Thoughts on Starlight Glimmer as a villain

[Silver Stream. 708]

As some of you may know, I've been a firm believer of Starlight being a sinister villain due to the fact she was willing to turn Equestria to sh*t because her escape was taken away. Countless times I've stressed how weak the origin of her anger came from (losing a childhood friend) and it's because of how mentally and emotionally unstable she is that makes her scary in a way if you're the type to have a mindset of "people like this really DOES exist"

 

Lily Peer recently made a video about Starlight as a villain and why MOST OF EVERYTHING she says is indeed correct, I still can't shake the fact of what she's capable of despite being incompetent with a flawed philosophy.

 

I'm a follower of Lily....both agreeing and disagreeing with what is said but recently agreeing with how she pointed out how terrible "Crusaders of the Lost Mark" was and now this.

 

https://youtu.be/ojbVmyKAn_E

 

So with watching that, does it changes your opinion on Starlight as a villain or no? For me....no. Since over half of what was said I was already aware of. But she's still dangerous even if she's boring

[Manman20x6 359]

Starlight is my favorite villain so far. The fact that she's a normal pony with no unique powers makes her seem more realistic and darker, as it shows that not everyone in Equestria is as happy and friendly as what we normally see.

 

However, I felt like the motive the show gave her for becoming evil was much too weak on its own. And in a way, wasn't SHE the one who abandoned her friend when he got his cutie mark, rather than vice-versa? I think she must already have had a lot of problems BEFORE that happened.

[Jora 164]

she is one of the most complex villains ever i have tons of headcanon. theories and predicts for S6 and want to start a Starlight Skype group for such.

 

i mean look at how she shutdown twi and every pass More so when she was talking to the bully's twi could not even do a thing twi was out played just in that scene 200%  alone. 

 

and she is very unique in her craft and a very dangerous force to be reckoned with. and again twi on her own it very weak, i mean look starlight had to use the spell, use levitation magic *ON herself* and have a duel with twi, twi is not  some be all end all. she is at most 25-30% stronger then she is naturally, but with greater power comes more wear on its user because you have highted power and twi being new is not use to it. and during the "cutie map field trips" that take place around 6 months to a year at best and twi was bored and *not doing anything* where as starlight was preparing, sharpening her mind and making herself battle ready.   

Edited December 16, 2015 by Jora

[chirox the pony 1,334]

I love manipulative villains. And as I love 20th century history it only follows that I would enjoy an ideologically driven character. Although I won't deny her motivation didn't really make much sense. Like maybe if it was her whole community that shunned her it might make more sense but one person, really? 

[Jora 164]

well with her growing up i'm pretty sure she still got shit in her face so..but yeah the back story was meh but i love just how do anything to win attitude. i'd even go as far as if she lost outright in a battle and was beaten and *broken* she'd kill herself for that ideal  still again forcing twi's hand because she would see it from starlights prospective and implement her will in some way.

 

as a even if i lose i will still win out right. 

and also she should have remained a villain and ran once again, pick up S6 she is again teaching young filly's and colts (blank flanks and not) that bullying and what happened to her  wouldn't happen to anyone else. cue twilight and the gang (maybe, maybe not) she see's starlight and a some what civil talk from twi goes as such. "look starlight..this.. this right here is what you could be doing not fighting me but establishing peace talks, not only with the young ones but even with others, this is what i see is your calling as "equalling"...

 

then starlight starts to see and Slowly change still Jaded and defensive but open to the idea. and grow over the series.    

[cmarston1 5,952]

A pretty good villain with a meh motivation.

Too bad she had to go the cliche route and get redeemed. 

[Silver Stream. 708]

A pretty good villain with a meh motivation.

Too bad she had to go the cliche route and get redeemed.

 

 

And this is what kills it for me. Honestly....I had no troubles with her reformation however,.....oh God I cant believe I'm saying this...on God:

 

Starlight's Reformation was faster and dumber than DT's and Sunset's COMBINED.

