Would you let you or your loved ones have a back-up clone?

[Steve Piranha 29,428]

1 hour ago, Coffee said:

Ah I see now! and yeah that does sound like an ethical gray area o_o 

(Though now that I think about it, The ethics of implanted or omitted memories, even if done voluntarily or for medical reasons would make for an interesting topic, On one hand it could certainly help PTSD and trauma patients...but It just wouldn't be real...Would fake good memories be better that horrible real ones? ...eh...I'm rambling -_-)

That's a subject to debate. Many bad memories build character, make us the person that we are today, but there are some some that only cripple and damage us. Still, it all depends on the person

58 minutes ago, Roughshod said:

Really puts into question what it means to be an individual human being, to have an 'identity'. None of us choose to be born, or have the parents and genes we do. Even much of our memories, while affected by some choices, are still also dependent on many factors we have no control over like our surroundings and the time we live in. But finding out you're just a replacement of someone who's died and meant to continue living so others won't have to deal with the reality of death could be earth-shattering to one's psyche. Or maybe not, depends on the person perhaps

At best the clone will decide "Fuck you, I'm making my own life. With Blackjack and hookers"  . Worst, cloning blues

[Roughshod 719]

5 minutes ago, Steve Piranha said:

At best the clone will decide "Fuck you, I'm making my own life. With Blackjack and hookers"  . Worst, cloning blues

I can't imagine a more profound and elegant answer to the thoughts I laid out. How could I be so blind?

[Vulcan 3,254]

10 hours ago, Yamet said:

Except that in one case, you actually did make said choice, and in the other you were simply implanted with the memory of making said choice.

I fail to see your point. I mean, I know the rational and reasoning behind several of my friends and family's bad choices, and I can also sympathize with a lot of them. However, I'd still be very pissed if I was forced to face the consequences of their choice.  

I see your point...but if I were a clone... It wouldn't really matter... Itd still feel like me...though I do understand that not everyone would feel the same... I mean if I suddenly learned that all my past memories werent really mine.... I'd just sort of... Carry on... I still feel like it's mine and unless folks start treating me different life would go on as normal. Though I get that there'd be a sizeable number of folks who'd be pissed off and rebel against themselves. 

[Lucky Bolt 35,064]

I don't support cloning...besides that's just creepy 

[Frostgage 7,975]

I'll acknowledge that I know next to nothing about the subject, but I believe if you're going to create artificial life they should have all the same rights as normal humans, and be allowed to live freely and independently as they please. It's not fair to create a sentient being and confine it to a predetermined purpose.

[SCS 7,537]

The human soul cannot be contained on any kind of technological device. People in today's society who are pushing evil, unnatural ideas like transhumanism (which would include things like attempting to clone yourself or upload your consciousness to a machine) are extremely deceptive and manipulative. Transhumanism is one of the worst evils we face in the world today, but our society has been being primed and programmed to accept it blindly by the rampant and aggressive proliferation of atheism, scientific materialism and moral relativism. The mechanics of modern society are finely tuned by those in power to brainwash people from the day they are born all the way until the day that they die, feeding people lies to make them believe that God isn't real, the soul doesn't exist, science can explain everything, and morality is relative. When people are tricked into believing that morality is some kind of relative or subjective entity, it becomes malleable and able to be transformed into whatever suits the objectives of those in power. One of the many reasons why mass communications have been meticulously molded to encourage the regression and degradation of Christian truth in society today is to prime people to blindly accept transhumanism as some kind of beneficial tool for humankind, some kind of key to an imaginary stage of evolution. All transhumanism will do will bring destruction to our civilization because it is one of the most unnatural acts that can occur, in the same class as atomic weaponry. As atomic weapons are an unnatural abomination that split some of the most funding building blocks of Creation, transhumanism attempts to separate human consciousness and sentience from the human soul which is even more unnatural to a greater degree than any of us truly understand. 

