Do animals go to heaven?

[Theshadowmaster235 70]

Okay, well I'm not going to try to start anything, but it might interest you to look into the Biblical idea of The Fruits of the Spirit. Seriously, this isn't an insult, but you admitted to being hate filled yourself and I just think it's worth pointing out that that contradicts the idea of what following Jesus is supposed to do to you spiritually. I'm not going to sit here and prech to you, it's just a Christian idea I think you'd want to look at if you are a Christian yourself. Just saying, no insults being thrown at you.

I'm not trying to say you're not a real Christian or anything, it's just more of a failed promise I see as far as the belief system goes.There is evidence for it and we can see evolution accuring in nature. I'd assume you just have a faulty view of it if you literally refuse to believe it like that. Also, The Bible says we come from dirt, is apes somehow less plausible?Well, I would avoid saying "go to Hell" altoghether if you believe in it and don't mean that then. Especially in religious debates and about someone who's dead.You mean the people who have determined that there's enough factual evidence for it that it should be taught to people? Why? You wouldn't say they're shoving gravity down you throat.

I again believe you don't actually understand evolution if you hate it that much. I know lots of Christians who accept evolution and have never even heard of an atheist denying evolution until now. Please just try to study it unbiasedly and see what you think, that's all I'd ask.I wouldn't say that, I think both sides expressing themselves is important, but I think I have just as much right to counter your opinions with mine, that's kind of necessary for any of us to get closer to finding the truth, isn't it?

Edit: Also, I guess a general religious discussion is a little off topic, isn't it? Sorry about that, we can take this to another thread if you want.

Well as for my hatred it's something I'm working on and as for Darwin I've personally always hated him and I do agree this has gone off topic.

[John 793]

She told me that according to the Bible, it said animals didn't go to heaven because humans are superior to them and they don't have a soul. 

 

What a harsh way to word her thought.

 

The soul (in Catholicism) is something individual to humans.  It's basically our inner essence which transcends our minds and bodies, and helps to make us who we are.  The soul is said to be specifically given to humans by G-d upon conception.  G-d made mans soul in his likeness, and now our evolved and intelligent minds and bodies are able to house it.  The soul is what makes us like G-d, and thus doing things that are selfless, caring, kind and giving strengthen it.  On the contrary, doing things which are evil, self-centered, rash and carnal are said to blacken the soul, as they make us more like the animal (our bodies) and less like G-d.

 

Animals are not believed to be entirely valueless, however.  Saint Francis recognized that animals too have their own life essence.  There's some interesting stories about him.  I think one time he brought a wolf into church with him and everyone freaked out.   O.o  Our scriptures do not mention what happens to animals after death, but your friend assuming they go nowhere has no true Catholic basis.

I actually am very hate filled and as for your evidence that evolution is real well I've been forced to learn about evolution and I refuse to believe that humans came from a damn ape there is not enough proof in the world that can make me believe in evolution and I don't think that everyone who disagrees with me should be tortured if I thought that I would think almost half of the people on earth should be tortured. I can get along with most atheists I even have a friend who was one( I say was because he is now Christian and even when he was atheist he still despised the very thought of evolution ) but the ones who try to push evolution and other things they believe in down my throat I just can't stand and before you even say it I wasn't trying to force my beliefs down your throat I was only stating my opinions.

 

Humans did evolve.  I'm guessing you were raised a Biblically literalist Christian from a protestant sect.  I don't know why everyone freaks out about evolution being an objective fact.

Edited May 30, 2014 by John

[Steel Accord 6,660]

I believe they do, for reasons similar to those you pointed out. I think what you're friend was getting at, is that animals have no concept of morality or good and evil. Your counterpoint was that just because we know what those things are, doesn't mean we are more moral than them by default.

 

I believe animals do have souls, I believe anything that's intelligent has a soul. If a strong, "true" A.G.I. were to be created, that new being would have a soul just like you and I.

