S02:E19 - Putting Your Hoof Down

[Mister Jack 566]

[New2Colour 19]

^

I be liking this!

You sent it on over to Equestria Daily yet?

[Mister Jack 566]

I don't submit things to EqD that I didn't make myself.

[Steel Accord 6,660]

Well, for me at least, it's because she's so innocent and nice normally. I love Fluttershy for that, but seeing such stark contrast is also entertaining. Also, I know that I and a lot of other people like seeing good characters turn bad in movies/books/whatever, so this is kinda like that, just toned down since it's a kid show.

 

 

But anyway...

 

ho. ly. shit.

 

This is my new favorite episode, hooves down. My username, my entire ponysona, is based off of evil Fluttershy, and now she got her own episode.

 

EvilshyNew Fluttershy is pleased that she is getting the respect she deserves.

 

Also, Mr. T and Rocky references in the same episode. Words cannot describe this awesome.

 

I can see the logic in that. Perhaps I'm too close to the issue because it just seems like a sudden loss of innocence and purity. Which are two traits I find appealing in women and women characters. I apologize for any perceived anger, I was exhausted and a bit cranky when I types that last night.

 

 

NOPONY PUSHES AROUND NEW FLUTTERSHY!

 

NOPONY!!

 

I hope someone draws her doing that with those little handwings of hers.

 

I liked it when she held her bag with her wing. I thought that was cute.

[Laydee Kaze 400]

I quite liked the 'assertive' fluttershy x3

 

Fluttershy reminds me of myself alot, in terms of, I'd rather just let people do their thing and not get in their way, and such. I think I need some of those coaching lessons! xD

[Jokuc 8,173]

"Evilshy", "Flutterhulk", "New Fluttershy".. Whatever you wanna call her.. I quite like how she's being mean xD

[Emerald Flame 381]

Like others have said, I think I enjoyed the episode so much because I can sympathize with Fluttershy's feelings before she attended Iron Will's seminar. It feels pretty bad, to say the least.

[Sandwhisper 33]

The handwings...

Cannot unsee.

Cannot.

UNSEE.

[Warbalist 133]

Thank you! I was glad when I saw your comparison. I was a bit jealous though. I thought I might have been the first to notice. Oh well!

 

Fluttershy is now The Hulk!

 

I'm sure you did know first, considering how late I tend to wake up!

[Queen Cassie 3,057]

I needed to watch the episode twice before I could fully offer my thoughts, because I was shocked and horrified by a lot of the episode the first time through. The second time...was no different.

 

The episode allowed us to see things through Fluttershy's eyes in a way we haven't quite been able to before. We knew that she wasn't exactly assertive, that she was easily pushed around, but we didn't quite understand until now just how terribly she's treated a lot of the time. Angel Bunny's behavior, for example, was downright disgusting. I'm not a violent person by any means, but I wanted to punch that stupid rabbit in the face. Hard. Repeatedly. He was outright treating her like an abusive husband, the sort of treatment I just cannot stand.

 

Rarity and Pinkie Pie showed serious manipulative abilities as the episode progressed. Rarity's behavior in particular felt to me like it was almost a little cruel. She knows she's got charm, and she uses it. While it's good to see her using it intelligently, as we have in the past, it does cast behavior in previous episodes in a much more negative light. It also has me wondering, not for the first time, just how lonely Rarity actually is...something I wonder because I feel like the charm and beauty she presents to the stallions and mares of Ponyville might prevent many of them from looking deeper into who she is, seeing only the surface and none of the deeper psyche.

 

Whereas Pinkie Pie actually impressed me with hers. She seems to be improving, socially, in terms of getting her hyperactivity under control and applying a bit more...finesse, so to speak. That said, I also felt like it was completely unnecessary. I can't speak to the relative market value of tomatoes in terms of bits, since I don't know what the purchasing power of a bit really is, but given that they're purchasing all of their groceries in a bazaar type market, that tomato growing pony probably had a good reason to set her price at two bits. Sure, they could haggle over the price, but it looked more like Pinkie just pushed the seller into selling the tomatoes for a lower price for no good reason. I don't approve, even if I am impressed by how Pinkie pulled it off.

 

As the episode progressed it's no wonder that Fluttershy was enraptured by Iron Will's assertiveness training seminar. It's true that Fluttershy could be more assertive, but of course we all know that Iron Will's way essentially goes against our favorite butter-yellow Pegasus' personality and Element of Kindness. But can we really be surprised that Fluttershy became so angry?