 

She hasn't been redeemed yet though...only supposedly reformed. A redemption is something more like Sunset in RainbowRocks and Discord throughout the series after he was reformed. DT and Starlight has barely shown any sort of redeemable action.

 

As Lily said....it would have been great if those in the village would be wary of her and then gradually trust her again. Instead...they make a "hmmm" face and jump to give her hugs. No....just no.

 

 

And it's because of things like this why I find it bizarre why SOME antagonists and villains are so easily forgivable than others when they shouldn't be which was something I tried to point out in another discussion.

 

Starlight is a great villain because of her mental instability by believing what she does is justified due to a minor (or major for some people) event in her childhood. To think similar stories like this are what makes real life criminals today.

 

Though I think people confuse her motives with certain actions. Starlight did not try to change the future because of losing her friend....it was because her "escape" was taken away. In other words, her village she had built based on a philosophy she strongly stood by was derailed and casted aside as others discovered she was wrong. It was because of this she changed time. Regardless....yeah it all goes back to losing a friend....or more so losing CONTACT because they could have easily remained friends had she at least TRIED to keep in contact.

[J. Brony 313]

I agree that, as a villain, Starlight was amazing.  I really like her manipulative style and crafty way of doing things.  I think she would have been better served remaining a recurring nemesis for Twilight.  

 

But, as a sucker for happy endings, I can't complain with the way things turned out.  Starlight Glimmer deserves to be happy more than MLP needs another villain so I'm satisfied with her reformation.

[Silver Stream. 708]

In a way, manipulative isn't a word I'd personally use to describe Starlight being we all know the truth of her wholeheartedly believing in the philosophy she was teaching to the others and pressuring them to love by.

 

Starlight is....quite the complex character the writers could have done BETTER with executing. But there were a few flaws about her that hinders her from being above the others....the origin of why she went batshit insane and the unexplained or more so...confusing facts about her: main one being why the hell is she so powerful. Like Sunset, we don't know much...it hinders them both but at the same time keeps the audience wanting more even if it's to see whether their theory is right or wrong.

[Yeah ok 80]

What I don't understand is why she couldn't just go and see her friend who got taken away from her.

[Ianpiersonjdavis 512]

As a villain I thought she was perfectly evil and manipulative in the premiere-being a hypocrite who not only kept her Cutie Mark, but claims to fight for equality, while being perfectly willing to bully and brainwash those who don't fall in line with her ideology by expressing individuality and those who seek to do so are forced into hiding.

 

What made me lose all respect for her as both a villain and a believable character was that her excuse for starting a cult was very weak and shallow, and ultimately came off as pretty stupid considering in all of those years the thought never even occurred to her that she could write her friend a letter?

 

If she was just some power hungry lunatic who figured out that she could insidiously use the guise of her town being a bastion of equality as a shield to commit evil acts in Equestria and control others.

 

It just made her seem like she was either being dishonest to gain sympathy from Twilight at worst and an idiot at best in terms of her motivation for her extremism-in either case I any respect or empathy I may have had with her went out the window, I realized that with Twilight's ascension this was rushed, but it still dropped the ball in the same way for me in terms of the intended emotional impact.

 

Personally, I feel like if she somehow knew about and cited the dangers of Cutie Marks because of similar incidents to Cutie Mark swap from Magical Mystery Cure making Twilight's friends miserable, because their shackled by whatever their Cutie Marks tell them or something like Troubleshoes being miserable because of his and forming her ideology and gradually leading into extremism-that would have made her more three-dimensional and sympathetic to me. 

Edited December 17, 2015 by Ianpiersonjdavis

[Goat-kun 2,498]

This is a story about Frank the pegasus. Frank is brown. He likes hay burgers and hoofball. One day a friend ate Frank’s burger and lied about it. Frank found out and he was very upset. He dedicated his life towards eliminating all fast food production so that no friend could ever eat another’s burger and cause pain of bitter betrayal that Frank himself had to bear within his heart. Frank trained very hard and he caused an ice age. But then Steve the pegasus listened to his story and they became friends. Frank was now happy and didn’t want to eliminate all fast food production anymore.

