Pick a Flaw: S4E22 - Trade Ya!

[Dark Qiviut 22,420]

Going about the tradition of discussing episode flaws in @@Doctor XFizzle's "Pick a Flaw" topics, this one is about discussing a possible quality flaw from Trade Ya! that sticks out most to you and/or the episode at large. In the last topic, "Other" won the most votes. Like the others, there's a poll above for you to choose as well as explain, including an "Other" option.

 

Like what Fizzle said in other threads, if you had to choose ONE reason to dislike an episode or find to be the flaw that bugs you the most, which is it? Please explain your reason(s) below.

 

Be advised that discussing the main flaw(s) does NOT mean he or she hates the episode. These topics merely direct its discussion in a different light.

Edited April 21, 2014 by Dark Qiviut

[M'aiq the Liar 5,804]

Thee fact that you can seemly trade pponys and their servvices..

 

AAn wwhile the rarijack stuff was nice, it did feel a litle forces at the begging..

[FlitterFlutter 1,583]

To be honest with everybody I thought this episode just felt odd. I have no idea why either its just weird that all I can say. I think it may of been Pinkie Pie being really bipolar in the beginning it kind of set the whole episode in an odd direction. 

[Megas 27,653]

I guess it's how imbalanced the segments were, there wasn't much for the Pinkie/Twilight and AJ/Rares segments that really gave them a chance to shine like RD/FS's segments, then again AJ/Rares' segment mainly consisted of unfunny bickering so it probably wasn't a total loss. Still I do think they could have done more with PP/Twilight's parts though. There wasn't enough Spike either

Edited April 21, 2014 by Randy Marsh

[GhostPony750 959]

Well, there was that time where RD sold Fluttershy. It's not that bad, mistakes can happen, accidentally selling your friend is a common thing anyway. But the problem was actually Twilight...

 

So RD asks to get Fluttershy back, and Twilight tells RD that in fact this was a fair trade. My brain glitched for a moment here... she just said that trading Fluttershy was fair? o_O For a moment, she didn't care at all about her friend? Wut?

[ghostfacekiller39 23,860]

Ooo, tough one.

 

I hated how they wasted so much potential with the Rarity/AJ thing...that had GREAT potential.

 

However, I found Pinkie's obliviousness to Twilight's feelings EXTREMELY irritating...maybe "obliviousness" isn't the right word, either, considering that Twilight up and told Pinkie to sit the heck down.

 

Oh, and how can I forget Rainbow's display of loyalty when it came down to her long-time friend or a possession she longed for? That was just the crème de la crème when it comes to ignorance!!! :okiedokielokie: Ughh.

 

There was so much I disliked about this episode...but wasting a potential storyline featuring my waifu will always be my biggest gripe, no matter how ignorant other characters surrounding her were written.

Edited April 21, 2014 by ghostfacekiller39

[DryGuy84 (Inactive) 927]

I stated this on my blog, but the practicality vs. sentimental value moral rubbed me the wrong way. My friend said Digi said something about it too, but I haven't seen his video yet. So that would probably be my pick (the Other option), but the Pinkie exposition dump was a little off, too.

[Sugar Cube 4,843]

I look forward to episodes like this in hopes that ALL of the Mane Six are well-represented and share the spotlight in a balanced way. The Best Night Ever remains one of my all-time favorite episodes for this very reason. Sadly, Trade Ya! was poorly balanced. The Twilight/Pinkie and Rarity/AJ segments felt very underplayed compared to the Rainbow Dash and Fluttershy subplot. I couldn't help but think "Okay, when is this going to transition to one of the other teams? Why is there so much of these two?" And at one point, it transitioned from RD/FS to Rarity/AJ for about a second or two before switching right back to Dash and Shy, much to my chagrin.