 

Watching the episode, I got the feeling that Fluttershy has been building up a lot of anger for a long, long time. Not only is she angry about how she's treated, but she's also angry about how the rest of her friends get more respect than she does. Listening to her diatribe towards Rarity and Pinkie, I suspect she was airing out exactly how she feels about their careers compared to her own. Fluttershy cares for animals, possibly running an animal shelter, pet adoptions, does other things along those lines...she performs a crucial service for Ponyville, especially in the world of Equestria where everything is much more controlled by the ponies than it would be by humans in our reality. Yet does she get the respect she deserves? No! She doesn't! But look at Pinkie and Rarity, whose pursuits are arguably less valuable to the community. While I would argue that for Rarity much more than Pinkie when it comes to an objective perspective on the situation, since Rarity merely provides luxury goods while Pinkie helps with the morale of the town, from Fluttershy's perspective they barely contribute at all, and yet they're loved for it. She's jealous and hurt by the amount of respect they get, and she was finally able to let it all out. That said, I was still horrified by her entire speech. As others have pointed out both in this thread and others, that speech was far more harsh and insulting than anything heard on the show before. Which is a good thing. It's good because it was from the heart, Fluttershy's real feelings finally made clear. It's an insight into her psyche that was dearly needed.

 

Iron Will as a character is...cliche ridden, and yet fascinating nevertheless. Minotaurs are a favorite mythological creature of mine, since I tend to really enjoy Greek mythology, so seeing him present--especially with his seminar at the middle of a labyrinth--gave the episode some significant doses of humor. While fairly heavy-handed in the sense of being a reference to a number of different shows, including a lot of wrestling, he actually turned out to be...more like a plot device than an antagonist. He honored his deal with Fluttershy after all, even if it took her being assertive to do it.

 

And yet...and yet...this episode still fell a bit short of the mark. Those of you commenting that it has the feeling of Mysterious Mare Do Well? There's a good reason for that: Merriweather Williams wrote both that episode and this one. The structure of the episode was well composed. It built up a lot to zip straight into an ending that was not well developed. In truth, it felt like the episode just didn't have enough time to touch on everything it needed to, because it was forced to fit into twenty-two minutes. A number of scenes and events could have used significant expansion, especially the last six minutes of the episode or so. And while some character development was good, what we did see of it was almost forced, because a couple of the characters had traits that were once again exaggerated. Fluttershy forgot her Stare till the end of the episode. Rarity was a bit too like the stuck up stereotype she's often slapped with. And so on.

 

I'm starting to think that Merriweather Williams should be relegated to concept and editing, rather than full out writing. I mean no offense, but given that Williams has had a 33% success rate with the episodes written thus far--the only good one has been Hearth's Warming Eve, and even THERE some of these same problems with handling characterization appeared--I'm not sure Williams can properly write for the show. I'm not about to place Putting Your Hoof Down as far down as Mysterious Mare Do Well, but it was NOT one of the better episodes of the show. It had its good moments, and it did give us some nice insight into Fluttershy's psyche, but like Arylett I do not feel it came remotely close to fulfilling the need for more focus on Fluttershy. I can only hope Hurricane Fluttershy turns out to be a better episode.

 

Oh yes, and one last thing: the technology displayed in the episode? Yeah, I give up trying to make Equestrian technology consistent now.

Edited March 5, 2012 by Kyronea

[DrOphthalmos 497]

Kyronea, as I've said before, I love your walls of text. For anypony else, I would have thought TL;DR but I read yours. You do make valid points however I think saying Merriweather Williams should stop writing is a bit extreme. I know you don't consider this episode to be a success but read some of the other comments on here - lots of people did like it! Yes, it could have been done better if the show was longer but I think they did a good job with the short time they are allotted. I liked this episode to the point of watching it three times.

 

In the end, if you try to please everypony, you wind up pleasing no pony. Merriweather Williams might not be pleasing everypony, but she is definitely pleasing someponies.

 

As for technology, they are ponies and will use it or not use it as they please.

 

Oh, and as for Angel - his slapping Fluttershy was very shocking. You are absolutely right - he was being terribly abusive. But then, I thought - wow, this would be a great episode to watch with a child because you can point out how WRONG Angel is behaving. Children are often picky eaters, especially when it comes to vegetables. Having Angel act like such a spoiled brat and being so obviously wrong, makes it easy to point out to children that is NOT the way to behave. Though, have fun trying to explain to a child the pros and cons of how Rarity and Pinkie Pie handle things.

 

I'm starting to think that Merriweather Williams should be relegated to concept and editing, rather than full out writing. I mean no offense, but given that Williams has had a 33% success rate with the episodes written thus far--the only good one has been Hearth's Warming Eve, and even THERE some of these same problems with handling characterization appeared--I'm not sure Williams can properly write for the show. I'm not about to place Putting Your Hoof Down as far down as Mysterious Mare Do Well, but it was NOT one of the better episodes of the show. It had its good moments, and it did give us some nice insight into Fluttershy's psyche, but like Arylett I do not feel it came remotely close to fulfilling the need for more focus on Fluttershy. I can only hope Hurricane Fluttershy turns out to be a better episode.

 

Oh yes, and one last thing: the technology displayed in the episode? Yeah, I give up trying to make Equestrian technology consistent now.

 

[Queen Cassie 3,057]

Kyronea, as I've said before, I love your walls of text. For anypony else, I would have thought TL;DR but I read yours. You do make valid points however I think saying Merriweather Williams should stop writing is a bit extreme. I know you don't consider this episode to be a success but read some of the other comments on here - lots of people did like it! Yes, it could have been done better if the show was longer but I think they did a good job with the short time they are allotted. I liked this episode to the point of watching it three times.