 

Did I mention Frank is totally emotionally unstable and thus a super sinister and very complex villain. #FrankTheVillain now and force H-Bro to include him into MLP: FIM!

 

Seriously though, people with mental issues are not sinister at all and should never be regarded as such because of their conditions. I thought we got over this in the 90s.

 

Besides, good villains shouldn’t be measured by how eeeeevil they are but by how well they mesh with the main characters and the world itself. By such standards, Starlight Glimmer is not a good family show villain. Her colors and form are uninteresting, her motives contrived, she needs a ton of plot armor to work which makes characters we love look bad, and she brings nothing new and exciting neither as a villain nor as a hero.

[Silver Stream. 708]

This is a story about Frank the pegasus. Frank is brown. He likes hay burgers and hoofball. One day a friend ate Frank’s burger and lied about it. Frank found out and he was very upset. He dedicated his life towards eliminating all fast food production so that no friend could ever eat another’s burger and cause pain of bitter betrayal that Frank himself had to bear within his heart. Frank trained very hard and he caused an ice age. But then Steve the pegasus listened to his story and they became friends. Frank was now happy and didn’t want to eliminate all fast food production anymore.

 

Did I mention Frank is totally emotionally unstable and thus a super sinister and very complex villain. #FrankTheVillain now and force H-Bro to include him into MLP: FIM!

 

Seriously though, people with mental issues are not sinister at all and should never be regarded as such because of their conditions. I thought we got over this in the 90s.

 

Besides, good villains shouldn’t be measured by how eeeeevil they are but by how well they mesh with the main characters and the world itself. By such standards, Starlight Glimmer is not a good family show villain. Her colors and form are uninteresting, her motives contrived, she needs a ton of plot armor to work which makes characters we love look bad, and she brings nothing new and exciting neither as a villain nor as a hero.

I never mentioned nor inquired that all people with mental issues are automatically deemed villainous at all. But it depends on the actions that are driven by it that makes it scary. Perhaps many may agree with you, but everyone has a different perspective on the matter, therefore it can be regarded as such.

 

Starlight stripped cutiemarks, created a cult, stalked them throughout the series, potentially tried to kill Twilight and spike when she allowed them to fall to their deaths, and despite seeing the horrible future she'd cause if she followed through with her plan,she was still hellbent on ripping that spell scroll in two all because she was an unstable pony with grudge issues and a belief that cutiemarks ruins everything despite them having nothing to do with her losing a friend she could have easily sent letters to. True, she was a child, but even children will develop desires to go see a friend. Plus the fact she held on to this for so long is clear she wasn't healthu in the mind and I don't mean that in an offensive way c:

 

So yeah....that's pretty scary. Sinister even given her motive was driven on selfishness despite it being weak. It's an opinion I have and possibly others have....not really sure it should be made fun of because we don't measure how evil a villain is by the same standards.

 

Though I'll agree with the last part....those can be factors as well.

Edited December 17, 2015 by Silver Stream.

[Goat-kun 2,498]

Snip

People still have this belief that mental illnesses compel people to do bad deeds, and mental health is still quite a taboo theme in many communities. Well to be honest, there are types of delusions in schizophrenia (jealousy type, paranoid type) that can be quite problematic for people around the afflicted person, but the highest mortality rate goes to yours truly: depression and alcoholism. Then there are also personality disorders (psychopathy) that are associated with violent actions. See, I don’t mind if people use a mental illness for their characters, including villains, it just annoys me that it often becomes a character’s main focus which completely overshadows their other circumstances, abilities, even their place within a story. Madness needs to be used not as an excuse to make a bland character like Starlight Glimmer work but as an exotic spice that makes a great villain out of a good one. This is my problem with Starlight Glimmer and the use of mental issues as a major excuse to promote her imaginary excellence.