 

Animals might actually have it easier, because they haven't eaten the metaphorical fruit of knowledge, which I always interpret as us evolving sentience, they get something of a free pass into heaven. They are blameless for the faults of themselves and what happens to them in life. So without sin, they go right to heaven upon death.

 

Our knowledge is a double edged sword though. Yes, we are vulnerable to temptation and can knowingly commit wrong, but we also can aspire to greatness now that we have the power of choice.

[Theshadowmaster235 70]

What a harsh way to word her thought.

 

The soul (in Catholicism) is something individual to humans.  It's basically our inner essence which transcends our minds and bodies, and helps to make us who we are.  The soul is said to be specifically given to humans by G-d upon conception.  G-d made mans soul in his likeness, and now our evolved and intelligent minds and bodies are able to house it.  The soul is what makes us like G-d, and thus doing things that are selfless, caring, kind and giving strengthen it.  On the contrary, doing things which are evil, self-centered, rash and carnal are said to blacken the soul, as they make us more like the animal (our bodies) and less like G-d.

 

Animals are not believed to be entirely valueless, however.  Saint Francis recognized that animals too have their own life essence.  There's some interesting stories about him.  I think one time he brought a wolf into church with him and everyone freaked out.   O.o  Our scriptures do not mention what happens to animals after death, but your friend assuming they go nowhere has no true Catholic basis.

 

 

Humans did evolve.  I'm guessing you were raised a Biblically literalist Christian from a protestant sect.  I don't know why everyone freaks out about evolution being an objective fact.

As I've said before nothing in this world could make me believe in evolution and yes I am Christian if you were trying to insult me it didn't work.

[John 793]

As I've said before nothing in this world could make me believe in evolution and yes I am Christian if you were trying to insult me it didn't work.

 

I was not trying to insult you.

 

1.)  The bible isn't meant to be taken 100% literally.  In fact, sitting down and meditating over the true meaning of its many passages shows a deeper respect for it than just taking what it says literally.

 

1.)  The bible isn't the only well from which we can draw spiritual knowledge.  O.o  You're missing a lot of scripture.

Animals might actually have it easier, because they haven't eaten the metaphorical fruit of knowledge, which I always interpret as us evolving sentience, they get something of a free pass into heaven. They are blameless for the faults of themselves and what happens to them in life. So without sin, they go right to heaven upon death.

 

Haha I think we would get along well.

Edited May 30, 2014 by John

[Sigma 768]

Although I'm an atheist, I'm still going to take part in this thread because it sounds like an interesting concept.

 

Keep in mind that most smaller animals have much shorter lifespans and reproduce more rapidly, meaning they have shorter generations.

 

Let's take flies for example. They all die in about a week, and yet they manage to be everywhere. You simply cannot get rid of them.

 

I believe that if all living things went to heaven, then heaven would be over ran by insects.

 

One possible solution is to make it where heaven is infinite in size (it would have to be in order to support a population that does nothing except increase) so the insects can spread out (and they're going to, assuming that Ecology and density-dependent living factors still apply in heaven; which it doesn't, unless you want to say that it's possible to die in heaven). Of course, mammals would spread out too, but at a much slower rate since they have longer generations and would come in to heaven at a much slower rate.

 

Or you can just make separate heavens for each species, which would solve the problem but create another problem concerning biodiversity (which, again, probably wouldn't matter since you can't die in heaven). I wouldn't know, I'm not god. Heck, the inability to die is tearing apart the foundations of Biology as we know it, so why not just roll with it?

Edited June 5, 2014 by Asterisk Propernoun

[Sunshower Raindrops 3,227]

I personally believe in the multiple universe theory, and since of that that makes all religion, and things true.

[Sigma 768]

I actually am very hate filled and as for your evidence that evolution is real well I've been forced to learn about evolution and I refuse to believe that humans came from a damn ape there is not enough proof in the world that can make me believe in evolution and I don't think that everyone who disagrees with me should be tortured if I thought that I would think almost half of the people on earth should be tortured. I can get along with most atheists I even have a friend who was one( I say was because he is now Christian and even when he was atheist he still despised the very thought of evolution ) but the ones who try to push evolution and other things they believe in down my throat I just can't stand and before you even say it I wasn't trying to force my beliefs down your throat I was only stating my opinions.