 

In the end, if you try to please everypony, you wind up pleasing no pony. Merriweather Williams might not be pleasing everypony, but she is definitely pleasing someponies.

 

As for technology, they are ponies and will use it or not use it as they please.

 

Oh, and as for Angel - his slapping Fluttershy was very shocking. You are absolutely right - he was being terribly abusive. But then, I thought - wow, this would be a great episode to watch with a child because you can point out how WRONG Angel is behaving. Children are often picky eaters, especially when it comes to vegetables. Having Angel act like such a spoiled brat and being so obviously wrong, makes it easy to point out to children that is NOT the way to behave. Though, have fun trying to explain to a child the pros and cons of how Rarity and Pinkie Pie handle things.

 

It...perhaps it is a bit extreme to say that Merriweather Williams should stop writing episodes, yes. I should give Williams more of a chance. After all, Hearth's Warming Eve was a fairly rip-roaring success.

 

The problem with this episode is that even within the timespan of twenty-two minutes, they could have done better by using some of the episode time in a better way. For example, why waste time with a second Duck Season/Rabbit Season gag with Pinkie and Iron Will, only to have Fluttershy alert Iron Will immediately afterwards to her presence? It's not nearly as funny the second time around, and the time wasted by that scene could have been better used to shore up other events.

 

In addition, Twilight, Applejack, and Rainbow Dash being missing is egregrious. I understand why they might've wanted to at least keep Rainbow Dash and Applejack from being present when Fluttershy was unleashing her rage, because unlike Rarity and Pinkie Pie--or unlike Twilight for that matter--Rainbow Dash would have either launched into her own tirade or possibly even attacked Fluttershy. Applejack, while her response probably wouldn't be to attack Fluttershy, also would not have bowed down, extending the scene past its useful point.

 

But later? At Fluttershý's cottage? There's no reason the others of the Mane Six couldn't be there.

 

If I were editing this episode, I would have changed up some things significantly. I'd have altered Fluttershy's aggressive asserting scenes so that they each involved one of the Mane Six, rather than random background ponies, culminating in her letting loose on Pinkie Pie and Rarity as she does in the episode. I also would have involved the rest of the Mane Six at Fluttershy's cottage, and possibly even interject a scene of Fluttershy in self-contemplation, so that her sudden "real assertive" behavior at the end of the episode doesn't come out of nowhere.

 

Frankly, I feel that, like Mysterious Mare Do Well, the basic concept behind this episode was not bad. It was golden, in fact! The execution leaves a LOT to be desired. I realize I'm in the minority with my opinion, but that's what I feel about it.

 

My technology comment was directed at the schizophrenic nature of technology on display in Equestria, to borrow a phrase from someone else...I don't remember who said it, but I think it was on this forum. I could go into more detail, but that would be straying a little too far off topic. Suffice to say that up until the last few episodes I thought I had Equestria's technological level pinned, but now it appears I was completely off the mark.

 

And you're right that Angel Bunny's behavior is, arguably, a way to demonstrate to kids how they're not supposed to act. That doesn't make it any more pleasant to watch, however. I know plenty of people found that scene funny, but I just can't laugh at it.

[DrOphthalmos 497]

And you're right that Angel Bunny's behavior is, arguably, a way to demonstrate to kids how they're not supposed to act. That doesn't make it any more pleasant to watch, however. I know plenty of people found that scene funny, but I just can't laugh at it.

 

Really? Funny? I did not laugh at Angel's behavior - the first thing that popped into my head was, "if I was watching this with my kid, I would probably pause the episode just to say, 'do not ever, EVER, behave like THAT!'" Then at the end I would say, "See? Angel was being a meanie for no reason. The food Fluttershy was giving him was just fine just like the food I give you is just fine. Now eat your vegetables!"

 

But later? At Fluttershý's cottage? There's no reason the others of the Mane Six couldn't be there.

 

I agree and mentioned it in an earlier post. That was definitely odd. You would have expected all 5 of the other ponies to be there knocking on her door. Why would Rarity and Pinkie Pie keep that private? Maybe because they did not want the other ponies to find out how Fluttershy ripped them to shreds with her mean words? Hmmm...

[hwrogers 168]

my responses will be in [brackets]

 

It...perhaps it is a bit extreme to say that Merriweather Williams should stop writing episodes, yes. I should give Williams more of a chance. After all, Hearth's Warming Eve was a fairly rip-roaring success.

 

The problem with this episode is that even within the timespan of twenty-two minutes, they could have done better by using some of the episode time in a better way. For example, why waste time with a second Duck Season/Rabbit Season gag with Pinkie and Iron Will, only to have Fluttershy alert Iron Will immediately afterwards to her presence? It's not nearly as funny the second time around, and the time wasted by that scene could have been better used to shore up other events.

