S09:E17 - The Summer Sun Setback

[Dark Qiviut 22,383]

47 minutes ago, Sepul-Coloratura said:

The rest of Mane Six just made a problem just because the plot required it. Someone had to mess something up didn't they. But even it was obvious, it was less annoying and it was a kind of problem that could have occurred during the early seasons. Applejack being a voice of reason was a rare occasion that needed to happen more often. It was good to see it, but it could have been done with more nuances.

The ReMane 6 were justified to hide the problem from Twilight. Everything went from perfect to a massive problem virtually instantaneously, and they had no idea if she was truly over her Twilighting, which happened during believable times (Beginning of the End) and otherwise (Trivial Pursuit). The Trivia Trot debacle wasn’t that long ago, and she mentioned this in the first act. If they could solve the sudden problem before she found out, then they won’t have to worry about that aspect in the first place.

[Loyal Defender 4,111]

I actually remember once pointing out that Tirek likely represented Earth ponies, Chrysalis represented Unicorns, and Cozy Glow represented Pegasi. Now that I've seen all three commit heinous actions that directly relate to each race (Tirek draining Earth pony magic, Chrysalis turning Unicorns against Rarity, Cozy misleading the Pegasi), it's hilarious to think that an observation I made turned out to be true in the end!

[Jeric 46,850]

1 hour ago, Sepul-Coloratura said:

The rest of Mane Six just made a problem just because the plot required it

That, more than any complaint conjured by anyone speaking intelligently over a fictional piece of storytelling, is the most inane and dismissible argument that can be made. Unless you are reading or watching stream of consciousness based fiction, the only thing one can say to this is .... well duh. I would fucking hope to Salinger that story beats exist to serve the plot and narrative. 

Put that in a essay review of a narrative fictional piece and I promise you the Professor is going to tear you a new one. You can and have done better than that. Lose that complaint. It’s group community and fandom inspired drivel, and misused as much or more than DeM is by well-meaning self-educated consumers who having yet found a way to articulate what they didn’t like. There are aspects one can pull from the structure to make a case that the story underplayed or overplayed the motivations of Twilight’s friends, but to say that B precedes A is garbage speculation and nothing presented supports that. 

[TheAnimationFanatic 3,594]

Just now, Jeric said:

That, more than any complaint conjured by anyone speaking intelligently over a fictional piece of storytelling, is the most inane and dismissible argument that can be made. Unless you are reading or watching stream of consciousness based fiction, the only thing one can say to this is .... well duh. I would fucking hope to Salinger that story beats exist to serve the plot and narrative. 

Put that in a essay review of a narrative fictional piece and I promise you the Professor is going to tear you a new one. You can and have done better than that. Lose that complaints. It’s group community and fandom inspired drivel. There are aspects one can pull from the structure to make a case that the story underplayed or overplayed the motivations of Twilight’s friends, but to say that B precedes A is garbage speculation and nothing presented supports that. 

Damn, Jeric throwing major shade. 

[StitchandMLPlover 930]

1 hour ago, Will Guide said:

Twilight finally doesn't freak out for the first time in a long while. I wonder if she won't freak out when the Villainous League makes their presence known.

By the way, using deductive reasoning from the credits, that panicking lead weather Pegasus that has appealed to me I suspect is named Feather Flatterfly. Who did all the Twilighting for her instead. He gets a lot of comfort hugs from me.

Before I get to work, let me address the elephant in the room: The few Ponies who saw Cozy Glow. In their defense, you should think about how Tirek seems to be holding back from sucking ALL the life force from the ponies. The victims cutie marks didn't disappear so it's likely because Tirek is only taking enough to make a pony feel weak and disoriented.

The end flat out points out that Tirek had to give back the energies he's stolen to cover their tracks. And I believe that one guard was about to put the pieces together that a dangerous filly like Cozy was out of prison but since he had his energy sucked out before he could fully do something, Woosh! Out went his life force and his train of thought. I personally think Chrysalis might have in disguise convinced the affected energy-deprived ponies that they were a bit tired from working a bit too hard and that they were seeing things. It's not a strong explanation, but it's still an explanation nonetheless. And just because the Terrible Trio managed to get past all the security measures, it doesn't mean our heroes are stupid or anything. Just that the villains were thinking much more strategically. Like a good game of chess.

