Should racist/bigots in the fandom be exposed?

[Mesme Rize 15,681]

2 minutes ago, Annie said:

I'm glad you brought up Antifa because everyone who does has no clue what they actually stand for. First of all, they're anarcho-communists. The anti-fascist message is primary but the reason why you see so many Antifa protesters rioting and "tearing the city apart" is because they're revolutionary anarchists. Conservatives and right-wingers hate Antifa because for all intents and purposes, they are the new punk-rock. Calling them fascists in itself is kind of an oxymoron because fascism is a far-right nationalistic and authoritarian ideology, and Antifa is the direct opposite of "authoritarian". This notion of how they just want to destroy free speech is absolute nonsense because, well, they're anarchists. Punching nazis and fascists isn't "suppressing free speech", it's radically expressing it. Just to reiterate, I have no sympathy for nazis, fascists, or bigots, and I have no obligation to tolerate intolerance. Also, Antifa has a grand total of 0 casualties to its name last I checked.

Okay, i see you wanna believe what you want. So i just have to agree to disagree with you

Have a nice day.

[Simcity11100 771]

I understand that both sides of the argument have their extremist however we must understand that one of the important parts of freedom of speech is protecting what ever one says about something and let them freely peacefully express that said thing however they like.  If you don't agree to that then there's nothing else for us to talk about as you would be against one of the fundamental rights that we have.  I believe that people should freely express their opinions peacefully, now I'm not saying I agree with someone that is considered racist or whatever, but that's where arguments come in.  In my opinion, if said person is being forced offline by others because of what they said then the group in question that forced them offline are no better than a socialist that censors freedom of speech.  Now I don't seek to win any argument here because that's not what I believe arguments should be used for, I will simply peacefully disagree with the person and let them walk their own path if they disagree with my argument.

Edited April 7, 2018 by Simcity11100

[Nyactis Mewcis Catlum 670]

43 minutes ago, Annie said:

I'm glad you brought up Antifa because everyone who does has no clue what they actually stand for. First of all, they're anarcho-communists. The anti-fascist message is primary but the reason why you see so many Antifa protesters rioting and "tearing the city apart" is because they're revolutionary anarchists. Conservatives and right-wingers hate Antifa because for all intents and purposes, they are the new punk-rock. Calling them fascists in itself is kind of an oxymoron because fascism is a far-right nationalistic and authoritarian ideology, and Antifa is the direct opposite of "authoritarian". This notion of how they just want to destroy free speech is absolute nonsense because, well, they're anarchists. Punching nazis and fascists isn't "suppressing free speech", it's radically expressing it. Just to reiterate, I have no sympathy for nazis, fascists, or bigots, and I have no obligation to tolerate intolerance. Also, Antifa has a grand total of 0 casualties to its name last I checked.

Assault is not an "expression of free speech". It's a crime. It is not, and never has been, protected under free speech. Punching people counts as assault. Tearing the city apart would count as vandalism, which is also not counted under free speech.

I'm a left-winger and I hate Antifa, not because they are the "new punk-rock", but because they're literally assaulting people and damaging property.

 

On topic, because this is off topic, but I stand by what I said earlier in the thread. Racists generally expose themselves as others have said, and I caution the mentality of "exposing" people to begin with. Many of the people who would argue for that now used to espouse pretty ignorant stuff themselves when they were younger.

[Jeric 46,835]

On 4/5/2018 at 10:10 AM, ShadowSJG said:

So lately, I've come across bigots in the fandom such as a certain person who have expressed racist views. Due to this, I was wondering, should bigots be exposed for who they are in the fandom? I know someone who wants to get him banned from cons due to this.

If by exposed, you mean doxxed, absolutely not. Nobody is an island unto themselves. 

On 4/5/2018 at 10:18 AM, Mesme Rize said:

if anything, people should be a bit more tolerant towards someones opinions.

I talked with Aleximus a few times and he is a very nice guy. Just because he has right views, dosen't make him a racist. People these days are just too quick when it comes to judging somebody.

 

Agreed with the rush to judge someone, disagree with the implication that one should be more tolerant to other views in context with general bigotry and racism. I'll walk away from a friendship in a second if I discover someone is an asshole, or racist, irrespective of how long you kept that hidden. 