 

[agreed, but it is only a few seconds of a kid's show, not a helluva lot really could be done in such a short time]

 

In addition, Twilight, Applejack, and Rainbow Dash being missing is egregrious. I understand why they might've wanted to at least keep Rainbow Dash and Applejack from being present when Fluttershy was unleashing her rage, because unlike Rarity and Pinkie Pie--or unlike Twilight for that matter--Rainbow Dash would have either launched into her own tirade or possibly even attacked Fluttershy. Applejack, while her response probably wouldn't be to attack Fluttershy, also would not have bowed down, extending the scene past its useful point.

 

[i think twi would be too bound to logic and reason to back down easily enough that she wouldn't extend the scene past practicality]

 

But later? At Fluttershý's cottage? There's no reason the others of the Mane Six couldn't be there.

 

[it would have made the scene again impractically long, rarity and pinkie were needed for it, the rest would have made for a cluttered and disorganised finale as each would try to protect FS from iron will, and RD as well as AJ would have simply chosen to kick him to kingdom come.]

 

If I were editing this episode, I would have changed up some things significantly. I'd have altered Fluttershy's aggressive asserting scenes so that they each involved one of the Mane Six, rather than random background ponies, culminating in her letting loose on Pinkie Pie and Rarity as she does in the episode. I also would have involved the rest of the Mane Six at Fluttershy's cottage, and possibly even interject a scene of Fluttershy in self-contemplation, so that her sudden "real assertive" behavior at the end of the episode doesn't come out of nowhere.

 

[again, 22 minutes, the remaining 3 have no time as their personalities would not allow brief enough response to such assault from the sweetest of ponies FS]

 

Frankly, I feel that, like Mysterious Mare Do Well, the basic concept behind this episode was not bad. It was golden, in fact! The execution leaves a LOT to be desired. I realize I'm in the minority with my opinion, but that's what I feel about it.

 

[i really wish this was a full hour show, much more COULD be done, but i feel they are working beautifully with what they are given, being 22 minutes of air time]

 

My technology comment was directed at the schizophrenic nature of technology on display in Equestria, to borrow a phrase from someone else...I don't remember who said it, but I think it was on this forum. I could go into more detail, but that would be straying a little too far off topic. Suffice to say that up until the last few episodes I thought I had Equestria's technological level pinned, but now it appears I was completely off the mark.

 

And you're right that Angel Bunny's behavior is, arguably, a way to demonstrate to kids how they're not supposed to act. That doesn't make it any more pleasant to watch, however. I know plenty of people found that scene funny, but I just can't laugh at it.

 

[i laugh, if nervously, at such behaviour when it is displayed but only because i expect most females to be like my own mom, who would respond with a spoon breaking the time barrier on its way to the back of the offender's head, regardless of the offender's current orientation (yes she can and has...) or placement in the current environment]

 

[DrOphthalmos 497]

For example, why waste time with a second Duck Season/Rabbit Season gag with Pinkie and Iron Will, only to have Fluttershy alert Iron Will immediately afterwards to her presence? It's not nearly as funny the second time around, and the time wasted by that scene could have been better used to shore up other events.

 

 

I think the point of doing that again was to show that Rarity and Pinkie's tricks (that is really what they are) are not as effective as just matter-of-factly asserting yourself. Rarity's seductive trick failed on the Minotaur. Pinkie Pie's trick worked only temporarily (as in real life - that trick might work but the second the person realizes they have been tricked they take it back). Fluttershy coming out and calmly asserting herself without catch phrases, Looney Tunes back-and-forth, or seductive wiles won the day.

[Yellow Diamond 7,569]

As usual, Kyronea raises a litany of excellent points and suggestions. I don't think there is a need to cover each one as they are already well explained and represented.

 

I will, however, touch on a few of them.

 

I'm inclined to agree with you, Kyronea, on the subject of Angel's behavior. I hate abusive characters; I understand they exist in fiction, but terribly ungrateful, spoiled children-like characters have irked me since I was a kid. It's likely due to my intense dislike of people manipulating one another and/or myself. But I can't really find the humor in Angel being downright physically and psychologically abusive toward Fluttershy---hence why I described him outright as a dick. An annoying runt character is bearable, in my opinion; and that is what Angel mainly did as a foil to Fluttershy's passive behavior. I think it is indicative of this episode's trend toward marking characters on the extreme end of the spectrum. For example, we have previously seen Rarity use her charm in comical attempts to manipulate other characters (e.g., the dragon in "Dragonshy"); but she never really staked her pride on that claim. Why is the Element of Generosity toying with the emotions of other ponies? That seems so contrary to the concept of her character and her behavior throughout most of the show.

 

Since the focus has shifted onto Merriweather Williams, I'll point out another common aspect of her writing: Have you noticed she enjoys centering her stories around references to other cartoons/pop culture icons? For example, "The Mysterious Mare Do Well" was one enormous reference to Batman: The Animated Series; this episode had one large wrestling reference in the form of Iron Will. I don't hold it against her since I rather like the references she uses (Note to self: Fluttershy is confirmed for The Avengers). But it may at times be excessive, and Kyronea seems to cite this with respect to Iron Will and the ultimate end of his character.

 

As I said previously, this episode wasn't as strong as past endeavors. A good portion of it was held together by well-placed references and the yearning for Fluttershy. But it is definitely weak, especially in the shadow of "A Friend In Deed."

