S09:E13 - Between Dark and Dawn

[KatonRyu 1,033]

While this episode had its moments, by and large it just seemed to dumb down everyone involved, or them into massive jackasses.

First, Celestia and Luna interfering with everything. Kind of funny, but both are well over one thousand years old, and they're known to have fought very powerful villains in their day. Their level of competency here was really bad, even if they've been out of practice for a while. I did like Rainbow Dash's reaction to the whole thing, though.

Next, Fancy Pants. Back in Sweet and Elite, he was the sole upper class pony who was decent. Here, he behaves just as much like a snob as his counterparts. Yes, Twilight dismissed him, but he didn't strike me as the kind of pony who would immediately take offense to such a thing, especially since Twilight's rather neurotic nature about responsibilities is common knowledge in-universe since their publication of the friendship journal, which Fancy Pants certainly would have read. Then they just go 'oh, we need to delegate' and the problem instantly vanishes. I know they weren't the focus of this episode, but All Bottled Up sometimes showed what the Mane Six were up to in their escape room and managed to paint a cohesive and tongue-in-cheek picture while at the same time devoting most of its attention to the main plot. Basically, the festival-plot felt a bit rushed.

Okay, but what about the main event, then? Celestia and Luna on a holiday, should be fun. Well...their tastes are portrayed as being very different, they have a falling out, they're miserable, and they reconcile in the span of what seems like five minutes. It's just too fast to be fulfilling in any way. Again, in another episode the contrast and conflict between the sisters was portrayed much better: A Royal Problem. The communication between the Princesses caused friction, Starlight swaps their roles for a day, and both sisters gain appreciation for the work the other does, all of it portrayed in a straightforward and believable way. Here, again, the entire conflict sets itself up and then resolves itself almost immediately.

Lastly, the amulet they gave to Twilight. Twilight has held the Princesses' magic before, in Twilight's Kingdom. Back then, she struggled to control the power, but she managed to do better than she did here. It's a fine visual joke, but in my eyes it just doesn't make too much sense.

All in all, the episode was okay, but not one of my favorites.

[Splashee 28,563]

On 6/30/2019 at 7:21 AM, AlexanderThrond said:

I hate Twilight becoming Celestia’s successor as well, but I don’t get too upset about that because I feel it’s no different from when she became a princess, which I was never satisfied with. Twilight has never seemed like she wants to be a princess. I’m trying to roll with it now, but I’ll probably get mad when it comes to fruition in the finale. 

(I still like this episode though)

Glad I am not the only one who think Twilight is being pushed into becoming the ruler of Equestria, when she clearly is freaking out about it and no one is caring about it. Also seeing the rest of the Main 6 being somewhat taken out of their context to just rule by her side is odd, since they do have their duties established even as late as in the episode "Going to Seed".

 

[Thrond 3,263]

3 hours ago, Splashee said:

Glad I am not the only one who think Twilight is being pushed into becoming the ruler of Equestria, when she clearly is freaking out about it and no one is caring about it. Also seeing the rest of the Main 6 being somewhat taken out of their context to just rule by her side is odd, since they do have their duties established even as late as in the episode "Going to Seed".

I think there's a lot of inconsistencies in the idea - I had thought that Twilight and Cadance already ruled Equestria alongside Celestia and Luna, as seen in the first Equestria Girls movie. And I can't remember many times where Twilight seemed excited about her title, whereas I can think of several off the top of my head where it made her anxious or sad. But I've enjoyed the individual steps of the process this season enough to look past that for now. 

I will say that the one thing that makes me appreciate it more than when she first became a princess is that it's not being presented as a reward. We all know that Twilight would probably be good at ruling Equestria, and I like that they're leaning into the practical considerations instead of trying to give it some emotional meaning. 

[Splashee 28,563]

1 hour ago, AlexanderThrond said:

I had thought that Twilight and Cadance already ruled Equestria alongside Celestia and Luna, as seen...

This made me remember how Netflix calls "Mi Amore" Celestia's niece in the description of the episode "A Canterlot Wedding" (it still does)



Well, there are of course other parts of this episode that bugs me, like how the new singing voice for Luna sounds too much like Celestia's voice. And some of the new facial expressions of the princesses.

[Senko 459]

14 hours ago, Splashee said:

This made me remember how Netflix calls "Mi Amore" Celestia's niece in the description of the episode "A Canterlot Wedding" (it still does)



Well, there are of course other parts of this episode that bugs me, like how the new singing voice for Luna sounds too much like Celestia's voice. And some of the new facial expressions of the princesses.

