I don't think Starlight is quite as "OP" as some might think.

[BastementSparkle 20,328]

One, very constant complaint I've seen held against Starlight is how "OP" she is, and how she hasn't earned her abilities. Having put some thought into it, I'm not fully sure I agree. Now, I'm not going to argue that Starlight isn't powerful, talented, and intelligent. She is clearly all of these things, Twilight herself says Starlight has more magical potential than anypony she's seen, Starlight is clearly impressive. However, I'm going to argue that she might not be as good of a match to Twilight as she's thought to be.

 

 First, Twilight and Starlight have had three main "Battles" so far throughout the series. At the end of the season 5 premiere, throughout the season 5 finale, and at the start of the season 6 episode "Every Little thing she does". In each of these fights, Starlight was shown to be very powerful and skilled with magic. Capable of keeping up with Twilight even, but is that totally true?

 

 In the season 5 premiere, when Starlight is preparing to blast the Townsponies, Twilight flies down and easily blocks the spell with a shield. Starlight is unable to break through this shield, and even comments with obvious frustration that she's studied that spell for years, how could Twilight do it better than her? This here seems to set up that Twilight is more powerful than Starlight.

 

 Yet, later, in the finale, Twilight and Starlight seem more evenly matched, how is that? Twilight was shown to be superior in the premiere, so what gives? Well, for one Starlight has probably spent the past year constantly studying and improving her skills. You know, when she wasn't stalking Twilight anyway. But, there's something else there...Starlight doesn't have a reason to hold back, Twilight does.

 

 Starlight's goal is to destroy Twilight's friendships by stopping the Rainboom, and she can do this any number of ways. As long as she stops the Rainboom from happening, it doesn't matter how she did it. She can go all out, even at one point just blasting the filly Rainbow Dash out of the sky to stop it. Twilight, however has to be more reserved. Twice in the finale, we see Twilight's own magic create problems. First, when we see Twilight and Starlight's fight distract Dash and the others from their race, and second when Starlight does a well timed dodge, avoiding Twilight's blast and making it hit Dash instead.

 

 If Twilight uses her full power, there are too many risks. Not only just of her disrupting the Rainboom, but there are other ponies around as well, they could get hurt during the battle, and Twilight more than likely isn't willing to use lethal force against Starlight herself either. Starlight does not have these concerns at all.

 

 Their third battle in season 6 was also just a training battle. Nothing very serious at all. The two were keeping pace with each other quite well, but I sort of doubt either of them are going full power even then, they don't want to really hurt each other. The final blast from Starlight that ruins the whole library might say otherwise, but that's only on Starlight's behalf, isn't it? If it shows anything, it's that Starlight has less restraint with her magic than Twilight, and Twilight likely wasn't expecting her to go that far. She did manage to still save herself with a shield against it after all.

 

 There's also the matter that, ever since she moved to Ponyville, Twilight's studies have shifted. She no longer studies the old school glowing horn method of magic as much as she used to. Her main focus has changed to studying the "Magic of Friendship", that's even what she became a Princess for! All that time while Twilight was distracted from her old studies by Friendship (Not that that's a bad thing, it's clearly good she spends so much time on it.) Starlight was probably continuing to work solely on her own magical power and studies, only taking time off to manage her town.

 

 One final detail I'd like to add, is that a Unicorn with such great power isn't entirely foreign to this series. We've heard of one before, anyone remember Starswirl the Bearded? He's clearly been set up as being quite powerful and intelligent himself, Twilight even looks up to him as a role-model, he has his own travelling museum and everything. It's not impossible for Unicorns to reach great heights of power without becoming Alicorns.

 

 Of course, this isn't definitive. Magic power and talent in this show is hard to gauge when it's all so vague. Characters exact power isn't ever clearly defined, and the rules are very loose and at times non-existent. This entire post could be proven wrong in season 7 even. I just thought this might give a different perspective of things. What do you think?

Edited October 10, 2016 by BasementGlimmer

[Cleverclover 1,526]

The one question that I truly want answered is: "How does giving Starlight incredible magic potential benefit her as a character?" 

 

For Twilight, it's fairly understandable. Her incredible potential has always been tied with the fact that she's the Element of Magic. We've also seen her abilities growing throughout the course of the show, and we've been consistently led to believe that she's among the most talented magic users of her time. 

 

But where Starlight is concerned, I just cannot see any reason for her been so OP other than the notion that the writers thought it would make her character "cooler."  

 

"Yeah, that's all you really need to make bronies warm up to her! Don't even bother trying to give her any positive interaction with the mane cast outside of Twilight. That's just a waste of time! All we need to do is make her incredibly powerful, and the bronies will love her to pieces!" 

 

It offers her character nothing. I could get behind her having plenty of magical prowess to make her a formidable villain, but what I cannot get behind is her apparently having "more magical potential" than anyone that the Element of Magic herself has ever seen.

 

What does this honestly do for her character? Does it help with her friendship lessons? No, quite the opposite, from what I've seen. Does it help her become a better pony? No, because she has used it as a means to display that she does not deserve anyone's trust. 

