S08:E06 - Surf and/or Turf

[AlbaTross 1,581]

I missed this morning's livestream so I'll have to wait for a version of the episode to be uploaded that contains all the animation and sound.  As it stands I just can't watch the episode to my standards and will have to anxiously await the proper episode.  I really should have set my alarm this morning...

[Courageous Thunder Dash 7,821]

Such a great episode!! This one I knew was gonna be firing on all cylinders. No matter where you're from, even if it's made up of two worlds, you're still you and you can be part of both!

[Jonny Music 3,352]

LOVED THIS EPISODE! <3 MLP:FiM is back for good!

Spoiler

Also loved the "Porpoises" pun in the song (with the "high-five"), lol.

Very clever writing by the writing team at Hasbro Studios.  

Edited April 22, 2018 by Jonny Music

[Ganondox 899]

I think this was the best episode so far this season. There is one problem though. Anyone think the main reason this was a CMC episode was just so they would turn into seaponies? The Scootaloo flying bit was neat, but otherwise their particular personalities didn't contribute much. 

[DonMaguz 1,023]

5 minutes ago, Ganondox said:

Anyone think the main reason this was a CMC episode was just so they would turn into seaponies? The Scootaloo flying bit was neat, but otherwise their particular personalities didn't contribute much. 

That and the particular reason that the problem was about "choosing a path/destiny" which they are talented in.

[Ganondox 899]

2 minutes ago, DonMaguz said:

That and the particular reason that the problem was about "choosing a path/destiny" which they are talented in.

Eh, that's really stretching it. They aren't about choosing your destiny, but finding new purpose in your talents. 

1 hour ago, Jonny Music said:

LOVED THIS EPISODE! <3 MLP:FiM is back for good!

  Hide contents

Also loved the "Porpoises" pun in the song (with the "high-five"), lol.

Very clever writing by the writing team at Hasbro Studios.  

Well, to due that pun relied on rhyming it with tortoise, and Fluttershy would have some objections...

[Jonny Music 3,352]

2 minutes ago, Ganondox said:

Eh, that's really stretching it. They aren't about choosing your destiny, but finding new purpose in your talents. 

Well, to due that pun relied on rhyming it with tortoise, and Fluttershy would have some objections...

3

Doesn't stop me from enjoying the episode. It was very relatable and I can empathize with Terramar.

This episode is already another very memorable one, in my opinion.

This Season is really impressing me thus far, and I have very little complaints (which is a good thing for me, since I don't want to waste time on complaints I have about the show when I have better things to do IRL in the meantime).

[Silver Letter 1,832]

What a delightful episode. I only wished I saw the queen or princess. They would have wanted to see Twilight so I don't get why they didn't have them show up, even if they would have remained silent. Anyway, I feel that this problem the crusaders went on could have been solved by the Hippogriff himself. It felt like it sort of solved itself on its own? The two kinds of creatures are co-mingling often already. But, regardless, the moral of the story is nice. I believe it is about a person trying to decide what kind of person they should be. For a person with multiple heritages, they have the freedom to move between them. They don't have to stay locked with one identity. It's definitely a departure from the crusaders who have always been trying to help others find that one pathway in life.

[Truffles 2,033]

4 hours ago, Nyactis Mewcis Catlum said:

Not all of those who have a divorce hate each other, that's why DQ was praising the whole thing. Some divorces do happen simply because the two individuals have completely different lifestyles that aren't sustainable if the two of them stay together while keeping their intimacy. It's a common reason for splits in relationships that is often not depicted in media because drama is more entertaining than amicable separation.

If the two of them are supposed to be a couple who has a child but they live completely separately and the child is still, well, a child, it's an educated guess at worst that the two of them are at the very least no longer together.

True, and I agree with @Dark Qiviut that the themes presented in this episode provide a very positive educational message to kids who are in this situation. I was only questioning whether they were divorced vs. separated because it sounded like it was a fact vs. a supposition that they were divorced instead of separated, and I was wondering if I had somehow missed a hint the episode had dropped that indicated without a doubt divorce over separation.

