Is Luna the Ultimate Villain?

[PurpleBaconEater 37]

okay, before i say anything i suggest you watch this video. so that we are all on the same page

 

*note: if you dont want to watch the whole video then you can skip to about 27:37 and start watching from there.

 

 

Now, I'm not sure if I truly believe that Luna can actually be evil, but to be honest the idea never crossed my mind before now; and I have to say that i love this theory. it is most definitely the best head cannon I've ever heard. My mind has been blown.

Now, to think that a children's show (no matter how brilliant of a kid's show it may be) would be this well structured is ridiculous, but here in the fandom that does not matter.

An evil Luna? Absolutely brilliant! To think that whatever possessed her to becoming nightmare moon (if anything did at all) is still there, just biding its time.... Would be amazing. Also, if you have the time, i would highly recommend watching the entire video because some good points are made and it is fairly entertaining. 

What do you guys think? 

[GC13 17]

The things that possessed her are still around, but they got booted back to the moon. They are... Shall I say... Still active... If you read the comic. Not in Luna, though. It actually looks like she gets to be a big dang hero resolving their latest attack, actually.

[Orablanco Account 3,706]

 

That's actually really awesome.

 

I mean, of course it's not for real, but if it was...

 

You know, we really need a villain like this. Not necessarily Luna or Celestia, but a antagonist whose treachery does not become clear until later on.

[Just some guy 1,070]

 

That's actually really awesome.

 

I mean, of course it's not for real, but if it was...

 

You know, we really need a villain like this. Not necessarily Luna or Celestia, but a antagonist whose treachery does not become clear until later on.

They do already,if they actually do decide to go with that route.

 

Discord.

 

In the episode where he was "reformed",he could simply be playing along and biding his time in order to put Equestria back into a state of chaos again and keep it that way.He's the Lord of Chaos,a Master of Trickery.I highly doubt he would want to keep Equestria orderly.Gaining the trust of the Mane 6 and Celestia/Luna would just make the chaotic takeover that much easier.

 

Unless this has been disproven in the comics as well,like with Luna being evil was disproven.

[Anadu Kune 668]

I don't know if I like that idea. It would undermine the very theme of the show. Essentially all the ultimate magic of friendship did was postpone Luna for a bit.  Not to mention it just makes the plot holes in the pilot worse. If she were truely evil why use such pathetic attempts to thwart the ponies? It can only be justified if she were not evil and really didn't want them hurt. Though even then its a problem. You control the movement of celestial bodies but cant think of anything better than scary trees and flamboyant sea serpents? Why not teleport them away or create a big shield? Why not bring the trees to life? Its one of the reasons I dont get why people call Sombra not threatening. Even in defeat he banishes an entire civilization from reality, wipes thier memories, is shown enslaving them, and demonstrates the ability reveal your deepest fear. Yet somehow creating scary trees, ripping the mustache off a sea serpent, and posing as a thorn in a manticors paw is more threatening? 

Edited April 7, 2013 by Anadu Kune

[Righteous Fury 344]

I thought about this when I first watched it, but wasn't Luna on the balcony watching over the night and doing her royal duties and stuff while Twilight saw Chrysalis mess with Shining Armor's mind?

[PurpleBaconEater 37]

The things that possessed her are still around, but they got booted back to the moon. They are... Shall I say... Still active... If you read the comic. Not in Luna, though. It actually looks like she gets to be a big dang hero resolving their latest attack, actually. 

i am sorry but i do not know what comic you are talking about. you mind posting a link or expanding your post to clarify as to "what" comic?

 

They do already,if they actually do decide to go with that route.

 

Discord.

 

In the episode where he was "reformed",he could simply be playing along and biding his time in order to put Equestria back into a state of chaos again and keep it that way.He's the Lord of Chaos,a Master of Trickery.I highly doubt he would want to keep Equestria orderly.Gaining the trust of the Mane 6 and Celestia/Luna would just make the chaotic takeover that much easier.

 

Unless this has been disproven in the comics as well,like with Luna being evil was disproven.

no, i dont discord would work at all. not only would that destroy the lesson learned through discord, but it wouldnt be like hime. right now discord is my favourite villain because he is mischievous (there is another mlp review by bronycurious who talks about the discord two-parter that explains his character in a way that i really appreciate.) discord isnt outright evil. he never was and he never was. he was always one to use others to be "evil" for him. but was never really evil. i mean, he made it rain chocolate, cotton candy clouds.... the only thing evil was how miserable he made everyone.

 

 

That's actually really awesome.

 

I mean, of course it's not for real, but if it was...

 

You know, we really need a villain like this. Not necessarily Luna or Celestia, but a antagonist whose treachery does not become clear until later on.

that would be truly amazing a secret villain who was always there. those are my favourite villains because it ties everything together so perfectly. even episodes that you dont like suddenly seem ingenious once put into perspective by this master villian!