[cuteycindyhoney 13,307]

I'm sure you did know first, considering how late I tend to wake up!

 

Well, whoever saw it first, I thought it was simply brilliant that the writers added that in for us! It was clearly for the bronies.

[hwrogers 168]

.... But it is definitely weak, especially in the shadow of "A Friend In Deed."

 

sorry but i gotta disagree with this, i think this ep was exactly as strong, for the same reasons. both showed the lead failing at what they do best, (in contrast on the FS ep which cancels the flutterbitch effect IMO) and realising the flaws of their ways. then a moment to represent the passage of time along with deep soul searching and a final reconciliation and correcting of their flaws. the two episodes almost mirror each other.

[Yellow Diamond 7,569]

sorry but i gotta disagree with this, i think this ep was exactly as strong, for the same reasons. both showed the lead failing at what they do best, (in contrast on the FS ep which cancels the flutterbitch effect IMO) and realising the flaws of their ways. then a moment to represent the passage of time along with deep soul searching and a final reconciliation and correcting of their flaws. the two episodes almost mirror each other.

 

Perhaps thematically they are equivalent, and even that I doubt, but they are only as effective as the narrative allows. The narrative structure of "Putting Your Hoof Down" is, in my opinion, weaker than "A Friend In Deed." The latter had moxy and rhythm; this episode... well, I don't think it hit its message very effectively. Ponyville doesn't need to be constantly rainbows and sunshine, yet this was such a radical departure thematically from the season's previous endeavors.

 

While I enjoy Fluttershy picking herself up, I wonder about the ultimate value of the moral which was told.

[hwrogers 168]

the skewed perspective of the episode was so forced in order to make clear the intended moral, "life is going to be a little rough, stand and push back, but not so much you make things rough on everyone else." which i think was almost perfectly portrayed in this episode, similar to the matter of personal space and people's differing opinions in "a friend in deed"

[Queen Cassie 3,057]

Really? Funny? I did not laugh at Angel's behavior - the first thing that popped into my head was, "if I was watching this with my kid, I would probably pause the episode just to say, 'do not ever, EVER, behave like THAT!'" Then at the end I would say, "See? Angel was being a meanie for no reason. The food Fluttershy was giving him was just fine just like the food I give you is just fine. Now eat your vegetables!"

I realize this. My comment was directed in general.

I agree and mentioned it in an earlier post. That was definitely odd. You would have expected all 5 of the other ponies to be there knocking on her door. Why would Rarity and Pinkie Pie keep that private? Maybe because they did not want the other ponies to find out how Fluttershy ripped them to shreds with her mean words? Hmmm...

 

Well, it is possible they didn't keep it private, but that the other three just couldn't make it to the cottage. I find that unlikely, however, because all of them would drop just about anything they're doing to see to Fluttershy. They're all close friends, after all.

 

my responses will be in [brackets]

 

That makes it harder to respond to you, you know, since I'll have to copy and paste manually. Ahem.

 

 

[agreed, but it is only a few seconds of a kid's show, not a helluva lot really could be done in such a short time]

The time used up in that scene was actually about forty seconds, running from 18:14 to 18:52, at least on my copy of the episode. While that isn't exactly much time--some rough number crunching results in 3% of the total run time--it's still a useful fraction of time that could have been, with some other alterations to the episode, used to add to other scenes. It would require other toning down, reworking of larger scenes, etc, but it could still be used.

 

[i think twi would be too bound to logic and reason to back down easily enough that she wouldn't extend the scene past practicality]

[it would have made the scene again impractically long, rarity and pinkie were needed for it, the rest would have made for a cluttered and disorganised finale as each would try to protect FS from iron will, and RD as well as AJ would have simply chosen to kick him to kingdom come.]

 

[again, 22 minutes, the remaining 3 have no time as their personalities would not allow brief enough response to such assault from the sweetest of ponies FS]

 

[i really wish this was a full hour show, much more COULD be done, but i feel they are working beautifully with what they are given, being 22 minutes of air time]

Possibly. We've also seen her become completely flustered enough times that she might've been shocked into silence, though. Still, that's why I figure that scene in particular would still be the crux of Fluttershy demonstrating aggressive cruelty, and still directed against only Rarity and Pinkie Pie. The reworking of the second act of the episode, from her attack on Green Hooves to her final diatribe, would ramp up in just enough ways to keep each scene short, to the point, while still allowing the rest of the Mane Six in on the action to react to what Fluttershy is doing.

 

Still, you're probably right that there wouldn't be enough time, no matter how it's spliced, to allow for all of the Mane Six to fully interact as much as they really should. A full hour would probably be required to really go into depth the way I'd want.

[i laugh, if nervously, at such behaviour when it is displayed but only because i expect most females to be like my own mom, who would respond with a spoon breaking the time barrier on its way to the back of the offender's head, regardless of the offender's current orientation (yes she can and has...) or placement in the current environment]

Fair enough. I can understand and even sympathize with that sort of reaction.