 

All it really does is make you scratch your head as to why she was not designated the Element of Magic instead of Twilight. And it also makes you scratch your head as to why Sunburst was recognized as a magical prodigy while Starlight, somehow, was completely ignored. Additionally, it also makes her character feel as though she is some random brony's OC. The notion that the mane six could just happen upon this completely random unicorn, with a (somewhat) tragic backstory, and a not-so-glamorous past, who happens to have more magic potential than the Element of Magic herself seems like a fairly common setup for an OC. (Of course, the only thing missing is her alicorn status). 

 

Couple this without how reckless she is with magic, and how she uses a spell as her first resort for everything, and it really doesn't feel like she deserves the potential she has in any way. 

[BastementSparkle 20,328]

Couple this without how reckless she is with magic, and how she uses a spell as her first resort for everything,

 

I think this is exactly what it does for her character, at least right now. It serves as an issue for her to overcome. What has Starlight done her whole life, when faced with a problem? Throw force and magic at it. Cutie Marks ruin Friendship? Use magic to get rid of them. Want revenge on somepony? Magic to go back in time and stop her from forming a bond with her friends. Need to do Friendship lessons? Magic will make it easier!

 

 Starlight's solution to everything is "Magic!" and when she's faced with a problem that shouldn't involve magic, her first instinct is to throw more magic at it until it works. We saw this in No Second Prances, it was addressed more in Every little thing she does as well. Magic is what she's good at, and she needs to learn how to solve problems without it.

 

Her over reliance on magic is a character flaw for her to work on. That's what it is.

 

 

 

We've also seen her abilities growing throughout the course of the show, and we've been consistently led to believe that she's among the most talented magic users of her time.

 

 

A bit incorrect, actually. In season 3, Magic Duel, Twilight failed to perform an age spell, claiming it was only for "The Highest Level Unicorns", implying that Twilight herself was not one of them...Not yet, anyway. It was only through thinking up a plan that Twilight beat Trixie, and had nothing to do with her actual magic. Meaning, there was a whole class of Unicorns above her at the time, of which Starlight seems to be in this class. Twilight would likely be considered in this class now as well, minus the "Unicorn" part, obviously.

 

 

 

And it also makes you scratch your head as to why Sunburst was recognized as a magical prodigy while Starlight, somehow, was completely ignored.

 

 

Sunburst was carted off by his parents the second he got his cutie mark, and it was recognized he had talent. We haven't even seen Starlight's parents yet. There's no clear explanation for why Starlight's abilities weren't recognized earlier, but it's not impossible that she had no parents, that they simply didn't care, or that they couldn't for some reason send her off to a school.

 

 There's no clear explanation for this in the show, which could be viewed as a writing problem, but it's not impossible there's a reason for how such a talented pony could go unnoticed, such things can happen in real life.

Edited October 10, 2016 by BasementGlimmer

[Ninjaed 526]

How does this benefit Starlight as a character, hm? That's an interesting question.

 

As Basement said, this is a hurdle to overcome. Some people IRL will solely rely on what they do best and neglect the rest. This could be a message to try and diversify your abilities. Over-specialisation can isolate people.

 

But that might be over-analysing it. Might. The way I see it, it's more to give some kind of foil to Twilight. Starlight being about "creating", Twilight being about "analysing". I'm hoping to see more development in that regard, actually. I've always considered Starlight Glimmer to be a modern Starswirl the Bearded, and this could be fun to see - if done properly.

 

 

Oh, and as for her OP-ness, I mostly agree. Starlight doesn't seem to be more powerful than Twilight, but does seem to be close to (or equal) unicorn Twilight. And more reckless about it, too. At any rate, that's still plenty powerful. It's a bit of a risky bet to give her such magic potential, but so long as it's handled properly story-wise, I'll be fine with it. Otherwise, as Clover said, she'd be more of a random borny's OC. That'd sting... Just need to wait and see what Hasbro will do.

Edited October 10, 2016 by Ninjaed

[BastementSparkle 20,328]

it's more to give some kind of foil to Twilight. Starlight being about "creating", Twilight being about "analysing".

 

This is an interesting idea, though this creates questions. Twilight's ascension to an Alicorn was done after finishing Starswirl's spell, as Celestia put it, she had done something never done before. She had created "New magic", which was apparently the final test required for her.

 

 Now, Starlight has obviously shown talent at combining spells, with the speed and cloning spells she combined at the start of "Every Little thing she does", and talent at modifying spells with improving Starswirl's time spell, but does that mean she hasn't "Created" any magic? Is the Cutie Mark removal spell not her own? Maybe there's just a difference between creating a new spell, and creating new magic.

 

 Probably never going to be answered, but that's something to think about.

 

 

 

I've always considered Starlight Glimmer to be a modern Starswirl the Bearded, and this could be fun to see - if done properly.

 

 

This is very much how I see her as well. People are worried about her becoming a new Alicorn, which is a worry I can understand, as it's possible, but a good future for her would simply be becoming a very powerful and influential unicorn mage. Starswirl was so powerful he could apparently open up portals to other worlds, as that's how he banished the sirens, and so far the only other character to show that kind of power is Discord. 

