Reformed Discord isn't that bad!

[DJShy 914]

I have heard many things about the reformation of Discord. Some say he is ruined, (drama kings/queens) some say it is genius, some say it's so-so, and others say they will wait to see him before judging him.

 

I am here to shed some new info on the subject for those who don't know and input my two bits.

_________________________________________________________________________________

 

Within the book 'The Elements of Harmony: The Official Guidebook', It states that Meghan McCarthy says, and I quote, "For a character like Discord, 'reforming' hum allows us to tell new stories with his character. He gets to be the not-always-reliable ally instead of the known enemy."

 

_________________________________________________________________________________

 

And so to paraphrase, she says that Discord becomes one of us. A unpredictable friend who may be there for you or not based on his reasons instead of someone we love to hate.

 

 

Besides, we didn't love to hate him, we loved to love him. So in that way, he fails as a villain.

[InfinityWhale 771]

Where are you hearing these complaints? The only complaints are that it was a bit rushed, which is a valid one: after all, they had to fit it into a 22-minute episode. Other than that, I haven't heard a single complaint about the whole deal. It was realistic, fit within his character, and promised a little bit of troublemaking despite the alteration.

[DJShy 914]

Where are you hearing these complaints? The only complaints are that it was a bit rushed, which is a valid one: after all, they had to fit it into a 22-minute episode. Other than that, I haven't heard a single complaint about the whole deal. It was realistic, fit within his character, and promised a little bit of troublemaking despite the alteration.

 

I never said they came from here. I Only said I heard them. i believe that it wasn't too rushed, it was, infact, realistic, and does fit his character.

[~StatesTheOblivious~ 1,795]

Well, the question is: Was he even really evil?

 

I like him being reformed, but spreading chaos is just his very nature. At least he did the step in the direction of "good" by himself after a corrective emotional experience. That's how I interpret the events in "Keep Calm and Flutter on". He never had a friend, but was capable of understanding and identify with the concept of friendship without being cleansed by the Elements of Harmony.

 

As he said, he will use his powers for good instead of evil most of the time. He simply is Discord. Not harmony. And turning him into the half-useful ally like Meghan stated, will keep his character still the same, but developed. He will still be the "troll", but also the drconequus who just changed in an authentical way. That's what I expect him to be in future episodes.

[Gigapony 650]

I agree with Meghan that it does open up a lot more interesting story possibilities for him. As a villain, all you could really do with him was just kinda rehash the same formula: "Discord breaks out, does mean things, Mane 6 stop him", and not much else.

 

With a reformed Discord, you really don't know what to expect from him now. He's by no means a goody-two-shoes, and he keeps his old mischievous spirit, and he can be a really badass ally in the fact that just because he's good, doesn't mean he has to help you. He's all-powerful and can probably save Equestria from damn near anything, but he has to want to, and who says he isn't going to have some fun along the way? It'll probably be doubly reminiscent of DeLancie's role as Q in Star Trek.

 

I personally can't wait to see what happens when the Mane 6 have to go to Discord for assistance in S4 (and I'm hoping they will), I predict it'll be a very cool episode.

[InfinityWhale 771]

I agree with Meghan that it does open up a lot more interesting story possibilities for him. As a villain, all you could really do with him was just kinda rehash the same formula: "Discord breaks out, does mean things, Mane 6 stop him", and not much else.

 

With a reformed Discord, you really don't know what to expect from him now. He's by no means a goody-two-shoes, and he keeps his old mischievous spirit, and he can be a really badass ally in the fact that just because he's good, doesn't mean he has to help you. He's all-powerful and can probably save Equestria from damn near anything, but he has to want to, and who says he isn't going to have some fun along the way? It'll probably be doubly reminiscent of DeLancie's role as Q in Star Trek.

 

I personally can't wait to see what happens when the Mane 6 have to go to Discord for assistance in S4 (and I'm hoping they will), I predict it'll be a very cool episode.

This is very true. It's not like they put a tube in his head and sucked out all the interesting characters. The greater chances for interaction will only throw into relief everything we like about the character. Not to mention that we haven't seen any reaction to Twilight's transformation yet.

 

Oh, and we need more DiscoPie shipping. This is non-negotiable.

Edited July 9, 2013 by InfinityWhale

[hawkflame 3,310]

I have been dead set against reformed Discord from the very beginning.  Like I've said before, Discord in Return of Harmony was the biggest genuine threat we've seen so far in the series.  He defeated the Elements of Harmony! He made the logic of the entire world stand on its head!  He put the Mane Six through crazy mind games primarily for the lulz (remember, he could have brute force brainwashed them like he did Fluttershy, it was just more fun to watch them go through the agony). 