It does have a lot of problems especially since we've seen Twilight doing a lot of paperwork, summits and other princess duties alongside Celestia, possibly more than Luna given her night shift nature. Like I said its not a bad "episode" taking alone but taken as part of the established continuity and it just has them out of character from where I sit.

The characters are being forced into a specific role to allow the story to be told rather than the story being told in a way that fits with the characters. Even if you retained the Celestia, Luna want some time off together with Twilight taking on more duties it could be done more in character. Have Celestia wanting to take advantage of the quiet times to bond more with her sister rather than only seeing her at Twiligth or special events. Have her ask Twilight to temporarily handle the duties alone while they connect. Have them spending time together and enjoying things like sharing the sunset/moonrise (done by them) on the top of Mt Fillymanjero, have little moments of bonding with things like Celestia watching her sister fanfilly over posting a letter with mild amusement and affection. Have the conflict come form in character quirks like Celestia wanting to enjoy her vacation with quiet and sedate things like spa visits or the opera. Things she's been shown to love previously while Luna hates them because after a thousand years alone on the moon and countless night's seeing amazing things in other ponies dreams she wants the chance to experience them herself. Have Luna be the one wanting to do ziplining or other extreme activities when Celestia just wants to rest and enjoy watching her little ponies enjoy the kingdom she made for them. Then if you have to repeat the fight/make up we've seen before in the show it flows a lot more naturally.

Just my opinion.

[Justin_Case001 4,883]

On 6/29/2019 at 10:21 PM, AlexanderThrond said:

Twilight has never seemed like she wants to be a princess. I’m trying to roll with it now, but I’ll probably get mad when it comes to fruition in the finale.

Yeah, I was always bothered by that as well.  It's been so long that I'm used to it now, and I just kinda roll with it, as you say, but the princess appointment in S3 had the same problematic character as this whole Sisters retirement BS: there was never any consent from Twilight.  In Magical Mystery Cure, Celestia just told Twilight that she had to be a princess now.  No asking.  That's Celestia's way, it seems.  She doesn't ask Twilight if she wants to do any of this.  She just says, "This is your life, now.  Get used to it."

[Steve Piranha 29,421]

Funny, I just remembered the developers were considering to end the series here 

[Allen 1,387]

Here it is, the mid-season finale episode. Princess Celestia and Luna are off to their vacation like summer vacation, while Princess Twilight Sparkle and her Mane 6 cover up on princesses' royal duties in Canterlot, and keep on guard and safe of that sun-moon device that Celestia gave to Twilight.

There's a song revealed in this episode sung by both Celestia and Luna as well as the reprise. I hear the song first was in B-flat minor, then C minor, then back to B-flat minor.

Also, I like that part when Princess Celestia screams when zip-lining in this episode, I say "LMAO CELESTIA!" for that part!  I may upload that part on YouTube as a comment on that title.

So, I will say this is a great episode! 

Edited August 3, 2019 by Allen

[Cash In 22,282]

This was certainly a unique episode, though it's neat to have another one based around Celestia and Luna. It wasn't much of an overcomplicated episode, but more so something simple and lighthearted. I enjoyed it for it was, although I'll admit that the subplot wasn't the best, as it felt underdeveloped. That isn't enough to make me dislike the episode, as it's only one issue in contrast to something enjoyable.

[BlinkZ 1,151]

ugh, i facepalmed so hard at the mane six in this one. Leadership is all about delegating. How do they not know this! Twilight runs Winter Wrap UP for crying out loud. Just made it really infuriating with Twilight finally figure it out and i shouting "Yes that the whole point!"

oh and of course Fancy Pants is a butt in this episode really OOC for him. last time he was a jerk was in Princess Spike. Why don't they use BloueBlood instead?

[LucasB 196]

Awesome episode! Some of the messages are well woven into the plot like accepting help and not thinking you can do everything yourself, Luna and Celestia acted pretty realistically, nothing felt out of place, nothing was cheesy, also Twilight at the end was hilarious. Overall very nicely written, loved it!

[PacificGreen 1,163]

Quote

All the times we've actually needed their help, and they show up for this?

Heh, I love it when they lampshade how useless Celestia and Luna have been throughout the series.