 

I thought about this when I first watched it, but wasn't Luna on the balcony watching over the night and doing her royal duties and stuff while Twilight saw Chrysalis mess with Shining Armor's mind?

she was only there at night, remember how she tells celestia how she will watch the night (like she always does). well what happens during he day? 

[Shift 4,272]

i am sorry but i do not know what comic you are talking about. you mind posting a link or expanding your post to clarify as to "what" comic?

 

The official My Little Pony comic.

 

You can find the 5th one, the one we are referring to, here. I believe whatever happens in the comics is canon. The good thing is, the comics are really dark.

 

[CrystalRose 636]

It's a great idea, and makes for some good creepy theories.

 

However, the whole deal about her never being in the same place as Chrysalis is wrong, therefore underpinning the whole thing.

She is seen on the balcony performing her nightly duties whilst the fake Cadance is at the castle.

[PurpleBaconEater 37]

I don't know if I like that idea. It would undermine the very theme of the show. Essentially all the ultimate magic of friendship did was postpone Luna for a bit.  Not to mention it just makes the plot holes in the pilot worse. If she were truely evil why use such pathetic attempts to thwart the ponies? It can only be justified if she were not evil and really didn't want them hurt. Though even then its a problem. You control the movement of celestial bodies but cant think of anything better than scary trees and flamboyant sea serpents? Why not teleport them away or create a big shield? Why not bring the trees to life? Its one of the reasons I dont get why people call Sombra not threatening. Even in defeat he banishes an entire civilization from reality, wipes thier memories, is shown enslaving them, and demonstrates the ability reveal your deepest fear. Yet somehow creating scary trees, ripping the mustache off a sea serpent, and posing as a thorn in a manticors paw is more threatening? 

thank you! i also found it weird how so many people were going on about how sombra was not at all scary. but HELLO!?!?! how is he not scary?? after all the things he did to the crystal ponies. he tormented them so much that even the mention of him sent chills down their spines. and not to mention that it was made evident at the end of that two-parter that they are very powerful already, ad yet this pony still managed to come in and take control. if that isnt badass (am i allowed to say that?) then i dont know what is.

[Orablanco Account 3,706]

i am sorry but i do not know what comic you are talking about. you mind posting a link or expanding your post to clarify as to "what" comic?

There's an official comic book published each month by IDW Publishing. Thus far, the book has been structured as adventure story arcs (4 issues each), telling stories that are considered canon.

 

The first arc, which was completed last month, was about Queen Chrysalis kidnapping the CMC, prompting the Mane 6 to journey into her newly acquired kingdom (which she took by murdering its former inhabitants "on screen"!) to rescue them.

 

The current arc shows that Nightmare Moon, the evil force that turned Luna to evil, survived its encounter with the Elements and has been residing in the moon. Luna must lead the Mane 6 against the spirit when it possesses Rarity as its new host.

 

So Rarity is gonna be Nightmare Moon. Awesome.

[PurpleBaconEater 37]

It's a great idea, and makes for some good creepy theories.

 

However, the whole deal about her never being in the same place as Chrysalis is wrong, therefore underpinning the whole thing.

She is seen on the balcony performing her nightly duties whilst the fake Cadance is at the castle.

but you never see her at the same time as chrysalis. did you notice that? you see celestia in the same room as fake cadence during the day, and since luna wouldnt be performing her nightly duties during the day, then where is she? beats me. i know that this theory isn't canon, but still... also, i would suggest watching the video starting at 19:41 where they start complaining about the whereabouts of luna.  

The official My Little Pony comic.

 

You can find the 5th one, the one we are referring to, here. I believe whatever happens in the comics is canon. The good thing is, the comics are really dark.

thank you

Edited April 7, 2013 by PurpleBaconEater

[Nature's Spell 526]

Luna was never evil even as Nightmare moon. Her issue was feeling unloved and unappreciated and that seemed to continue till Luna eclipsed. In that episode she learned that her subjects did love her and in someways more than they loved Celestia.

[GC13 17]

And Velvet posted a really big spoiler to issue #5 right there in the post. Although I suppose it doesn't matter much, as that issue is all exposition for what the arc of 6, 7, and 8 are going to be about.

 

As a reminder, you still have time to find a local comic store, or if you cannot, then to go to Comixology or iTunes and buy the back issues while you wait for issue #6 to come out.

 

... Sorry, I'm a bit of a booster for the My Little Pony comics.

Edited April 7, 2013 by GC13

[hawkflame 3,310]

no, i dont discord would work at all. not only would that destroy the lesson learned through discord, but it wouldnt be like hime. right now discord is my favourite villain because he is mischievous (there is another mlp review by bronycurious who talks about the discord two-parter that explains his character in a way that i really appreciate.) discord isnt outright evil. he never was and he never was. he was always one to use others to be "evil" for him. but was never really evil. i mean, he made it rain chocolate, cotton candy clouds.... the only thing evil was how miserable he made everyone.