 

First off, Charles Darwin didn't say we came from 'a damn ape'. He said humans and primates likely came from a common ancestor.

 

Second, if you believe there isn't any proof of evolution, then read about Darwin's Finches. Ignoring fossil records and vestigial organs is one thing, but it's hard to deny evolution when It's staring at you right in the face.

 

Also, if you feel the need to turn this confrontation into a full-fledged argument debate, then please make a separate thread about it in the debate section of the forum. This isn't the place to discuss it.

[Theshadowmaster235 70]

First off, Charles Darwin didn't say we came from 'a damn ape'. He said humans and primates likely came from a common ancestor.

 

Second, if you believe there isn't any proof of evolution, then read about Darwin's Finches. Ignoring fossil records and vestigial organs is one thing, but it's hard to deny evolution when It's staring at you right in the face.

 

Also, if you feel the need to turn this confrontation into a full-fledged argument debate, then please make a separate thread about it in the debate section of the forum. This isn't the place to discuss it.

I don't care there will never be enough proof for me to believe in evolution and if you're trying to turn me against my faith it won't work, I'm done talking about this I already got into an argument with one person.

[Sigma 768]

I don't care there will never be enough proof for me to believe in evolution and if you're trying to turn me against my faith it won't work, I'm done talking about this I already got into an argument with one person.

 

I don't argue, I debate. Also, evolution doesn't have to interfere with your religion. The only factors that's stopping the two from being compatible are stubborn Christians and Atheists who only want to destroy the other.

[Theshadowmaster235 70]

I don't argue, I debate. Also, evolution doesn't have to interfere with your religion. The only factors that's stopping the two from being compatible are stubborn Christians and Atheists who only want to destroy the other.

I have actually read some of what Darwin said and I myself just don't agree with what he says but everyone is entitled to their own opinion.

[mlpsculptor 9]

I sure hope they go to heaven! I would love to see my lil dog jack again (he got hit by a car the summer before my senior year)

 

I'm catholic, but I think we shouldn't take every single line from the bible as concrete law. And most of the time it's interpreted incorrectly taken out of context. You definitely made some good points. Animals do have the capability to love! Also, what about the babies that die before they even reach their second birthday? They have no understanding of God at that age, and yet we believe they go to heaven as well.

 

Honestly I'm not sure of where I side on the subject.

[Adachi 772]

I certainly can deny it, with every bit as much authority as you can claim all living beings do have souls. It's not exactly cut and dried, and there's really no way to know for sure one way or another. There's not exactly a medical procedure to test for a soul. I'm just not convinced that animals have souls.

The way I see it, the soul floats a little above our heads, and the brain is simply a tool for controlling our Earthly vehicles. That said, it seems to make sense that animals are the same way. The brain is not their life, it is simply a means for the soul to control the body. The body by itself is meaningless unless it gets that first spark of life.

[KoGy 187]

It really depends on what religious ideas we are talking about.

In Abrahamic religions animals don't know right from wrong so they can't be hell bound, because they are sinless.

[Henny Penny Benny 936]

The way I see it, the soul floats a little above our heads, and the brain is simply a tool for controlling our Earthly vehicles. That said, it seems to make sense that animals are the same way. The brain is not their life, it is simply a means for the soul to control the body. The body by itself is meaningless unless it gets that first spark of life.

 

Yes, that's the way you see it. But it's not really possible to know for certain. So it's all pretty much speculation and guesswork in the end.

[Adachi 772]

Yes, that's the way you see it. But it's not really possible to know for certain. So it's all pretty much speculation and guesswork in the end.