 

About her villainy and stuff: the writers made her overpowered and utterly resistant to failure (well, to be fair, they just made Twilight dumb as shit and elbowed all her friends to background status for two episodes), while deliberately downplaying her hurtful actions and going as far as giving her a free pass just because she’s a toy-worthy pone. However, they gave her nothing but a cringy backstory, a cuckoo scheme about an insignificant cult, a rabbit hole lore piece about personality traits that can be removed as easily as a plaster, and some Plot Swirl’s time junk that apparently couldn’t be dispelled/countered/purged by alicorn magic or found again in one’s current timeline if the future piece was destroyed.

 

You want to see a truly unhinged, truly dangerous time-related fantasy villain? Throw an eyeball towards Nox the Xelor from Wakfu S01. Starlight Glimmer would break beneath the burden of his sins. Even though he is powerful and unrelenting, he can be beaten, his motives are crazy yet sound, and most importantly: his character conveys time mage fantasy and meshes with the world.

 

On the other appendage, Starlight does not convey any fantasy at all. She’s not really a cult leader, she’s not really a time mage, she’s not some misguided vigilante, she’s not even a calculative bitch, she’s just there to be Twilight’s pet/Edgier Twilight. Such variety. I can’t fathom how MLP survived so long without her.

[Kyoshi Frost Wolf 40,300]

I found her to be a pretty terrible villain. Her little backstory was really weak, she was incredibly overpowered without any proper justification given and we still barely know anything about her. I am glad she is reformed, but they still have a lot of explaining to do to make me like her.

[LunatheNightmare 68]

I love Starlight Glimmer as a villain. What she did was pretty horrid and may not have been Eternal Night, Eternal Chaos or even Slavery but taking away what made a pony special for her ridiculous philosophy. Not to mention stopping the Sonic Rainboom more than once so the future gets all screwed up (that was unintentional though)

 

Her reformation was ok, but very rushed and disjointed. And her backstory was terrible - her motivation for starting Our Town was that her friend Sunburst left her to go to Celestia's school? Seriously? And we never saw how Starlight earned her cutie mark. Was she also sent of to Tia's school? And if she was, why didn't she attempt to make contact with Sunburst?

 

Her backstory would have been better if she was a pony Dictator or something. I would have even settled for her as a radical SJW

Edited December 19, 2015 by LunatheNightmare

[Silver Stream. 708]

 

 

Depression is a mental illness. Personality disorders are a mental illness as well? So....I honestly don't know how to really to respond to all that when it was flawed from the beginning by saying believing that mental illness compel people to do bad deeds (thought this is NOT true for EVERY case...because I never implied that), but then later say personal disorders are associated with violent actions which is a bad deed itself. If I'm misunderstanding, then I apologize in advance but....yeah. 

 

As far as how you see Starlight Glimmer, I don't have any intentions to even say different because I've already expressed her MANY flaws and how she could have been better had it not been for all that you pointed out and what Lily Peet said in the video xDDD. I was only saying that I personally find her the scariest villain because of how unstable she was and was capable of all because of a weak motive. I even mentioned how "Manipulative" wasn't a word I'd even use for....if anything she lied to herself and gradually started brainwashing herself before anypony else.....she's incompatent with a flawed philosophy and was obviously crazy "upstairs".....there are real people out there like that who are capable. To me.....a villain I fear the most is ranked at the top of my list. It's a personal opinion....I'm not trying to say "everyone needs to realize how evil and brillaint Starlight is because she is crazy....and because of this, ignore all her flaws

 

 

@Kyoshi:  Well......a lot of people DID want to see Sunset as a pony in the series....I guess we got her as a recolored villain     

Edited December 19, 2015 by Silver Stream.

[Cleverclover 1,525]

I thought she was a great villain.....at least until Haber got a hold of her...