One thing that's worth mentioning is if they are really divorced, then was there a visitation agreement that was signed? Did the agreement say he was to pick one parent or the other? It would be a very effective reason as to the whole "why he had to make a choice" aspect of the conflict, though I don't recall him ever stating such a thing. If they are divorced and that wasn't part of the agreement, then there's a plothole because (legally) he has no say over who he stays with or how long he gets to visit each of them.

I also agree that whether it's divorce or separation, the child is still saddled with having to deal with the pain of a split family. But to me divorce seems more permanent compared to separation, seeing that all the assets have been divided and visitation rights have been decided. I think it might even give Terramar hope if they were only separated since divorced couples are less likely to get back to together than separated ones, statistically speaking.

I suppose it could be a "permanent separation" - that is, one without an actual legal document and they are "technically" still married with an irreconcilable difference that one prefers to breathe air and the other prefers to breathe water. That would be a pretty big irreconcilable difference, I suppose, lol. Unless one of them was willing to compromise, they couldn't physically live together. Maybe that's the point the episode was trying to make to portray them as effectively divorced even if there is no document stating as such?

4 hours ago, Nyactis Mewcis Catlum said:

It's probably the first time that she's felt truly free and not like an outlier among her species, which is no doubt a problem that bothers her on a consistent basis. For someone to suggest that the place that gave her that freedom is worthy of that criticism, and that could feel like an utter slap to the face to her.

With them being children themselves, and what with Scootaloo's own confirmed lack of support from her own parents as well, it only makes sense that she would cling so tightly onto that (makes sense in a rather heart-wrenching way, at that).

Indeed. While I loved Sweetie's passion over the grove, I admit I have to take a side and agree with Scootaloo in their argument over who had the better reason for liking a place better. For her, it was a matter of overcoming adversity whereas, like you stated, Sweetie Belle's liking it was just a matter of personal opinion.

 

[Misty Shadow 7,621]

Yea verily, this was good. Surprised that there was no Queen Novo or acknowledgement of Twilight's mishap of trying to steal the pearl, but they still tied things in with the movie fairly well. It's another one of those episodes where the strongest part is the moral, no one should feel forced to choose an identity, we're all a sum of our parts. I also liked how well Sweetie Belle and Scootaloo played the part of biased researchers and journalists telling people like Terramar what choices they should make based on their own personal experiences and tastes, and how both of them are portrayed as in the wrong for doing so. Glad this show's writers aren't like the writers of the Powerpuff Girls reboot.

[AlbaTross 1,581]

Ok, I was finally able to watch the episode.  I had to be creative and look up a blind reaction vid that isn't mirrored.  Anyways, I think this is a great episode and it really expands on the concept of the hippogriffs.  I will say that the part where Sweetiebelle and Scootaloo disagree and then fight is overplayed and I definitely saw it coming, but otherwise I think it's solid.  

[Will Guide 21,357]

10 hours ago, Dark Qiviut said:

Back when I watched the leaks the first time, seeing Ocean Flow and Skybeak talk amicably with each other was such a pleasant surprise. Sometimes when you think of divorce, both in media and not, you think of the parents disliking or hating each other. This isn't the case: Neither of them live together anymore, but they still like each other and respect both each other and their kids. The ending where they apologize to Terramar for making him think he had to choose was a beautifully mature touch.

The moral at the end — "Families remain family, even if they live in more than one place or don't live together anymore" — is really good, too.

That was a point I was trying to make earlier. It's nice to see a "divorced" couple that still cares for each other like Skybeak and Ocean Flow.

10 hours ago, Sparklefan1234 said:

 

It's like saying "hibernate" instead of "die" in "Tanks for the Memories"?

Also, I'm glad Terramar's parents don't seem bitter with each other, as that could potentially ruin the message they're trying to convey.

 

 

Tank never died in the show. He came back in later episodes.