 

What, playing mind games with five ponies for the lulz wasn't evil?  He could have brute force brainwashed them at any time, he just fucked with their heads because it was more fun that way.

 

 

thank you! i also found it weird how so many people were going on about how sombra was not at all scary. but HELLO!?!?! how is he not scary?? after all the things he did to the crystal ponies. he tormented them so much that even the mention of him sent chills down their spines. and not to mention that it was made evident at the end of that two-parter that they are very powerful already, ad yet this pony still managed to come in and take control. if that isnt badass (am i allowed to say that?) then i dont know what is.

 

The thing is, he didn't *do* anything, really.  Yes, they talked about/showed some of the things he did in the past, and some of the thins he set up, but that's it.  He had very little presence as a character.  Yes, objectively he's a scary, evil, bad guy, but without that presence he's not going to leave much of an impression on the viewer.

[Scootalove 10,685]

Well, there are a lot of candidates for Ultimate Villain. But I think Luna had that category when she was Nightmare Moon, and well there are plenty of antagonists that fill the role of Ultimate Villain.

[CrystalRose 636]

but you never see her at the same time as chrysalis. did you notice that? you see celestia in the same room as fake cadence during the day, and since luna wouldnt be performing her nightly duties during the day, then where is she? beats me. i know that this theory isn't canon, but still... also, i would suggest watching the video starting at 19:41 where they start complaining about the whereabouts of luna.  

thank you

Luna would be performing her nightly duties all night, she has to, it's her job. She tells Celestia "I will take over from here." Does this mean every night Cadance vanishes from the castle? Wouldn't Shining Armour notice that his fiancee is missing from dusk onwards? Most engaged couples enjoy spending their evenings together.

[PlunderSteed 1,251]

How have I never seen those review videos?!?  They're silly, insightful, witty and entertaining as hell.

 

As for the theory itself...very interesting. 

[Genepool 224]

I think Chrysalis draws on the darker aspect of Luna, which is that Lust/Envy/Greed of want and desire.  Some people, one that I know of right now, said that Sleepless in Ponyville contradicted what was in the beginning of MLPFIM where the connotation was given that Princess Luna was lonely because ponies slept through her night, yet she entered their dreams.  In reality, what I got was Luna being further and further isolated as she mostly began to enter the dreams of ponies vs the physical meeting with them.  This was only compounded by the ponies of Equestria sleeping through the night when Luna put in so much effort to make it beautiful.

 

To draw on our own reality, it could be a representation of isolating ourselves where some people, instead of physically meeting others, will just talk online.  I use myself as an example where I have 1 friend that I know in real life from Highschool, keep in touch with them, and that's it.  I don't go out and physically  meet new people, which has caused a form of strange, anti-social behavior.  This may seem contradictory since I have people who could be considered "friends" that I chat with online with.  Those people I chat with online however, I've never met any of them and will more-than-likely never meet them.  

 

As for the essence that possessed Luna, I like how the comic is dealing with it even though I haven't read it.  The preview images i've seen take it to that necessary level where i'm doubtful the show could ever go. 

 

My cynical, pessimistic nature doesn't allow me to hope for things, but I will find season 4 quite interesting if they introduce that creature, from the older gen stuff, that represents hatred. 

 

 

 

 

Have a comic in mind for that idea where a pony steals the alicorn amulet from Zecora, and it's inside the Alicorn Amulet the centaur creature resides.  The charm is though to simply "enhance" a unicorn's magical abilities, but in reality the amulet acts as an eternal prison that separated the creature's essence from his body. 

 

It's learned that the pony steals the amulet because he/she hates Celestia and wants revenge on the ruler of Equestria, restoring the Centaur to its former power.  This is where things are revealed where Celestia gathers 2 other ponies whom are "deserving" of being endowed with the power of alicorns... or rather Princesses I guess I should say. 

 

As the story progresses, things culminate to where the Elements of Harmony are used, but prove ineffective because the creature isn't totally evil because he represents Hatred, a valid emotion that only becomes evil when it consumes an individual/creature.  Things end with the Centaur proceeding to be sealed away with Twilight, Celestia, Cadence, Celestia, and Luna surrounded by the 5 bearers of the rest of the elements of Harmony.  Twilight realizes that whoever sealed the Centaur away in the past was wrong, mostly because they completely locked off that emotion, instead of allowing it to dissipate into the world where the emotion is cleansed by the understanding nature of most ponies.