But the most important thing I found about this episode is that both our heroes and villians succeeded. The Ponies got to put on the best Final Summer Sun Celebration despite the setbacks. Twilight surprisingly kept calm throughout the whole chaos and I agree with Discord. It really does seem like they might be ready for whatever comes next

And as Chrysalis said, it was never about ruining the celebration. It was about the Terrible Trio learning to work together. Their team up got them Grogar's bell behind his back and now a book that might tell them how to use it. 

All in all, this has been one of the best episodes where everyone benefits.

I was thinking the same thing about the guard pony. He only saw Cozy for a spit second before Tirek apparently knocked him completely out. When he woke up he probably heard other earth ponies had been ill and chalked up anything he might have seen to the illness's symptoms. I noticed in season 4 when ponies have their magic drained they become incredibly weak but the memory stayed intact so maybe draining life force is a different power that effects pony mental functions. The guard seemed to get a larger dose of draining than the earth ponies too. I'v been disoriented and really dizzy one time from being sick and I can tell you it does mess with a person's memories of a sequence of events. My family had to fill in the gaps from when I was dizzy as a small chunk was missing...awful experience for me. I could totally see Chystalis doing that!!! 

[TheAnimationFanatic 3,594]

Is the poll ready, yet?

[BornAgainBrony 2,397]

2 hours ago, Will Guide said:

Before I get to work, let me address the elephant in the room: The few Ponies who saw Cozy Glow. In their defense, you should think about how Tirek seems to be holding back from sucking ALL the life force from the ponies. The victims cutie marks didn't disappear so it's likely because Tirek is only taking enough to make a pony feel weak and disoriented.

And I believe that one guard was about to put the pieces together that a dangerous filly like Cozy was out of prison but since he had his energy sucked out before he could fully do something, Woosh! Out went his life force and his train of thought. I personally think Chrysalis might have in disguise convinced the affected energy-deprived ponies that they were a bit tired from working a bit too hard and that they were seeing things. It's not a strong explanation, but it's still an explanation nonetheless. And just because the Terrible Trio managed to get past all the security measures, it doesn't mean our heroes are stupid or anything. Just that the villains were thinking much more strategically. Like a good game of chess.

Unless they were plastering her picture all over the land as "Public Enemy Number One" it seems unlikely that most of Equestria would have any idea of what she looks like. It really seemed like the debacle with her plot never left the school and Cozy's sentencing happened right there in that room. Their culture may just not be nearly as obsessed with the "24/7 Outrage Cycle," in fact, by its very nature, it almost certainly isn't. Do they know that a filly nearly sucked all the magic out of the world and was banished for it? Probably. But there's no reason to assume that the whole kingdom saw her mugshot in the morning paper, or that all of them would automatically be able to recognize her; there's no reason for them to even be thinking of it. She's not a lost child on a milk carton. As far as Equestria is concerned, they all know exactly where she is, and is therefore not something to be worrying about.

Chrysalis can move about undetected all she wants, and could sit down and sip tea with Celestia just as easily as be incognito all day.

Tirek's over reign of terror makes him the sore thumb sticking out in this group. Surely all of Equestria knows what he looks like, probably from seeing him in person, stomping around the countryside like a Kaiju. Keeping him unnoticed would be extremely difficult. Not just because it's Tirek, but because minotaurs are apparently quite rare in Equestria, unless we're just not being shown them very often. I would've given him a cloak to wear like he had when he first started building up his power the last time.

But... maybe they weren't actually that concerned with getting caught? It's highly unlikely they didn't go in there with an escape plan. And if they had gotten caught, could they have escaped? Maybe not in the castle, but out on the streets, I'd say yes. Tirek's power level is dangerously variable. If Ponies tried to blitz their position, Tirek might gobble up all of that magic and turn into Tirekzilla in a heartbeat. He's every bit as tough to fight as a Hydra. Just the act of sending warriors at him will make him stronger. Chrysalis can likely escape from practically ANY situation. And Cozy Glow can... I dunno... stall the assault?

(I'm still a little disappointed she's never used her inherent "adorbs" ability to its max potential)

It'd be a tough fight, but I'm thinking they could have battled their way out of the city, as long as they did it quickly enough that the Elements didn't have enough time to converge.

One final thing about the Villains in this episode, it tells us something very important. The villains are as smart as the heroes. This was "Sparkle's Seven" for the villains. They infiltrated the same castle to take an important artifact, and they succeeded. The battlefield is set. These two sides are a match for each other.

2 hours ago, BastementSparkle said:

Nah, he was still willing to step up and help in the Season 6 finale. I figure his schtick is that he only steps in to help when absolutely necessary.