[MystMane 6]

If he initially couldn't choose, why didn't they send him to Twilight's school instead of Silverstream who was perfectly content with soaring the skies above Mount Aris?

Edited April 22, 2018 by MystMane

[Lambdadelta 1,462]

This is a very "standard" episode, it has divorce which is a very sensitive subject for kids, I give it A+ for morals but on the other hand, the episode is a bit dull, not many funny jokes, not many memorable moments. The dialogues are just "standard", they are too forgettable, I prefer Nick Confalone, or M.A Larson kind of dialogues, they are usually very fun to hear, even they has many good one-liners. The song visuals are fun to watch but the song itself is meh, it isn't even mlp standard, songs should be the best things from this show that people will sing them over and over. The episodes feel like it take a long time to get to the main conflict, it took 9 minutes to the conflicts, which is weird because Rarity Takes Manehattan and Flight to Finish took over half of the episode to introduce the conflict but I didn't feel like 'I am bored now, where's the conflicts?', because they are just ENTERTAINING to watch. I give it a 7.

Random:

- It's very sad to not see Queen Novo and her lovely daughter because celebrities are expensive. They have to come up with a ton of Excuses to not show these characters from the movie ON SCREEN.

- Twilight is very fine with the fact that she was the one who stole the Pearl from seaponies and returning to that place didn't remind her that atrocity.

- Exposition train again. THey have to remind us the movie is sequel of S8.

- Terramar is  so cute, its good to see more likable male character of the show.

- Diving feels like flying to Scootaloo? Oh shit, my heart.... ahhhhhhhhh *Scootalove intensifying*

- Twilight feel unnessary in this ep but young kids need adults when traveling to corner of the world so, yeah...

- I like the solution in the end, just live near the shore, brilliant! 

- Damn Sweetie Bell, let Scootaloo enjoy 'flying', please! You don't know how to feel like you are flying again when you are a handicapped Pegasus! 

- SEA-SCOOTALOO IS THE BEST!!! 

 

[Dark Qiviut 22,321]

10 hours ago, AlexanderThrond said:

The hippogriff niceness is at least toned down here, but I really do feel it robs them of complexity. I have no interest in a society of do-gooders. 

The hippogriff and seapony culture is really important. When the Storm King terrorized Mount Aris, they lived in hiding, and the audience didn't get to see their culture. His demise allows many of them to finally relocate back to their original homeland, some of them not in many years. They're very celebratory for a reason: They can celebrate their lives.

10 hours ago, AlexanderThrond said:

And I’m sure this mora has resonance for a lot of people, but for me it’s sort of hard to relate to. I don’t even know why Terramar felt the need to choose. What are the pressures on him to do so? Is this expectation something actual kids feel in this exact scenario? I don’t know that, so I would like more context. This isn’t empathetic art, it’s a lecture.

@Nyactis Mewcis Catlum pointed this out in her response to @Truffles. Children depend on a stable home environment, something the hippogriffs lacked for years. Now, for the first time in many of their lives, they have the ability to live in a stable home. Most hippogriffs decided where to live, including most of Terramar's family; this is where the pressure comes from, explicitly stated in the show. Neither Skybeak now Ocean Flow could agree where to live, hence the split, and Terramar is subconsciously living on an island. To him, if he doesn't choose, then it's as if how he lives is no better than when the Storm King conquered Mount Aris, but if he does choose, then he says goodbye to one side of his family, and that kills him. This literal dilemma hurts him deeply inside, and that's crushing for him, since he's a kid who wants to belong.

11 hours ago, AlexanderThrond said:

What do the CMC add here?

12 hours ago, ShootingStar159 said:

Map episodes are supposed to be about characters using what they know and what they’re capable of to guide or fix a problem. But here, the CMC’s don’t really do that, the solution to the problem is something that anyone could have done, not just them.

