Has the newly discovered Pinkie clone earned the right to live?

[Unlikeable Pony 2,698]

This dilemma reminds me of an episode of 'The Outer Limits' called 'Think like a dinosaur'.

 

Honestly, that type of teleportation strikes me as insane; if it was common knowledge that that's how Teleportation worked, absolutely NO human being would ever use that kind of tech.

 

Hmm....it could happen. Man this is like some super good fanfic fuel right here. The Clones of Pinkie trying to find a place in the world after their kind was utterly massacred by the now Princess of Friendship. 

 

 

 

Just waiting for IDW to decide to make Fanon canon, like They did with Sombra when they made his story. (Him surviving as a horn, him not being the real threat but there being an evil being that corrupted him...)

[twiia 1,843]

I think the other pinkie likely was a changeling. So it probably shouldn't have the right to live

Edited May 22, 2016 by Fire Twii (Icy Wind)

[Unlikeable Pony 2,698]

I think the other pinkie likely was a changeling. So it probably shouldn't have the right to live

#black pony lives matter

Edited May 22, 2016 by Unlikeable Pony

[twiia 1,843]

#black pony lives matter

well if its an evil changeling as Pinki, tthen it shouldn't hav the right to live

[Truffles 2,033]

I don't like the term "clone", personally. They're copies. Clones are a product of science, the Pinkie copies are a product of magic.

 

PS - Yes, I know it doesn't change anything, but I have to keep my Pedant's License somehow...

 

LOL - You're right! From now on I think I'll use the terms "copy" and "duplicate" too!

 

 

My headcanon is that it is actually a Changeling ... the clone joke was placed there to draw us off the writers scent.

 

I'm hoping it's a copy, just because that is more intriguing. We already know the Changelings are up to stuff again from the premiere and will figure prominently by the end of the season.

 

I have an alternate theory - only Pinkie and her copy are real (well, real as real is for a copy) and all the other ponies in the diner are Changelings. The real reason that copy looks anxious is because she - made from magic - can see through Changeling disguise magic and is unnerved seeing Pinkie talking to one of them. Kind of like Roddy Piper in "They Live" (hello there, @@CITRUS KING46 =) )

 

Maybe the Pinkie copy is following the real Pinkie around undercover because she's like a sister to her, so she's trying to protect her from these Changelings she keeps seeing? Dun dun dunnnn...

 

 

I like to think that the clones began as non-sentient but COULD develop sentience if given time.

 

Like if you had a robot with a learning mode enabled: At the start, its non-sentient and destroying it isn't evil because its still an unfeeling machine. But, given time and the proper circumstances, it COULD learn to think and feel and become truly sentient.

 

Of course, then there's the debate over whether a being capable of becoming sapient on their own and not allowed to is just as bad as ending the existence of one that already has. (cough...abortion)  It still boils down to a philosophical debate over the true nature of life, death, and the meaning of the universe, though I suppose for a fantasy world the powers-that-be over the show could simply come down and say what reality is for these characters - even the ones created from magic - when they are destroyed.

 

 

Honestly I thought that dancer was a Pinkie clone trying to hide away.

 

Wow, I didn't even notice it looked like her! (Mainly because I'm watching this episode on a 13 inch monitor 8 feet away from my eyes, lol)

 

Even her eye color is the same as Pinkie! And Jim on Twitter is being very coy as usual as to whether or not that dancer is a Mirror Pool copy of Pinkie. The only thing that's wrong is her cutie mark, but she might have simply painted over her mark to keep it from being noticed as identical to Pinkie's.

 

 

So the Pinkie that pissed everyone off when she made Fluttershy cry in Filly Vanilli was a clone?

 

Headcanon Accepted!

 

LOL! I would love that. It certainly would help explain some of Pinkie's less-than-stellar moments. Although she was still a jerk when she hogged all the cider from Rainbow Dash, and that was in S2 - before all of the copies appeared.

 

 

That scene was a mix of hilarious dark comedy all again. Well, it was more like referencing 'too many pinkie pies' but seriously. WHAT IS THAT OTHER PINKIE DOING THERE?!

 

I'm not bothered by this at all though. I was just thinking about whether this was going to be a visual gag (which would suck). Or if they were legitimately acknowledging that there is a possibility of a Pinkie clone that didn't get sent back to the mirror pool.

 

In response to OP about 'earning the right' I feel that this would be a very complex matter. I'm too tired to look into it on a technical level, but the point would be, YES, let her roam free. If she's escaped and we've never noticed, and if she's really sapient, THEN LET HER RUN FREE. Away from the murderering princess of Friendship. 

 

And then we can have an episode about this clone's self-awareness, existential-crisis, enlightenment

 

Well I can hope at least. Hey they brought it up.