It's that he helps when something happens to Fluttershy. Anything else is so-so, but the moment she's in trouble, that's when Discord turns into the Hulk. Generally though I'm not sure it's just a mentoring thing or something more nuanced about his nature. He's the spirit of chaos, so it may literally be impossible for him to snap his fingers and restore order, even if he wants to. The most he can do is show others how to get things under control. Discord's counterpart in Star Trek used to do this kind of thing with Picard all the time.

 

2 hours ago, Sepul-Coloratura said:

I'm glad that Twilight is competent and reasonable this time, but what about the other times? Are those episodes deliberately being bad just to be a stepping stones for this episode being a more satisfying one? Now Twilight is finally back to being functional, the only thing needed is to give her a character. It felt weird and contrived. It felt like they were pushing it too much, like when they made Fluttershy bold just to reward the unhappy audience sick of her previous behaviors.

The rest of Mane Six just made a problem just because the plot required it. Someone had to mess something up didn't they. But even it was obvious, it was less annoying and it was a kind of problem that could have occurred during the early seasons. Applejack being a voice of reason was a rare occasion that needed to happen more often. It was good to see it, but it could have been done with more nuances.

It would've been nice if they even just had one quickly line or two at the end of 'Trivial' with her talking about it. I could easily see that being a breaking point for her. Similar to how addicts don't wake up and realize they need to change until what they're doing ends up hurting someone else. Pinkie's heartbreak is the first time Twilighting actually hurt one of her friends, and really it was bringing down the entire room! My guess is she figured out that she finally needed to do something about it. That episode would've been fun to see, Twilight getting therapy, learning meditation, etc; but then we'd lost the surprise that came out in this episode. She may have just cast a hypnosis spell on herself for all we know.

Which brings me to the Mane 6 trying to coddle her. It wouldn't have changed anything. Would things have gotten under control sooner, maybe? But the damage was already done. The outcome of the episode would've been the same. The point wasn't the Mane 6 buying the villains extra time. It's that, "Oh, Twilight really ISN'T going to freak out!" In "Trivial Pursuit" Spike was trying to do the same thing, preemptively trying to prevent a panic attack. There was a discussion about it months ago. Twilight's anxiety was growing worse to the point of being out of control and annoying. We've all been seeing it this season. We've been being set up for that surprise for a while. I

1 hour ago, StitchandMLPlover said:

My favorite scene was towards the end where Twilight raises the sun herself and then beautifully honors Celestia and Luna. That scene truly shows Twilight coming full circle and it was just downright touching. I love the way the lighting around Twilight’s head was the same as the lighting in the beginning of Twilight’s cutie mark story when Celestia is raising the sun so the sun is shinning behind her whole body. The fact that Celestia and Luna picked Twilight to plan the Summer Sun celebration before even deciding this would be the last ceremony was a nice callback to season 4.

The idea of dividing the ponies is an interesting one but I beg the writers to please make the lesson of the finale a little more than a lesson on racism PLEASE!  Something deeper! Racism was already covered in season 8. 

Am I the only one who immediately thought of Bronycon when Celestia told Twilight that it was going to be the last one? I wonder if this was another little nod from the writers like what they did with the Young Six when they were building the memorial? It seemed strange that Celestia would outright cancel the celebration otherwise. Solstice is a big deal for any culture that has such an integral connection to weather like the Ponies do. Even with retiring I thought it would be pretty sad to do away with it. Good on Twilight for what she did. That brought a tear to my eye.

On the racism problem, to be fair, racism is almost entirely superficial. It's about a perceived sense of superiority but it all boils down to looks. Differences in the actual abilities of the different Pony races is much more blatant. Not that this justifies it; it's ultimately another of those "different, but same" things, but just looking at how easy it is to divide and conquer humans over such matters, it's scary. And actually, just by having the villains playing a role in egging this one, maybe they already HAVE put a new spin on racism in this story that hasn't fully come to fruition yet; that of not letting the news or politicians divide us over petty nonsense. Might be too deep for MLP, but this is the same show that gave us a shockingly intellectual dose of "Harrison Bergeron" with a side-order of "1984" when Starlight was introduced.

There's another thing to keep in mind though. If they're planning to divide the races, or as they were usually referred to in the show, "tribes," then we should already know where that is going to lead. Remember what was going on the last time the three tribes were divided? 

Here's Cozy Glow with your long-term weather forecast. "Bundle up, Ponies, because things are going to get a bit chilly!"

I'm calling it now. The windigos are returning.