 

Now all of that is gone. 

 

Only a few people here outside of myself seem to see this as a great loss that can't be made up for by anything that he could possibly bring while "reformed". 

 

Who else here is with me on this?

 

I agree with Meghan that it does open up a lot more interesting story possibilities for him. As a villain, all you could really do with him was just kinda rehash the same formula: "Discord breaks out, does mean things, Mane 6 stop him", and not much else.

 

Which is why, to me, the answer is very simple. 

 

*Don't reuse him*.  Maybe give him one big comeback and that's it. 

 

Oh and if they don't bring him back more than once, the whole reformation would have been completely pointless.

[Scootalove 10,689]

I don't think it will be bad, we have to see what will happen with what they will do with him first.

 

Since, we know that John De Lancie is known for a lot of good roles but Discord is known for chaos and anarchy when it comes to being a villain. Even if he is going to be brought back after being reformed, we can give him a chance.

[hawkflame 3,310]

This is very true. It's not like they put a tube in his head and sucked out all the interesting characters.

 

By making him less of a threat, they kind of did, IMO.  To me, that was always a defining aspect of Discord's character and why Return of Harmony Parts 1 and 2 are two of the best episodes of the entire series.

 

I really can't see what Discord can bring as an ally that would make up for that loss. 

Edited July 9, 2013 by hawkflame

[InfinityWhale 771]

By making him less of a threat, they kind of did, IMO.  To me, that was always a defining aspect of Discord's character and why Return of Harmony Parts 1 and 2 are two of the best episodes of the entire series.

The fact of the matter is that threats are a dime a dozen. Scary as Discord was, he was defeated. Scary as NMM was, she was defeated. Heck, if you really want to argue, Chrysalis was the most frightening because she actually managed to disable the Elements of Harmony and prevent them from using them to defeat her.

 

The thing that made Discord fun wasn't the fact that he was a threat. It was the fact that he was a goofy, chaotic being. Yes, he could be scary, and yes, he had the ability to get into the minds of the Mane 6. But didn't Sombra get into Twilight's head? Didn't Chrysalis get everyone to turn a blind eye to her? Why do you think that just because a character was villainous the only way that they can be interesting is to be villainous? The best characters are the ones that keep us coming for more, and who do it through growth. By denying Discord this epiphany, you deny him the ability to keep growing and keep us interesting.

 

He's still the same person. He's still Chaotic Neutral and you are out of your mind if you think that this is going to be the last time he causes a problem or to. We now just get the opportunity to see his troublemaking from a new perspective. And if he did come back, there would be no way they could make him interesting. He would either use the same headgames, making them unable to use the Elements, or he would just fully abuse his powers and curbstomp. There's really no middle ground here. This is not them nerfing the character, this is them allowing him to grow and letting him stay necessary. Maybe he's not as much of a threat, but writers can always come up with new threats, the real treat here is that they are capable of maintaining this character importance without changing him inherently.

[Twi Rubix 726]

I've always had a good vibe on Discord. He was a great villain, even though he wasn't really "evil", he was just having fun.

 

I was surprised seeing Discord return in S3, especially for the fact Fluttershy is trying to reform him. Anyway, at the end of the episode, we see Discord is now good and won't be messing around so much anymore. My opinion? It's neutral for me. We haven't really seen what he is going to do now that he's good, so I suppose I'll wait and see what happens until I form an actual opinion on this.

 

Now, maybe it's just me, but I think Discord was really overpowered in terms of what he can do. He could literally re-write the entire world (Equestria, at least) to what he wants, and he can brainwash with the touch of a finger. Not even Princess Celestia could stop him. The reason the Mane 6 even defeated him was because he let them, and he didn't try to resist at all. If he were to come back still as a villain, he'd probably learn from that mistake, and keep his guard up.

 

 

I have been dead set against reformed Discord from the very beginning.  Like I've said before, Discord in Return of Harmony was the biggest genuine threat we've seen so far in the series.  He defeated the Elements of Harmony! He made the logic of the entire world stand on its head!  He put the Mane Six through crazy mind games primarily for the lulz (remember, he could have brute force brainwashed them like he did Fluttershy, it was just more fun to watch them go through the agony). 

 

Now all of that is gone. 

 

Only a few people here outside of myself seem to see this as a great loss that can't be made up for by anything that he could possibly bring while "reformed". 

 

Who else here is with me on this?