 

In the end, Twilight utilizes all of her power and regresses to the state of a normal unicorn as Celestia tells Twilight not to do it.  This is where Celestia comes clean, stating that she was the one who sealed away the creature.  Ultimately, the creature being sealed away was the final test of sorts.  Found this idea "semi-plausible" for an episode, and think this is where Faust's original idea would come into fruition where Celestia bestows her power onto Twilight.  Twilight would ascend through a second "alicornification" and take Celestia's place as the ruler of Equestria, while Celestia returns to where she came from because she's done her job. 

 

I would want something different though where Twilight returns to being a Unicorn, but she assumes a "chosen" destiny of sorts where she is a teacher at Celestia's school for gifted unicorns.  At the same time, Twilight remains in a normal state with her friends as they continue to guard Equestria from evil as the bearers of the elements of Harmony.  Celestia would then chose a set of new bearers of the elements to continue a greater cycle.

 

Edited April 7, 2013 by Genepool

[PurpleBaconEater 37]

How have I never seen those review videos?!?  They're silly, insightful, witty and entertaining as hell.

 

As for the theory itself...very interesting. 

well if you like them then i would definitely recommend watching some videos by digibrony. i have only recently found these analysis videos myself but love watch such detailed reviews on the show.

[GC13 17]

I absolutely love the kind of analysis Digibrony does on the show. However, he has some opinions that I consider badwrong, and he also has the idea in his head that Celestia and Starswirl were contemporaries. I have no clue where that idea comes from, though I know it's taken up residence in fanon somehow.

[Orablanco Account 3,706]

I absolutely love the kind of analysis Digibrony does on the show. However, he has some opinions that I consider badwrong, and he also has the idea in his head that Celestia and Starswirl were contemporaries. I have no clue where that idea comes from, though I know it's taken up residence in fanon somehow.

 

My current assumption is that Starswirl was before Celestia and that his spellbook was just one last mystery she kept around to test the pony she felt may have a shot at being an alicorn.

 

I do not think that Starswirl was trying to become an alicorn, or rather, I don't think that'd be particularly interesting. The spell that Twilight wrote didn't directly turn he into an alicorn either. The spell that helped everyone recover their cutie marks was simply a signal that she was ready to reach a higher plain of enlightenment.

 

As to why Starswirl was even messing with a spell that could change cutie marks...well, that's the interesting part.

[PurpleBaconEater 37]

And Velvet posted a really big spoiler to issue #5 right there in the post. Although I suppose it doesn't matter much, as that issue is all exposition for what the arc of 6, 7, and 8 are going to be about.

 

As a reminder, you still have time to find a local comic store, or if you cannot, then to go to Comixology or iTunes and buy the back issues while you wait for issue #6 to come out.

 

... Sorry, I'm a bit of a booster for the My Little Pony comics.

thanks for the tips on the comics, and everything but that doesnt actually have anything to do with the original topic posted.

 

What, playing mind games with five ponies for the lulz wasn't evil?  He could have brute force brainwashed them at any time, he just fucked with their heads because it was more fun that way.

 

 

 

The thing is, he didn't *do* anything, really.  Yes, they talked about/showed some of the things he did in the past, and some of the thins he set up, but that's it.  He had very little presence as a character.  Yes, objectively he's a scary, evil, bad guy, but without that presence he's not going to leave much of an impression on the viewer.

thank you for the feedback but i feel like this post was just a gateway to the start of an argument, the way it was stated. i dont really know what to say other than, maybe try to keep the posts more positive. i made sure that when i was disagreeing with someone i didnt outright say that they were wrong, but i said that I didnt think that what they said would work and why. maybe you werent trying to be, it just seemed a tiny bit hostile.

[Zygen 6,065]

Well its an interesting theory, but I really doubt it actually is the case. This is a kids show at its core, and I doubt they'll pull one of these.

 

Besides Luna looks pretty well redeemed overall, I imagine she'd have made a move by now and not let Twilight become a Princess, but eh idk.

 

Its an interesting theory, and maybe even one that could possibly be done on another character, but I doubt it'll happen with Luna. Just doesn't seem like something to happen in this kinda show.

[Scythe 39]

Now, I'm not sure if I truly believe that Luna can actually be evil, but to be honest the idea never crossed my mind before now; and I have to say that i love this theory. it is most definitely the best head cannon I've ever heard. My mind has been blown.

Now, to think that a children's show (no matter how brilliant of a kid's show it may be) would be this well structured is ridiculous, but here in the fandom that does not matter.

An evil Luna? Absolutely brilliant! To think that whatever possessed her to becoming nightmare moon (if anything did at all) is still there, just biding its time.... Would be amazing. Also, if you have the time, i would highly recommend watching the entire video because some good points are made and it is fairly entertaining. 

What do you guys think? 

I just watched that video and thought the idea of an evil, biding-her-time, bait&switch Luna was brilliant! What a twist, and using classical ideas!

 

Now, I'll be disappointed if the show doesn't go in this direction.