Why did Discord betray the Mane 6?

[Zekromic 1,054]

Well, his only friend was Flutty, but it was overly evident that he had alot of work for becoming a true friend, and he didn't see the value of friendship. Yes, he showed remorse after seeing Flutty cry, but he needed a good magic draining to realize how feels to loose a friend, as such, he was the one who was Twily's key giver

[M'aiq the Liar 5,804]

Then why did they go through the whole "Discord, you're my friend!", and Discord being all sad and whatever having to learn the same lesson of friendship again? Why wouldn't he have gone "Oh, by the way, this was the plan the entire time"? That's entering headcannon territory, which is fine, but I still don't buy it.

Because the whole "if they knew about the plan, then Tirek could become informed of it" thing. And for the most part, this entire thread is headcannon lol.

[wolfheartmoon 107]

posting in the wrong place sorry

Edited May 11, 2014 by wolfheartmoon

[Kel_Grym 1,917]

http://boards.4chan.org/mlp/thread/17694690/implying-discord-actually-joined-up-with-tirek

I know it is 4chan, but it does make some sense. Tirak would have taken weeks to get enough power to directly challenge the Alicorns, all the while leaving Equestria without weather or food control. The disasters that could have set in would have killed more than Tireks very short, almost 3 day "rule" and uprising. Discord also bookmarked the pages were Twilight could come to the conclusion about the keys, and Discord just so happened to give twilight her key.

 

That wink at the end was him acknowledging that everything wen according to plan.

 

Interesting! So in here we have Celestia playing like God, saying unto Lucifer/Discord, "Go and start some shit that looks bad, but in the end is for the greater good," and Discord saying, "Hmm...sounds like fun. I'm on board with this."

 

 

 

Then why did they go through the whole "Discord, you're my friend!", and Discord being all sad and whatever having to learn the same lesson of friendship again? Why wouldn't he have gone "Oh, by the way, this was the plan the entire time"? That's entering headcannon territory, which is fine, but I still don't buy it.

 

*shrugs* Method Acting?

[Guest90210 3,568]

Because the whole "if they knew about the plan, then Tirek could become informed of it" thing. And for the most part, this entire thread is headcannon lol.

 

I'm talking about after the fact. Tirek was imprisoned again, yet Discord still didn't reveal any sort of master plan

[M'aiq the Liar 5,804]

I'm talking about after the fact. Tirek was imprisoned again, yet Discord still didn't reveal any sort of master plan

He is the master of Chaos. Not revealing his plan may be part of his plan.

[Frith is Magick 1,471]

Discord betrayed the Mane 6, but in a way, they betrayed him first. They wanted to reform him through friendship, but all they ever did was push him away, treat him rudely, as if he was a villain, turning their backs on their own lessons. Fluttershy was the only one who extended a hand of friendship, the only one who ever held a relationship with Discord, and we see that Discord was sorry towards Fluttershy, she was in his thoughts, not the others. The 6 bound Discord, trying to limit his freedom, offering nothing but a few piss-poor words instead of actual friendship.

 

Tirek took advantage of Discord's chaotic nature, reminding him of the freedom he once had, as well as the old friend he had in Tirek. Tirek offered him freedom and true friendship, a relationship where they were equals. Discord did not turn his back on friendship, he was actually embracing it, or so he thought. Notice that his "chaos" was not the chaos of old. Granted, he did capture Ponies for Tirek, but beyond that he did not create a world of insanity as before, instead enjoying a few chuckles. In truth, I was sick and tired of seeing the way the 6 treated Discord after supposedly using friendship to reform him and his legitimate efforts to make it work. Fluttershy didn't deserve it, but for the rest of them, it was overdue. 

Edited May 11, 2014 by Frith is Magick

[JH24 385]

@ Frith is Magick

 

I didn't saw your post before I posted mine. You've worded it very well, better than I ever could. Great post.

 

To me, it seemed Discord's only true friend before this whole fiasco was Fluttershy. None of the other Mane Six truly did try and make an effort to befriend him, and it seems like Fluttershy was the only one who saw him on a daily basis. So because of this, he felt it was better to have a friend with power then one who couldn't give anything but friendship. Plus, he's the god of chaos, so the fact that he was practically born to spread chaos has to have some bit of a factor in this.

