or I guess lack of power entirely) for the entirety of Season 1.

 

She's also been shown to raise the sun every single day, as shown in Season 4 Episode 2, which probably takes a massive amount of power and leaves her drained for the rest of the day. If she didn't need to do this task, I bet she'd have stood a chance against Chrysalis.

 

However, when it came to Discord and Tirek, she wasn't able to handle them because she wasn't meant to handle them. It's implied that only the Elements of Harmony could defeat them, and although Celestia used the Elements in the past, the responsibility for using the Elements was passed on to Twilight and her friends, which I think is what Faust meant when she said "Twilight is supposed to take Celestia's place". I don't think she meant "take her place as the ruler of Equestria", or "take her place as the sun bearer", but rather "take her place as the guardian/user of the Elements of Harmony".

 

But then Faust left, Hasbro wanted merchandising and brought us Rainbow Power, et cetera. Still, I hope I've got my point across.

the elements don't give her power, probably when she was still in harmony with Luna, maybe their frendship boosted the element of magic, but according to the Journal of the Two sisters, its the raising the sun and moon that replentish an alicrn's magic. And since that's what they do, it's not a question of depleted magic.

 

So it must be something else weakening them

[Number62 1,247]

She is screwed over by a power far greater than her own: that of a storyteller. Give these scenarios to another set of storytellers, and those will look different no matter how similar they sound. In the hands of a competent storyteller, Celestia will as competent as her storyteller, i.e. she will be given an important and genuinely helpful role even if she isn't the main character. No "too old" or some similar and random bullshit excuse will be implied.

[Phanact 333]

Who says shes old? I dunno, she might be pretty young comparatively, like compared to such characters as Discord and others.  

[Buck Testa 5,503]

She is screwed over by a power far greater than her own: that of a storyteller. Give these scenarios to another set of storytellers, and those will look different no matter how similar they sound. In the hands of a competent storyteller, Celestia will as competent as her storyteller, i.e. she will be given an important and genuinely helpful role even if she isn't the main character. No "too old" or some similar and random bullshit excuse will be implied.

As much as I hate to agree with something like this, I do in this case. The writers really give characters who aren't the mane six the shaft. Spike is another character who could of been written so much better in the hands of a different writer. 

[Steel Accord 6,658]

She is screwed over by a power far greater than her own: that of a storyteller. Give these scenarios to another set of storytellers, and those will look different no matter how similar they sound. In the hands of a competent storyteller, Celestia will as competent as her storyteller, i.e. she will be given an important and genuinely helpful role even if she isn't the main character. No "too old" or some similar and random bullshit excuse will be implied.

 

That's Doylist reasoning not Watsonian reasoning.

[Buck Testa 5,503]

That's Doylist reasoning not Watsonian reasoning.

OMG I love you. I never had a name for this before

[Steel Accord 6,658]

Pretty much what everyone's saying Celestia is not "weakening" because of age, her strength was more because she was in Harmony with her sister, her best friend. The Tree of Harmony or maybe more metaphysically "Harmony" itself, functioning pretty close to a divinity, granted her the tools she needed to perform her duty to protect her people. Now though, her time as protector is coming to a close and she knows this, she knew it from the time she banished Luna. It's got nothing to do with "how powerful" she is, it's simply that the world can't remain stagnant and remain healthy and harmonious. So a new guard must be put in place.

 

Also what makes one "powerful" also isn't just the ability to win fights. I mean the POTUS is one of the most powerful people on the planet, but whether the office holder could or could not win a drag out brawl varies greatly.

OMG I love you. I never had a name for this before

 

I'm a writer, it is my trade.

[Justin_Case001 4,860]

Celestia = Galadriel

 

The time of the Sisters is ending.  Their strength wanes, and soon they will take the last ship out of Middl...I mean, Equestria.

 

In all seriousness, I have to agree with .  I think out of all the speculation and headcanons that arise from this show, the one area that sort of falls flat is this very topic.  Speculation as to why Celestia seems rather...well...useless, doesn't really work due to how the writers have handled her.  In other words, this is the one question regarding lore that can't, imo, be explained away within the context of the FIM universe.  Celestia shouldn't be as she is.  She should be a stronger, more important character, even if she doesn't have much screentime.  The diminishment of the Sisters, particularly Celestia, is by far my biggest disappointment of the show.  The writers just let her fade away, though I don't think this was their specific intention.  They didn't need to keep her front and center to make her important.  All they needed to to was have Twilight get advice from her now and then; an answer that Twilight and her friends can't find.  Instead, Twilight bypasses Celestia every chance she gets.  Example:  The Cutie Re-Mark: Sombra universe.  Twilight says, "I don't think we can figure this out on our own.  Let's go find our friends."  Twilight made no attempt to find Celestia.  The thought didn't even occur to her.  From Twilight's perspective, who would have been more likely to know something about what was going on?  Her five ~18-20 year old friends, or the several thousand year old ruler of Equestria, who has seen and experienced more than Twilight could imagine?  And yet, due to the writer's choices, Celestia's existence is usually forgotten, and her power made useless.  It doesn't seem right to explain this sort of thing with a FIM universe contextual headcanon.  Rather, I say it's because the writers, much as I usually love them, can sometimes be a bunch of grade-A nincompoops.