History is a big factor. Prior to Lost Mark, they spent a large chunk of their childhood searching for who they are; the Map trusted them to use their own history to help guide Terramar into deciding where to live. Unfortunately, when they tried to help him, their own biases and tastes kick in, and they were using their feelings to blindly determine his home for him, leading to their fight and further confusion. They had to learn how their fight was only hurting him further, and after seeing his mom and dad be amicable to each other, they were able to figure out how to solve his dilemma.

8 hours ago, eventyraren said:

I feel like this was a divorce episode, A kids parents divorce and s/he feels he has to choose with who to live, only without the divorce.

It's very clearly a divorce episode, but here, the divorce already happened, hence the script's lack of need to say it. I already wrote a post earlier in the thread, but this episode deals with a situation of a divorce's impact through a child's eyes.

14 hours ago, Dark Qiviut said:

Quote

Terramar: Like I said, Mount Aris is one great place to live. That's why Silverstream and my dad and some of my cousins came back here. *stares at water* But Seaquestria is another great place to live. That's where my mom is.

Sweetie Belle: Ohhhhh. I…I didn't know that.

Terramar: So, no matter where I am, I feel like I let someone down.

Emphasis mine.

A few decades ago, Mister Rogers discussed divorce from two kids' perspectives. They felt that their parents' divorce was their own fault. You can find that clip on YT, if it's still up. And feeling guilty for their divorce is common among children.

That feeling of self-guilt is similar to that from Terramar, hence the heavy divorce implications. He feels guilty having to choose where to live, because to him, he lets part of his family down. As if it's he feels partly at fault they separated. The more you think about it, the sadder this exchange is.

[Cash In 22,008]

Finally, we're starting to have some decent episodes this season. :p

I liked it and the subject of divorce was a very interesting theme to build an episode on. Having the CMC tackle it worked pretty well too, so I'll give it points for that. Introducing the hippogirffs also opens a lot more doors and possibilities for future episodes down the track.

[KH7672 1,604]

Okay, what is it with interactions with Seaponies/Hippogriffs leading to friends falling out?

Besides that strange nuance, I enjoyed this episode mostly for the group dynamic of the CMC. I'm glad it didn't feel like we were following three interchangeable characters around. It gets boring when their group is treated like one character experiencing the conflict where it be difficult to point out who contributed what because they all just blend together. However here I could easily enjoy their individual character interactions off each other. Sweetie Belle was clearly the best and cutest performance (What? No I'm not biased ) but seriously I loved her enthusiasm for one world and vocal dislike for the other, it shows varied and realistic range of emotions and I love when differing opinions perpetuate a conflict, it makes all the characters feel like they need to learn and have learned something. I would have even loved for Scootaloo to voice more of her negative opinion on Mount Aris but the song made up for that especially for getting to hear Claire and Arielle sing solo (your singing will be missed Maddie...even the intentionally bad times). I loved Apple Bloom's supporting role here as well going against the common characterization of her being the de facto leader or driving the conflict. All in all a great outing for the CMC.

Now one last observation: Is it me or was that walking down the stairs animation near the beginning very off or uncanny to anyone else?

Edited April 22, 2018 by KH7672

[CastletonSnob 3,053]

How is the season so far, in your opinion?

[Jonny Music 3,352]

1 hour ago, VG_Addict said:

How is the season so far, in your opinion?

Really good so far. No regrets from watching it so far.

[Truffles 2,033]

7 hours ago, MystMane said:

If he initially couldn't choose, why didn't they send him to Twilight's school instead of Silverstream who was perfectly content with soaring the skies above Mount Aris?

Huh. That's actually not a bad idea, or even send both kids while the parents try to work on a compromise.

Though we really don't know how Terramar feels about being taught alongside other species. He may be nervous about it. Also he may simply love Mt Aris and Seaquestia too much to want to go away for a few years.

If his parents had not had such an amicable parting, he may have been more inclined to get away from such an unpleasant situation. 