 

 

Very well said. I feel the same way. Except for fluttershy and to some extend Twilight, the others remained "hostile" to him and their relation never got anywhere. (They seemed more hostile in this special than earlier in the season) Discord usually acts in his own way and enjoys "trolling" other ponies but I wouldn't be suprised if he made some mental notes during this. (Like Rarity/Applejack/Rainbow Dash wanting to turn him into stone again, their sarcastic remarks, Rainbow Dash not wanting to take care of him while "sick", etc)

 

 

Discord values his friendship with Fluttershy but still didn't understand the real value of having a true friend. Inside, like you said, he's still the Spirit/Lord of Chaos, and because of self-preservation and Fluttershy he restrained himself. But (like you also said) went back to his original nature with Tirek, who offered him power and the promise of not only having a loyal friend, but also having a loyal friend with real power.

 

 

I really liked how they gave Discord character development in this finale, and that he finally understands the true meaning of friendship, making a big step forward in his journey of being reformed. It painfully showed that the Mane 6 (except Fluttershy) could have put more effort in befriending Discord, leaving it almost entirely to Fluttershy.

 

One of the things I like the most is that in the end Twilight did something that was a real game-changer for Discord. She might also have realized the Mane 6 are to blame as well (except again for Fluttershy) for Discord betraying them, and that from this point on, she was going to make up for it.

 

 

He finally learned how Twilight truly saw him as a friend and what it means to be a real friend, and that in the end, he has become part of the Mane 6 and no longer an outsider viewed with hostility. It was the first time we saw ponies like Rarity/Applejack/Rainbow Dash returning a "group hug" with Discord. 

 

 

And in a way, the Mane 6 have learned a lesson as well. It's kind of ironic that it required Discord betraying them to learn this lesson and to reach this new point in their relationship with him.

Edited May 11, 2014 by JH24

[Malinter 3,064]

Theres also the fact that Discord sensed the princesses transfer power to Twilight and didn't mention this to Tirek, he also didn't even make Tirek aware their was a 4thh alicorn til he saw the window.

[XxConfusedUnicornxX 834]

Well just like what Discord said in the show, he thought that by agreeing with Tirek, he could rule Equestria and cause chaos once more. He probably thought that power is better than friendship because since you have power, you can have everything. Friendship is just friends, and all sweet moments. Nothing special. So yeah... But it was wrong for him to do. Friendship is ALWAYS better than power.

[scienceandponies 2]

Ever since his rather weak "reformation" in season 3, I've been loving Discords ambiguously villainous portrayal this season.  I was just waiting for his betrayal ever since the events of the premier (entirely Discord's fault) oh so conveniently ended with the Elements of Harmony out of the picture.  What really doesn't sit well with me though, is the fact that Discord, a character portrayed to be a magnificent bastard and master manipulateor of the highest caliber, who always seems to see the big picture and play a ver long game (thunder seeds plan for example), couldn't see the most obvious betrayal in the world coming. 

I think I have to jump onto the idea that he was at least partially trying to set up a situation in which Twilight gets her key, given how hard he was pushing hints at Twilight in the beginning, and the information he kept from Tirek.   Not that he planned it all from the very start, but I see Discord as the kind of character who would play all the angles. Instead of just dragging in Tirek on the spot, join up and maybe actually plunge Equestria back into chaos if Tirek actually follows through on his promises, arrange for Twilight to get her key to the box if not.  Notice he only spills all the information on Twilight and her friends after he has the medallion which he can gift to Twilight as a key.

The only real confusing bit is Discord's emotional responses, which are all over the map. Gleefully destructive, his general sly "I've got all the answers" attitude, and genuinely remorseful at times.  Either he's really good at acting mopey and conflicted (and later genuinely sorry after the fact) or he's not even aware of what he's doing.  His mind is probably a tangled mess.  Given his chaotic nature, I wouldn't be surprised if he's constantly running a dozen different long term schemes at cross purposes to each other without even being being conscious of most of them.

[yeet 2,027]

It's just, when he captured the mane 6, he showed no guilt or regret whatsoever. It was as if he didn't care for the mane 6 at all.

He did, for a second or two he did look like he was feeling guilty about it.

[Pastel 7,630]

Because he thought Rarity was best pony, but it turned out, Rarity was best pony, and he couldn't live with his sins.

:okiedokielokie:

Oh wait...

 

 

I honestly thought that the original reformation process was a little weak. Now, though, I'm sure he's truly reformed.

I'm pretty sure that he just thought Tirek was making a good deal. I mean, he does like ruling Equestria.

 

This. He still wasn't sure that "Friendship is Magic", so Tirek could easily manipulate him.

[wolfheartmoon 107]

Theres also the fact that Discord sensed the princesses transfer power to Twilight and didn't mention this to Tirek, he also didn't even make Tirek aware their was a 4thh alicorn til he saw the window.

I don't think Discord actually knew what happened, he just sensed some major disturbance/chaotic happening. something that "shouldn't" have been able to happen.

[Jeric 46,850]

Discord = Humanity = most complex character on the show.

