S07:E17 - To Change a Changeling

[Jeric 46,851]

Just now, Stardust Balance said:

It's just likely Spike was busy with other things.

Right. Which is in the top three reasons of why getting the whole gang together is a pain in the ass. Someone is always busy with something, but either way ... it makes as much sense for him to be absent as for him to be there. I mean, a huge amount of Pony episodes don't star the entire Mane Six. It's completely normal for people to be absent from a quick drop-in. This was literally Starlight teleporting from Ponyville. I can imagine it was actually a spur of the moment decision. Like ... imagine I am sitting in the couch joking with my friend John. Mike comes up in conversation, and we just go ... lets stop by! 

There may be a text or call ... but in general those organic and spontaneous moments happen frequently enough for me to not see anything wrong with Spike not being there. Now to someone who is a Spike fan, of course they would be more likely to be upset he wasn't included. 

[Stardust Balance 7,739]

Just now, VG_Addict said:

What makes you think S1 Spike wouldn't have done that?

I... What? I'm just pointing to episodes where Spike had significant character development outside of season one.

Also, something to humourously point out, all the reformed Changelings sound like they have cold's.

[CastletonSnob 3,074]

1 minute ago, Stardust Balance said:

I... What? I'm just pointing to episodes where Spike had significant character development outside of season one.

But he hasn't had development that stuck. 

[DubWolf 17,262]

I generally liked it, also Startrix yay  .

The episode went in the right direction being only 22 minutes; it could've developed the plot or the tensions even further by making the whole Pharynx problem even more difficult to solve, but that would've required the conflict to unwind a hell of a lot more after climaxing, which doesn't turn out very end in the well because pacing (i.e., Samurai Jack's ending...).

I'm not sure what the whole hot/cold soup guy had to do with anything  .

Also I did like Pharynx's new brash, visual design and his new (sort of...) place in the hive now, the others realizing that things will not always be so peaceful.

[Jeric 46,851]

Just realized that Mistmane's VA was the Group Leader of the magic soup cooling Feeling Forum. 

 

[Truffles 2,033]

2 hours ago, Steve Piranha said:

I think the charm about Trix is that she knows she's annoying, so she rolls with it. You know, that bestie that always annoys you, but you annoy back... It's fun  

I felt like it was over the top this time out, but if it's a joke she's playing up that her fans like, it's going right over my head. 

I think they had her dialed in perfectly in the S6 finale, and she's been getting a little more grating as S7 has gone on. For example she wasn't as bad as she was here as she was in "All Bottled Up," but even then I remember thinking during that episode she was starting to get on my nerves. At one point in this episode the thought of "with friend's like this..." crossed my mind while she was busy throwing Starlight under the bus.

If this is how Trixie really is, I can't say she'd be a close friend of mine in real life. People who's modus operandi is to talk about how great they are all the time (especially at my expense) end up on the short list of getting cut off. Needless to say you can probably guess I'm not a fan of the current US President for that reason alone, among others.

And speaking of politics, I didn't miss the subtext of showing that lefty, peace-loving types still have to have some kind of military to keep them safe. As has been stated already there are a multitude of themes presented here, and digging deeper it may be one of them is this episode is crying out for a return to middle-of-the-road politics, with Pharynx and Chrysalis' former group representing far right xenophobes and the new changelings representing far-left tree-hugging pansies. They portrayal is stereotypical, at least for the reformed changelings, but I think the episode did that to make sure it got the point across.

Though honestly I watch this show to escape politics, so I'm not entirely sure it's a good thing... <_<

And I have to agree with those that say Starlight was nerfed here for the sake of the plot. I could think of a couple of spells she might have used, like the crystal entrapment spell she used on Twi and Spike in the S5 finale. Or maybe mind control the beast? (Though maybe it only works on sapient creatures?) Or if nothing else teleport it with her far, far, away and then she could teleport back.

I didn't like he changed at the end, either. I was hoping there was room for both forms of changelings, especially if he could just be convinced to be closer to how his brother Thorax was before he was transformed. That is, give him the sparkly wings so he's not hungry and a include the better attitude, but keep his warrior-focused mindset.