I'm just messing...I love both of the princesses. XD

[Here No Longer 5,276]

I do have three or four problems with this episode, primarily with how incompetent and unable Spike and the Mane Six are made to look. Seriously this episode literally trashed on them at most opportunities by even going as far as making it seem like they can't clean up after THEMSELVES... I also enjoyed the Sisters interacting, but I had problems with how conflicted these interactions were. It's like we never really see them interact in a way that DOESN'T cause some sort of conflict, and a senseless conflict that could be easily avoided at that. But the conflict did make for some entertaining moments, so I'll give it a lot less flak for that. Also, most conflicts had utterly rushed resolutions. It's like the climax of the episode and the resolution were within 2 minutes of each other. Still, do enjoy episodes with less overbearing conflicts in these later, more conflict-heavy seasons because I find it kind of refreshing.

 

All in all though, it's a 8/10 for me. Kind of good, but it had too many issues for it to be any higher than that. 

[Courageous Thunder Dash 7,824]

Ok, Celestia and Luna look absolutely adorbs in those flower shirts. 

Celestia being scared of chickens was just hilarious. So many great things about this episode. 

[bwrosas 252]

Best Scene from the Mid-S9 Finale "Between Dark and Dawn (16640x7020)

[Riverlight Moonrise 20]

I really liked the visuals with the song in this one. You could tell how throughout the song they got less and less excited. And Celestia got more and more pushy. That's why Luna is the best princess.

[HedonismBot 239]

On 5/7/2020 at 4:26 PM, Riverlight Moonrise said:

I really liked the visuals with the song in this one. You could tell how throughout the song they got less and less excited. And Celestia got more and more pushy.

The big problem I had was with how that conflict was resolved. Them going their separate ways was portrayed as a failure in their relationship, yet it was the only way that both of them could possibly have had an enjoyable vacation.

A message of "Being in a healthy relationship doesn't mean you have to do EVERYTHING together" would have fit beautifully with the kinds of lessons the show has taught. Instead we get some generic "Yay, family!" stuff, implying that it's better to be utterly miserable than to be apart for even a few hours.

[nightshroud96 124]

On 10/18/2020 at 8:47 PM, HedonismBot said:

The big problem I had was with how that conflict was resolved. Them going their separate ways was portrayed as a failure in their relationship, yet it was the only way that both of them could possibly have had an enjoyable vacation.

A message of "Being in a healthy relationship doesn't mean you have to do EVERYTHING together" would have fit beautifully with the kinds of lessons the show has taught. Instead we get some generic "Yay, family!" stuff, implying that it's better to be utterly miserable than to be apart for even a few hours.

And the fact some issues that led NMM to happen wasn't exactly resolved either in the show as well..
This episode shows there's  still problems for sure.

[HedonismBot 239]

2 hours ago, nightshroud96 said:

And the fact some issues that led NMM to happen wasn't exactly resolved either in the show as well..
This episode shows there's  still problems for sure.

If anything, the way Celestia treated Luna made that worse. She telekinetically picked Luna up and dragged her to adrenaline-junkie stuff, brazenly insulted Luna's preferred activities, and used her "I'm your ruler, obey me!" voice during their argument. And when they got back together, she didn't show the slightest hint of remorse for any of that.

You'd think Celestia was trying to provoke Luna into becoming Nightmare Moon again.

[nightshroud96 124]

9 hours ago, HedonismBot said:

If anything, the way Celestia treated Luna made that worse. She telekinetically picked Luna up and dragged her to adrenaline-junkie stuff, brazenly insulted Luna's preferred activities, and used her "I'm your ruler, obey me!" voice during their argument. And when they got back together, she didn't show the slightest hint of remorse for any of that.

You'd think Celestia was trying to provoke Luna into becoming Nightmare Moon again.

She also acted like Luna alone was at fault after Luna got purified in the beginning of the show.  Really wished the show properly touched on Celestia's guilt over the thing.(As in more than just a single scene of her shedding tears, like show us more than that, touch more on it)

[JMTV99 1,352]

Wow. Why can't we get that episode back in Season 5?

But seriously, this episode was interesting. It's cool to see Celestia and Luna doing something outside being rulers of Equestria, and they had a nice little sister bond.

[Moony the Cat 3,702]

At first i thought this Episode is going to be a cringe Episode and it was at the beginning when they both tried to fit in with the adventures, since it was kinda like parents trying to be cool...

But later on the Episode got way better and it was very funny. I really like Lunas Personality. 

[Gale Wind 82]

I agree too about it kinda feeling like Twilight was being pushed a bit to take the throne. Although sometimes I just wish her castle had been the Ponyville one rather than the Canterlot one. 

[IsochronalYetSublime 112]

Honestly, this was one of my favourite episodes from the season. Call me a square, but seeing the Princesses get down to slice-of-life stuff was something I'd been looking forward to since the premier.

[Antiyonder 1,144]

YouTube upload of the episode: