MLP and Vegetarianism

[Cwanky 17,567]

The vegetarian thing seems to be solely due to the fact that equines are herbivorous. I can understand them having livestock (cows for milk, chickens for eggs, sheep for wool, haven't figured out pigs yet), but the execution in the show is flawed. They had the idea of farming and livestock, and they had the idea of talking animals (both of which are legitimate), and made the mistake of combining them.

 

Another possibility is that this is a disguised statement on the treatment of livestock. Animals can't talk (in any human language), but they can think and feel. Anthropomorphising  livestock may be a clever way to subliminally suggest to the next generation that animals deserve to not be abused. Even if they are fated to become food, it doesn't justify the current situation.

To say that the vegetarianism is solely due to the fact that equines are herbivorous is overstating and oversimplifying things a bit much. I've seen shows where normally herbivorous animals eat meat regularly. 

If you've seen Rocko's Modern Life you'd know that a guy like Heifer has no problem devouring his fellow farm critters, even citizens as seen with Chokey Chicken, where no one has a problem w/ devouring the otherwise workers of said franchise as food. But I digress...

 

Take a step back a moment. MLP:FiM is originally intended to be a kid's show and barely PG-13 if that, it has a very friendly and positive environment designed for similar reasons (outside the comics of course) and the ponies are portrayed to be oh so peaceful and lovable to a nauseating extent, something the show seems quite aware of and unfortunately inherits from older generations.

 

In that context it makes sense that you wouldn't want kids to realize that ponies and similar like peaceful creatures would eat something like meat, which by its nature is produced by murdering and dismembering animals that you often exploited for those purposes. From the marketing perspective of Hasbro and perhaps the writers, this is a big no no.

 

This is my main point here. The show goes out of its ways in some instances to promote a sense of nonviolence through veganism to show that other creatures are just as loved (the "good" ones at least). But then they have no problem with treating them as 2nd class citizens, especially when they clearly demonstrate comparable intelligence to the ponies. There's no excuse for that or any bad writing. Good intentions do not excuse inconsistent and poor writing and representations that clearly reflect the contrary.

[CT-1138 3,182]

The belief that horses are purely herbivorous is a myth, as with most "pure herbivores". Very very few animals are purely anything. Deer have been recorded as active omnivores, actively seeking and hunting down live birds for consumption. Hippopotami have been observed bullying lions away from a carcass to feed, dogs eat grasses for medicinal reasons, and horses have been recorded eating flesh if given the chance. I really don't see any reason to assume the My Little Ponies won't eat meat, just because it is a popular misconception that horses are pure herbivores.

[Malinter 3,064]

Pinkie mentions eating 'hot-dogs' during the 'running of the leaves' event and we all know how many grinded up animals are in those things.

[Cwanky 17,567]

Pinkie mentions eating 'hot-dogs' during the 'running of the leaves' event and we all know how many grinded up animals are in those things.

Actually we wouldn't even need to take into consideration Lauren Faust's assertion that the dogs are vegetarian to reconcile this issue. The answer is more subtle, albeit easily reconcilable.

 

Recall that Rainbow Dash is friends w/ Gilda Griffin and she even went to flight academy with her. Regarding griffins, we also know that Gustave LeGrande was one of the top competitors in the Canterlot baking contest which Celestia likely either sponsored, or at the least approved of since she was there herself sampling the baked goods and sweets. All that aside, this heavily implies that the griffins are at least at some level on peaceful or at least diplomatic terms w/ the griffon kingdom(s) or parts of their society. 

 

Given their sharp claws and in mythology their tendency towards fierceness, aggression and predatory lore, it is far from unreasonable to assume that in the show they would have at least if not a carnivorous diet then an omnivorous one. Creatures like the weasels being fed fish by Fluttershy in the OP and the fact that Spike tries to trick Owlowiscious w/ a toy mouse, (owls are predatory and have sharp talons too) supports the existence of carnivores in the show and meat consumption at some level. 

 

Thus if griffins are assumed to eat meat, probably from the nonintelligent species like annoying rabbits such as Angel the bunny and chickens, then we can assume that they produce meat products. In a kids show I don't think it would be too wise to have the intelligent animals used as food products, the line is drawn w/ "lower" animals like chickens that don't have comparable human sapience. As a consequence of griffon interaction w/ Equestrian pony culture, meat products may inevitably draw the attention of other sapient equine species who due to their morals and beliefs, substitute meat w/ products like soy and tofu to replicate products like hamburgers and hot dogs.