I see where your coming from, he was a good villain in Return to Harmony. I suppose the two scenarios could of either been: Discord never returning, and remembering him as the villain he was, or have him return, but reformed, and see what else they do to his character. Just because Discord is now good doesn't mean he can't use his chaos. Heck, it could even be an attribute if he needs to use it in combat, or however they're going to use him. I'd wait until we see how he is in the future.

[hawkflame 3,310]

The fact of the matter is that threats are a dime a dozen. Scary as Discord was, he was defeated. Scary as NMM was, she was defeated. Heck, if you really want to argue, Chrysalis was the most frightening because she actually managed to disable the Elements of Harmony and prevent them from using them to defeat her.

Not like Discord, no. He pushed their buttons in a very specific way that made them question their own elements. The headgames he pulled? That was something that we have not seen in the rest of the series.

 

The discordings of the mane Six- were they or were they not some of the most effective scenes in the series?

 

The thing that made Discord fun wasn't the fact that he was a threat. It was the fact that he was a goofy, chaotic being. Yes, he could be scary, and yes, he had the ability to get into the minds of the Mane 6. But didn't Sombra get into Twilight's head? Didn't Chrysalis get everyone to turn a blind eye to her?

Not as powerfully and personally as Discord did. Hell, Sombra was barely even *there*.

 

Why do you think that just because a character was villainous the only way that they can be interesting is to be villainous? The best characters are the ones that keep us coming for more, and who do it through growth. By denying Discord this epiphany, you deny him the ability to keep growing and keep us interesting.

I;m not saying he can't be interesting, I'm asking what can "reformed" Discord bring to the table that's as game changing as the Chaotic Evil-leaning villain from the season 2 premiere.

 

He's still the same person. He's still Chaotic Neutral and you are out of your mind if you think that this is going to be the last time he causes a problem or to. We now just get the opportunity to see his troublemaking from a new perspective. And if he did come back, there would be no way they could make him interesting. He would either use the same headgames, making them unable to use the Elements, or he would just fully abuse his powers and curbstomp. There's really no middle ground here. This is not them nerfing the character, this is them allowing him to grow and letting him stay necessary. Maybe he's not as much of a threat, but writers can always come up with new threats, the real treat here is that they are capable of maintaining this character importance without changing him inherently.

But by making him less of a threat, they are changing him inherently.

 

He's going to be a nuisance, for sure, but I can't see him being as charismatic when he's just a nuisance. I've always seen him leaning more chaotic evil with the mind games he pulled. Yes, bringing him back would make things repetitive, which is why I say they should have either not brought him back at all, or give him one glorious return before sealing him up for good.

[InfinityWhale 771]

He's going to be a nuisance, for sure, but I can't see him being as charismatic when he's just a nuisance. I've always seen him leaning more chaotic evil with the mind games he pulled. Yes, bringing him back would make things repetitive, which is why I say they should have either not brought him back at all, or give him one glorious return before sealing him up for good.

That, my friend, is just wasted storytelling potential. Isn't it better to have him be a little bit less of a threat and have him return than never have him come back at all? Furthermore, he was never truly Chaotic Evil, because all he really ever cared about was having fun. Now that can still be a distinct possibility, it just relies on him having fun by interacting with other ponies, and seeing how he handles being a friend and trying to be helpful with inherently chaotic powers. As for less charismatic? Puh-lease. With the quality of writing improving every season and John de Lancie working the pipes, he'll but just as charismatic if not moreso.

[hawkflame 3,310]

That, my friend, is just wasted storytelling potential. Isn't it better to have him be a little bit less of a threat and have him return than never have him come back at all?

Not if it means if his character isn't as interesting (which to me is inevitable.

 

Furthermore, he was never truly Chaotic Evil, because all he really ever cared about was having fun. Now that can still be a distinct possibility, it just relies on him having fun by interacting with other ponies, and seeing how he handles being a friend and trying to be helpful with inherently chaotic powers.

Playing headgames with and psychologically breaking ponies for the fun of it? That's not Chaotic Evil?

 

As for less charismatic? Puh-lease. With the quality of writing improving every season and John de Lancie working the pipes, he'll but just as charismatic if not moreso.

Your opinion, but to me, the writing in season 3 was rather uneven compared to the first two seasons. There were some good, even great, episodes, but also several clunkers.

[InfinityWhale 771]

Not if it means if his character isn't as interesting (which to me is inevitable.

 

 

Playing headgames with and psychologically breaking ponies for the fun of it? That's not Chaotic Evil?

 

 

Your opinion, but to me, the writing in season 3 was rather uneven compared to the first two seasons. There were some good, even great, episodes, but also several clunkers.

I would describe Discord as "Chaotic Neutral with tons of power to back up his Chaos and Evil Tendencies". Alignment is a multifaceted and confusing field, trust me.