 

I think the point of doing that again was to show that Rarity and Pinkie's tricks (that is really what they are) are not as effective as just matter-of-factly asserting yourself. Rarity's seductive trick failed on the Minotaur. Pinkie Pie's trick worked only temporarily (as in real life - that trick might work but the second the person realizes they have been tricked they take it back). Fluttershy coming out and calmly asserting herself without catch phrases, Looney Tunes back-and-forth, or seductive wiles won the day.

 

That's...not quite right, at least not entirely. It doesn't demonstrate that Rarity and Pinkie Pie's methods of asserting themselves are mere trickery so much as it demonstrates that there are times when their methods work and times when they don't. There are many ways one can assert themselves without being aggressive. While I don't always like the results, Pinkie and Rarity's methods are just as valid as the one that Fluttershy employed at the end of the episode. And Fluttershy's method isn't going to work in all cases either. It worked against Iron Will because the minotaur is used to using his large size and aggressive behavior to intimidate others into doing what he wants them to, but as soon as someone refuses to bow down he crumples. It's actually fairly typical of the sort of personality that Iron Will demonstrates: use your bulk and shouting to mask your cowardice.

 

Still, you do have a good point there.

 

As usual, Kyronea raises a litany of excellent points and suggestions. I don't think there is a need to cover each one as they are already well explained and represented.

 

I will, however, touch on a few of them.

 

I'm inclined to agree with you, Kyronea, on the subject of Angel's behavior. I hate abusive characters; I understand they exist in fiction, but terribly ungrateful, spoiled children-like characters have irked me since I was a kid. It's likely due to my intense dislike of people manipulating one another and/or myself. But I can't really find the humor in Angel being downright physically and psychologically abusive toward Fluttershy---hence why I described him outright as a dick. An annoying runt character is bearable, in my opinion; and that is what Angel mainly did as a foil to Fluttershy's passive behavior. I think it is indicative of this episode's trend toward marking characters on the extreme end of the spectrum. For example, we have previously seen Rarity use her charm in comical attempts to manipulate other characters (e.g., the dragon in "Dragonshy"); but she never really staked her pride on that claim. Why is the Element of Generosity toying with the emotions of other ponies? That seems so contrary to the concept of her character and her behavior throughout most of the show.

In Rarity's case, I wouldn't necessarily say that it's quite as out of character as you're implying. It's hardly the first time she's done this, after all. A Dog and Pony Show was built around her using her charm and wit to twist the Diamond Dog's into letting her go. During The Best Night Ever she employed it to get two stallions to drive their carriage to Canterlot. Then there's her obtaining the fire ruby from Spike.

 

Still, you're right that in this particular episode, she acted quite a bit more extremely with how she used her charm, at least towards non-villains. For example, with Spike and the fire ruby, she wanted it not just because she loves gems, but also because she really does care about the little dragon. The two stallions were probably able to attend the Gala, or at least enjoy the nightlife of Canterlot. But the level she demonstrated in this episode was...insulting, really, because it should only be employed against someone threatening life, limb, and liberty, as the Diamond Dogs were. By comparison this young nerd stereotype of a stallion wasn't exactly treated nicely. Note, however, that she DID give him the same price he paid for the asparagus, so it's not as if she stole the asparagus right out from under him.

 

Rarity's portrayal in season two has been a little bit more inconsistant from episode to episode, possibly due to Lauren Faust leaving the show, especially in, to carry to the next subject, Merriweather Williams episodes.

Since the focus has shifted onto Merriweather Williams, I'll point out another common aspect of her writing: Have you noticed she enjoys centering her stories around references to other cartoons/pop culture icons? For example, "The Mysterious Mare Do Well" was one enormous reference to Batman: The Animated Series; this episode had one large wrestling reference in the form of Iron Will. I don't hold it against her since I rather like the references she uses (Note to self: Fluttershy is confirmed for The Avengers). But it may at times be excessive, and Kyronea seems to cite this with respect to Iron Will and the ultimate end of his character.

I would argue it's incredibly excessive, even if I've liked some of the references. In addition, as I've said before the primary issue I have with Williams' writing is that the characterization is off by a LOT. Each of the characters tends to act in a much more exaggerated fashion when Williams is writing. This was true even in Hearth's Warming Eve...it wasn't as noticeable there because they were technically acting in a play and therefore not truly being themselves anyway, but it was still the case, as can be seen in the brief moments of the episode where they're themselves. If Williams would focus less on making references for the sake of humor and work more on understanding the characters properly and writing them properly, the show would be much better off.

As I said previously, this episode wasn't as strong as past endeavors. A good portion of it was held together by well-placed references and the yearning for Fluttershy. But it is definitely weak, especially in the shadow of "A Friend In Deed."

 

I'm not entirely sure that I agree with this statement...not so much that it's a weak episode so much as that A Friend In Deed wasn't all that much stronger. But that is something I shall save for another thread, since we don't want to stray too far off topic.

[Akemi Homura 7,680]

I needed to watch the episode twice before I could fully offer my thoughts, because I was shocked and horrified by a lot of the episode the first time through. The second time...was no different.