 

 It's also good to note, one other thing Starlight's great magical power and knowledge gives her, is an extra reason for her friendship with Twilight. Of Twilight's core friend group, she doesn't really have anypony to discuss magic with, does she? The Mane 5 have other interests, as does Spike. Starlight is a friend that Twilight can have legitimate intelligent discussions about magic with, and even training sessions. Twilight adores her other friends, but it's probably great for her to have a friend living so close by who loves and knows magic the same way she does.

Edited October 10, 2016 by BasementGlimmer

[chaosprincess 1,067]

In my opinion Starlight Glimmer is op, but every unicorn is op in what they shine in such as Rarity is op in dress making yes its not used in battle or anything, but its what she shines in, vinyl is op in music magic she uses it to create beats, each princess is op where they shine, Trixie is op in illusion magic etc from what I have seen I feel Starlight is op in battle magic since she really shines in combat so of course its what she would be stronger in, but she does lack in other areas such as friendship and she was not able to create a garment like Rarity she had to learn so to me every unicorn is op in what they shine in its not just Starlight Glimmer a unicorn studies the type of magic they want to shine in and Starlight being abandoned and having things taken from her studied more towards combat as her fighting skill with magic is powerful so is it her defense magic and to be honest the alicorns have been lacking since they are easily kidnapped, but  overall every unicorn is op there is different type of unicorn magic out there and not only that Zecora being a zebra is able to do magic as well so magic is not only limited to unicorns it all depends on where the magic user wants to be skilled in so overall all ponies are op in what they excel in.

[BastementSparkle 20,328]

In my opinion Starlight Glimmer is op, but every unicorn is op in what they shine in such as Rarity is op in dress making yes its not used in battle or anything, but its what she shines in, vinyl is op in music magic she uses it to create beats, each princess is op where they shine, Trixie is op in illusion magic etc from what I have seen I feel Starlight is op in battle magic since she really shines in combat so of course its what she would be stronger in, but she does lack in other areas such as friendship and she was not able to create a garment like Rarity she had to learn so to me every unicorn is op in what they shine in

 

This is also a pretty good point. When fans complain about how "OP" a character is in terms of power, it's usually only in reference to how that affects the story in big adventure episodes. But most of this show focuses on Slice of life events and relationship problems. Bad guy blasting power doesn't mean much when the current problem is that your friend won't speak to you for some reason. Trying to use magic to solve that problem is useless, or even harmful.

 

 At times, the emphasis on how powerful a character is also feels like it devalues others skills. Sheer power isn't the only thing that matters in this show, Rarity's fashion skills or Dash's flying ability are also good talents, and can have just as much meaning.

Edited October 10, 2016 by BasementGlimmer

[chaosprincess 1,067]

This is also a pretty good point. When fans complain about how "OP" a character is in terms of power, it's usually only in reference to how that affects the story in big adventure episodes. But most of this show focuses on Slice of life events and relationship problems. Bad guy blasting power doesn't mean much when the current problem is that your friend won't speak to you for some reason. Trying to use magic to solve that problem is useless, or even harmful.

 

 At times, the emphasis on how powerful a character is also feels like it devalues others skills. Sheer power isn't the only thing that matters in this show, Rarity's fashion skills or Dash's flying ability are also good talents, and can have just as much meaning.

Very true magic should not be based on power since magic can be used in different forms, but it seems like the show just focus on powerful magic such as flurry heart, starlight glimmer etc instead of focusing on other forms of strength where starlight shines she fails in other aspects as every character does so yes she is powerful in magic, but also has her faults as every character should to help their growth and show their other strong points the mane 6 have been able to solve problems, but magic was never the solution it was what they shined in that helped and I feel starlight will always be seen as op in magic due to she is because its where she shines its what she studied as rainbow dash will always be op in flying etc.

[Goat-kun 2,528]

All these lengthy dissertations we’ve witnessed about Starlight’s reformation and her magic are a commendable attempt at neutering the hate, but unfortunately, these are still not the arguments that could turn the tide in her favor.

 

FIM has had six seasons with seventh in the making. Throughout these seasons, the Mane 6 have gathered their fans that do expect them to shine and do their best within the episodes. Yet our glorious writers seem to no longer know how to write outstanding episodes for said characters.

 

There are two paths one can take: do a better job or give them the best possible end. Starlight pushes these characters into the background which adds to the bitterness of those who think the writers should do a better job with the Mane 6 and also contributes nothing to the second option of making them go out with a bang. It’s a botched palliative treatment for a show that shows signs of rot. This is not how you keep it fresh. This is how you shatter a fandom.

[BastementSparkle 20,328]

All these lengthy dissertations we’ve witnessed about Starlight’s reformation and her magic are a commendable attempt at neutering the hate, but unfortunately, these are still not the arguments that could turn the tide in her favor.

 

I've seen some people warming up to her overtime. Overall, I think the thoughts on her have gotten a bit more positive. She's certainly always going to have her haters, even quite a lot of them, but I feel like it's starting to die down. Can't convince everyone though, and that's fine, can't have fun discussions if everyone perfectly agrees anyway.