 

The thing is that the writing has always been uneven, but even the clunkers were pretty good. Look at "Griffon the Brush Off", "Dog and Pony Show", "Baby Cakes", and "Dragon Quest". Yes, not every episode in Season 3 was a perfect episode, but I'll take a "bad" episode like "One Bad Apple" over Gilda ANY DAY.

 

In essence: the specific episodes have variety over all, but the quality as a whole is increasing.

[Verily British 145]

Was he a bad villain? Well, it depends on how one views such matters. If you were to gauge whether a villain is bad or good depending on how successful they were then I'm afraid that practically every villain is bad in that case. Some people judge villains on the quality of their plans, how much power they hold, how bad-ass they are, etc. I ,however, judge a villain based on how they accomplish their goals. I love The Joker because of the way he carries out his plans. I love Discord because he breaks his opponents, he shatters their will, their spirit, this is what makes Discord an awesome villain to me (but then again that's both my canon and fanon head talking).

 

As for what do I think of the reformed Discord? Well for the moment, I don't. I don't think that you should prematurely judge something before you've had a chance to look at it. It's like trying to what a food will taste like purely from its name, we simply don't have the information necessary to predict it. It's very much the same for the reformed Discord, we have had next to no information on how his character will behave or act from now on and thus making it impossible to judge his 'reformed' character accurately before we see him for ourselves.

[Dark Horn 430]

I think Meghan is right - keeping Discord in the Mane 6's pocket is a good plan, then using him once more to help the Mane 6 do something great before he goes away would be ideal.

[NavelColt 22,883]

I've explained this in detail elsewhere in numerous places, so I'll keep it basic.

 

Nope, not a bad thing. Mostly a good thing. He now gets to be used more, which for a charismatic character like him, is great. There are those like hawk who can't get past the fact that he can't be a villain anymore, but, honestly, oh well. It is how it is. You can either continue to be negative about it, or you can try and be positive. That's how I see it.

[Kyoshi Frost Wolf 41,980]

Could not have said it better. I too see the many possibilities with him reformed. There is only so much they can do with him as a villain and this is a perfect example where change is a great thing. I have heard complaints about this in the past and those were very baseless. Literally, they did not really have any argument why. Just another example of bronies that loathe any kind of change or advancement.

 

Discord never really had the personality of a villain and I am so happy that now he will not be treated as such. He is just a very over-the-top prankster and this makes him fun. ReformeDiscord is another reason to why I am REALLY looking forward to the future of the show.

Edited July 9, 2013 by Kyoshi

[LordDiscord 289]

Where as I do love the concept of Discord being a ally, as this could be good for his character to develop. I still fill that Discord should have been a series final enemy, because what we have learned so far about Equestrian  culture is that they mostly live in harmony and even the protagonist represent harmony in a way. But Discord is the opposite of harmony and is a detrimental force to Equestria. So having everything Twilight and her friends did, be part of a plan Celestia set up so her student would be read to face the most powerful enemy to Equestria and would have did wonders for Discord as a character because we would be introduced to a character who very existence is in contrast to Equestria's society as a final battle and obstacle for Twilight and her friends to over come.

[TotalNeon 72]

Discord is probably my favourite character, even above the Mane Six, and I personally really like the idea of him being an unpredictable ally rather than an all out villain. Don't get me wrong, I love Discord as an all out villain too, but I think his reformation will lead to his overall nature becoming more fleshed out. I'm really looking forward to seeing him in future episodes, and what the writers do with him.

[Ihei 714]

Reforming Discord wouldn't be that bad.. at least now he could appear more in the episodes. Besides, I have to admit, he was pretty funny in the "The Return of the Elements of Harmony" episode.

[Nerdy Luigi 2,065]

Discord is the best villain. And why not?

And for the same reason he is the best villain, he would be an AWESOME character after reformation.

[RockinRarity 1,605]

Oh and if they don't bring him back more than once, the whole reformation would have been completely pointless.

 

While I am of the opinion that having Discord be reformed is an overall good thing for the show because it opens up lots of fun opportunities to have him in the show, I do agree with this much.

 

If they were going to bother reforming him, they had better actually have him in the show from time to time. Hopefully, too, we will get to see some character development from him as well. And maybe they can make the whole Discord Is Starswirl thing canon~ that would make me happy happy happy ^^;;

Edited July 19, 2013 by RockinRarity

[RrVPfX9cPtw59FpC 1,304]

Discord is the most awesome villain! He's just like the joker! I liked the way they reformed him, and hope to see more of him in season four!