And Spike couldn't be there, even though I really wanted him to be and would have made sense for him to visit his friend. (Maybe Starlight can only teleport one other being that far of a distance?) The scene with Starlight throwing Pharynx under the bus would have had Spike step in and not give up so easily, just like he did with Ember in GoF. Of course, it depends on which Spike you get: S6 Spike where he stood his ground almost every time or "Triple Threat" Spike. He really is like a box of chocolates, isn't he? 

It seemed jarring at first when Starlight suddenly thought he had to be told to leave, but @Jeric is correct that she was under a lot of peer pressure from all the other hive members to get rid of him, so I'm okay with it - though I myself wouldn't have given up so easily since it did come out of nowhere for me at first. Time constraints of the episode, I imagine.

The irony of Starlight giving a speech to convince a group instead of Spike is not lost on me, nor is the fact that her throwing Pharynx under the bus paralleled what Spike did to Thorax last season.  (And yes that was his one time last season he wimped out, but like Starlight, he had a really good reason to cave in.)

I'm torn once again whether to vote for liked or loved. I loved the thought-provoking aspects of the episode and there were a lot of funny moments and dialogue, but there are a few negatives and plot contrivances that are really noticeable. The message I was hoping to see in regards to retaining one's identity is there, but it's a lot more subtle than I hoped and is buried under some of the more prominent themes. I'll have to watch it a few more times - it's certainly worthy of that. 

Edited September 2, 2017 by Truffles

[Jeric 46,851]

20 minutes ago, CypherHoof said:

Or they just wanted a girly trip. This happens

Ha! That fits the joke I was going for in my OP ...

[Stardust Balance 7,739]

2 minutes ago, Truffles said:

I felt like it was over the top this time out, but if it's a joke she's playing up that her fans like, it's going right over my head. 

I think they had her dialed in perfectly in the S6 finale, and she's been getting a little more grating as S7 has gone on. For example she wasn't as bad as she was here as she was in "All Bottled Up," but even then I remember thinking during that episode she was starting to get on my nerves. At one point in this episode the thought of "with friend's like this..." crossed my mind while she was busy throwing Starlight under the bus.

If this is how Trixie really is, I can't says she'd be a close friend of mine in real life. People who's modus operandi is to talk about how great they are all the time (especially at my expense) end up on the short list of getting cut off. Needless to say you can probably guess I'm not a fan of the current US President for that reason alone, among others.

Yeah Trixie's inclusion was probably the least entertaining part of the episode.

[Jeric 46,851]

2 minutes ago, Truffles said:

The irony of Starlight giving the a speech to convince a group instead of Spike is not lost on me, nor is the fact that her throwing Pharynx under the bus paralleled what Spike did to Thorax last season.

That speech is really interesting, because it may be the first time we have seen signs of Starlight being an inspirational leader to a larger group, something she would have had to be decent at to have pulled off her Cutie Mark free cult. It was kinda refreshing to see that slightly different side of her, as she used her ability to convince a group for something decent. 

I can only imagine what she would have been thinking as they started off to find Salt Big, believing that she failed to inspire for a good cause. 

[Misty Shadow 7,861]

I'm happy to tell this "feelings forum" that I liked this episode. Trixie and Starlight played off each other really well, though their ineptitude was too much at certain parts for my taste. You would think that with the kind of magic Starlight knows, she could do something useful against that monster, geez.

[Jeric 46,851]

24 minutes ago, VG_Addict said:

What makes you think S1 Spike wouldn't have done that?

The person actually paid attention?

[CastletonSnob 3,074]

Just now, Jeric said:

The person actually paid attention?

I don't really see how he's different than he was in S1.

[Hierok 11,831]

Just now, VG_Addict said:

I don't really see how he's different than he was in S1.

In season 1 Spike was more a comic relieve character while he now is one of the mane characters.

[CastletonSnob 3,074]

Just now, Hierok said:

In season 1 Spike was more a comic relieve character while he now is one of the mane characters.

He's still a comic relief character.

[Dark Qiviut 22,393]

7 minutes ago, Truffles said:

I think they had her dialed in perfectly in the S6 finale, and she's been getting a little more grating as S7 has gone on. For example she wasn't as bad as she was here as she was in "All Bottled Up," but even then I remember thinking during that episode she was starting to get on my nerves.