 

 

 

Throughout these seasons, the Mane 6 have gathered their fans that do expect them to shine and do their best within the episodes. Yet our glorious writers seem to no longer know how to write outstanding episodes for said characters.

 

That's subjective. I've personally enjoyed most of season 6, even most of the less popular episodes. It's not my favorite season, but I think the show is still of generally good quality. For me, this season has been up there with 4 and 2, which means it's pretty darn good.

 

 Hopefully season 7 is a bit more to everyone's liking. Criticism is all good, but I find it more fun when the overall attitude is one of enjoyment. I'm fully expecting Starlight to stick around and get more attention, but perhaps they'll find a bit of a better balance with everyone else as well.

Edited October 10, 2016 by BasementGlimmer

[Ninjaed 526]

FIM has had six seasons with seventh in the making. Throughout these seasons, the Mane 6 have gathered their fans that do expect them to shine and do their best within the episodes. Yet our glorious writers seem to no longer know how to write outstanding episodes for said characters.

 

As I've said in another thread, it feels to me they wanted to bring closure to a few loose ends and generally set the Mane 6 into some kind of stability. That way, they could introduce that lore change in the finale and tell new and fresh stories in season 7. They certainly have prepared the field for that, anyway.

 

As for the hatred, well... so long as people aren't saying Starlight wanted to destroy Equestria, or that she was just a power-hungry dictator wannabe, I'm fine with it. To each their own after all. I just don't want to see her be falsely accused.

[GrimGrimoire 4,973]

As I've said in another thread, it feels to me they wanted to bring closure to a few loose ends and generally set the Mane 6 into some kind of stability. That way, they could introduce that lore change in the finale and tell new and fresh stories in season 7. They certainly have prepared the field for that, anyway.

 

As for the hatred, well... so long as people aren't saying Starlight wanted to destroy Equestria, or that she was just a power-hungry dictator wannabe, I'm fine with it. To each their own after all. I just don't want to see her be falsely accused.

 

I think they have very specific plans for her in general.. big plans. And honestly, I think they have been leading up to something throughout S6 without many realizing or noticing it. Just a mix of friendship fixing episodes and slice of life episodes have buried the messages. I dunno if I am right or not... but if I am, then it is either pure genius what they have done, or pure ridiculousness. The next few months will answer my theories.

 

But in answer to the question, no i don't think she is OP. No one in the show ever said only the princesses can attain powerful magic. There is no telling how many powerful magicians are out there, and to what level of talent they are at. Is she more powerful than Twilight? I don't know... she most certainly can be if she spends her days studying spells and magic and casting them and practicing them while Twilight practices organizing books and holding tea parties. Just because she is the avatar of the element of magic that does not give her a free pass to ultimate magical ability... that still comes with practice and use.

 

Twilight is my favorite character, but I get the feeling Starlight applies herself to her magic studies as diligently as Twilight does her friendship ones. And that has to account for more than people will care to admit.

[Thrond 3,263]

Starlight Glimmer was, in many ways, conceived as a foil to Twilight Sparkle, so of course she has significant magical power. I don't really know what the show writers have in mind for that, but as far as I'm concerned, it's important to her role as Twilight's student: just like Twilight was a gifted unicorn guided by Celestia, Twilight must now guide a gifted unicorn of her own, and this time that unicorn needs the guidance all the more. That said, I do feel her character arc is a bit too much on the slow side. 

 

All these lengthy dissertations we’ve witnessed about Starlight’s reformation and her magic are a commendable attempt at neutering the hate, but unfortunately, these are still not the arguments that could turn the tide in her favor.

 

FIM has had six seasons with seventh in the making. Throughout these seasons, the Mane 6 have gathered their fans that do expect them to shine and do their best within the episodes. Yet our glorious writers seem to no longer know how to write outstanding episodes for said characters.

 

There are two paths one can take: do a better job or give them the best possible end. Starlight pushes these characters into the background which adds to the bitterness of those who think the writers should do a better job with the Mane 6 and also contributes nothing to the second option of making them go out with a bang. It’s a botched palliative treatment for a show that shows signs of rot. This is not how you keep it fresh. This is how you shatter a fandom.

Y'know, there's been a fair number of episodes focused on the mane six this season, a good handful of which I think are pretty solid, and Starlight is a massive improvement over S5's solution of slapping a new character on every other episode. If anything, it's Starlight who's getting the short end of the stick, and it's the slowness of her arc which is probably alienating people. Frankly, I think this doomsday talk is pretty hyperbolic; I recall the fandom complaining about changes and the quality of new seasons since S2. 

 

Besides, I resent all the people who are just now claiming the mane six are stagnating when I've been annoyed with that since season 4. I honestly think this season is the best for character development since season 3. But then, I just got here; maybe other people were complaining about the same during those earlier seasons. 

 

 

and generally set the Mane 6 into some kind of stability.

Can't help but feel this isn't the right direction for the show. I can't help but feel that these characters have plenty of untapped potential. Have not seen the last few episodes of the season, however. 

