Do You Support Twilicorn?

[~TheStealthyPony~ 166]

Hmm how would she be able to go through Ponyville without it being a big deal like usually everypony will have to bow each time she passes and there will only be one normal unicorn in the Mane6 not 2

It will change the enviroment and the ponies around her

Edited February 25, 2013 by ~TheStealthyPony~

[Quark 0]

As long as they give her difficulty and a hard time adjusting, I'm fine. They need an episode on her learning to fly though. I don't care if they showed her doing it at the end of the episode, they NEED a flying episode.

[The Pulse 210]

Ok, I am not really sure what to think regarding Twilicorn.

 

On one hand, I feel that it can genuinely disrupt a lot that the show has built up. First, It interrupts the equality of the mane 6 because it is obvious that Twilight is now more special than any of her friends. Second, Since they're going to make a season 4, it seems out of place. I half expected Twilight to eventually become an alicorn, but only at the very end of the show. This is because by becoming a princess, it implies that she has learned everything that is needed to be know about the magic of friendship (at least in my opinion). And if that is the case, why continue the show. It kind of robs closure to the story. Last, What happens to all the other characters of the main 6? Since Twilight is now a princess, wouldn't that mean that she needs to go someplace far off to rule. I think ponies maintain the tradition of loyalty being aloof from commoners, which goes against all the values being built up.

 

I can only find a couple ways of this working out.

 

One being Firelord Derpy's Idea 

 

Or, (Light bulb!) Maybe what ever is causing the Everfree forest to be so scary is the big bad of season 4 and once he is defeated Twilight moves into a rebuilt Everfree castle. 

 

I remember seeing this idea somewhere but can't find the exact location/ Plus i've modified it a bit to make a bit more sense (at least to me)

The basic premise was this: In one of the premiere episodes Twilight becomes greedy with the power of being an alicorn (unlikely I know), when a powerfull evil starts taking over ponyville. Only Twilight isn't there to help stop and the other ponies in the Mane 6 need her help. Over the course of the episode, it will become apparent that in order to save ponyville and her friends, Twilight would need to give up her wings in some attempt to stop the evil from spreading. Thus returning her to her normal form and giving her an even deeper meaning of friendship like being willing to sacrifice something you like to help your friends.

 

The only problem is that there is still the spell in the book at the beginning and end of the episode. All it would take is for Twilight to utter the complete version of the spell and become an alicorn again (A fact that I think most people over look). Please correct me if I am wrong on that point.

 

 

Ok, so the pro Twilicorn side. 

 

First, after all this is a show primarily for little girls. And as prevalent as the brony fan base is, they still come second to the original audience. And with the original audience being girls. Twilight's transformation into a princess reflects the dreams of thousands of girls. In essence they were trying to say "you can be a princess" without truly considering how hard it could be to continue the show after the transformation.

 

Further more it IS possible for the Mane 6 to stay together with a scenery change albeit with a few problems.

 

Look at dekutree64's theory

 

 

Rarity has always wanted to live in Canterlot, and Twilight is probably missing her old home even aside from potential royal duties, so that makes 3 of the group drawn there. Fluttershy would probably love to live in the castle garden and care for the animals there. Pinkie could run a party planning business. The snooty Canterlot ponies weren't too happy about her going wild at the gala and garden party, but her wedding reception went over well so I think she could enjoy it.   Applejack is the biggest problem. She could run a restaurant, but does that mean Apple Bloom, Granny Smith, and Big Mac all move too? Who runs the old farm then? Flim and Flam? Babs' parents? Or maybe Big Mac finally marries Cheerilee, and only Applejack and Apple Bloom move to Canterlot? But that's still sad breaking up the family...

 

Overall, I think the last episode of season 3 was a bit rushed, and unfortunately I think it led to some decisions that may not have been completely thought out. And really, there is not much the fanbase can do to change what has already been aired across hundreds of thousands of t.v.s across America. And that it is just a better idea to trust in the writers to continue making the brilliant show that caused the brony phenomena

 

tl;dr

 

Both sides of the debate have merit (read the post if you want to know a few).

And there is not much that we can do to change it anyways, just rely on the writers to make it good.

 

I sincerely hope that I did a good job putting this thread together and that it will be understood for what it is.

 

Thanks,

The Pulse

 

Wow... 2783 Characters. 