 

[Sepul-Coloratura 762]

1 hour ago, TheAnimationFanatic said:

Everyone's a damn critic.

It's not a mess of their own making, it's part of her arc.

Yes, I'm being a damn critic. If Twilight will never manage to put herself together and keep Twilighting for the rest of the show, well, damn this show then. It is obvious they are aiming for making this is her arc in season 9. It had to happen in some point. The problem is, Twilighting was a long dragged out repetitive pattern throughout many previous seasons. She was portrayed as a more confident and competent pony in earlier seasons. (her being a princess was longer than her being just a unicorn in the show.) It was too late to fix her hyperventilation in this point, and suddenly in one episode, not that long after The Beginning of the End and Between the Dark and Dawn, she completely fixes all of her flaws.

What I'm saying is, it's an arc, and it had to happen, but it's not that much of a good arc. This episode itself isn't bad.

[TheAnimationFanatic 3,594]

7 minutes ago, Sepul-Coloratura said:

The Beginning of the End and Between the Dark and Dawn, she completely fixes all of her flaws.

That's a tad inaccurate. In The Beginning of the End, Twilight is faced with:

- Being chosen to take over Equestria after the royal sisters.

- Her family being attacked by Sombra

- The Tree of Harmony being destroyed 

- Her neighbors and  loved ones being brainwashed.

In Between Dark and Dawn, she's essentially doing a test drive and naturally is nervous and makes rookie mistakes because it's basically her first time.

Come The Summer Sun Setback, where she's now had practice and past experience to prepare her and now she's found her footing.

Moreover, most of the story arcs in the show are fairly loose and mixed here and there with the SoL stories.

Edited August 24, 2019 by TheAnimationFanatic

[Twilight Luna 31,345]

1 hour ago, Will Guide said:

Exactly!

Like I said above,

I think they said in Twilight’s Kingdom, that Discord could sense when Tirek was absorbing magic. Interesting that he couldn’t in this episode.

[BornAgainBrony 2,397]

8 minutes ago, Twilight Luna said:

I think they said in Twilight’s Kingdom, that Discord could sense when Tirek was absorbing magic. Interesting that he couldn’t in this episode.

Ohhhhh.... thinking back on that episode now. Discord has a score to settle. Please, please, let there be a fight between Discord and Tirek! Imagine both of them at full power, holding back nothing.

[Twilight Luna 31,345]

11 minutes ago, BornAgainBrony said:

Ohhhhh.... thinking back on that episode now. Discord has a score to settle. Please, please, let there be a fight between Discord and Tirek! Imagine both of them at full power, holding back nothing.

Tirek won’t be able to manipulate Discord again. 

[BastementSparkle 20,326]

15 minutes ago, Twilight Luna said:

I think they said in Twilight’s Kingdom, that Discord could sense when Tirek was absorbing magic. Interesting that he couldn’t in this episode.

Are we sure he couldn't? The ending of the episode where he makes a comment about how the girls just might be ready to take on what's coming seems to imply he knows something about what's going on...He's just not doing anything about it.

[Lucky Bolt 35,062]

Just finished watching this episode and I must say it did not disappoint!  I loved it! Best scenes....

 

Spoiler

https://derpibooru.org/2091868?q=spoiler%3As09e17

 

Spoiler

 

I give this episode a solid 9/10 

[Sepul-Coloratura 762]

28 minutes ago, Jeric said:

That, more than any complaint conjured by anyone speaking intelligently over a fictional piece of storytelling, is the most inane and dismissible argument that can be made. Unless you are reading or watching stream of consciousness based fiction, the only thing one can say to this is .... well duh. I would fucking hope to Salinger that story beats exist to serve the plot and narrative. 

Put that in a essay review of a narrative fictional piece and I promise you the Professor is going to tear you a new one. You can and have done better than that. Lose that complaint. It’s group community and fandom inspired drivel, and misused as much or more than DeM is by well-meaning self-educated consumers who having yet found a way to articulate what they didn’t like. There are aspects one can pull from the structure to make a case that the story underplayed or overplayed the motivations of Twilight’s friends, but to say that B precedes A is garbage speculation and nothing presented supports that. 

'Well, Twilight suddenly completely got rid of her old bad habit at once, it was too perfect to believe actually, and whoop-de-doo. The rest of Mane Six does something wrong instead.' That's what I was thinking during watching this episode. Twilight suddenly gets rid of all her flaws, and everybody else does something wrong instead, as if they are keeping the balance of the universe or something. Twilight's past behaviors a.k.a Twilighting felt unnatural and forced, this seemed like the Mane Five directly inherit it. And even it wasn't as bad as that, it felt forced because of it.