[Lambdadelta 1,462]

People just complain about how a sole unicorn can be on par with an alicorn and they call her OP and I dont blame them. There are 3 reasons, I believe she is OP at magic (based on the lastest episode):

- She is getting powerful in such an incredibly short time.

- She combine spells more than just reading them. She is the scientist of magics.

- She dont need school. A rogue unicorn can make those academic unicorns feels asshame.

 

Jesus, where this pony come from?

 

Starwirl the Beard is master of magic but lacks magic of friendship.

 

Starlight is a young unicorn with incredible magic ability but sucks at friendship...

 

Starlight, Starwirl, Starlight, Starwirl, STAR...

 

Is she a Starwirl the Beard Descendant? I got a new headcanon today.

 

And that my bitch, she is an OP magician but flaws as a person...

[Goat-kun 2,528]

I've seen some people warming up to her overtime. Overall, I think the thoughts on her have gotten a bit more positive. She's certainly always going to have her haters, even quite a lot of them, but I feel like it's starting to die down. Can't convince everyone though, and that's fine, can't have fun discussions if everyone perfectly agrees anyway.

 

 

That's subjective. I've personally enjoyed most of season 6, even most of the less popular episodes. It's not my favorite season, but I think the show is still of generally good quality. For me, this season has been up there with 4 and 2, which means it's pretty darn good.

 

 Hopefully season 7 is a bit more to everyone's liking. Criticism is all good, but I find it more fun when the overall attitude is one of enjoyment. I'm fully expecting Starlight to stick around and get more attention, but perhaps they'll find a bit of a better balance with everyone else as well.

 

As I've said in another thread, it feels to me they wanted to bring closure to a few loose ends and generally set the Mane 6 into some kind of stability. That way, they could introduce that lore change in the finale and tell new and fresh stories in season 7. They certainly have prepared the field for that, anyway.

 

As for the hatred, well... so long as people aren't saying Starlight wanted to destroy Equestria, or that she was just a power-hungry dictator wannabe, I'm fine with it. To each their own after all. I just don't want to see her be falsely accused.

In mobas, we have these people who like heroes/champs who are a bit on the stronger side and make the game miserable for the enemy team that cannot form a good response other than banning them at the beginning of the match. Some like to defend them against the great nerf bat of justice due to their own reasons.

 

Now look me in my beady black eyes and say you ain’t doing the same thing. It’s nothing wrong, mind you. We’re all here to have fun. It’s just that knowing if you’re defending Starlight because you like her or because you truly believe she will bring new life to this show simplifies my response.

 

Starlight Glimmer was, in many ways, conceived as a foil to Twilight Sparkle, so of course she has significant magical power. I don't really know what the show writers have in mind for that, but as far as I'm concerned, it's important to her role as Twilight's student: just like Twilight was a gifted unicorn guided by Celestia, Twilight must now guide a gifted unicorn of her own, and this time that unicorn needs the guidance all the more. That said, I do feel her character arc is a bit too much on the slow side. 

 

Y'know, there's been a fair number of episodes focused on the mane six this season, a good handful of which I think are pretty solid, and Starlight is a massive improvement over S5's solution of slapping a new character on every other episode. If anything, it's Starlight who's getting the short end of the stick, and it's the slowness of her arc which is probably alienating people. Frankly, I think this doomsday talk is pretty hyperbolic; I recall the fandom complaining about changes and the quality of new seasons since S2. 

 

Besides, I resent all the people who are just now claiming the mane six are stagnating when I've been annoyed with that since season 4. I honestly think this season is the best for character development since season 3. But then, I just got here; maybe other people were complaining about the same during those earlier seasons.

We all have our own resentments, now don’t we. The character development in this show has always been shitty. Less dedicated time and a crutch character won’t change that, and it most definitely won’t improve it.

 

The way I see it, haters don’t dislike Starlight because of her lacking character arc but because of her character. On one appendage, she’s a very basic pony, on the other appendage, her attributes just don’t mix with the rest of the Mane 6 who are you average girl stereotypes first and saviors of Equestria second. Basically, it’s like spilling a whole jar of cinnamon into a tomato sauce and it now tastes kinda funny.

[Thrond 3,263]

The way I see it, haters don’t dislike Starlight because of her lacking character arc but because of her character. On one appendage, she’s a very basic pony, on the other appendage, her attributes just don’t mix with the rest of the Mane 6 who are you average girl stereotypes first and saviors of Equestria second. Basically, it’s like spilling a whole jar of cinnamon into a tomato sauce and it now tastes kinda funny.

Don't think I'll ever really understand what Starlight haters think (although right now I seriously wonder if the show realizes exactly how screwed up a character it has created), but I do think that makes some sense. The mane six are flawed but lovable characters with quirks and relatable insecurities, whereas Starlight is a complicated (if slightly flavourless) mix of insecurity and sociopathy who probably belongs in a more complex show. While I appreciate the risks taken with her, I wonder if the writers are willing to follow all of the implications they've set up to their conclusion. 