Edited February 25, 2013 by The Pulse

[hawkflame 3,310]

There are times when I'm in my "absolute dead set against it" mode, and when I'm in my more level headed, "not really behind it but not insanely stubborn about it " mode.  I'm definitely feeling the latter right now. 

 

Thinking about it a bit, I think that one of the reasons why I'm against Twilicorn is because it puts the writers in a tough spot.  Some of us naysayers (like me when I'm in a less forgiving mood) have really dug our heels in deep on this issue.  Because of this, I think it's going to take a *lot* to sway us.  A good job in handling Twilicorn isn't enough, I think they really need to do a *great* job to really quell all of our fears.  And this isn't being demanding for the sake of being demanding, or because we want to be stubborn jerks (well, maybe that's a small part of it, for me )

 

It's mostly  because of the issue of change.  Pro-Twilicorners say change can be good, Anti-Twilicorners think change is bad, but regarless I think most of us are on board with the idea that there is going to be some kind of change.  Twilight's ascension would be pointless if there wasn't.  And those of us against the whole idea to begin with don't like change because, well, we like the way things are right now.  We like that Twilight is basically this nerdy Unicorn living in  the Ponyville library and studying magic and friendship, etc.  This is the version of Friendship is Magic that we fell in love with.  That makes those elements have an added value to them for us that they otherwise wouldn't have-sort of like a nostalgic value, I guess, but too new for that term to properly apply.  There's a comfort in seeing that scenario that we're used to. 

 

Whatever that value or feeling is,it's a strong one.  We're inevitably going to be comparing the new scenario in season 4 to that of the first few seasons, and for those of us resistant to change- well those memories of "the good old days" of seasons 1-3 are going to be pretty strong.  And for many of us, I don't think that just a "decent" or "good" or even "very good" handling of the new situation is going to be enough to break through that comparison.  Frankly speaking, it has to be *GREAT*.  Otherwise it's going to be, "yeah, it wasn't bad, but I still liked it better when she was a unicorn."  And a lot of us in our more hard headed modes are going to pick at some of the problems/dangling issues if there are any flaws with the execution of how they continue on with Twilicorn.

[Pixel Stick 927]

@hawkflame: That, so far, is the most level-headed and well-thought-out reasoning I've seen so far in the "anti-ascension" camp. Thank you - your points are well-taken.

Edited February 25, 2013 by Harvan

[hawkflame 3,310]

THank you.  If I may go further, I think that the writers have a difficult road ahead of them.  When I look at how things could develop here, I see a lot of... well, it's not impossible for things to develop *great*, there's a lot of room for things to go wrong.  I feel like they may be stuck between several rocks and hard places here.  If the changes are huge, and Twilight's being all princessy and living in a castle in Canterlot and having to deal with her royal duties and whatnot, they risk losing part of what made the show appealing in the first place.  If the changes are minimal, and Twilight is still living in the Ponyvlle Library and oh by the way she has wings now and is a princess, then the whole ascension has been rendered completely pointless. 

 

Now I don't think that either of these extremes is going to happen, but the writers are going to have to navigate their way between them.  What should change?  How much should change?  Should she stay an Alicorn?  Should she give up her wings at some point?  What about the rest of the Mane Six?  Will they be in the shadow of Twilicorn?  The fans expect this.  Hasbro expects that. I dunno, I think that walking this kind of a tightrope act by DHX is going to be kind of hard. 

 

There's so much uncertainty in the air right now, and I've never really been a big fan of that. 

Edited February 25, 2013 by hawkflame

[Flutterbee 92]

The finale' was too short and the Twilight with wings part was just tacked on it seemed.  I still like Twili with wings as you see in my pic but not how it was brought about.  They had a pretty good idea with the finale' and it had potential but as a one parter it just flopped for me.

[Azura 1,107]

Since there is no reason to hate it, I'd might as well just support it. Half of the Season 3 finale singing, which was a little bit too much for me, but it wasn't all that bad..

Edited February 25, 2013 by Cloud Chaser

[Wingnut 6,990]

I voted no.  And I know I earlier said I should withhold judgment until I see season 4.  But lately, I just don't like the whole thing.  On the one hand, I want to see a twist in the next two episodes that returns her to being a unicorn.  On the other hand, I think that reverting Twilight now would send a wrong message to MLP's fans, especially those who do support her as an alicorn.  Also this whole debate has caused a lot of strife in the fandom and has even destroyed a friendship or two.  How ironic considering how MMC was supposed to be all about the power of friendship in the first place. 