[Swifty 249]

Oh, it's one of these threads again.

 

Without reading the thread, i'm sure that all the fans of Luna, Nightmare Moon and Chrysalis already jumped on it to drag SUNBUTT through the mud.

 

Yeah, yeah. She is soooo much older than Luna. She is soooo weak and senile. Why didn't she die already? Maybe in the movie. Fingers crossed. Yada Yada Yada.

 

I totally agree with Number107 here and i really start to detest the writers for what they have done with their obvious bias and fan pandering.

 

This sounds pathetic? Sorry, i am. Deal with it. lulz.

[cider float 2,536]

Celestia probably established most of her power and authority when she and Luna wielded the Elements of Harmony. 

[TheMarkz0ne 962]

Oh, it's one of these threads again.

 

Without reading the thread, i'm sure that all the fans of Luna, Nightmare Moon and Chrysalis already jumped on it to drag SUNBUTT through the mud.

 

Yeah, yeah. She is soooo much older than Luna. She is soooo weak and senile. Why didn't she die already? Maybe in the movie. Fingers crossed. Yada Yada Yada.

 

I totally agree with Number107 here and i really start to detest the writers for what they have done with their obvious bias and fan pandering.

 

This sounds pathetic? Sorry, i am. Deal with it. lulz.

I actually want Celestia do do something though, I know she cant be invincible but it is the current leader of Equestria for crying out loud. I am not even a big fan of her and I actually want an episode that glorifies her.

[Sonic5421 423]

After seeing how Celestia has been given little screen time in the last couple of seasons, I don't think her magic and strength is weakening due to her age.

 

To recall a passage from The Journal of the Two Sisters, by performing their duties with raising and lowering the Sun and Moon, Celestia and Luna are revitalized by them, and being that naturally-born Alicorns age slower than the other three races, I don't think their magic is waning due to age.

 

Sure, they could only do so much against the Frozen North's blizzard because of its resistance against Alicorn magic, but that shows that they are still willing to put their own lives on the line to protect their people.

 

Even if age is catching up to the Royal Sisters, and especially Celestia, I don't think they would be getting weaker as they got older. Plus, it would break the hearts of everyone who loves Celestia and Luna if they were to ever be written out of the show.

I actually want Celestia do do something though, I know she cant be invincible but it is the current leader of Equestria for crying out loud. I am not even a big fan of her and I actually want an episode that glorifies her.

You're not the only one. I want a Celestia episode as well.

[cmarston1 5,953]

Well it would be an actual explanation for how Celestial is pretty much useless when it comes to major events lately.

[Number62 1,247]

That's Doylist reasoning not Watsonian reasoning.

 

Celestia = Galadriel

 

The time of the Sisters is ending.  Their strength wanes, and soon they will take the last ship out of Middl...I mean, Equestria.

 

In all seriousness, I have to agree with .  I think out of all the speculation and headcanons that arise from this show, the one area that sort of falls flat is this very topic.  Speculation as to why Celestia seems rather...well...useless, doesn't really work due to how the writers have handled her.  In other words, this is the one question regarding lore that can't, imo, be explained away within the context of the FIM universe.  Celestia shouldn't be as she is.  She should be a stronger, more important character, even if she doesn't have much screentime.  The diminishment of the Sisters, particularly Celestia, is by far my biggest disappointment of the show.  The writers just let her fade away, though I don't think this was their specific intention.  They didn't need to keep her front and center to make her important.  All they needed to to was have Twilight get advice from her now and then; an answer that Twilight and her friends can't find.  Instead, Twilight bypasses Celestia every chance she gets.  Example:  The Cutie Re-Mark: Sombra universe.  Twilight says, "I don't think we can figure this out on our own.  Let's go find our friends."  Twilight made no attempt to find Celestia.  The thought didn't even occur to her.  From Twilight's perspective, who would have been more likely to know something about what was going on?  Her five ~18-20 year old friends, or the several thousand year old ruler of Equestria, who has seen and experienced more than Twilight could imagine?  And yet, due to the writer's choices, Celestia's existence is usually forgotten, and her power made useless.  It doesn't seem right to explain this sort of thing with a FIM universe contextual headcanon.  Rather, I say it's because the writers, much as I usually love them, can sometimes be a bunch of grade-A nincompoops.

I'm not against finding in-universe explanations, but I can't be bothered when something as dumb as this persists, especially for this long. How many more excuses can be made before the excuses and stories lose credibility? Actually, they've already lost credibility to me for this reason.

 

Even if she has gotten weaker over time, she still has plenty of raw magic (and knowledge due to her lifespan), so she wouldn't/shouldn't just sit on the sidelines and let everypony else solve some big problem. She'd still try to figure out a way to help, or make some other contribution to the solution. What was given in "The Crystalling" was far too little (so much so that it might as well have been nothing), especially considering how long her uselessness has lasted.