[Eiwly 77]

I'll be honest, I quite liked her as a villain. I think what sold her for me was because she's nothing special. x) okay it's kinda mean when I put it like that, but besides having a talent for magic that clearly rivals Twilight's, she's just another pony. She's not some all powerful immortal being, hellbent on either destroying or taking over the world. She's just an jaded pony with talent and a certain amount of charisma, who want's revenge on the one's who slighted her. And I think it makes her great, because she shows the dangers of what happens when someone with warped views get's into a position of power. She brings a level of realism because there is always the possibility of people like her. She's a more realistic villain and it hits closer to home.

 

As for her backstory, I fully agree with what other's have said: it's too short. It honestly could have been expanded upon. Maybe if they had shown her at other stages in life, what had happened to her then, it would have been more understandable. Was she hurt or rejected by other ponies? Was she forgotten again by people she called friends? The writers reeeeeally rushed it, and should've taken more time developing how she ended up like she did, I think. Though on some level it's understandable, cause when you're young, loosing a friend like that hurts, and mentally it can affect how you approach similar things later in life.

 

I'm not sympathetic to her in any way, but I can see where she's coming from, she's jaded and was slighted by Twi and her friends, and totally acted out in this crazy revenge scheme. Lol I know people irl who'd also concoct a crazy revenge scheme too if they were slighted so I guess it's not too unrealistic  Still, her backstory and redemption were rushed imo. Wish they coulda saved most of the redeeming stuff till next season, but w/e I just hope we get to see her more!

 

Also as for the video, didn't change my opinion of her at all lol. Idk but most of the stuff that's pointed out in it, is obvious if you just watch the episode. To me the vid just sounds like an angry rant of someone who didn't like Starlight lol, but that's just imo~

[Quinch 1,119]

Here's the flaw that I see with your argument - Starlight Glimmer isn't a villain. She's the antagonist, and while these two things frequently overlap, they aren't synonymous. In fact, half of the video you showed reams her out on the premise that she fails to be the cackling menace she's apparently expected to be, and the other half for not acting like a perfectly rational robot with unerring prediction of consequences of her actions.

 

Short version {I can write out a longer one, if anyone wants}, she's not a villain - she wasn't written to be one either. Rather, she was simply a person with issues and potential they chose to put to use, even if it was for a misguided goal.

Edited December 19, 2015 by Quinch

[Silver Stream. 708]

I'm aware of the difference between a villain and an antagonist. Which is why I'll admit you're right for using the term. Despite her actions...she never had a sinister motive really. So yeah....can't argue with that.

 

 

Regardless.....villain are not, she is still ranked somewhat high on my list

[Goat-kun 2,498]

Snip Mk II

Personality disorder is not a mental illness but a bundle of exaggerated personality traits. Nothing is as black and white as it seems and this applies to mental illnesses as well. One must take into account their specific signs and symptoms, the patient in question along with their circumstances, but for one to say that some general mental affliction would immediately make you predisposed towards criminal activity no matter what is bad judgment employed by the uninformed. It’s the same bullshit as stating that a person with strabismus suffers from mental retardation. I grant that there are those who do compel you to hurt yourself/others, but I trust that goes beyond an MLP writer’s paycheck. Leave them to writers that actually do their research beyond the pages of Wikipedia.

 

I won’t try to argue your personal opinion. Like whomever you want however you want it. Me, I have time. I’ll just sit and wait.

[Silver Stream. 708]

Personality disorder is not a mental illness but a bundle of exaggerated personality traits. Nothing is as black and white as it seems and this applies to mental illnesses as well. One must take into account their specific signs and symptoms, the patient in question along with their circumstances, but for one to say that some general mental affliction would immediately make you predisposed towards criminal activity no matter what is bad judgment employed by the uninformed. It’s the same bullshit as stating that a person with strabismus suffers from mental retardation. I grant that there are those who do compel you to hurt yourself/others, but I trust that goes beyond an MLP writer’s paycheck. Leave them to writers that actually do their research beyond the pages of Wikipedia.