 

And unfortunately, Rarity and Applejack's story was extremely underwhelming. It started off really strong, but then all of a sudden they spend the rest of the episode arguing rather tirelessly about who should get what they want. Don't get me wrong, seeing the two of them try to outfriend each other is adorable stuff, but when it's overblown to an extent where that's literally all they do, it feels like a tacked on, wasted opportunity of a story. And as for Twilight and Pinkie, I can hardly recall anything they did because the entire plot between them was so diminished and forgettable.

 

I'll probably enjoy the episode more on rewatch, but the over-saturation of the Dash and Fluttershy story was a major downer.

Edited April 21, 2014 by Sugar Cube

[Yellow Diamond 7,569]

I look forward to episodes like this in hopes that ALL of the Mane Six are well-represented and share the spotlight in a balanced way. The Best Night Ever remains one of my all-time favorite episodes for this very reason. Sadly, Trade Ya! was poorly balanced. The Twilight/Pinkie and Rarity/AJ segments felt very underplayed compared to the Rainbow Dash and Fluttershy subplot. I couldn't help but think "Okay, when is this going to transition to one of the other teams? Why is there so much of these two?" And at one point, it transitioned from RD/FS to Rarity/AJ for about a second or two before switching right back to Dash and Shy, much to my chagrin.

 

And unfortunately, Rarity and Applejack's story was extremely underwhelming. It started off really strong, but then all of a sudden they spend the rest of the episode arguing rather tirelessly about who should get what they want. Don't get me wrong, seeing the two of them try to outfriend each other is adorable stuff, but when it's overblown to an extent where that's literally all they do, it feels like a tacked on, wasted opportunity of a story. And as for Twilight and Pinkie, I can hardly recall anything they did because the entire plot between them was so diminished and forgettable.

 

I'll probably enjoy the episode more on rewatch, but the over-saturation of the Dash and Fluttershy story was a major downer.

 

Perhaps the episode was originally conceived as a Dash and Fluttershy episode? After all, it does take place in Rainbow Falls -- a predominantly pegasus saturated environment. It might have expanded to encompass the whole of the Mane Six. And the more I think about the episode's narrative thread, I rather think this would have been the better episode for Fluttershy or Rainbow Dash to discover their rainbow item. (Really, anything would be better for Fluttershy than "It Ain't Easy Bein' Breezies".) A trade market is the perfect set-up, all things considered; and if the whole point of finding the items is to accentuate the Elements of Harmony fleetingly going against their natures, then Fluttershy sternly refusing to basically be bartered as trade bait could have linked into the Element of Kindness needing to be more than a pushover.

 

It's hard to argue with the underwhelming conflict between Rarity and Applejack. The conflict was nicely deployed but plagued by a lackluster buildup and resolution. Twilight and Pinkie had a dynamic that didn't quite fit together the way I would have hoped. In order to have them clash in any substantive manner, Pinkie had to become especially obnoxious. I really preferred Twilight and Rainbow's interactions in "Testing Testing 1, 2, 3" because Rainbow's jock antics are the classic antithesis to Twilight's earnest bookworm attitude. Pinkie, however, has suffered from really uneven characterization through this season, unfortunately.

 

And Spike was forgotten. Again. Why can't he have some decent time with Twilight other than when Equestria is in peril? I'm continually bothered by how poorly the writers have handled him over the past two seasons.

 

Despite my gripes, I still liked the episode. It was a cute slice-of-life story.

[Pastel 7,630]

Although it was a good episode, there're some big flaws.

The worst was the time repartition of the episode, it focused more on Fluttershy/Rainbow Dash team than the other ones. Spike's trade was shortened (he only got one scene ).

Also Fluttershy and Rainbow Dash was out of character...

 

So: Lack of balance between the teams.

[Ianpiersonjdavis 513]

Flanderization and making the characters stupid were really grating to me and prevented me from enjoying the episode in any way...

 

Princess Twilight says her hooves are tied because 'slavery' (even temporary) can technically be considered a fair trade, showing her "competency" when it actually involves royal business like settling disputes between citizens.

 

Pinkie Pie seems to have been for lack of a better term 'evil', hamming up the importance of Twilight's books to get the best value, vaguely threatening the filly that seemed to be genuinely interested, and straight up ignoring Twilight.