But we do know for certain that once someone dies, they cannot be brought back (unless they died just recently, and doctors manage to bring them back, but it only works if it's not their time to go yet). Something has to be behind the brain that's behind the control of our bodies. Because once we're gone, it's almost impossible to bring us back. I've read a story where someone had a NDE, and the doctors couldn't get any response out of him. He was met by a relative who told him that it's not his time yet, so he regretfully started walking back through the tunnel, and right when he reached the end, his body then suddenly started showing vital signs when the doctors were about to give up.

[Henny Penny Benny 936]

But we do know for certain that once someone dies, they cannot be brought back (unless they died just recently, and doctors manage to bring them back, but it only works if it's not their time to go yet). Something has to be behind the brain that's behind the control of our bodies. Because once we're gone, it's almost impossible to bring us back. I've read a story where someone had a NDE, and the doctors couldn't get any response out of him. He was met by a relative who told him that it's not his time yet, so he regretfully started walking back through the tunnel, and right when he reached the end, his body then suddenly started showing vital signs when the doctors were about to give up.

 

True, lots of folks have had such near death experiences and evidently seen friends and family before coming back. But that's only a correlation, and it doesn't necessarily mean that there's something more than the brain. It could merely be chemicals going through the brain, causing hallucinations and whatnot before all function shuts down completely. Or it could be the soul leaving the body and attempting to get into the next place. But the point I'm tryin' to make is that there's no real way to know for sure which it is. At least, there's no way that I'm aware of.

[Adachi 772]

True, lots of folks have had such near death experiences and evidently seen friends and family before coming back. But that's only a correlation, and it doesn't necessarily mean that there's something more than the brain. It could merely be chemicals going through the brain, causing hallucinations and whatnot before all function shuts down completely. Or it could be the soul leaving the body and attempting to get into the next place. But the point I'm tryin' to make is that there's no real way to know for sure which it is. At least, there's no way that I'm aware of.

True, there is no real evidence. There are hundreds/thousands of people who report having NDEs, although many of them are different. Some say they see Hell, while some say there is no Hell, but a Heaven, while some say there's no Heaven or Hell, but one waiting area for the deceased that is full of the deceased, and guides. I think that where we go when we die is determined by what we believe, I think the soul might be beyond reality, and we don't exist in any specific area, we just simply are.

[Sugar Pea 2,682]

Attention Posters.

I have been noticing that some people are turning this into a debate/argument/whatever it is. I'm asking your opinions, not to go against anyone else's or challenge people because of their beliefs. Keep it civil, people. Please? That's all I ask. I understand it's a touchy subject, but keep in mind we are all individuals with individual opinions. Doing this isn't going to benefit you guys any. I think everyone would be much happier without that kind of stuff.

Thank you very much. 

Edited June 6, 2014 by Princess PeachBlink

[Shenron00 366]

I don't see why they can't, then again I don't read the Bible all that often (I don't even go to church unless I'm visiting my grandma). I don't really know, but I hope animals can join us in Heaven.

Edited June 7, 2014 by Shenron00

[EpicEnergy 23,227]

According to my beliefs as a Christian, I think animals don't go to heaven because they don't have a soul like human beings do.

Edited December 6, 2019 by FestiveEnergy

[Lucky Bolt 35,088]

Yes they do!  I like to think they do, anyway....

I hope to one day see my dog and cat I lost a few years ago. 

[Splashee 28,568]

I believe there are different sections of heaven, kinda like how there are Youtube, and Youtube-kids.

 

Spoiler

Animals probably don't go to any. I haven't seen a Youtube-Animals yet.

 

[Meson Bolt 2,648]

I don't think they do. Then again, I don't believe animals go to hell either. So that's nice. Wish I had that.

[TBD 17,257]

All that talk about animals having no souls I think, is pretty much bull. Animals does have the capability to feel empathy as much as people if not more. Example (I’m going more toward psychology)  killer whales have a larger amygdala that stimulates emotions than humans. Going out of psychology and more towards common sense, there are plenty of human who just plain soulless and yet God still loves them. So yes I do believe animals do go to heaven since I believe death is like going back home to your maker.