[Jeric 46,848]

21 hours ago, SwitchGuy2018 said:

I wanted to make one thing quite clear:Everyone I talked to who saw the leaked version claimed the episode was about Divorce. But Really. That’s NOT the focus. It’s about Terramar feeling he has to choose between 2 worlds. Besides, I wanted to empathize that unlike most divorced couples I’ve seen in media, the parents love each other. It’s just one decided to live on land and the other under the sea. Besides, the parents never said they were divorced.

So you have no first hand accounting of divorce? Ok. Allow me to disabuse you of the notion that media is an accurate representation of reality. 

As a child of divorce between two people who continued to love each other even after the divorce, this episode most certainly nailed some elements of the uncertainty a child has to consider when there is an amicable separation. 

 

Episode was really really decent. 

[ggg-2 3,552]

I admit, i'm still confused why the map called the CMC. The divorce allegory is clear here, and while we obviously still don't know anything about Scootaloo's home life, divorce doesn't seem like anything the CMC would have experience with. Bright Mac and Buttercup were very happily married before their passing, and while we don't see them very often, Hondo Flanks and Cookie Crumbles seem content.

[Jeric 46,848]

1 minute ago, ggg-2 said:

I admit, i'm still confused why the map called the CMC. The divorce allegory is clear here, and while we obviously still don't know anything about Scootaloo's home life, divorce doesn't seem like anything the CMC would have experience with. Bright Mac and Buttercup were very happily married before their passing, and while we don't see them very often, Hondo Flanks and Cookie Crumbles seem content.

And there was no evidence in this episode that the relationship between the two parents was not amicable, so you pointed out three amicable relationships. Hard to contrast. 

Guys, you realize a failed marriage doesn't mean both parents have to hate each other, right? 

[Will Guide 21,357]

8 minutes ago, Jeric said:

So you have no first hand accounting of divorce? Ok. Allow me to disabuse you of the notion that media is an accurate representation of reality. 

As a child of divorce between two people who continued to love each other even after the divorce, this episode most certainly nailed some elements of the uncertainty a child has to consider when there is an amicable separation. 

 

Episode was really really decent. 

Jeric, you didn't have to tell me this. Someone else already told me the same thing. And my stepfamily comes a divorce woman, so I know how it works.

And I never said media is an accurate represention of reality. When did I ever said those exact words.

15 minutes ago, ggg-2 said:

I admit, i'm still confused why the map called the CMC. The divorce allegory is clear here, and while we obviously still don't know anything about Scootaloo's home life, divorce doesn't seem like anything the CMC would have experience with. Bright Mac and Buttercup were very happily married before their passing, and while we don't see them very often, Hondo Flanks and Cookie Crumbles seem content.

Why did the Map sent the CMC, you ask?

Because as we saw with the CMC, Sweetie Belle loved Harmonizing Heights and understands why Terramar wants to be a Hippogriff on land. Scootaloo loved being down in Seaquestria and understands why he wants to be a seapony under the sea. Both Apple Bloom and Twilight felt the pressure Terramar felt having to choose one or the other. So, rather than choose, they were able to get both worlds to meet in the middle. And that's why the Map sent the CMC.

[Jeric 46,848]

50 minutes ago, SwitchGuy2018 said:

And I never said media is an accurate represention of reality. When did I ever said those exact words.

Exact? You didn't. But you tend to lack precision when you communicate so there's that. I was going based on your opening which sets up a rebuttal to the fact that everyone who spoke with you regarding the episode prior to airing suggested it is about divorce, then marginalized that as the focus. You followed that up by underscoring your interpretation of the theme, and after that you said that you wanted to empathize (assuming you meant emphasize) that the media depicts divorce as contentious, which is not the case in this episode. 

The placement of this order suggests, when coupled with you often agressive mode of demanding optimistic reviews of the characters, that you don't dislike the idea of an amicable separation. It would also stand to reason that you don't know much about the impact of divorce as you buttressed with a comment about it's media depiction not matching how FiM may have depicted it, yet also outlined the exact emotional state and quandary of a child of divorce (caught between two world's). 

So yeah, my inference wasn't particularly out of order considering how you presented your point.