 

Long story short, ponies may have simply been fascinated and even enjoyed meat based products that other meat eating species like griffins they interact w/ consume regularly, and thus created alternative substitutes for those products that don't violate their morals.

[imlizyeah 56]

I think mlp wants to chalk it up to a strange social agreement. Oftentimes ponies use other ponies for labor, travel, etc. I guess they wish the viewers to think the other hooves animals function that way?

[KikiTwilight 90]

I personally believe (or at least, I want to believe) that the ponies ARE vegetarians. Not vegans, that's obvious, but lacto-ovo-vegetarians. Pinkie mentioned that in her song (I guess she knows what the word vegetarian means?), and their sandwiches we've been shown are usually with daisies, and not meat of any sort. The hot-dogs or hamburgers they mention don't even need to be of meat. We can't know it. They might be made of soya? I eat such, they are veggie, and they look almost exactly as the ones with meat. They even almost taste the same.

 

Some scenes do, however, show ponies mistreating their farm animals, and that does annoy me.

 

Not the scene with Fluttershy and chickens, as that seemed to me more like obedience correction and care for safety than true mistreating.

 

However, scenes with Applejack and her animals... she is rather mean towards her cows, and towards her sheep. She rounds them up, makes them live with literally no space for themselves, crowded with the other animals, and shows no regret for doing so. She doesn't even bother talking to them to see what the problem is, even though - obviously, they can talk. The only time I heard her talking to them is when they went stampeding to Ponyville (yeah, that one's good), but...

 

And what about pigs? We still hadn't realized what she's doing with them? Not eat, but... does she only use them to eat rotten apples? Or?

[Malinter 3,064]

Can vegitarians eat cake and donuts. That will answer this question. I you can sub all the ingredients out that a vegitarian can't have then we could say they were full vegitarians.

Edited October 26, 2013 by Malinter

[KikiTwilight 90]

Can vegitarians eat cake and donuts. That will answer this question. I you can sub all the ingredients out that a vegitarian can't have then we could say they were full vegitarians.

 

Vegans can't (even they can some, that have no milk or eggs), but vegetarians can. We all know they eat milk and eggs. We saw them zillion times. But they were never even mentioned being vegans.

 

They shouldn't eat any sweet containing gelatin though, even though I'm highly suspicious of that (marshmallows?) Rarity and Applejack ate on Look Before You Sleep.

[\/ 651]

You've got some good points here, I just don't think it's that big of a deal. That being said, I would really appreciate it if the series would decrease it's use of contradictions for the sake of convenience.

 

Only thing that really bothered me was when 'Fluttershy' said veggie burger in EG.  A burger comes from the ingredient hamburger, a type of meat, if there is no hamburger meat on it then it is not a 'burger'. A "veggie-burger" doesn't have meat on it, therefore it is not a burger at all, IT'S JUST A SANDWICH.

Really it wouldn't be a sandwich, but a vegetable patty. If you want to be specific, yes that's what you'd call it, but do you think a kid would get "vegetable patty" over "veggie-burger"?

[Malinter 3,064]

Vegans can't (even they can some, that have no milk or eggs), but vegetarians can. We all know they eat milk and eggs. We saw them zillion times. But they were never even mentioned being vegans.

 

They shouldn't eat any sweet containing gelatin though, even though I'm highly suspicious of that (marshmallows?) Rarity and Applejack ate on Look Before You Sleep.

 

If any pony is Vegan it would be fluttershy. if she were she could eat the same food as her animals (and save bits), plus she likes baby animals and eating egg would probably freak her out.

[Slaigh 118]

Really it wouldn't be a sandwich, but a vegetable patty. If you want to be specific, yes that's what you'd call it, but do you think a kid would get "vegetable patty" over "veggie-burger"?

 

The thing the kid wouldn't get is why anyone would want to replace a delectable piece of dead meat with vegetables. *joke*

 

What I said was not actually serious, it was a fake rant because I didn't have a real side to take since I kinda agree with op. Since I'm apparently terrible with internet sarcasm, see posts #28 and #49 for my responses to all others who have thought I was serious.