 

The episode allowed us to see things through Fluttershy's eyes in a way we haven't quite been able to before. We knew that she wasn't exactly assertive, that she was easily pushed around, but we didn't quite understand until now just how terribly she's treated a lot of the time. Angel Bunny's behavior, for example, was downright disgusting. I'm not a violent person by any means, but I wanted to punch that stupid rabbit in the face. Hard. Repeatedly. He was outright treating her like an abusive husband, the sort of treatment I just cannot stand.

 

Rarity and Pinkie Pie showed serious manipulative abilities as the episode progressed. Rarity's behavior in particular felt to me like it was almost a little cruel. She knows she's got charm, and she uses it. While it's good to see her using it intelligently, as we have in the past, it does cast behavior in previous episodes in a much more negative light. It also has me wondering, not for the first time, just how lonely Rarity actually is...something I wonder because I feel like the charm and beauty she presents to the stallions and mares of Ponyville might prevent many of them from looking deeper into who she is, seeing only the surface and none of the deeper psyche.

 

Whereas Pinkie Pie actually impressed me with hers. She seems to be improving, socially, in terms of getting her hyperactivity under control and applying a bit more...finesse, so to speak. That said, I also felt like it was completely unnecessary. I can't speak to the relative market value of tomatoes in terms of bits, since I don't know what the purchasing power of a bit really is, but given that they're purchasing all of their groceries in a bazaar type market, that tomato growing pony probably had a good reason to set her price at two bits. Sure, they could haggle over the price, but it looked more like Pinkie just pushed the seller into selling the tomatoes for a lower price for no good reason. I don't approve, even if I am impressed by how Pinkie pulled it off.

 

As the episode progressed it's no wonder that Fluttershy was enraptured by Iron Will's assertiveness training seminar. It's true that Fluttershy could be more assertive, but of course we all know that Iron Will's way essentially goes against our favorite butter-yellow Pegasus' personality and Element of Kindness. But can we really be surprised that Fluttershy became so angry?

 

Watching the episode, I got the feeling that Fluttershy has been building up a lot of anger for a long, long time. Not only is she angry about how she's treated, but she's also angry about how the rest of her friends get more respect than she does. Listening to her diatribe towards Rarity and Pinkie, I suspect she was airing out exactly how she feels about their careers compared to her own. Fluttershy cares for animals, possibly running an animal shelter, pet adoptions, does other things along those lines...she performs a crucial service for Ponyville, especially in the world of Equestria where everything is much more controlled by the ponies than it would be by humans in our reality. Yet does she get the respect she deserves? No! She doesn't! But look at Pinkie and Rarity, whose pursuits are arguably less valuable to the community. While I would argue that for Rarity much more than Pinkie when it comes to an objective perspective on the situation, since Rarity merely provides luxury goods while Pinkie helps with the morale of the town, from Fluttershy's perspective they barely contribute at all, and yet they're loved for it. She's jealous and hurt by the amount of respect they get, and she was finally able to let it all out. That said, I was still horrified by her entire speech. As others have pointed out both in this thread and others, that speech was far more harsh and insulting than anything heard on the show before. Which is a good thing. It's good because it was from the heart, Fluttershy's real feelings finally made clear. It's an insight into her psyche that was dearly needed.

 

Iron Will as a character is...cliche ridden, and yet fascinating nevertheless. Minotaurs are a favorite mythological creature of mine, since I tend to really enjoy Greek mythology, so seeing him present--especially with his seminar at the middle of a labyrinth--gave the episode some significant doses of humor. While fairly heavy-handed in the sense of being a reference to a number of different shows, including a lot of wrestling, he actually turned out to be...more like a plot device than an antagonist. He honored his deal with Fluttershy after all, even if it took her being assertive to do it.

 

And yet...and yet...this episode still fell a bit short of the mark. Those of you commenting that it has the feeling of Mysterious Mare Do Well? There's a good reason for that: Merriweather Williams wrote both that episode and this one. The structure of the episode was well composed. It built up a lot to zip straight into an ending that was not well developed. In truth, it felt like the episode just didn't have enough time to touch on everything it needed to, because it was forced to fit into twenty-two minutes. A number of scenes and events could have used significant expansion, especially the last six minutes of the episode or so. And while some character development was good, what we did see of it was almost forced, because a couple of the characters had traits that were once again exaggerated. Fluttershy forgot her Stare till the end of the episode. Rarity was a bit too like the stuck up stereotype she's often slapped with. And so on.

 

I'm starting to think that Merriweather Williams should be relegated to concept and editing, rather than full out writing. I mean no offense, but given that Williams has had a 33% success rate with the episodes written thus far--the only good one has been Hearth's Warming Eve, and even THERE some of these same problems with handling characterization appeared--I'm not sure Williams can properly write for the show. I'm not about to place Putting Your Hoof Down as far down as Mysterious Mare Do Well, but it was NOT one of the better episodes of the show. It had its good moments, and it did give us some nice insight into Fluttershy's psyche, but like Arylett I do not feel it came remotely close to fulfilling the need for more focus on Fluttershy. I can only hope Hurricane Fluttershy turns out to be a better episode.