[Kyoshi Frost Wolf 41,730]

While I am starting to like Starlight's personality, she is still overrowered beyond belief and with pretty much zero justification. Her losing one friend that one time is not enough to convince me that she should be on par magically with Element of Magic herself who is also an alicorn princess. None of it makes sense. Her being good at magic, sure, but so powerful that she can combine spells without trying and can rip cutie marks off? I find that to be immensely dumb and this to me damages her overall character. Her personality is starting to shine through but her being up to god teir status in magic for no reason understandably put a barrier up for a lot of us against her before.

[BastementSparkle 20,328]

 

 

Now look me in my beady black eyes and say you ain’t doing the same thing. It’s nothing wrong, mind you. We’re all here to have fun. It’s just that knowing if you’re defending Starlight because you like her or because you truly believe she will bring new life to this show simplifies my response.

 

I legitimately think she is a good character, with a few flaws admittedly. I also think her episodes in the sixth season were some of the best, and that she has added, and can add more interesting things to the show.

 

 However, I also like her. So, obviously, what I consider to be something interesting might not be the same as what someone else does. I can truly believe she's good for the show, while someone else might not. I'm biased, because yes, I do like her.

 

 So...both?

 

 

 

Her losing one friend that one time is not enough to convince me that she should be on par magically with Element of Magic herself who is also an alicorn princess.

 

Of course not, that'd be absolutely ridiculous. What gave you the idea that losing her friend is what made herself so powerful? I'd be more inclined to believe it's natural talent combined with a lifetime of study and practice. Sure, Starlight is at a disadvantage to Twilight, as Twi got into a fancy school and a Princess mentor. But it's not impossible for a person to get good at something through self-teaching.

 

 Being the Element of Magic and an Alicorn Princess doesn't immediately make Twilight the "Be-all, End-all" either. I mentioned further up that even after becoming the Element of Magic, Twilight couldn't perform an age spell. She straight up said it was only for the "Highest Level Unicorns". Twilight wasn't a highest level unicorn, she was never the "Best" at magic, even though she was very talented.

 

 Twilight's ascension to Alicornhood likely boosted her power further, but even then, Twilight's main focus no longer lies in "Classic" magic. Her focus since she moved to Ponyville has instead, mostly been on the magic of friendship. While she certainly has still improved her old magic, and still studies and practices it, her attention has been diverted. Starlight's wasn't, she wasn't making friends, she was just focused on becoming more powerful.

[pony.colin 156]

Never really considered Starlight to be OP, powerful yes, but not OP.

 

It's more interesting to know that Starlight is a capable high level magical unicorn to me.  I figured her character should've been deeper after her initial appearance and the backstory we got for her was okay (not great, but I've accepted it at this point). I guess if not really focusing on her personality for this thread, and instead more about her "power level" - I don't really see it as a problem. I don't see her as surpassing Twilight though, maybe closer to her capable levels, but not surpassing Twilight in a way.

 

But I do like the points that @@Cleverclover, has brought up.

 

 

 

What does this honestly do for her character? Does it help with her friendship lessons? No, quite the opposite, from what I've seen. Does it help her become a better pony? No, because she has used it as a means to display that she does not deserve anyone's trust.

 

I kind of like it like this because Starlight started off in this unusual position of "now what?" and doesn't exactly understand how to socialize after being a former antagonist and having this looming guilt or some sort of stress that's been poked about here and there in her episodes. Granted, she does feel kind of inconsistent at times at trying to understand, but I kind of like this because, it potentially means we haven't really thought of her as being a little bit more complex than our initial judgement.

 

 

 

All it really does is make you scratch your head as to why she was not designated the Element of Magic instead of Twilight. And it also makes you scratch your head as to why Sunburst was recognized as a magical prodigy while Starlight, somehow, was completely ignored. Additionally, it also makes her character feel as though she is some random brony's OC. The notion that the mane six could just happen upon this completely random unicorn, with a (somewhat) tragic backstory, and a not-so-glamorous past, who happens to have more magic potential than the Element of Magic herself seems like a fairly common setup for an OC. (Of course, the only thing missing is her alicorn status).

 

About Starlight and Sunburst i can agree with. It does scratch my head when we look back at her backstory and Starlight ended up being the capable unicorn rather than Sunburst. A sort of funny twist of fate that I thought was more interesting to me when I was viewing the differences of how life ended up between Startlight and Sunburst. I can't really gauge a "power level" because magic has never really had well defined rules on this show, but I don't see Starlight as having surpassed Twilight since Twilight has a completely different personality and approach to things that she's done over these past seasons, she's been molded after all these years. I guess what I'm trying to get at, is that I don't view an intrinsic link that is mandatory to have between having the element of magic and being a gifted prodigy.  Sure it's expected, but I don't think you have to be the best magical user to be able to wield the element. But like I said, I can't really compare and measure Twilight and Starlight's magical level because I can't figure out how to gauge them and I kind of view them as being very close to each other in terms of magical capability.

 

I kind of was expecting there to be at least some capable high level magical unicorns that existed besides Twilight and we just haven't met them. Starlight though, being one of them. And I don't find that unsettling, cause hey, realistically, you're not going to be only one who is the best at something in the world.