 

This has opened an awful can of worms.  Instead of airing MMC with its original series concluding ending, they should've changed things up.  But I'm not going to give up on MLP:FiM or declare it to have "Jumped the shark" because of this.  The writers did a very good job with the original Mane 6 composition as 2 unicorns, 2 pegasi, and 2 land ponies.  I intend to stick around and see how the new paradigm works. 

[SongBrony 419]

What people fail to understand is that this is what Lauren was going to do anyway, if she were still here. She always wanted Twilight to get wings and become an Alicorn. I know people who hate the idea because they claim it was all Hasbro's doing just to sell toys. It's a huge character development for Twilight. She'll have more responsibilities now. I'm in full support. I loved season 3 and I'm sure season 4 will be even better.

[K3WRO 79]

I was actually expecting this for a long time. Even when "TWILIGHT NEXT PRINCESS" was a fanon, It was pretty much her destiny from the very first episode of the show and Celestlia was pretty much watching her to be her successor because she knows twilight with her god magic power can rule equestria better than..her...hmm.

[hawkflame 3,310]

What people fail to understand is that this is what Lauren was going to do anyway, if she were still here. She always wanted Twilight to get wings and become an Alicorn

Um... Where are you getting that from? She said she wanted her to become a *princess*, not necessarily an Alicorn. Most likely as an end of series development, not in the middle.

 

I know people who hate the idea because they claim it was all Hasbro's doing just to sell toys.

Because it most likely was. Any quotes from the staff saying it was their idea? In every other case it's Hasbro telling the writers what kind of toy elements to put in the show, not the other way around.

[SongBrony 419]

Um... Where are you getting that from? She said she wanted her to become a *princess*, not necessarily an Alicorn. Most likely as an end of series development, not in the middle.

 

Because it most likely was. Any quotes from the staff saying it was their idea? In every other case it's Hasbro telling the writers what kind of toy elements to put in the show, not the other way around.

But Lauren Faust originally wanted Twilight to be Celestia's successor. Maybe not in Season 3, but she wanted that nonetheless. I can't remember if it was in a twitter post or an interview segment Edited February 25, 2013 by SongBrony

[hawkflame 3,310]

But Lauren Faust originally wanted Twilight to be Celestia's successor. Maybe not in Season 3, but she wanted that nonetheless. I can't remember if it was in a twitter post or an interview segment

 

It still doesn't mean Alicorn.  If anything, she's implied in tweets that the show's current direction is different from what she originally envisioned.

 

[jonathonpr 5]

Given the length of time necessary to create an episode they might not have known if there would be a season 4 when they were planning how to end season 3. Popularity is only valuable to a company if it means increased revenue and profit. A company has to make sure it is going for the highest revenue to investment ratio for each project. Once they knew they would get another season they could expand on future plans. I have no doubt that the transformation was also promoted by Hasbro for their toy line. Personally I do not consider physical changes to be character development. How they respond to those changes and their relationships with others is what counts to me. Goku turning super saiyan was not character development. The change of Picalo and Vegeta from evil to good was character development. Twilight has the most growth and development in the first season and the first two episodes are in my top 10 for the series. Twilight as a character lost many of her defining characteristics in many of the episodes and became more generic. She has shown in the past that she does not need to be an alicorn to solve complex problems. She has shown that as a group her friends are arguably more powerful than the princesses except for limited and exclusive powers even without using the elements of harmony. I think Celestia realizes that she is not that great of a leader except as a figure head. She is benevolent but is not an example of the different aspects of harmony like the main six are. It would be better if at the end of the series Twilight did take over the responsibility of leading Equestria not as an alicorn princess but as herself. Leadership and choice is part of every pony no matter what kind they are. They don't have to wait for the direction of a higher race or rely on the power of an individual. Everypony with their own unique traits form communities that perform greater acts than the princesses. As a nonalicorn Twilight would exemplify the potential greatness in everypony and with her friends the value of many different abilities. It was not Celestia that solved the problems of the past but the Elements of Harmony. There was a time before the rule of the alicorns and there will be again. Viva la revolucion!