[Goat-kun 2,500]

1 hour ago, Annie said:

I'm glad you brought up Antifa because everyone who does has no clue what they actually stand for. First of all, they're anarcho-communists. The anti-fascist message is primary but the reason why you see so many Antifa protesters rioting and "tearing the city apart" is because they're revolutionary anarchists. Conservatives and right-wingers hate Antifa because for all intents and purposes, they are the new punk-rock. Calling them fascists in itself is kind of an oxymoron because fascism is a far-right nationalistic and authoritarian ideology, and Antifa is the direct opposite of "authoritarian". This notion of how they just want to destroy free speech is absolute nonsense because, well, they're anarchists. Punching nazis and fascists isn't "suppressing free speech", it's radically expressing it. Just to reiterate, I have no sympathy for nazis, fascists, or bigots, and I have no obligation to tolerate intolerance. Also, Antifa has a grand total of 0 casualties to its name last I checked.

I'm sorry but National Socialism is not right-wing. It is you who does not understand what right wing means, which is why you screech at everything that opposes your worldview and mark it as far right. Antifa is, for all intents and purposes, nothing more than a bunch of masked hooligans who use vague excuses to hurt people they don't like since they seem to be intellectually incapable of debate. I'm also sorry to inform you that the new punk-rock are the politically inhomogeneous shitlords who are close to the center.

 

And do I really need to post them angry mob attack with sticks, bike locks, and destruction of private property of innocent bystanders? They are all over the internet and they all belong to Antifa. You and fascists are siblings from the same litter.

 

And just so we're clear: I'm one of those people who thinks that the government has the obligation to protect my rights which include the right to own property. If you want to live like chimps go deport yourselves to your own little communes and leave normies alone. You are not exercising freedom of speech since that does not include freedom to destroy property or threaten people with violence.

[ShadowSJG 62]

37 minutes ago, Jeric said:

If by exposed, you mean doxxed, absolutely not. Nobody is an island unto themselves. 

Agreed with the rush to judge someone, disagree with the implication that one should be more tolerant to other views in context with general bigotry and racism. I'll walk away from a friendship in a second if I discover someone is an asshole, or racist, irrespective of how long you kept that hidden. 

I didn't judge and no doxxing. I have evidence of his racism.

[Mesme Rize 15,681]

5 minutes ago, ShadowSJG said:

I didn't judge and no doxxing. I have evidence of his racism.

Dosen't matter. You try to ruin his life with these very heavy accusations and even if he said something that might be racist, dosen't make him a full fledged nazi.

It could just be, that he worded it badly.

[Gestum 2,493]

Everyone has a right to have their opionion regardless of how stupid it may be, so I don't think that we should expose them. Also it's not like exposing them is actually going to result in anything other than their martyr complex growing larger.

1 hour ago, Mesme Rize said:

because witch hunters who scream racism, are not better then the nazis they try to fight.

Nazis: Want to exterminate everyone who they deem worth less then them.

The witch hunters: Calls people names.

Yeah, that sounds about the same to me.

[Mesme Rize 15,681]

Just now, Gestum said:

Nazis: Want to exterminate everyone who they deem worth less then them.

The witch hunters: Calls people names.

Yeah, that sounds about the same to me.

Witch hunters can be just as violent. Nazis are not the only bad guys in this world.

And i never said that i sympathize with nazis.

[Gestum 2,493]

15 minutes ago, Mesme Rize said:

Witch hunters can be just as violent. Nazis are not the only bad guys in this world.

Perhaps. However the witch hunters in this scenario aren't the ones who support the ideology that put mllions people in death camp. So I don't think  that's it's fair to compare the two sides.

15 minutes ago, Mesme Rize said:

And i never said that i sympathize with nazis

Of course not. I never said that you did. After all who would? However you do seem reather quick to defened them and point out that both sides are bad.

Edited April 7, 2018 by Gestum

[ShadOBabe 18,984]

3 minutes ago, Gestum said:

However you do seem reather quick to defened them and point out that both sides are bad.

He never defended Nazis in any of his posts. He just said that attempting to act as thought police is as bad.

Though considering that a certain subset of people label ANYONE who is right of center a “Nazi”, That can cause some confusion.