 

Like I said in my OP, I would be jubilant if they revisit this Pinkie copy in a possible S7, and they tackle the issues I brought up about letting her live or sending her back, but it may be too heavy for a Y-7 show, even though they did give us Luna mentally cutting herself...

 

I suppose they could fit it in if she was a subplot in another story, and by helping the Mane 6 defeat something or solve a problem, she earns the right to exist. That's something that wouldn't make kids go "huh" since they get that kind of justice and fair treatment. Like I said above, if the copies can see through Changeling magic, they might come in real handy around the end of this season...

 

 

The point I'm eventually meandering towards is that the clone in Manehattan is probably a direct copy of the original, (possibly the first), and thus, is fairly intelligent.

...

I wasn't really aware that there were any ethical dilemmas in the fandom surrounding the destruction of the clones, but in my opinion, it just wouldn't have been acceptable in any way to leave that many (very stupid) Pinkies running around, most of them causing havoc.

 

I agree that this copy is likely the first one Pinkie created. From what I remember of that episode (I think I shall be watching it again tonight at some point!) that one seemed to have at least some amount of reasoning built into her - certainly enough that she figured out she could create more clones of herself.

 

Before I wrote this topic, I went back and reread the discussion of "Too Many Pinkie Pies" and I thought I saw you had brought this topic up of the ethics involved in destroying the copies, but I admit I flipped through those messages pretty quickly so I might be mistaken! There was a few others that brought up the possibility that Twilight was murdering all of them, however.

 

Thinking back even farther, I just remembered an old "Calvin and Hobbes" story arc where he created several copies of himself - for much the same reasons as Pinkie did! His resolution to the problem was to turn them all into worms (which seems horrible, but in fact for a bunch of Calvins was actually pretty cool, lol.)

 

So he didn't have to destroy them like Twilight did. I imagine Twilight (who was learning transmogrification of all things in the same episode (is that episode a hidden nod to C&H - I wonder now?!) could have done the same thing and turned the Pinkies all into the "ultimate party animals" (whatever species that may be) so they could live the rest of their lives having fun and not hurting anypony else. But that might have been too similar to the comic!

 

 

Not that MLP would tackle such a thing but it would make a great episode for Twilight to discover some kind of dangerous spacial rift growing in the Everfree Forest and to ascertain that it was caused by the existence of the Pinkie copy, and so they have to seek her out and balance the equation, but naturally, when the meet her and find out how much she has grown intellectually and emotionally, Twilight finds that she can't simply banish her and has to find some other way.

 

I could definitely see Twilight's initial reaction to be along the lines of, "Aha! One that got away! Hold still now while I send you back to the pool!" but maybe Pinkie steps in herself and feels sorry for her counterpart, and eventually convinces Twi to see there's more going on here than a bunch of magic running loose.

 

 

Gods, this is like what happened to Peter Parker once.

 

Dark question: What if the accepted Pinkie is a clone...and THAT OTHER ONE'S the original Pinkie?

 

I don't think it happened, but I was shocked a bit by how unfazed Twilight was back in that episode about accidentally ending the real Pinkie's life.

 

 

I don't understand the mindset that people have about Twilight straight up murdering the clones. Firdt, she said s sh e was sending them back into the mirror pool. And we saw this, with the pink energy going back into it, with the clones.

 

I think the issue is the organization of the magic in the Mirror Pool is an unknown. Even if they are sent back there and not explicitly "killed," they lose all of their life experiences and just become part of the energy of the pool. So even if a new clone is created, the old one won't have any memories or any sense of having existed before. Basically as a sapient being they cease to exist, even if the energy continues on in another form.

[Deae Rising Shine~ 55,413]

Mayby it's just Equestria Girls Pinkie, finally wanting to see her pony self?

[That Guy with the CMB 5,873]

Well, there's sad music in the background as I read that and as I type this, so I'd have to say it has earned the right to live. c:

[20% Cooler Than Cake 161]

Of course, then there's the debate over whether a being capable of becoming sapient on their own and not allowed to is just as bad as ending the existence of one that already has. (cough...abortion)

 

If that were true, then if a couple that is originally planning to have kids changes their minds, they just committed murder.  Personally, I think that what Twilight did in Too Many Pinkie Pies was perfectly acceptable, as all but perhaps the first two Pinkie copies created had more than just a scrap of sapience, and the two that were more intelligent were smart enough to escape and move to Manehatten.  The other option was to let them live, which would cause chaos, especially since it could take perhaps years for some of these copies to learn to do anything besides shouting "Fun!" all of the time.  And the longer Twilight waits to send them back, the more sapience they gain.  But leaving two copies alive shouldn't cause any harm to anypony, and by now these Pinkies have probably grown to have their own identity, so they certainly should be left alive.