 

Starlight makes for a little bit more interesting dynamic of bouncing off of the mane cast to me. Although, I did not expect what they were going to do with Starlight, going into this season 6.

Edited October 11, 2016 by pony.colin

[BastementSparkle 20,328]

 

 

I guess if not really focusing on her personality for this thread, and instead more about her "power level" - I don't really see it as a problem.

 

I was originally going to do a thread just on Starlight in general, but I kinda realized I was going to type up so much text to get all my thoughts out, it seemed a bit much. Plus, her being "OP" is such a common complaint, I sorta wanted to talk about it particularly.

 

 I might make a post based more on her overall character later, or a blog post about it. But I kinda want to wait until the finale is "Offically" out to do that. If I do it anyway.

 

 

 

I guess what I'm trying to get at, is that I don't view an intrinsic link that is mandatory to have between having the element of magic and being a gifted prodigy.  Sure it's expected, but I don't think you have to be the best magical user to be able to wield the element.

 

 

 Some people seem bothered by the idea of another character, or particularly just another pony being able to compete with Twilight though. For various reasons, her status as "Element of Magic" and her being an Alicorn make her out to be the "Best". Which, I'm not sure she's ever been. She's certainly good, I won't deny. Probably one of the best, but that doesn't and shouldn't mean others can't compete.

 

 The element of "Magic" is easily the most vague. The other elements all feel a bit more clear, but "Magic"? I don't believe it just refers to the "Horn glowing, Zappedy Zap" kind of magic here. Especially since the title of the show is "Friendship is Magic" and Twilight is the Princess of Friendship now, I agree in that I don't think you'd need to be the best at spellcasting to access the magic of friendship. That would also mean being the best at spellcasting wouldn't automatically make you capable of wielding the element.

 

 Alicorn status...Well, that's kinda vague too. The Alicorns clearly aren't godlike, but the Princesses did make a big deal out of not letting Tirek get their magic. I think it probably gives a boost to power, but that doesn't automatically mean an Alicorn is more powerful than any unicorn, or that a unicorn can't get to higher levels on their own.

 

 

 

Twilight and Starlight's magical level because I can't figure out how to gauge them and I kind of view them as being very close to each other in terms of magical capability.

 

 

 Pretty much how I see it. They're both close in power, I argue that Starlight seems like she might be just a little weaker, but there's no real way to know for sure. Every battle the two have had always had a reason for Twilight to hold back, except for the first where Twilight stopped Starlight's spell with ease.

 

 It could be argued that Starlight is more powerful based on other things we've seen her do, ripping off Cutie Mark's and modifying Starswirl's spell, and combining spells as well. But there's no real guarantee Twilight can't do these things. Twilight says she's impressed with Starlight, but past season 5 she never really seems shocked at what Starlight can do, and never really has a reaction like "I could never do that!".

[Ninjaed 526]

Now look me in my beady black eyes and say you ain’t doing the same thing. It’s nothing wrong, mind you. We’re all here to have fun. It’s just that knowing if you’re defending Starlight because you like her or because you truly believe she will bring new life to this show simplifies my response.

 

Well, I like her of course, but part of why I like her is because of what she can bring to the show. Being Twilight's student, being Twilight's partner in magic, tackling new issues (friendship and lack of confidence, among others), allowing other characters more development (Trixie for instance), message about tolerance and forgiveness, message about not isolating yourself away by focusing on one sole thing (kind of a repeat of Twilight and Moondancer, but it does mean broadening your mind, so it's a great message), and more...

 

And now, there's also that finale. I find her to be a loveable character who's also a bundle of untapped potential. That just makes me thrilled for the upcoming season!

 

 

Oh, and on the subject of being OP... Rainbow Dash managed a Sonic Rainboom before she was in her teens, when she was still being taught flight lessons.The show has a few such eyebrow-raising facts, so I'm usually like: sure, I'll play along. Not like real life doesn't have a few unbelievable things either. Reality can be stranger than fiction.

[KillerKingBakudan 702]

The only reason anyone thinks Starlight is OP is this obsessive need to compare her to Twilight. Which is to be expected considering the number of times they fought in the Season 5 finale, and more recently tested each other in Every Little Thing She Does. But when the most common perception of Twilight is rooted in this flawed belief that all alicorns are all-powerful dieties with godlike magic, it creates this stigma against Starlight that the writers can't make her recover from, no matter how good her episodes are. It really is an unfair situation for her.

 

So I'm just gonna say it right now. Twilight is nothing but a unicorn with wings. Becoming an alicorn did make her more powerful, but it did not put her on Luna's level, and it sure as hell didn't put her anywhere near Celestia's level. That's not where she was intended to be because her magic isn't supposed to work like theirs. And it doesn't matter if she IS the element of magic. Unlike Celestia and Luna, Twilight's power depends on the bonds she formed with others. 
 

The source of her magic is friendship. That means in order to achieve her true alicorn status and pull crazy feats that are consistent thereof, her magic NEEDS to be shared with her friends. The Season 4 finale made that clear. She could never beat Tirek on her own. It wasn't until she got Discord's key and unlocked the rainbow magic to share with the Mane Five that she surpassed the other alicorns, curbstomped Tirek, and dumped him back into Tartarus. 