 

Rainbow Dash conveniantly forgetting that she knows Daring Do/A.K. Yearling personally and we've seen before that she was more than willing to give an autographed first edition copy to Dash at the end of the episode she first officially appears in, the fact that she doesn't even give half of a second to think before selling her best friend since fillyhood into slavery despite being the Element of Loyalty and teaching the Wonderbolts a lesson of the pitfalls such recklessness can cause TWICE.

 

Fluttershy seemingly having the reset button once again pressed on her assertiveness training and the lesson she learned from 'It Ain't Easy Being Breezies' about being TOO KIND which doesn't even make sense, when we know the events were officially canon from that episode since that was when she earned her key.

 

At first I thought the Applejack/Rarity thing was intriguing, but left me pretty disappointed.

[Anilewe 2,178]

Fluttershy's characterization. I had no problem with Rainbow, because it wasn't the first time, when she acted before thinking and she tried to fix her mistake as soon as she realized what happened. But Fluttershy... ugh. I already wrote what I think about it, so long story short: her reaction was completely unbelievable and she completely forgot about everything, what she learned in the past. Also, if she said "no" this conflict would be much more realistic and interesting. 

Edited April 21, 2014 by Anilewe

[Wind Chaser 4,768]

The exposition was pretty ham-fisted through the cold open but it leveled off afterwards. The first act was good but once we got about 9 minutes in, the Flanderization reared its ugly head.

 

Pinkie Pie was in rare "Filli Vaniili"-esque form. Twilight wanted to get rid of her books not only to clear out space but possibly also for the nobler intentions of passing on her learning. We'd think that would be a good reason to dump those books, right?

 

Then Pinkie struts on, scaring off all potential customers and basically telling Twilight to hoard the damn books because of nostalgia. Then Twilight pulls a 180 just like Cadance did in "Three's a Crowd". In short words, somepony f*cked up her day but it's all well and good because she learned of a concept that she didn't know before. This time, it's worse because Pinkie did not get punished or at least shut down like in "Filli Vanilli". That was the first of many plot conveniences in the episode, the majority of the rest are in the Rainbow Dash/Fluttershy subplot.

 

Rainbow Dash goes headlong into a bad deal, and even after the pony with the books (somepony please inform me on her name) turns it into a bad deal right in front of her face Rainbow doesn't give one semblance of a s***, f**k, or damn because she got the book and that's all that mattered. These are not the actions of one who has an unwavering loyalty to her friends as demonstrated in previous focus episodes.

 

Just as well, Spike was mentioned in the episode's premise but is a non-presence here. His presence would have done the episode good for some sarcastic, self-aware humor.

 

I'm not too keen on Sonneborn's writing as it adds to the general trend of characters being Flanderized to fit the plot in some of the weaker episodes this season. That seems to be a product of them shoving all of the mane characters into the majority of storylines, something that was done back in Season 1 but seems to have returned for some reason (I guess to justify the key episodes and calm the audience's fears that Twilight's ascension left them behind).

[Scootalove 10,689]

If I had a problem with this episode which I do, Pinkie Pie being very oblivious and vague with Twilight's feelings about not selling her books for the sole reason of her royalty role.

 

Plus, Rarity and AJ's subplot had a lot of potential, but instead we received the occasional bickering.

[PoisonClaw 8,164]

Unfortunately, I've said this already for several episodes this season and it gives me no pleasure in saying them again.

 

Two words: Pinkie. Pie.

 

Like in Filli Vanilli, Pinkie was woefully out of character here. While I will admit that her mentioning that she knows Twilight doesn't think she's better than anyone else was sweet, everything else about her in this episode was annoying. What happened to the Pinkie from Pinkie Pride who could be zany and off the wall yet still knew when to take things seriously? This is almost the same problem I had with the last episode as well, and by this point I'm starting to feel like a broken record.