In ABU, Trixie had an alibi. Trixie's style of magic is notoriously weak for a unicorn, and Starlight helped her study more complex magic. Transfiguring items into teacups and magically relocating the castle round table were such huge accomplishments for her, she got overexcited.

---

Pluses:
+ Dialogue was really great. The exchanges and clashing personalities provided excellent punchlines. Trixie and Starlight's exchanges and bruising of each other's egos brought forth great laughs.
+ Pharynx. He was a dude with a massive, warrior-driven edge. He hated what the hive became, because everyone had a false sense of security.
+ Thorax has great reason for keeping Pharynx in the hive despite everyone really beginning to despise him and wishing he was ejected.
+ Even though I can quite locate 'em yet, you can tell there were some mature messages here.

Minuses:
- The beginning was slow, and the dialogue was clunky till midway in Act 1.
- Starlight's plan was beyond stupid. You didn't think for one second that he might've overheard you talk shit about him and give the impression that he isn't wanted anymore? Remember, changelings can become anything! (Good for Thorax to call them out for that and their, to put it mildly, terrible behavior towards him.)
- The fight also had one major hole. Sure, they were out of practice, but they can change into other beings. Thorax did that after Ember yelled at Spike. Credit to @King Clark for noticing that.

A really good episode. Definitely on the right track.

[Hierok 11,831]

Just now, VG_Addict said:

He's still a comic relief character.

Not like he was in season 1. In the first episode Spike is throwed through the room like he was a puppet, while now his only comic is sassy comments. 

@Dark Qiviut Is everything alright?  You posted the same comment multipule times. 

Edited September 2, 2017 by Hierok

[Stardust Balance 7,739]

Spike's a unique case, development wise. His episodes are reserved mostly around making difficult decisions or acting out of childish reactions. We don't really see that much change in him because... Well I don't think we simply need to. He's still only a kid, acting just like one.

[Hierok 11,831]

1 minute ago, Stardust Balance said:

Spike's a unique case, development wise. His episodes are reserved mostly around making difficult decisions or acting out of childish reactions. We don't really see that much change in him because... Well I don't think we simply need to. He's still only a kid, acting just like one.

Is he? He is born when Twilight was like 5, while she is now like 24, which means he is 19. 

[Jeric 46,851]

2 minutes ago, Dark Qiviut said:

(Forum glitch.)

Gotta love those bugs

[Dark Qiviut 22,393]

3 minutes ago, Hierok said:

 

@Dark Qiviut Is everything alright?  You posted the same comment multipule times. 

Forum glitched on me for some reason. Sorry.

Just now, Jeric said:

Gotta love those bugs

LOL! XD

[Stardust Balance 7,739]

Just now, Hierok said:

Is he? He is born when Twilight was like 5, while she is now like 24, which means he is 19. 

...Aging and mental process may vary on different species. Also 24? After Equestria Girls? Kinda of a- Oh Christ I'm using Equestria Girls to argue my point?!

[Hierok 11,831]

Just now, Dark Qiviut said:

Forum glitched on me for some reason. Sorry.

I had that ones too. Very annoying. 

[CastletonSnob 3,074]

5 minutes ago, Hierok said:

Not like he was in season 1. In the first episode Spike is throwed through the room like he was a puppet, while now his only comic is sassy comments. 

@Dark Qiviut Is everything alright?  You posted the same comment multipule times. 

But I don't think he's more mature or has grown as a character since Season 1. 

[Hierok 11,831]

Just now, Stardust Balance said:

...Aging and mental process may vary on different species. Also 24? After Equestria Girls? Kinda of a- Oh Christ I'm using Equestria Girls to argue my point?!

I think Equestria girls still takes place when they are adults. I just believe they aren't humans like here, so maybe they graduate later. 

Just now, VG_Addict said:

But I don't think he's more mature or has grown as a character since Season 1. 

Not much, but that isn't necessary with him. He still is a character which you can put in multipule episodes and make interesting easy. 

[Stardust Balance 7,739]

Just now, VG_Addict said:

But I don't think he's more mature or has grown as a character since Season 1. 

Again, unlike the mares, Spike's a kid with a child's mind. Evidently he's not gonna mentally develop as much like the others.