 

However, kids would totally get veggie patty. When you put an egg patty (yes they do exist) on a bun it becomes an egg sandwich, not an egg-burger; so it makes perfect sense to call a veggie patty on a bun a veggie sandwich.

[Dattebayo 2,850]

*response to locked thread*

 

Pigs would most likely go extinct if it weren't for us breeding them for food (same for cows, but I digress).

Other than that and manure, they are very useless animals.

 

/I lived on a rancho, friend, I know my isht. x)

 

Why do you think they keep pigs around, then? ;o

[Sunny Fox 5,950]

Why do you think they keep pigs around, then? ;o

Pigs need a place to live too. Plus they can find truffles.

[Tetrakemy 221]

How would ponies view other eating meat? Like us for example?

[Dattebayo 2,850]

Pigs need a place to live too. Plus they can find truffles.

It's been proven that other animals in Equestria are sentient (like the cows)...

So, by your logic (that they just need a place to live), the possibly-sentient pigs in a pen filled with mud are denied housing by the dominant pony race..?

 

I'd rather not think it's so, it's too dark for a kid's show... x)

 

/I doubt Applejack has need for truffles, unless she sells them when the cameras are off, which I doubt.

How would ponies view other eating meat? Like us for example?

I doubt they eat cows, as they talk...

But pigs don't seem to have higher thought as they're corralled and they wallow in dirt...

 

I don't know, maybe they eat pigs, is what I'm saying.

Dash was eating a ham sandwich, after all. x)

 

So basically, fine with it as long as it doesn't have a talking l, thinking face.

[Sunny Fox 5,950]

It's been proven that other animals in Equestria are sentient (like the cows)...

So, by your logic (that they just need a place to live), the possibly-sentient pigs in a pen filled with mud are denied housing by the dominant pony race..?

 

I'd rather not think it's so, it's too dark for a kid's show... x)

 

/I doubt Applejack has need for truffles, unless she sells them when the cameras are off, which I doubt.

The cows, while sentient, don't live in houses either... they live in a barn, like farm cows. The sheep, who also have spoken, are kept in a pen. The chickens are kept in a henhouse, but they're probably not sentient. What makes pigs the necessary exception?

 

And you're saying the implication that the ponies deny them houses is too dark for the show, but the implication that they slaughter and eat them is fine. Seems a little illogical to me.

 

Maybe ponies like truffles as a delicacy, who knows. We've also seen a number of the pigs being entered into competitions, so maybe they're all prize pigs.

[Dattebayo 2,850]

My uncle (a rancher) used to tell me that mushrooms of any kind are harmful to horses, that's why I doubt they eat truffles.

 

I suppose, about the prize pig part.

Though it seems very wasteful to keep that many pigs alive and well fed without any plan to..y know...eat them. x)

 

I remember that in the comics, Applejack shouts "Pork chops and Apple sauce!" when she was getting chased.

How would they know what pork chops are? xD

Edited April 5, 2014 by Dattebayo

[SharpWit 2,611]

Fish are often an animal not thought of much when it comes to how they are treated so fluttershy's actions in feeding other critters isn't really going against a vegetarian diet and same goes for worms. Nothing is wrong with eating chicken eggs, and I assume that pigs are used as a way of recycling. feed them the scraps. use their dung as fertilizer. give the scraps of the harvest to the pigs. end of story. In the past I have said that cows probably have an agreement to where they pay for land to graze on with money earned from milk and labor. animals of the pasture don't need to live indoors. Sheep probably have something similar only wool instead of milk. they just require a little guidance or ponies enjoy controlling herds of animals. The only problem I've seen is griffons. Gilda ate an apple but surely a creature that is half lion half eagle excludes meat from its diet except maybe in a few rare cases.

[Treble Bolt 1,122]

 

 

But pigs don't seem to have higher thought as they're corralled and they wallow in dirt...