Characters having flaws and causing problems isn't a bad thing of course, and in this case, they had a redeeming quality of Applejack being a voice of conscience and they had sort of a reason to justify themselves. And as I mentioned, it wasn't annoying as much as other episodes. But how about them all just told Twilight the truth in the first place? Would it be too boring? And in this case, there were actually bad guys around causing troubles. It's ok for the characters to do wrong in some point of the story. It may be because the story didn't flow naturally and the Mane Six's behavior weren't understandable, even when they justified themselves. Where the Apple Lies and Top Bolt was very understandable and the conflict and problems felt more natural.

What I was trying to say up there is that the rest of Mane Six hiding the truth from Twilight seemed like they were doomed to make a wrong choice at some point of the episode just because Twilight didn't. It didn't felt natural, at least for me. They made a wrong choice and the reason behind it felt like an afterthought. And not what happened itself, but how it was told might be more of a problem for me.

[TheAnimationFanatic 3,594]

2 minutes ago, Sepul-Coloratura said:

'Well, Twilight suddenly completely got rid of her old bad habit at once, it was too perfect to believe actually, and whoop-de-doo. The rest of Mane Six does something wrong instead.' That's what I was thinking during watching this episode. Twilight suddenly gets rid of all her flaws, and everybody else does something wrong instead, as if they are keeping the balance of the universe or something. Twilight's past behaviors a.k.a Twilighting felt unnatural and forced, this seemed like the Mane Five directly inherit it. And even it What I was trying to say up there is that the rest of Mane Six hiding the truth from Twilight seemed like they were doomed to make a wrong choice at some point of the episode just because Twilight didn't. It didn't felt natural, at least for me. They made a wrong choice and the reason behind it felt like an afterthought. And not what happened itself, but how it was told might be more of a problem for me.

Why is it a problem that they didn't want her to stress about the event? This sounds more like a case of you complaining because it wasn't the way you wanted it to be.

[Jeric 46,850]

Poll is up for voting. Enjoy

[TheAnimationFanatic 3,594]

@Sepul-Coloratura She DIDN'T suddenly overcome her  her flaws. We've seen her struggle to get the hang of things initially and now she's found her footing. 

Edited August 24, 2019 by TheAnimationFanatic

[Twilight Luna 31,345]

It looks like Chrysalis will be trying to cause a civil war between the three pony races. Must be why the wendigos come back in the teaser trailer. Though I’m surprised that ponies would be so weak-minded to fall for her manipulations. 

Edited August 24, 2019 by Twilight Luna

[JH24 385]

I really like the dynamic between Chrysalis, Cozy Glow, Tirek and Grogar. The writers could have gone for an easy way out and made them slaves to Grogar. Instead we're seeing character development from this trio as they learn to work together. They may not be on the side of Mane 6, but even they realize that Grogar is too big of a threat and needs to be stopped. Their story line is interesting and I can't wait to see which direction their characters are going to take. 

 

Edited August 24, 2019 by JH24

[BornAgainBrony 2,397]

One little nitpick... what happened to the restricted book section? I thought they were going to break into the vault that was shown to Sunset in "Forgotten Friendship."

[Rushing cash 836]

The episode had some really entartaining moments, like this https://derpibooru.org/2091868?q=spoiler%3As09e17

https://derpibooru.org/2126240?q=the+summer+sun+setback

https://derpibooru.org/2090517?q=the+summer+sun+setback

The scene chrysalis tries to get inside the castle was hilarious too

 

 

[Will Guide 21,360]

1 hour ago, Lucky Bolt said:

Just finished watching this episode and I must say it did not disappoint!  I loved it! Best scenes....

 

  Hide contents

https://derpibooru.org/2091868?q=spoiler%3As09e17

 

  Hide contents

 

I give this episode a solid 9/10 

Heh, @Loyal Defender thought those faces were hilarious

[Twilight Luna 31,345]

36 minutes ago, BornAgainBrony said:

One little nitpick... what happened to the restricted book section? I thought they were going to break into the vault that was shown to Sunset in "Forgotten Friendship."

That would have been cool. Even Twilight didn’t know about that restricted section. It would make sense that she knew about the one in the castle though. I laughed when Cozy broke the lock on the book?

[bwrosas 252]

This was a complete 180 for Twilight from the pervious week. Also got some Spike and Rarity moments in here (somewhat)