 

Another thing I'd like to mention; I've heard a lot of people give flack on Rainbow's part for "selling Fluttershy into slavery"...yet no one seems to remember it was the Mare who owned the book's idea in the first place! She was the one willing to have a total stranger completely uproot her life just so she didn't have to spend extra on an obedience trainer. For all she knew, Fluttershy had family back home she needed to care for, yet in her mind having Fluttershy accompany her for an unknown amount of time was a completely reasonable idea! I'm not saying Dash doesn't share in the fault here for not paying attention, but she's not completely to blame in this case.   

[MLPFanatic34 3,234]

Pinkie Pie acting the way she did in the episode, not having any regards for Twilight's feelings or who Twilight is minus her princess status, those books didn't make Twilight a princess, those books shaped who Twilight is and the lessons she's learned. Sorry Pinkie but you were quite rude.

[Dark Qiviut 22,420]

Part of what changed the episode from meh to plain bad was the characterization. Not simply the stupidity of the characters, but how poorly characterized they were in general.

1. Twilight had pretty bad characterization herself. When Pinkie was scaring the filly, she should've scolded her for that attitude. Then at the end, she was convinced that the Fluttershy/1st edition cover was a fair trade. Anyone with an ounce of common sense would've immediately called this trade off. In order to progress the suspense, her IQ had to be dialed back (which has been a problem this season, the series in general, and a major speculation in response to the DEM in IAEBB).
2. Rainbow Dash may have flaws, but there's a time and point where instead of explaining how flawed a character is in the form of a fallacy, it's time to realize how poorly characterized a character was. Dash is one of those characters. Just because she's desperate for the first-edition book doesn't mean she'll willingly trade part of her family! Brashness and naivety don't equal stupidity! Her disastrous characterization in Act 3 pushes her two steps back after a brilliant performance in TT123 and is a perfect reminder of her inconsistency thus far. What Dash did was basically sell Fluttershy. She committed slavery! Simply to force the audience to laugh. Writing characters OOC simply to force comedy is bad-quality humor.
   
   Not to mention her agreement to slave-trade Fluttershy for the book does two things: destroys any bit of subtlety in the Chekhov's Gun and adds in an unnecessary portion of the conflict.
3. Fluttershy's character growth post-RF was nullified. After Rainbow Falls, she'd been improving, mainly in her starring roles. (Contrary to what some here assume, Fluttershy's conflicts vary considerably. Filli Vanilli and IAEBB are internal and external, respectively; FV is about FS's stage fright preventing her from publicizing a personal hobby, IAEBB being forced to kick out the breezies because they were in much more danger in FS's world. Here, her shyness is bastardized for laughs and to foreshadow the slave trade. It's as if her characterization was reverted back to square one.
   
   And in case you're wondering, Fluttershy was indeed traded into "indentured servitude." In layman's terms, a temporary form of slavery. Here's what the DD trader said:
   
   

   Daring Do Collector: If she comes and stays with us in Manehattan until it's trained!

   Emphasis mine.
   
   For God's sake, can Fluttershy be given more consistent characterization? As Fluttershy's my most favorite character, seeing her flanderized to such a degree with ZERO quality control should embarrass DHX.

4. Pinkie Pie really teetered that line; unlike PAP, she definitely crossed it by chasing the poor filly away, reminding the audience of her worst appearance, Filli Vanilli. Because of the way she was written, she basically convinced Twilight to continue hoarding her books.

5. Rarity and Applejack suffered the same issue here as did Simple Ways: out-of-character stupidity. Only this time, both were affected.

Edited April 22, 2014 by Dark Qiviut

[Sir Wulfington 276]

 

I'm not too keen on Sonneborn's writing as it adds to the general trend of characters being Flanderized to fit the plot in some of the weaker episodes this season. That seems to be a product of them shoving all of the mane characters into the majority of storylines, something that was done back in Season 1 but seems to have returned for some reason (I guess to justify the key episodes and calm the audience's fears that Twilight's ascension left them behind).