People need to open their eyes and understand that technological progress for the sake of progress is extremely dangerous, regressive, and harmful, and is used as an excuse to bring technology into our world that should never have existed in the first place. As soon as people attempt to dismiss the truth of God and the soul, there is a vacancy waiting to be filled by the devil and demonic ideas, the vast majority of which are wrapped in countless layers of deception so that the masses will be convinced they are participating in something good or positive when in truth they are doing the exact opposite.

So no, I would not ever allow myself or my loved ones to participate in human cloning or transhumanism of any kind. I will never accept the mark of the beast.

Revelation 13 - King James Version (KJV)

1 And I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a beast rise up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his horns ten crowns, and upon his heads the name of blasphemy.

² And the beast which I saw was like unto a leopard, and his feet were as the feet of a bear, and his mouth as the mouth of a lion: and the dragon gave him his power, and his seat, and great authority.

³ And I saw one of his heads as it were wounded to death; and his deadly wound was healed: and all the world wondered after the beast.

⁴ And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast: and they worshipped the beast, saying, Who is like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him?

⁵ And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months.

⁶ And he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme his name, and his tabernacle, and them that dwell in heaven.

⁷ And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.

⁸ And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

⁹ If any man have an ear, let him hear.

¹⁰ He that leadeth into captivity shall go into captivity: he that killeth with the sword must be killed with the sword. Here is the patience and the faith of the saints.

¹¹ And I beheld another beast coming up out of the earth; and he had two horns like a lamb, and he spake as a dragon.

¹² And he exerciseth all the power of the first beast before him, and causeth the earth and them which dwell therein to worship the first beast, whose deadly wound was healed.

¹³ And he doeth great wonders, so that he maketh fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men,

¹⁴ And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live.

¹⁵ And he had power to give life unto the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak, and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed.

¹⁶ And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads:

¹⁷ And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.

¹⁸ Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six.

 

[Jeric 46,852]

On 6/15/2017 at 8:04 AM, Coffee said:

What if there came a time in your lifetime where you or your loves ones could clone themselves as a sort of insurance policy in the event that something

horrible happens to you or them. The Clone would have all their memories from the instance they were created and would be stored as data in a hard drive

until the event that said horrible circumstance would occur and would then be created in a sort of 3-d printer like fashion. 

 

On one hand it's probably really immoral and border-line creepy but on the other

you can really help the folks who rely on you for support, I mean, If I were an adult, I'd gladly go through with it, Afterall,

Who better to take care of my future kids in the event of some catastrophe than a carbon copy of well....me o_o

 

Would you allow you or your loved ones to opt-in to such a policy? Why or Why not? 

(Such a Dark Topic, Just watched a video about stem cells...and I just sort of thought of this...) 

I am actually going to personally reflect on this question hard before I give my answer. If this was a year ago, I would have one answer to this that I would be firm on. Before I give than same answer, I need to be honest with myself. I actually lost a loved one recently, and while know I carry myself with a grace and strength that would have made my wife proud, I know the tempest inside of me makes me question what I would actually do. 

I'll dwell and opine later. 

6 hours ago, SCS said:

The human soul cannot be contained on any kind of technological device.

I don't believe that it would be any more 'technological' than artificial insemination or stem cells growing someone a new organ. If I ever felt the way you do about the human soul, then that would be it. The one it that people have that makes them walk away. It is usually for other reasons, but the indwelt soul being described in that way with those limitations ... that would be the moment in which God is shown to have limits ... and would break my own faith irrevocably ... as God's limits are only what He himself invokes by truth. If God would willfully deny a soul to someone with the same spark of life as anyone else ... if that is what I am to believe ... that would be my it. 

[Jeric 46,852]

I'm adding my final thoughts. 

It would be a no. It wouldn't be as much a principled stand as previously though. The thought of having my wife back is one that is selfishly appealing, but it would ignore one thing that I can't escape ... she would be mortified. Jess would be so against her being brought back that it would be an Injustice to her memory and her wishes. Her memory and wishes are far more evocative than a facsimile, who would also me horrified to be restored to live in this way. 

It wouldn't be a perversion of God ... it would be a perversion of her memory. She has passed away and that is something that weighs on me and my kids daily. It is our metaphorical cross to bear. But her death had meaning. She taught us much in her last days about how to end a life well lived. 