 

It's also reminiscent of Classical Heroric archetypes that were flawed vs the modern interpretation of heroic.

 

Thirdly, he may also be interpreted as an addiction allegory. Twilight's reaction is similar to a family member giving a recovering alchaholic a second chance after a dramatic slip.

 

Finally, flowers always work wonders

[Asternose 30]

Before this episode, Discord hadn't quite convinced me (or the other mane six ponies, minus Fluttershy) that he was reformed. I imagine he still had that temptation to cause chaos...But after this episode, I think Discord has shown a lot of development. I don't think it was OOC at all

[TheSupremeLeaderOfChaos 1,206]

 

I just noticed this while reading the Episode Followup on EQD, but LOOK! In the background, the stain glass window to the right of Discord: He changed it just like he changed the others. He did the puppeteer thing, seemingly to the Mane 6. But look closer! Fluttershy's not on it! More proof that he felt bad about what he did!

[TwilightDreamer 69]

The original reformation in Keep Calm and Flutter on was too weak and the Mane 6, specifically Fluttershy, didn't even try hard enough to have him change his ways and they still let him be his old self but in a restrained level.

[Singe 2,111]

Discord's reform to change wasn't a decision of his free will. Fluttershy in her approach manipulated him to change. It's the same overall of changing someone from Evil to Good, Good to Evil, Law to Chaos, or Chaos to Law. The objective is to bring that character on the other side over to their side for their benefit/purpose.

Edited May 14, 2014 by Singe

[Flutter's lover <3 8,205]

He betrayed Fluttershy, and the mane 6 (but mostly Fluttershy, since they're pretty close friends) because there was always that tidbit of temptation and lust for power. He also only knew the basics of friendship. He really doesn't fully understand the concept of what friendship truly is. He didn't really show any remorse when he caged the mane 6 up. I actually cried during that scene with Fluttershy.But after Tirek drained them all of their magic, you could see Discord's reaction, when he turned away for a split second, that he had a slight bit of remorse for doing what he did.  After Tirek, betrayed him, he regretted what he had done and realised just how important Fluttershy's and the rest of the mane 6's friendship really meant to him. When they were in their bubbles, Discord actually apologized to Fluttershy, and she accepted it.  I'd like to believe that he is truly reformed now and that he understands a little bit more of what friendship really means. I also  hope he treats Fluttershy (and the mane 6) a little better in the future. No one hurts my waifu and gets away with it. But Discord apologized to her anyways,so we're all good. For now. 

Edited May 14, 2014 by :Flutterdash:

[DND 2,355]

Discord is not naive, and Discord was not necessarily out of character from what we've and I've seen. I'd just say a master of chaos like him isn't very familiar with friendship and or was not to the extent Twilight and co. were. He fell to manipulation because he did not understand the fundamentals and impact friendship had.

[yeet 2,027]

I also  hope he treats Fluttershy (and the mane 6) a little better in the future. No one hurts my waifu and gets away with it. But Discord apologized to her anyways,so we're all good. For now. 

in season five he is gonna take her on a tea party. If that doesn't happen, then I'm sure he will do something else.

[They call me Loyalty 1,948]

Because of plot I believe. there's some huge flaws all over it.
Discord was supposed to be the master puppeter on scene. I can't get it quite yet, you know, the reason why Tirek was able to convince Discord so easely, being Discord as chaotic as he's.

Usually, chaotic beings doesn't even trust on themselves, so why did he let himself  deceive, if he wasn't already all that well reformed? It wasn't that he was poorly reformed, right? That would mean, he shouldn't have trust on anybody, but he did trust Tirek, just like an innocent pony.
There's too many layers on chaotic characters, it's way more complex than it looks like, because they're many minds within the same subject, and they keep switching all the time. Discord was dumbed down, just like many other character along the series. The main reason, plot, usually bad ones.

It was a bland season finale, overall. Tirek himself was bland as tartarus, just another poorly designed enemy, like Sombra was on "The Crystal empire"

Was it the same writer with Sombra? 'cause it has the same flaws. I have yet to check it out.

[Scootadress 361]

Well..I thought perhaps Discord's real plan was to lead him on. In Return of Harmony we notice Discord's ability to persuade or perhaps screw around with ponies. He knew Tirek's power, but may be he tried humor him and bait him. Though....he got tricked..

[Sparkshower 103]

I have two possible theories

! this is with prior knowledge like the episode where he was "sick" discord had been trying to invent ways in wich twilight would get her key and with the deadline right in fron of him he had no choice but to BE the reason she got her key

2 he really did believe that tirek was offering him something better because he had not known enough about friendship even then