"What is the Princess of Friendship without her friends?" Did nobody else understand the meaning behind this question when it was first posed in Twilight's throne room?
 

Cadence's magic is similar. Her power comes from love, and it wasn't until she combined her love with Shining Armor's that they managed to drive Chrysalis and her army out of Canterlot. By herself, she's vulnerable and that's why she got captured. It doesn't make her magic weak, but it's certainly not independent like Celestia and Luna's are either.

 

So no, Starlight is not OP simply because she can match Twilight in power. Most of you are just comparing her to Twilight when she's at her current-most weakest alicorn state. I can't see any justification for that. I also don't understand why it's so far-fetched that there could be other unicorns in Equestria devoted to studying magic to the extent that Twilight has. If Starlight was convinced that cutie marks led to a morally deprived way of living and inequality, and she made it her mission to wipe all cutie marks from the pony race, of course she'd study hard and gain all the magical knowledge she could. No character with that kind of ambition would operate without sufficient means to enact their plans. It's almost as if some of you wanted her to be a jobber like Trixie. Had that been the plan from the start, her episodes in Season 5 and 6 would have been a complete waste.

Edited October 11, 2016 by Lord-Pomegranate

[Goat-kun 2,528]

Relevant.

 

You, there. Get over here too.

 

Don't think I'll ever really understand what Starlight haters think (although right now I seriously wonder if the show realizes exactly how screwed up a character it has created), but I do think that makes some sense. The mane six are flawed but lovable characters with quirks and relatable insecurities, whereas Starlight is a complicated (if slightly flavourless) mix of insecurity and sociopathy who probably belongs in a more complex show. While I appreciate the risks taken with her, I wonder if the writers are willing to follow all of the implications they've set up to their conclusion.

 

Exactly. There is a place for such characters, yet FIM ain’t one of them. This show cannot function without its slice of life, and once you strip the need for powerful magic and redemption away from Starlight, then what? Twilight and Rarity, a fussy nerd and a fashion diva, can both do episodes about mundane crap. What can Starlight do now that her path has concluded? Hog up each and every action adventure episode for herself? Get dragged along by various Mane 6 members while constantly playing the “straight mare”? Do a repeat of already stale shtick with friendship lessons?

 

Now if this was some anime, I wouldn’t even bat an eye. Redeeming villains is what our eastern friends do every other arc and I am kinda fond of this tradition. However, it works in anime because the story tends to be uninterrupted. FIM cannot pull it off in a satisfying manner, and once it does pull it off with somepony like Starlight, it clashes directly with its slice of life core since the big bad villain (Discord excluded) has nothing to do if he/she isn’t built on the same “basic average girl” principle as Mane 6. Thus you get that nasty self-insert OC feeling when Starlight comes off as completely unconcerned with the everyday problems of muffin baking, apple bucking, and checklist’s checklist creation.

[Ninjaed 526]

Exactly. There is a place for such characters, yet FIM ain’t one of them. This show cannot function without its slice of life, and once you strip the need for powerful magic and redemption away from Starlight, then what? Twilight and Rarity, a fussy nerd and a fashion diva, can both do episodes about mundane crap. What can Starlight do now that her path has concluded? Hog up each and every action adventure episode for herself? Get dragged along by various Mane 6 members while constantly playing the “straight mare”? Do a repeat of already stale shtick with friendship lessons?

 

Well make up your mind!   Do you want to give her a chance to develop her character and have slice of life episodes (where she'd learn things other than magic, heck maybe the CMC will help her find hobbies) yet complain there's too much Starlight, or not give her this chance yet complain her character isn't developed, only useful and suited for action-oriented episodes?

Edited October 11, 2016 by Ninjaed

[Thrond 3,263]

Exactly. There is a place for such characters, yet FIM ain’t one of them. This show cannot function without its slice of life, and once you strip the need for powerful magic and redemption away from Starlight, then what? Twilight and Rarity, a fussy nerd and a fashion diva, can both do episodes about mundane crap. What can Starlight do now that her path has concluded? Hog up each and every action adventure episode for herself? Get dragged along by various Mane 6 members while constantly playing the “straight mare”? Do a repeat of already stale shtick with friendship lessons?

 

Now if this was some anime, I wouldn’t even bat an eye. Redeeming villains is what our eastern friends do every other arc and I am kinda fond of this tradition. However, it works in anime because the story tends to be uninterrupted. FIM cannot pull it off in a satisfying manner, and once it does pull it off with somepony like Starlight, it clashes directly with its slice of life core since the big bad villain (Discord excluded) has nothing to do if he/she isn’t built on the same “basic average girl” principle as Mane 6. Thus you get that nasty self-insert OC feeling when Starlight comes off as completely unconcerned with the everyday problems of muffin baking, apple bucking, and checklist’s checklist creation.

The sociopathy is what makes her interesting, but it also clashes with the show's themes. That said, I do think a relatively plain redemption arc would have held me for a good while. Still... girl needs more quirks.