[Rarity Is Best Pony 634]

I absolutely think that this is a clone of Pinkie Pie which was able to blend in all this time so it should continue to do so. The fan fiction fuel that will be generated from such a thing can be awesome!

[MLPFanatic34 3,234]

I still wonder where the clones came from! O.o

[Unlikeable Pony 2,698]

If that were true, then if a couple that is originally planning to have kids changes their minds, they just committed murder.  Personally, I think that what Twilight did in Too Many Pinkie Pies was perfectly acceptable, as all but perhaps the first two Pinkie copies created had more than just a scrap of sapience, and the two that were more intelligent were smart enough to escape and move to Manehatten.  The other option was to let them live, which would cause chaos, especially since it could take perhaps years for some of these copies to learn to do anything besides shouting "Fun!" all of the time.  And the longer Twilight waits to send them back, the more sapience they gain.  But leaving two copies alive shouldn't cause any harm to anypony, and by now these Pinkies have probably grown to have their own identity, so they certainly should be left alive.

 

 

One could also supposit that the Mirror Pool itself is what possesses the sapience, and that the sapience is spread around the more clones are made (kind of like having a bunch of different computers hooked up to the same internet network, with them all downloading at once making the speed super slow, but it being ultra high if only one is hooked up)

 

So 1000 clones would have the sapience spread around too thinly to be sapient, but if there's only one clone alive, the the collective Sapience of the entire pool would be able to be accessed by that pinkie clone and allowing it to be sapient. So by destroying the other clones twilight allowed the remaining one to reach a level of sapience.

[Ashen Pathfinder 16,161]

@@Truffles

 

Not a big deal, but for the sake of any newer fans who may miss what you are referring to I went ahead and added a screenshot of the Pinkie clone in question; along with the name of the episode itself. You did nothing wrong; was just making things clear.

 

Thanks.

[silvadel 1,393]

 

 

I think the issue is the organization of the magic in the Mirror Pool is an unknown. Even if they are sent back there and not explicitly "killed," they lose all of their life experiences and just become part of the energy of the pool. So even if a new clone is created, the old one won't have any memories or any sense of having existed before. Basically as a sapient being they cease to exist, even if the energy continues on in another form.

 

The problem I have is that she didn't even consider the issue.  She was really worried about the possibility of the real pinkie being broken down into energy and thrown into the pool, but she didn't even put one second to worry about the possible sapience of the pinkies.  They were annoying and in the way, and the solution was to turn a blind eye and kill them.

 

Think of it this way.  Lets say AJ was the one who made clones instead of pinkie pie to say handle picking all of the apples on the farm in episode 4 without "help" and they were all honest but compulsive farmers.  Would Twilight have even tried to send them back?

[Truffles 2,033]

If that were true, then if a couple that is originally planning to have kids changes their minds, they just committed murder.

 

It's not quite the same. Gametes have no way to form a sentient life form on their own, they have to be combined with another and then gestated. The Pinkie copies were already functioning life forms, even if they were running some simple version of the original's brain.

 

My point was it's possible to consider them as a sort of fetal life form with the potential to grow (mentally) into something more. (The show doesn't really indicate whether their mental capacity could expand as time went on, aside from the stray we saw in the diner which may or may not be the initial copy and thus may already have been smarter than the others.) And since there are many who consider terminating a fetus' life as murder, then ceasing the existence of the copies might be considered just as bad.

 

 

Think of it this way.  Lets say AJ was the one who made clones instead of pinkie pie to say handle picking all of the apples on the farm in episode 4 without "help" and they were all honest but compulsive farmers.  Would Twilight have even tried to send them back?

 

That's a fair point. You're right when you said a life form being annoying isn't an excuse to end its existence. It makes me think Twilight finds Pinkie's core personality annoying and thus she didn't have any qualms over sending them back, despite what that actually may mean for them or how it would make them feel.

 

If Spike had cloned himself, or even Shining Armor, I suspect she would have second thoughts since they are family to her and not just friends. (I'm trying to imagine now what compulsion a Shining Armor clone would exhibit.    Spike OTOH, there's lots of compulsions I could come up for his copies to have!)

[Splashee 28,564]

Yes. But I feel like all the clones should have the right to live. No one deserved to be destroyed (just for comic relief). It is just sad.

[Tom Gallagher 33,588]

I always felt bad for the clones. They only wanted to spread ‘fun’. 

[Flying Pencil 3,024]

No. Because the clone pinkie might decide to get revenge and frame the real Pinkie. Might

[Evil Pink One 13,506]

Who said that the clones were dead? They just got sent back to their dimension.