[SongBrony 419]

It still doesn't mean Alicorn.  If anything, she's implied in tweets that the show's current direction is different from what she originally envisioned.

 

But from what we've seen, all princesses have been alicorns (Unless you're shining armor and marry into royalty. Chrysalis was an Alicorn changeling, Luna and Celestia are alicorns and Cadence is Celestias niece. So far from our knowledge, princesses are alicorns. Faust may not have agreed with how they went about making her a princess, but I'm sure she wanted her to be an Alicorn at some point.

[hawkflame 3,310]

But from what we've seen, all princesses have been alicorns (Unless you're shining armor and marry into royalty. Chrysalis was an Alicorn changeling, Luna and Celestia are alicorns and Cadence is Celestias niece. So far from our knowledge, princesses are alicorns. Faust may not have agreed with how they went about making her a princess, but I'm sure she wanted her to be an Alicorn at some point.

 

You know that she was quite surprised to find out that Cadence was turned into an alicorn instead of a unicorn like she originally envisioned, right?  So no, under her original plan, not all princesses would necessarily be alicorns.

[SongBrony 419]

You know that she was quite surprised to find out that Cadence was turned into an alicorn instead of a unicorn like she originally envisioned, right?  So no, under her original plan, not all princesses would necessarily be alicorns.

No I did not know that. Actually surprised by that. I couldn't picture Cadance as just a unicorn. Especially after flying through the crystal catacombs

[~Chaotic Eddie~ 479]

I've said it once, I'll say it again: Now that Twi is an alicorn, there's nothing more for her to learn about friendship, thus defeating the purpose of the show. The only way the show will keep going is if Hasbro do something REALLY unexpected, or jump the shark.

[Pixel Stick 927]

I've said it once, I'll say it again: Now that Twi is an alicorn, there's nothing more for her to learn about friendship, thus defeating the purpose of the show. The only way the show will keep going is if Hasbro do something REALLY unexpected, or jump the shark.

 

Let me just ask you this: When you graduate from high school, do you think there will be nothing more for you to learn about life?

[~Chaotic Eddie~ 479]

 

Let me just ask you this: When you graduate from high school, do you think there will be nothing more for you to learn about life?

I say there's nothing more for her to learn, because according to the summary on TVTropes...

 

 Now it is her turn to guide Equestria through the magic of friendship, just as Celestia has done for her.

If she's doing the TEACHING, then won't it sort of defeat the purpose of the show, which is Twilight LEARNING about the Magic of Friendship?

 

...unless the other Mane 5 still write.

[Pixel Stick 927]

I say there's nothing more for her to learn, because according to the summary on TVTropes...

If she's doing the TEACHING, then won't it sort of defeat the purpose of the show, which is Twilight LEARNING about the Magic of Friendship?

 

...unless the other Mane 5 still write.

 

My question still stands.  Just because you graduate, and even if you become a leader, you don't just automatically stop learning.  Celestia even said SHE would be learning from Twilight, and she's been in power for more than a thousand years.

[~Chaotic Eddie~ 479]

My question still stands.  Just because you graduate, and even if you become a leader, you don't just automatically stop learning.  Celestia even said SHE would be learning from Twilight, and she's been in power for more than a thousand years.

This is what I feared from the beginning: Twilight is now overpowered. And don't the other Mane 5 end up bowing down to her? Isn't that a little ironic, considering they're supposed to be her friends, not her subjects?

[Pixel Stick 927]

This is what I feared from the beginning: Twilight is now overpowered. And don't the other Mane 5 end up bowing down to her? Isn't that a little ironic, considering they're supposed to be her friends, not her subjects?

 

You're not addressing my question.  You seem to think that Twilight's ascension automatically removes any possibility for future development of her character, and I'm trying to get you to see why I think that's unnecessarily shortsighted.

[hawkflame 3,310]

Same. I had a feeling there were some shifting opinions, which is why I posted this in the first place. Didn't expect such a dramatic shift, though.

 

Could it be the influx of new members?

 

Who knows.  I just saw the results of the other poll here taken just after the end of the episode, only six days older than yours:

 

http://mlpforums.com/topic/49894-was-twilight-sparkle-becoming-an-alicorn-a-good-thing/

 

It's pretty close between "good" "bad" and "indifferent" with "indifferent" in the lead overall, and "bad" having a slight lead over "good".  Did *that* many people change their minds over a week or so?