 

I've figured it's because they're trying to pander to the fans complaining that their favorite pony isn't getting enough spotlight, so they just shove all 6 of them into so many episodes lately thinking that's the perfect solution.....it's not.

 

As for this episode, I'm gonna watch it today than give my opinion, tho I'm put off, like I have most episodes lately, by the negative opinions surrounding it. All but one episode as of and including Simple Ways has gotten bad reviews, and the four of those I have watched (Simple Ways, Filli Vanilli, Maud Pie, and For Whom The Sweetie Belle Tolls) have been mediocre in my opinion (and the last one of those four was the one with positive reception), so ya. I'm not looking forward to this latest one......

 

It's pretty bad when I've gotten to the point where I'm utterly lacking in enthusiasm for new episodes.

 

edit: I also watched Testing Testing, 1 2 3 and didn't much care for it as well. I think the fact that I forgot about it's very existence shortly after watching it says a lot right there.

Edited April 24, 2014 by Sir Wulfington

[Azrael the alicorn 72]

 

Part of what changed the episode from meh to plain bad was the characterization. Not simply the stupidity of the characters, but how poorly characterized they were in general.

1. Twilight had pretty bad characterization herself. When Pinkie was scaring the filly, she should've scolded her for that attitude. Then at the end, she was convinced that the Fluttershy/1st edition cover was a fair trade. Anyone with an ounce of common sense would've immediately called this trade off. In order to progress the suspense, her IQ had to be dialed back (which has been a problem this season, the series in general, and a major speculation in response to the DEM in IAEBB).
2. Rainbow Dash may have flaws, but there's a time and point where instead of explaining how flawed a character is in the form of a fallacy, it's time to realize how poorly characterized a character was. Dash is one of those characters. Just because she's desperate for the first-edition book doesn't mean she'll willingly trade part of her family! Brashness and naivety don't equal stupidity! Her disastrous characterization in Act 3 pushes her two steps back after a brilliant performance in TT123 and is a perfect reminder of her inconsistency thus far. What Dash did was basically sell Fluttershy. She committed slavery! Simply to force the audience to laugh. Writing characters OOC simply to force comedy is bad-quality humor.

    

   Not to mention her agreement to slave-trade Fluttershy for the book does two things: destroys any bit of subtlety in the Chekhov's Gun and adds in an unnecessary portion of the conflict.

3. Fluttershy's character growth post-RF was nullified. After Rainbow Falls, she'd been improving, mainly in her starring roles. (Contrary to what some here assume, Fluttershy's conflicts vary considerably. Filli Vanilli and IAEBB are internal and external, respectively; FV is about FS's stage fright preventing her from publicizing a personal hobby, IAEBB being forced to kick out the breezies because they were in much more danger in FS's world. Here, her shyness is bastardized for laughs and to foreshadow the slave trade. It's as if her characterization was reverted back to square one.

    

   And in case you're wondering, Fluttershy was indeed traded into "indentured servitude." In layman's terms, a temporary form of slavery. Here's what the DD trader said:

    

   Emphasis mine.

    

   For God's sake, can Fluttershy be given more consistent characterization? As Fluttershy's my most favorite character, seeing her flanderized to such a degree with ZERO quality control should embarrass DHX.

4. Pinkie Pie really teetered that line; unlike PAP, she definitely crossed it by chasing the poor filly away, reminding the audience of her worst appearance, Filli Vanilli. Because of the way she was written, she basically convinced Twilight to continue hoarding her books.

5. Rarity and Applejack suffered the same issue here as did Simple Ways: out-of-character stupidity. Only this time, both were affected.

 

What is DEM and IAEBB? For the rest, as alway, i have to agree with you.

[Red Cedar 1,408]

For me, it was Dash and Fluttershy as well. Dash for basically volunteering Fluttershy to train the beast (I won't quite go so far as to say she was sold into slavery... eep!) and Fluttershy for not speaking up and asking if she got a say in any of it, whether it meant Dash got her book or not.