 

I won’t try to argue your personal opinion. Like whomever you want however you want it. Me, I have time. I’ll just sit and wait.

http://bjp.rcpsych.org/content/180/2/110

 

Not really worth the argument being I never said mental illnesses automatically predisposes you the an individual towards criminal activity xD especially when I stressed that maybe a thousand times. Anyone who proceeds to stress a point based off.... what I didn't say or imply....really isn't worth the effort because that's an insult. I'm capable of admitting wrong or being flawed within any discussion as I did prior to your recent reply, but it's impossible to even try to find 100% accuracy in your logic as it must be hard for you to find in mine.

 

Saying you won't argue with a personal opinion but coming in doing just is a contradiction in itself along with a lot of other contradictions I'm seeing in your argument but I'm far too much in a "idc" mood to point them out. I usually lose interest when coming to these sorts of conclusions. I have time as well, but it can go to far better things. So any future responses dealing with the matter may not be given a reply being I wish to avoid further frustrating myself and my college roommates, who aren't even into MLP that much, but seem to be bewildered and amused as well. No offense to you or anyone though, I just don't want this to turn into some war over what you and I consider a mental illness and how it's assumed that I think mental illnesses are the full cause of all bad actions and makes an individual a brilliant evil villain even with their many many many flaws.

 

Discussion still open for anyone who still wants to express their thoughts on Starlight as a villain

Edited December 19, 2015 by Silver Stream.

[Lithophila 291]

She was in darkness. But she found life in friendship ^^.

 

Twilight is a good pony bringing warmth and kindness in pony's hearts. Starlight is a nice friendly pony, she was just misunderstood

[Goat-kun 2,498]

http://bjp.rcpsych.org/content/180/2/110

 

Not really worth the argument being I never said mental illnesses automatically predisposes you the an individual towards criminal activity xD especially when I stressed that maybe a thousand times. Anyone who proceeds to stress a point based off.... what I didn't say or imply....really isn't worth the effort because that's an insult. I'm capable of admitting wrong or being flawed within any discussion as I did prior to your recent reply, but it's impossible to even try to find 100% accuracy in your logic as it must be hard for you to find in mine.

 

Saying you won't argue with a personal opinion but coming in doing just is a contradiction in itself along with a lot of other contradictions I'm seeing in your argument but I'm far too much in a "idc" mood to point them out. I usually lose interest when coming to these sorts of conclusions. I have time as well, but it can go to far better things. So any future responses dealing with the matter may not be given a reply being I wish to avoid further frustrating myself and my college roommates, who aren't even into MLP that much, but seem to be bewildered and amused as well. No offense to you or anyone though, I just don't want this to turn into some war over what you and I consider a mental illness and how it's assumed that I think mental illnesses are the full cause of all bad actions and makes an individual a brilliant evil villain even with their many many many flaws.

 

Discussion still open for anyone who still wants to express their thoughts on Starlight as a villain

I am sorry that my points got across as such. Here, let me try one final time to clear things out.

 

-Firstly, I implied that a mental illness or a similar condition does not make a great villain. This was not directed towards you specifically but towards the fandom in general where edgy characters run rampant. It’s an interesting theme, so perhaps I overdid it and the whole thing crashed into the uncharted waters. Sorry.

-Secondly, I stated that a villain, no matter how great on paper, must first be placed in the context of a fictional environment to see it they stick. I then explained why I think that Starlight Glimmer isn’t a good character/villain for MLP.

-Thirdly, I don’t care if you like this character and why. I just consider that all things are fair game as long as one’s personal reasons aren’t brought into the fray. I described that as “personal opinion”.

 

P.S: I read the article. You should do it too. It explains the struggle to define them.

 

Good day/good night, and to all others: carry on.