Reviving the Brain Dead?

[GrimGrimoire 4,973]

So ran across this article and story again recently, hearing about it originally back in 2016.

Reviving the Brain Dead

Bioquark (very mad scientist like name for a company BTW) is looking to use stem cell research and injections to possibly bring the clinically brain dead back to life. To specify, brain dead is for those who are still "alive" physically, but with no actual brain activity, and in most cases no hope for it ever happening, thus in many of those cases, just keeping them hooked to machines keeping them alive due to hope that they make regain consciousness at some point. In many of these cases the victims of such a predicament are already declared deceased by the state.... although this can very across different areas. In many cases death is only declared in the absence of heart and lung functions, but for some complete loss of brain activity is enough.

There are very mixed opinions about this, with some feeling it may be possible, while others consider it is a flight of fantasy with no hope for success. Still, many families cling to the possibility that a loved one could be revived and whether or not this will succeed, it is still a small sliver of hope I am sure for many with the end result of having someone they love and cherish returned to them. For many scientists there is not enough evidence this has any hope of working, and is indeed really just built on a foundation of false hopes and is only tormenting families already dealing with a nightmare situation... and is in truth a cruel joke being played upon those holding out for some form of recovery. It opens up several doors into the future of course if this does end up becoming a success... since it could reverse many of the horrible situations families now go through who lose a loved one partially, condemning them to a sort of undead state neither fully alive, nor truly dead, trapped in a prison they cannot escape.

There have been some tests in the past that have shown some improvements in patients dealing with comas, stroke, cerebral palsy and brain injuries... but brain death is a completely different beast altogether. Then there is the topic of laser therapy, which has had little if any effect on patients since its start. The biggest difference being argued is that in the cases of those showing improvements, they all have injured brains, but still very much active and responsive... where as those suffering brain death are completely unresponsive and have no activity at all. There are also some problems in that there are situations with patients that are declared brain dead, who are not truly brain dead, and as such recovery leaves much of the treatment suspect as to the true ability and potential.

What do you think? Is this something we will see an advancement of in the future? Will people suffering from this be brought back, able to regain their lives.. or is it just medical quackery backed by desperate families and the dreams of doctors that truly want to help others, but are doomed to failure? Should we accept those suffering from this fate as deceased and let them go, or fight for their survival and possible recovery?

I am always thrilled with the possibility of advances that can help people and treat those suffering from ailments most of us could never imagine. Sure it can sound very Frankenstein or outlandish... but many things in the early pioneering stages of certain medical treatments and recovery often are. We have to start somewhere in exploring such a concept, as it will never just magically manifest on its own without someone to start taking those early steps to what may or may not be possible. I hate the thought of families dealing with this scenario, and would love to see a future where it is no longer a reality.

 

And yes, I know someone will be DYING to use the following joke so I am doing it for you to rob you of the satisfaction.

"If this works, we can use it on Trump! (And a whole host of assorted politicians and world leaders)

 

[Darthy Hooves 106]

The question is: You might revive the body, but can you revive the soul? Even if the body is revived, would the person retain their memories & intelligence or would the person be like a vegetable or baby?

Edited June 6, 2017 by Darthy Hooves

[aoEAF2FBvC0MIo2Q 3,673]

If this can be pulled off, then awesome!

For now, though, as long as medical experiments are carried out ethically, let them be carried out. Like many experiments, it requires the definitive consent of both parties involved.

Darthy Hooves beat me to the immediate question. What will happen to the person once woken up? Will they retain any memories? Will they have to learn to move and talk all over again?

[Zyrael 1,471]

Maybe we can use it on trump

 

 

[Vulcan 3,255]

4 hours ago, GrimGrimoire said:

Bioquark

Someone should give whoever came up with that name a promotion....It sounds like a real life Bioshock

 

Back on Topic, 

Considering we already spend a huge chunk for Cancer Research, I wouldn't mind if they put some of that research money into this. If not for Reviving the Brain Dead....It'd really be useful for Coma Patients.

Though in honesty, I'd just be good with Stem Cell Research in general....I honestly think It'll be the future of medicine. 

[Misty Shimmer 915]

I have more questions than I have answers (but who doesn´t). Let´s begin: There´s the soul problem of course, also if they are brought back are they really living their lifes again? like in another chance?, or would it be a cruel thing to them, making the patient go to rehabilitation, probably after a long time, maybe with severe injuries and a new world ahead since probably a great number have been in that state for years (especially the comatose ones taking Vulcan´s idea). Of course since they can´t take that decision is up to the family. The beliefs and religion of the family in question are also great factors (soul problem or not), also the finances of said family if the posibility of revival was real. But in the end only time will tell, I´m hopefull about any research in the health field really....if only we would place our money there instead of war....

Sorry for any grammar mistakes.....again I´m not that into english

[Jeric 46,860]

6 hours ago, Darthy Hooves said:

Even if the body is revived, would the person retain their memories & intelligence

This is at the heart of one of the issues. Memory is a distributed process, especially declarative memory. If cell cluster groups get replaced ... what the hell is that going to do to episodic memory and the reconstruction process? Memories are not like files that are retrieved ... though we know that the hippocampus is important with new memories and may work like cache. 