 

Oh yes, and one last thing: the technology displayed in the episode? Yeah, I give up trying to make Equestrian technology consistent now.

 

Might I say this, Merriweather Williams wrote a very good episode here. She managed to show us that the characters aren't exactly picture perfect. You could easily see that when Rarity manipulated that nerdy-looking stallion with her looks... which WAS a little cruel. Pinkie Pie wasn't exactly 100% nice in this one either. IMO, everybody took the whole assertive thing a bit too far, but then again, everypony was acting like a jerk in this one.

 

In other episodes, we should keep in mind of these other character traits, because this episode definitely showed us that these ponies have the capability to show their more... negative sides.

[Queen Cassie 3,057]

Might I say this, Merriweather Williams wrote a very good episode here. She managed to show us that the characters aren't exactly picture perfect. You could easily see that when Rarity manipulated that nerdy-looking stallion with her looks... which WAS a little cruel. Pinkie Pie wasn't exactly 100% nice in this one either. IMO, everybody took the whole assertive thing a bit too far, but then again, everypony was acting like a jerk in this one.

 

In other episodes, we should keep in mind of these other character traits, because this episode definitely showed us that these ponies have the capability to show their more... negative sides.

 

Acting like a jerk...that describes pretty much the behavior of everyone in just about every episode that Merriweather Williams writes. In Mysterious Mare Do Well the Mane Six all act like total jerks towards Rainbow Dash. Hearth's Warming Eve masked their jerk behavior with the play characters but it was clearly present. And again here.

 

You are definitely right that we should be keeping the character traits demonstrated in this episode in mind when viewing future episodes. Whether or not I enjoyed it all that much, it is a part of canon, just like every episode before it, and it's definitely going to provide some interesting fuel for my psychological analysis revisions.

[Yellow Diamond 7,569]

In Rarity's case, I wouldn't necessarily say that it's quite as out of character as you're implying. It's hardly the first time she's done this, after all. A Dog and Pony Show was built around her using her charm and wit to twist the Diamond Dog's into letting her go. During The Best Night Ever she employed it to get two stallions to drive their carriage to Canterlot. Then there's her obtaining the fire ruby from Spike.

As you subsequently highlight, Rarity utilizes her charm in order to effect a beneficial situation for herself---however, it either backfires (to illustrate a point, such as when her vanity was rampant in "Sonic Rainboom") or to foil an antagonist, such as the Diamond Dogs. One would think Rarity learned from the first season, and more recently in "Sweet and Elite", that her ability to manipulate is a tool of last resort. Her character should probably be shifting as a result of those lessons. The usage of her charm was almost a token showing; a represenation of her ability to get what she wants. It was more rude than clever, and serves more as a disservice to Rarity's principle development.

 

I would argue it's incredibly excessive, even if I've liked some of the references. In addition, as I've said before the primary issue I have with Williams' writing is that the characterization is off by a LOT. Each of the characters tends to act in a much more exaggerated fashion when Williams is writing. This was true even in Hearth's Warming Eve...it wasn't as noticeable there because they were technically acting in a play and therefore not truly being themselves anyway, but it was still the case, as can be seen in the brief moments of the episode where they're themselves. If Williams would focus less on making references for the sake of humor and work more on understanding the characters properly and writing them properly, the show would be much better off.

I more or less agree with your assessment. For all her wonderful references which I enjoy, Williams has a tendency to get in her own way with them.

 

I'm not entirely sure that I agree with this statement...not so much that it's a weak episode so much as that A Friend In Deed wasn't all that much stronger. But that is something I shall save for another thread, since we don't want to stray too far off topic.

 

For the sake of the topic at hand, we may have to tentatively agree to disagree. Episode preference is a subjective endeavor, so we may ultimate derail this thread by shifting the focus from this particular episode.

[Queen Cassie 3,057]

As you subsequently highlight, Rarity utilizes her charm in order to effect a beneficial situation for herself---however, it either backfires (to illustrate a point, such as when her vanity was rampant in "Sonic Rainboom") or to foil an antagonist, such as the Diamond Dogs. One would think Rarity learned from the first season, and more recently in "Sweet and Elite", that her ability to manipulate is a tool of last resort. Her character should probably be shifting as a result of those lessons. The usage of her charm was almost a token showing; a represenation of her ability to get what she wants. It was more rude than clever, and serves more as a disservice to Rarity's principle development.

Absolutely it's a disservice. While Rarity has had her moments of greed, like any person would, in the past they've usually been understandable, explainable. Yes, even her vanity in Sonic Rainboom makes perfect sense, given her desire for appreciation.

 

But here? She could have been assertive in a different way, at the very least toning down her charm and instead applying a bit more...logic, perhaps. Or instead, Pinkie and Rarity's roles could have been reversed. Pinkie could have handled the stallion through coaxing him to give Fluttershy the asparagus by arguing in favor of how happy it'd make Fluttershy, while Rarity could use her superior business sense, a sense she has to have in order to run her boutique, to haggle with the tomato salespony. It might not necessarily have been as funny, but it would have been more in character for both since it would be an application of lessons they've learned.