Are Bronies short sighted to future show plans?

[Mesme Rize 15,681]

So recently, in the last few months, with all the controversy surrounding Starlight Glimmers redemption and the introduction princess flurry heart in the trailer for season 6, i see people already being enraged on the simple concept of these ideas, the very second they happen.

 

I was always already of the opinion that there is never a thing, as a bad idea, just bad executions. You can take some of the most cliche ideas in the book and make something amazing out of it.

 

Do we, as a fandom, really feel that unsure about those kind of things? Do we feel so unsure and like to spread doom and gloom about those things, just because they happend and not because what comes out of it?

 

Look, i also thought that Starlights redemption was kinda cheesy and i also thought that Flurry Hearts design is kinda questionable. But is it so wrong, to give these things a chance?

[Lambdadelta 1,462]

That why I really love Party Pooped so much, that episode portrayed this fandom really well (at least their dark side).

[Megas 27,136]

Bronies nowadays tend to get easily angry over the smallest things, let alone big changes

 

 

 

I was always already of the opinion that there is never a thing, as a bad idea, just bad executions. You can take some of the most cliche ideas in the book and make something amazing out of it.

 

 

I agree with this mentality. I don't think there's anything wrong with not liking an idea(I'm no stranger to disliking the idea of redeeming Starlight for example), but I do think any idea should be given a fair chance on the possibility of being well executed(it's probably why I dislike Starlight's redemption more is because of poor execution, I probably could've bought it if it was much better executed)

[ManaMinori 4,144]

Silly OP. You know they are.

You see them being shortsighted. You present the evidence in your post, even. Need you really ask?

[Yufery 205]

I can agree with this statement. Just about every change the fandom seems to randomly dislike (Starlight, Twilicorn, Rainbow Power, Flurry Hearts, etc) I seem to like, and I just can not understand why people dislike them. I mean if you have your own opinion, that's fine, but so many seem keen on shoving it down other's throats as if what they thought of the episodes/trailers was complete and utter fact. It just gets annoying to log on to an MLP site to not talk about the positives of the show, but to see a LARGE number of people focusing on all the problems they see with it. If you're like me and can't agree with about 99.9% of these problems, it gets ridiculous.

 

But I digress. I can wholeheartedly say that a lot of bronies can't grasp the concept that the show may actually have plans in the future. I mean for instance, the whole Applelosa's Most Wanted thing. A lot disliked that episode for 'continuity errors' or whatever, when it was just taking the whole idea of cutie marks in a new direction, beginning to reveal what they actually meant, foreshadowing what would later be shown in Crusaders of the Lost Mark and Cutie Remark. And I hear that a lot didn't seem to grasp the concept that Twilicorn had plans as well, but instantaneously thought the show would go downhill. So I guess history just repeats itself.

[GeekySonic 1,150]

I'd like to think not, but sometimes I wonder. Not once in the duration of my time as a fan of the show have I thought to myself, "That was a bad idea."

 

There are certain aspects I think could have been improved, but nothing that makes me angry with the outcome.

 

I personally liked the season 5 finale, and Flurry Hearts looks a bit odd, truth be told.

 

But I try to go into MLP with a blank slate. I know I don't like every episode, so I don't get hyped about whatever is coming next.

 

If I like it, yay for me. If not, oh well, it's not the end of the world.

[ManaMinori 4,144]

Bronies nowadays tend to get easily angry over the smallest things, let alone big changes

 

 

 

I agree with this mentality. I don't think there's anything wrong with not liking an idea(I'm no stranger to disliking the idea of redeeming Starlight for example), but I do think any idea should be given a fair chance on the possibility of being well executed(it's probably why I dislike Starlight's redemption more is because of poor execution, I probably could've bought it if it was much better executed)

it's far from just Bronies who get upset at the smallest little thing, dear. That's just about everyone. So yes, if one singled out a single fandom, only the ones being spotlighted in that fandom are bound to be seen in that way, in comparison to non focused fandoms.

[Riganthor 484]

It seems bronies aren't good with handling change, isn't that a mental illnes (I make fun off it because I can have A hard time with addapting to new things aswell. Trhat said I find it a shame that people are so quickly to judge the new princess, we have seen nothing off here so please wait untill you have seen the episode before you rage.

[Mesme Rize 15,681]

Silly OP. You know they are.

 

I think if i do, i probably wouldn't have started this thread, because i met a quite some reasonable bronies, who are very civilized.

[Guest]

I suppose they are sometimes, but it can't really be helped I suppose.

[Aurora Storm 83]

My dislike of Starlight's redemption thus far stems from poor execution. Her reason for being "evil" was just badly explained IMO. Her friend getting his cutie mark just doesn't justify or make me sympathize with her behavior. That's why the idea of her being part of the mane 6/making her a mane 7th, is so unappealing. Her redemption in and of itself isn't something that bothers me. I'm all for change and forgiveness, however I think they could  have given her a better backstory to make her more sympathetic.

[Steve Piranha 28,999]

So recently, in the last few months, with all the controversy surrounding Starlight Glimmers redemption and the introduction princess flurry heart in the trailer for season 6, i see people already being enraged on the simple concept of these ideas, the very second they happen.

 

I was always already of the opinion that there is never a thing, as a bad idea, just bad executions. You can take some of the most cliche ideas in the book and make something amazing out of it.