How do you stimulate the specific neural pathways? We know so little about how memories are stored and reconstructed that I'm both intrigued and doubtful that it will work. As far other functions that require the MO or pons ... I see that working with stem cell therapy far before restoring the memories that someone had.

[GrimGrimoire 4,973]

@Darthy Hooves @Liquid @Misty Shimmer @Blue Diamond

That is a major point of this controversy. For many scientists brain dead means just that... deceased. Thus even if you were to "revive" the patient, it would be like playing a blank cassette tape. Sure it would be running, but there would be nothing there... however, many believe memory and such is stored even deeper in ways we do not fully understand, and as such as long as the body is still breathing, the individual is still there waiting to be released. It is extremely difficult to gauge because we have never done it before. There have been cases of people reportedly brain dead who have re-awoken, sometimes after an extended period of time, but science has then declared those people not truly brain dead, but in a coma like state  It is possible that if the procedure is successful, the person could reawaken exactly how they were before they fell into that state, or be brought around with outside stimuli and intense therapy. There are still many question relating to the mind, memory and even the soul and possibility of it in a situation like this.

@Liquid @Vulcan

I agree. As long as all affected parties get a say in the matter (or someone speaking for them in the appropriate situations) then I don't see an issue. As I said, I like the idea of a future where modern medicine can help people suffering from horrible injuries and diseases recovery and go on with their lives. Everything HAS to start somewhere. There is a lot of research into stem cell procedures, and since science is now discovering possible ways to collect them in non controversial ways, it is opening up completely new methods for health recovery and rehabilitation.

 

7 hours ago, Misty Shimmer said:

Sorry for any grammar mistakes.....again I´m not that into english

Nothing to apologize for. You did fine... better than a lot of English speakers in fact I have seen. As mentioned above, the soul is a difficult thing to discuss in this situation... is it memory? Does it exist at all? Even if they are full revived with no long term ill effects, does it prove the existence of a soul? Honestly, at this point in time it is futile to wonder since there is no forthcoming answer coming where we are standing at this precise moment. Perhaps if it is successful it can be discussed and pondered, but at the moment it is just hopeful thinking. Religion is an issue of course, but as you mentioned that will be up to the individual and the family, and will just be a case by case basis. Money is a very relevant point, but until we get health care systems more competent than the ones we rely on now, that will continue to be a struggle in virtually any medical case or procedure.

6 hours ago, Blue Diamond said:

This is at the heart of one of the issues. Memory is a distributed process, especially declarative memory. If cell cluster groups get replaced ... what the hell is that going to do to episodic memory and the reconstruction process? Memories are not like files that are retrieved ... though we know that the hippocampus is important with new memories and may work like cache. 

How do you stimulate the specific neural pathways? We know so little about how memories are stored and reconstructed that I'm both intrigued and doubtful that it will work. As far other functions that require the MO or pons ... I see that working with stem cell therapy far before restoring the memories that someone had.

It is indeed the heart of much of the discussion.. and at the end of it all it reaches that final statement pressed from both skeptical and confident scientists alike when pressed for what will happen. "I don't know". We have learned a lot about how the brain works, although it does still hold some mysteries, and continues to surprise with its abilities from time to time. Memory itself has been studied for decades, and yet still taunts us on how it fully operates... there is a transience about it that is both unique and mysterious and we are only beginning to understand in many ways. Honestly, I think this type of procedure, mainly if successful, will answer a lot of those questions and unravel much of those mysteries.

[Jokuc 8,174]

Lol, when I read the title I thought the thread was gonna be about a remake to the 1992 horror movie xD

 

Well that's tl;dr, but if they manage to fully recover them, I don't see why not. If they manage to get their brains working but without restoring memories and such.... That's a tough call. Should be up to the relatives to decide. I'm not against it, but I wouldn't want to do that to someone I knew. It'd be like a completely different person. It would feel like someone else stole my dead relative's body

[aoEAF2FBvC0MIo2Q 3,673]

8 hours ago, GrimGrimoire said:

That is a major point of this controversy. For many scientists brain dead means just that... deceased. Thus even if you were to "revive" the patient, it would be like playing a blank cassette tape. Sure it would be running, but there would be nothing there... however, many believe memory and such is stored even deeper in ways we do not fully understand, and as such as long as the body is still breathing, the individual is still there waiting to be released. It is extremely difficult to gauge because we have never done it before. There have been cases of people reportedly brain dead who have re-awoken, sometimes after an extended period of time, but science has then declared those people not truly brain dead, but in a coma like state  It is possible that if the procedure is successful, the person could reawaken exactly how they were before they fell into that state, or be brought around with outside stimuli and intense therapy. There are still many question relating to the mind, memory and even the soul and possibility of it in a situation like this.

All the more reason to do more research. Nothing to really do with mysteries but to continue searching and bring them to light.

[Meeps 298]

If it could be done in a way that allowed the patient to regain a semi-normal lifestyle, then perhaps. If the person were a blank slate? Hard to say.

Either way, I'm sure the findings would have useful applications, even if elsewhere. I heard late-term sheep embryos were being "finished out" in artificial uteruses, which already sounds wild enough. The future sounds very sci-fi, indeed.

[Nsxile 27,322]

I have major doubts it can be done successfully, but if it can then it would certainly be a quite an achievement.