 

Pig are have cloven hooves....and technically the creator stated that all hoofed animals are equals. It is strange they made them "dumb" because of all the basic farm animals besides horses, pigs are the smartest IRL

 

But, here's what I see with this subject.  I can see where the OP is coming from....but I think that all the little jokes, the references to IRL "kid friendly-fied" places and situations leave room for continuity errors. The focus of every episode is not on little moments but the plot as a whole. These little "additives" not only flesh out the world that would otherwise be bland in lieu of the overarching narrative of the show, but also break up what may be a deeper plot to make way for comedy relief or other little tidbit to not allow children to become bored with the show.  Equestrian diet and animal treatment of those outside the Equine specie are an afterthought, if not thought of at all in the conceptualization of every episode.

This is a good subject to contemplate over, but because of the lack of continuity and thus no clear direction of how things "should be" in the world of Equestria, which we should not compare to our own to begin with, it's hard to really come to definitive consensus....

[Dattebayo 2,850]

Nothing is better than overthinking about your favorite cartoon... x)

[Shenron00 366]

Well in reality, horses/ponies are vegetarians, so you think the writers would be a bit more realistic when a scene that involved eating comes up. Besides, even if they DID eat meat, horses/ponies are equines and would never consider cannibalising one of their own kind such as pigs, cows, sheep, etc.

[Freewave 1,145]

I certainly don't mind that MLP in a way promotes vegetarianism as once you start examining animals as sentient life and horses coming into this world as herbivores it's natural to make that conclusion. You do bring up ample hypocrisy with the ponies being superior to cows and sheep and still using them as livestock despite their intelligence. I wouldn't get too volatile with that or think that the ponies are necessarily eating these creatures (i guess its possible in some grimdark fanfiction to explore that).

 

Incidentally I've been enjoying the fimfic "Your Human and You" which is a great take of cannon Equestria which happens to have humans in it as both livestock, pets, and even practical slave labor. While that fiction explores the universe from the pov of a human dropped in from earth who is intelligent not a neandrathal like the rest of the humans in equestria its interesting to show equestria where humans are second class beings and not thought of well (much like cows and sheep in our cannon form). They even give ample spotlight to the main character wishing to eat meat but it not being available and it being disgusting in a herbivore society. A very good read for those who like to see the difference between humans and intelligent ponies and what that really would curtail if we just dropped in over there.   

Edited April 5, 2014 by Freewave

[Zekromic 1,054]

Well, I'll put it simple, these ponies are vegan, as expected from herbivore animals, though they eat other sorts of food that is unusual for equines to consume, like sweets, eggs, etc, it's a cartoon for the love of God (the absence of meat makes sense though, despite that there are cases of horses eating meat in extreme conditions)  

 

And why with over-analyzing a kids show with racism and stiff with the mules, cows and sheep, they are used for jokes and as a way for kids to identify them with amreican life, like MANY OTHER SHOWS HAVE DONE BEFORE    

[Vixor 80]

I certainly don't mind that MLP in a way promotes vegetarianism as once you start examining animals as sentient life and horses coming into this world as herbivores it's natural to make that conclusion. You do bring up ample hypocrisy with the ponies being superior to cows and sheep and still using them as livestock despite their intelligence. I wouldn't get too volatile with that or think that the ponies are necessarily eating these creatures (i guess its possible in some grimdark fanfiction to explore that).

 

Incidentally I've been enjoying the fimfic "Your Human and You" which is a great take of cannon Equestria which happens to have humans in it as both livestock, pets, and even practical slave labor. While that fiction explores the universe from the pov of a human dropped in from earth who is intelligent not a neandrathal like the rest of the humans in equestria its interesting to show equestria where humans are second class beings and not thought of well (much like cows and sheep in our cannon form). They even give ample spotlight to the main character wishing to eat meat but it not being available and it being disgusting in a herbivore society. A very good read for those who like to see the difference between humans and intelligent ponies and what that really would curtail if we just dropped in over there.   

Your Human and You is an interesting idea, but I personally don't see it as anything more than a 'what if' alternate universe scenario that isn't necessarily an accurate portrayal of what the ponies would do in a situation like that. That does not in any way make the story a bad thing; quite the opposite since fanfics are meant to explore those what-ifs, but I wouldn't associate a premise like that with 'canon Equestria'. 

Edited April 6, 2014 by Vixor

[Static Electricity 729]

Look at the way ponies treat zebras, and donkeys. I'm not surprised they don't care about non-equines.