spoiler Sapient vs Non Sapient

[GeekyPsycho 20]

There is an increasing number of sapient animals outside of Equestria, of which are non-sapient within Equestria. For example, Capper is sapient, but Opalescence isn't. Captain Celaeno is sapient, but Fluttershy's birds aren't. Within Equestria, ponies, griffons, dragons, buffalo, and cows are sapient, as well as other various appearances by episode. Are there certain laws governing sapient versus non sapient? If so does this apply to birth place, genetics, or by temporary location? What defines something as Sapient or Non Sapient in the My Little Pony universe?

Edited October 27, 2017 by GeekyPsycho

[Bendy 1,821]

Can they make spears... (or machine guns in the far future) craft armor and weapons out of iron. Build stuff like towns and stuff. If they can't do that then they are not sapient. Can they paint?

 

Edited October 23, 2017 by Bendy

[GeekyPsycho 20]

I guess I meant what separates species from themselves? (Cats from cats, birds from birds).

 

[Kyoshi Frost Wolf 41,622]

I believe it to be just different variants of the same species. It is like how humans are apes, but more intelligent than any other ape. Same rules could apply here. Just different evolutionary paths.

[ShadOBabe 18,997]

The word you’re looking for is sapient. Both Opal and Capper are sentient, but only Capper is sapient.

Edited October 24, 2017 by ShadOBabe

[Ashen Pathfinder 16,161]

To be fair; it's in Equestria as well. While the Diamond Dogs are sapient, Winona is not. And the case is same with deer when you bring in the comics.

It's an interesting predicament; too be sure.

[Luna the Great of all the Russias 2,986]

It could be that all or nearly all animals are sapient considering that Fluttershy can communicate with them. So the main distinction between the "animals" and "peoples" could be their ability to express complicated concepts verbally (despite being very well mentally capable); this can be accomplished by ponies, dragons, certain species of dog, etc. but not by bears, rabbits, beavers, etc. Perhaps a reason why they would prefer to live in the wilderness is because they would struggle to live as a "person" as their ability to speak is limited to gestures. As for the status of "animal", it could mean that they have no obligations to the state, such as paying taxes, and the state has no obligations to them, like law enforcement or access to public healthcare (if we were to assume Equestria has public healthcare).

Edited October 25, 2017 by Tsaritsa Luna

[Them's Seeing Ponies 282]

On ‎23‎/‎10‎/‎2017 at 0:52 AM, GeekyPsycho said:

Captain Celaeno is sentient, but Fluttershy's birds aren't. 

Isn't Captain Celaeno a harpy (or something similar) and not a bird? I could be wrong, but she does have external structures similar to 'ears' which Fluttershy's birds don't (although the 'art of' book on the movie does refer to them as parrots).

Either way, it probably is simply that they're all sentient (Opalescence may be nonsapient, for example, but she still displays clear sentience at points) but have evolved differently depending on their environment. Ponies are the main species in Equestria, so is there a need for any of the animals in the region to be sapient (in evolutionary or survival terms)? On the other hand, Klugetown is filled with sapient animals, but they live in pretty much the MLP universe's version of the frontier and their needs and adaptations obviously are different from the animals we see in Equestria.

 

Or it could just be mirroring the whole 'animals/Animals' conflict from Wicked. Who knows?

 

Edited October 26, 2017 by Them's Seeing Ponies

[GeekyPsycho 20]

On 10/24/2017 at 9:33 AM, ShadOBabe said:

The word you’re looking for is sapient. Both Opal and Capper are sentient, but only Capper is sapient.

Thank you

18 hours ago, Them's Seeing Ponies said:

is there a need for any of the animals in the region to be sapient (in evolutionary or survival terms)?

The show often brings in sapient characters of the same species as a non sapient creature, only when it will add flavor to the defining of that character, will add diversity and flavor to the story, or is necessary for the plot. In evolutionary and survival terms, none of it makes much sense. There may be some flukes in which something lines up, but I don't think the writers thought it all through.

 

18 hours ago, Them's Seeing Ponies said:

Isn't Captain Celaeno a harpy (or something similar) and not a bird? I could be wrong, but she does have external structures similar to 'ears' which Fluttershy's birds don't (although the 'art of' book on the movie does refer to them as parrots).

That is an interesting observation. I believe they also referred to them as parrots in the movie. Captain Celeano herself was originally designed to be a harpy, and "Celeano" comes from a harpy from Greek mythology.. Nevertheless, they went ahead and branded her as a parrot. 

[ShadOBabe 18,997]

Well what if there’s harpies based on multiple species of bird? Celaeno and her crew are of the parrot variety. Calling them parrots would’t really be wrong 

[Ganondox 899]

It’s kinda like how humans are sapient and monkeys aren’t, how odd. 

[GeekyPsycho 20]

On 10/27/2017 at 10:29 PM, Ganondox said:

It’s kinda like how humans are sapient and monkeys aren’t, how odd. 