Anyway, this is where I would wind up ... this would be my decision in this hypothetical thought experiment. 

[Wingnut 6,998]

2 hours ago, Jeric said:

I'm adding my final thoughts. 

It would be a no. It wouldn't be as much a principled stand as previously though. The thought of having my wife back is one that is selfishly appealing, but it would ignore one thing that I can't escape ... she would be mortified. Jess would be so against her being brought back that it would be an Injustice to her memory and her wishes. Her memory and wishes are far more evocative than a facsimile, who would also me horrified to be restored to live in this way. 

It wouldn't be a perversion of God ... it would be a perversion of her memory. She has passed away and that is something that weighs on my and my kids daily. It is out metaphorical cross to bear. But her death had meaning. She taught as as much in her last days as she had previously. 

Anyway, this is how I would wind up ... my decision in this hypothetical thought experiment. 

This.  

I love your use of the word "facsimile" because that's exactly what the result would be.  The idea of clones or machines replacing our worn out bodies is great make believe and has been touched on in almost every realm of fiction.  It is possible to copy brainwaves and, probably someday, complete thoughts and memories. But we can't copy or upload the soul.  Not now. Not ever.  The result of some future attempt to do this would be a computer trying its best to imitate the person it is modeled after.  It would be an artificial intelligence.  One popular manga and anime, Galaxy Express 999, actually comes close this view.  People actually think they're doing a good deed replacing their frail biological bodies with machines. But the protagonist of the story quickly realizes that if these androids still have souls, they're tortured ones.  

[Invincible 2,091]

As an adult, I assert that I have full ownership of my own body and my faculties and therefore may replicate it at my discretion. I expect my loved ones to feel the same way. Though personally I'd prefer a genetically enhanced clone to an exact copy.

[Sir Hugsalot 9,348]

Question is - is the clone that actual person? In my opinion it is not. Unless You have a memory of death of Your  loved one permanently erased it will hardly help. You'll still be aware that the person You actually love is long gone and what You watch is a mere illusion, a convinient lie, not  to mention - a constant reminder of what You once lost. It just wouldn't work like it is supposed to. At least not for me. 

And I am pretty sure that in the end I would end up despising it. I'd see it as a pretender and a source of even more pain. And I am pretty sure I wouldn't even be the only one. I don't want such thing happening. If other people want to live like this (and every relative to the person who died is okay with that) then it is their choice. But I just don't even want to think about it myself. I can't picture myself with a clone pretending that someone never died despite seeing the grave each time I go to the graveyard. 

[TBD 17,254]

No i won't, it will be more painful for me.

[Guest]

Probably not - it sounds a lot like being replaced by something and I don't like the sound of getting replaced, no sir.  Maybe the loved ones would end up having better times with the clone than they did with the original me? Who knows if they'd consider having a lifelike clone unsettling too and I kind of hope they would. It's just the natural way of things that all living beings die at some point (as long as I hate admitting it) so tampering with it wouldn't feel very natural.

[Guest]

Depends on how well the clone would be made. If it was a 100% copy, which is hardly believable, sure.

[Nsxile 27,092]

I mean if it could transfer their consciousness from their old, dead body into the clone's body then it would be fine. If not then I'm not sure.

[Splashee 28,564]

Sure. Why not? It is not like a clone can do anything harmful, except for impersonation, setting you up, using everything that was meant for you, before you get a chance to have it. Also, who is the most worth? The one who originally had the body, or the one making the most out of the life situation?

[Rainbow Cloud 18,136]

Only if the clone version of myself created can be a genetically enhanced super clone with the addition of the suffix 'two' to the end of it's name. 

[Stardust 641]

No why would anyone do something so yucky 

[Pastel Heart 6,466]

Absolutely. I wanna make my loved ones smile forever

[ZiggWheelsManning 10,604]

Sure, it removes the massive body work of things I do everyday  

[Sonic Shimmer 4,132]

Everything is temporary, it's better to just let go of what's gone, as hard as that can be.