[GeekySonic 1,150]

There's a lot of back-and-forth over who means what when who says this, but back on the topic of "exposing racists in the fandom":

 

Yeah. Absolutely. Now, nobody is saying that we should go around the circle calling everyone names, but if there is someone actively promoting and encouraging hate for the sake of hate, then yeah, we should know. Because call me crazy, but I think racism doesn't belong in a fandom dedicated to My Little Pony. "Tolerating" racism implies that it is okay, and that there are no consequences for it. It is not okay, and there should be consequences.

 

I've owned up to this before on this very site, but I used to be racist, and homophobic. Because that's how I was raised to be. That's humiliating for me, but in all the time I've been here, I've never been punished for it. Because I learned, and I changed, so I was not being reprimanded for how I used to be. I've said some other dumb shit, and I didn't get off scot-free for that either. And believe it or not, in real life I faced consequences for the way I acted. But I still grew to learn better. I would hope most people can, but you need to learn somehow.

 

 If you are racist, it isn't a case of "differing opinions". You can say crunchy peanut butter is the best, and I'll say creamy is better. That's a difference of opinions. Being racist isn't "having an opposing viewpoint". It means you're trash. For however long that remains is up to you.

[Twiggy 2,965]

OP claims to have evidence of someone's racism. 

Does this evidence come with all the context involved?

Even more importantly, why should anyone give a damn about this particular individual. Was Lauren Faust caught on tape saying [racism 1] or something?

Edited April 7, 2018 by Twiggy

[honk friend 1,972]

1 hour ago, Scootaloved said:

Assault is not an "expression of free speech". It's a crime. It is not, and never has been, protected under free speech. Punching people counts as assault. Tearing the city apart would count as vandalism, which is also not counted under free speech.

I'm a left-winger and I hate Antifa, not because they are the "new punk-rock", but because they're literally assaulting people and damaging property.\

Yes I know that that's assault, but I also have no sympathy for fascists and bigots so I really don't care.

47 minutes ago, Goat-kun said:

I'm sorry but National Socialism is not right-wing. It is you who does not understand what right wing means, which is why you screech at everything that opposes your worldview and mark it as far right. Antifa is, for all intents and purposes, nothing more than a bunch of masked hooligans who use vague excuses to hurt people they don't like since they seem to be intellectually incapable of debate. I'm also sorry to inform you that the new punk-rock are the politically inhomogeneous shitlords who are close to the center.

 

 

 

 

And do I really need to post them angry mob attack with sticks, bike locks, and destruction of private property of innocent bystanders? They are all over the internet and they all belong to Antifa. You and fascists are siblings from the same litter.

 

 

 

And just so we're clear: I'm one of those people who thinks that the government has the obligation to protect my rights which include the right to own property. If you want to live like chimps go deport yourselves to your own little communes and leave normies alone. You are not exercising freedom of speech since that does not include freedom to destroy property or threaten people with violence.

Wow, there's a lot to unpack here.

First of all, great job making assumptions about me. If I "don't understand what right wing means" then you're not setting a very good example to me. You could've approached me a lot more respectfully than telling me I screech at everything I think is far right and want to live like a chimp in a commune, and you would've come off a lot less like a hypocrite too. Second, I never mentioned national socialism, but if you want to go there, the entire point of socialism is an egalitarian society where the means of production are collectively owned. The Nazis weren't socialists, they were nationalists, and nationalism is right-wing. If the Nazis were more concerned with socialism than nationalism, they'd take care of their perceived issue with Jewish people by deconstructing the market and banks instead of taking the Jewish people who run them and forcing them in to hard labor and gas chambers. Just because a party adopted the name "socialist" doesn't mean you get to blame the left for what it did. You don't see me blaming the right for the great leap forward and holodomor, so quit blaming the actions of your side of the spectrum on mine.

[Jeric 46,835]

1 hour ago, ShadowSJG said:

I didn't judge and no doxxing. I have evidence of his racism.

You missed one element of my post. How would exposing this unnamed individual impact others, both positively and negatively? Being labeled a racist can have consequences for people other than the racist, and you should always consider this. What is the specific proof, without naming the individual? Some racism leads to significant impact to innocent people, and some does not. If the person has no power over others, and has privately stated something you hate, it just shows that the person is a dick. As @Goat-kun suggested, hashing it out privately may be a better option that a call for torches and pitchforks. 

[Ashen Pathfinder 16,152]

I wanted to leave this thread alone as valid discussion was present, but as it stands we're far away from that now.

We're done here; locking.