I guess what bugs me is that there aren't really separate words, or classifications to differentiate sapient from non sapient. We call ourselves "humans" to differentiate from non sapient "apes" or "monkeys", but in the show, both Capper and Opalescent are referred to as "cats". There is no separate species to distinguish between sapient and non sapient.

[Ganondox 899]

2 hours ago, GeekyPsycho said:

I guess what bugs me is that there aren't really separate words, or classifications to differentiate sapient from non sapient. We call ourselves "humans" to differentiate from non sapient "apes" or "monkeys", but in the show, both Capper and Opalescent are referred to as "cats". There is no separate species to distinguish between sapient and non sapient.

They are obviously separate species though. In any language, common words operate on the genus level, NOT the species level. That's where the terms genus and species came from, genus for the general and species for the specific. Of course, humans are also a separate genus from any other great ape, but at the same time, we sometimes use the word cat to refer to any feline, not just members of felis, so it's not an unreasonable grouping. What needs to be kept in mind is words are created when it's useful to distinguish things. If the the ponies had known cat people for generations, they would certainly have a word to distinguish them, but they have apparently never encountered cat people before, which is why they simply call him a cat, it's the only word they have for the general idea of what Capper is. 

[Widdershins 9,960]

For one: Easiest Answer: Anthros are cannon in Equestria! Now Bronies & Furries no longer have ground to be pithy with each other! Lol!

  More accurately, it's because this is a kids' show, so it wants to blur the lines of sentience for good reason. We like pets, no doubt we've seen some of ours show pretty good intelligence where others of our species strike us as too dumb to survive long enough to hold down a job. Therefore, animal sentience and Dominant-Lifeform's close the gap significantly in Equestria. We've seen Angel Bunny supply more than enough sass & personality to outwit his own owner. Barry the Bear clearly shows enough intelligence to understand what Fluttershy wants from him to be a willing friend and participant in something like setting up parties for her friends. Animals in Equestria are smart enough to be endearing, even when they're threatening like Timber Wolves or Cragadiles. 

  Allow me to use Murlocs as an example. For those uninitiated, they're basically frog/fish people from the land of Azeroth in the game Warcraft. Clearly, they can communicate with each other, lead organized raids on towns to be a viable, low-level threat to adventurers. They can even build some very crude huts.... but that's rather where it ends with them. They can't build cities, governments, peace treaties with the nearby town so they're not hunted down on a regular basis to be soup ingredients, or learn to not worship larger creatures that ultimately view them as nothing more than a renewable food source. 

A bird and a Harpy, a pet cat and an anthropomorphic cat are simply not the same species. Like the cow-like Tauren of the aforesaid game, just because you happen to look like some of the wildlife doesn't mean you are one. There's two catergories as I see it: Critter & Creature. It's not to be said you can't have a genuine, loving relationship with your pet or an animal you're taking care of. But that doesn't mean that Angel Bunny is going to start up his own business and corner the market on something.

Gad, I sure hope he doesn't.....      

Crime Boss Angel... *shudder*

[Jeric 46,852]

Half the human beings I've met in my life are devoid of sapience, sometimes even if they are sagacious.

For instance, Angel occasionally demonstrates cognitive extra and intra awareness, can be shrewd, but is not consistently wise enough to be properly described as possessed of sapience. 

On 11/7/2017 at 10:33 PM, Widdershins said:

Anthros are cannon in Equestria!

They have been since the first episode. If you mean bipedalism, they have been since the first episode too. If you mean mammalian bipedalism with human characteristics, that too has been cannon since Dog and Pony Show. 

 

Words. Why use one when twenty will do?

[Widdershins 9,960]

Aye, If we had a pet rabbit display as much awareness and personality as Angel does, then we'd be trotting him through every sort of variety show possible. In the world of Equestria though, that's merely endearing. As I say, this is a kids' show World. No doubt, if the episode requires even a second on screen of some fish chatting it up with Fluttershy, never mind the moment a few seasons earlier when Fluttershy fed some fresh-killed fish to the local ferrets/otters she was taking care of.

  In short, sapience depends on the writers wishing that character to look like its interactable. Say, putting in a lizardman standing on his doorstep to signify that the main six are in a strange, potentially dangerous new land.

9 hours ago, Jeric said:

If you mean bipedalism, they have been since the first episode too.

  Well, always assumed Anthropomorphism went deeper then that; to a more mental degree, I would presume. Ponies themselves seem to fit more into a category of humanoid mind in a decidedly animal body, magic or not. As most cartoon characters do. Anthropomorphism seems to denote the warping of the form to a more Human Form, to follow the literal Latin. Or Greek. I think we all know I ain't done research here. Anthro=Body of; Sapient/Sentient= Mind of.

  Verily, I do concur with the sentiment I oft utilize. To whit: Implicate Lilliputian nomenclature in lieu of ersatz hippotomonstroesquipedalian vocabulary.