 

Everything else about the episode I thought was pretty good. Pinkie having her over-the-top sales pitches finally go too far over the top and everyone leaving was quite funny, and Applejack and Rarity fighting like an old married couple was cute, too.

Edited April 22, 2014 by Red Cedar

[PrymeStriker 408]

My only complaint is that Rainbow Dash went through with the deal and only realized after that she sold Fluttershy to the trader. Even though I hate Rainbow Dash, that was ridiculous and out of character. The rest of the episode was fantastic, though. 

[Sir Wulfington 276]

Well, it's entertaining so far, kinda. Tho, I'm twelve minutes in and Fluttershy is back to being a doormat, as if Putting Your Hoof Down didn't happen. You know, writers of MLP:FIM, if you don't want a character to develop, don't make episodes where they do, or else it's really really jarring.

[Nerdy Luigi 2,065]

Well, It's pacing primarily. It felt off. It was quite confusing. Plus, most every mane six character was out of character. Mostly Pinkie Pie.

 

But there was one undeniably amazing bit. The moral, or whatever you'd like to call it. It really was spot on with why I like the show's concepts.

[Sir Wulfington 276]

Well, that was....something. Apparently Fluttershy would've been legally forced to stay with that trader until the Orthos was fully trained....seriously? She couldn't have just said no and left? Would she have been arrested if she refused? Or was it that RD would have been forced to give back the book if Fluttershy wouldn't keep her end of the deal? And she was willing to do it for RD? I....guess the latter theory is fine.....

 

Other than that and Fluttershy reduced to a doormat again, I don't get Twilight's reason for keeping her old books. She admits that they hold no use to her, but she's gonna keep them anyway out of nostalgia value.....even tho she said earlier in the episode that she was running out of space in her library.....ya I don't agree with that outcome. It seems selfish to hold onto something just because of sentimental value when someone else who may actually want it to make use of it could have it. I guess she could keep them in some box off the shelves if she runs out of room, tho.

 

Anyway, I didn't notice any holes other than Fluttershy's OOC, but I'll let that one slide, not really show-ruining, just annoying as hell that they can't keep her consistent. So, it was.....watchable. And so the trend of "meh" season 4 episodes continues. Yay.....

Edited April 24, 2014 by Sir Wulfington

[Azureth 687]

Well, that was....something. Apparently Fluttershy would've been legally forced to stay with that trader until the Orthos was fully trained....seriously? She couldn't have just said no and left? Would she have been arrested if she refused? Or was it that RD would have been forced to give back the book if Fluttershy wouldn't keep her end of the deal? And she was willing to do it for RD? I....guess the latter theory is fine.....

 

Other than that and Fluttershy reduced to a doormat again, I don't get Twilight's reason for keeping her old books. She admits that they hold no use to her, but she's gonna keep them anyway out of nostalgia value.....even tho she said earlier in the episode that she was running out of space in her library.....ya I don't agree with that outcome. It seems selfish to hold onto something just because of sentimental value when someone else who may actually want it to make use of it could have it. I guess she could keep them in some box off the shelves if she runs out of room, tho.

 

Anyway, I didn't notice any holes other than Fluttershy's OOC, but I'll let that one slide, not really show-ruining, just annoying as hell that they can't keep her consistent. So, it was.....watchable. And so the trend of "meh" season 4 episodes continues. Yay.....

I agree with what you said in another post about having all of the Mane Six in so many episodes. There is only 22 minutes, so to me with so many of S4 episodes it often feels as if the story gets cut in many places just for the sake of showing them all when really IMO the main focus of a story should just be one or two pony's in the spot light, MAX! With others only appearing more for cameos if that makes any sense. If they had a full 44 minutes per episode I could easily see them being able to use them all, but 22 minutes is way to short. While I do like many of the S4 episodes a good chunk of the time while watching one that has them all I just think "Why not just focus on aspect x of this part of the story and flesh it out rather than shoe-horn the other mane 6?".

 

Seriously, had this JUST been a RD/FS episode I think it could have been fleshed out much better.