 

Do we, as a fandom, really feel that unsure about those kind of things? Do we feel so unsure and like to spread doom and gloom about those things, just because they happend and not because what comes out of it?

 

Look, i also thought that Starlights redemption was kinda cheesy and i also thought that Flurry Hearts design is kinda questionable. But is it so wrong, to give these things a chance?

PFFFFT, let them complain, we did it at Canterlot Wedding, Twilicorn, and Equestria Girls, and we later loved them. Why would it be different this time? 

 

That why I really love Party Pooped so much, that episode portrayed this fandom really well (at least their dark side).

Yeah, we hated the yaks for being so douchy, but don't realize it's a reflection of ourselves 

[Dark Qiviut 22,192]

Yes and no. We as a people are individuals, and you can't accurately predict how they're going to react to anything, from a teaser to the episode or film itself.

 

One thing about FIM canon is each season is mostly planned for that season alone. Like Thomas & Friends, continuity occurs on the fly. Each season finale is also treated, in many respects, like a series finale; at the time the finale's scripts are locked, they don't know what to do for next season's premiere, because they don't know if one will be coming.

 

Secondly, not everything this show produces is good. Cadance and Shining Armor are just as flat now as during ACW. The Twilicorn and all of EQG are executed poorly. Flurry Heart triggers very obvious concerns because other products have done something similar very poorly, and we don't know how she'll be handled or who's writing it.

 

That why I really love Party Pooped so much, that episode portrayed this fandom really well (at least their dark side).

 

 

Yeah, we hated the yaks for being so douchy, but don't realize it's a reflection of ourselves

It's as accurate as the rural Southern stereotypes in Hooffields. In other words, their accuracy is absolutely zero.

 

Secondly, the yaks' offense and anger are very justified. They were promised directly that everything Ponyville does and gives them will be one-hundred-percent accurate to their Yakyakistan culture. Instead, they found out Ponyville appropriated their culture through a series of lies. If you promise to deliver something true to groups of people who take their culture and aspects of it very seriously, don't screw up by being cheap with it.

 

 

 

Just about every change the fandom seems to randomly dislike (Starlight, Twilicorn, Rainbow Power, Flurry Hearts, etc) I seem to like, and I just can not understand why people dislike them.

 

 

It just gets annoying to log on to an MLP site to not talk about the positives of the show, but to see a LARGE number of people focusing on all the problems they see with it. If you're like me and can't agree with about 99.9% of these problems, it gets ridiculous.

Your first sentence I quoted is a strawman. It's not the change that sets some bronies off, but the change's quality instead. There are very solid explanations why a lot of people dislike Rainbow Power, Twilicorn, EQG, the Royal Couple, Flash Sentry, etc. Valid concerns for Flurry Heart exist, and those concerns stem from other shows introducing new characters shoddily for whichever reasons, including Fairly Odd Parents. You just have to look for them and analyze them. Teasers should hype up the episode and present a good first impression of future work. If FH is well-executed, the people who produced the teaser are to blame for placing a false impression of low story quality on the viewers.

 

Secondly, this show isn't perfect. FIM is objectively good, but quality flaws exist. For one, this show has a well-earned reputation for overlooking unfortunate implications. I created a whole thread about it here.

 

Lastly, like I wrote above, continuity is season to season. When they wrote for season three, they weren't thinking of season four. When they wrote season four's episodes, they weren't thinking ahead of season five, and so on. The finales for the last two seasons are a compromise: give the team an opening for what to write next year, yet make the finales feel complete enough if the series isn't renewed. Magical Mystery Cure, for example, was originally the series finale. DHX got no word that season four was ordered until a few weeks after Larson submitted his final draft for the episode. Consequently, editor Meghan McCarthy scrambles and rewrote the entire plot herself just to make it feel like a continuation for the season four premiere.

[Goat-kun 2,502]

Let us turn this table with a now popular question: Do good intentions legitimize bad execution with negative consequences? They never do. Instant reformations can be done, but there isn’t anything spectacular about Glimmer or her switch. A mediocre character with rushed sob story and unexplored ambitions that divides your fandom, not because of the idea itself, but mainly because of how sloppy it was executed in all its gloomy mediocrity, is a bad thing to have in any story.

 

Now if you were to say: “Hey fandom, why U so mean to Glim-Glim cause she’s all wicked and equal-y?” then you’d be on to something. But saying: “Hey fandom, why U so mean to Glim-Glim cause y’all think she’s a badly executed character with a rushed story?” is just white knighting.

 

About Flurryfluff: I actually think it will all work out with that bundle of wings. I just hope she doesn’t become a plot device and will actually be developed along with her family. However, my own acceptance of this foal does not make me dismissive of the concerns other Bronies have in regard to her introduction. We got another alicorn, another toy dressed in character’s clothing. This can get ugly if not addressed with lore it deserves.

 

It’s not wrong to give things a chance, but it’s also completely reasonable to expect negativity based on previous experience.

 

P.S: Yak just isn’t me. Can I be an Arimaspi instead? Or maybe a flaming dragon! Yes? No? You want me to suffer and still picture me as a yak? Damn you!

[Megas 27,136]

It's as accurate as the rural Southern stereotypes in Hooffields. In other words, their accuracy is absolutely zero.

 

I wouldn't be so quick to dismiss that notion. Whether it was it was intentional on the writers part or not(most likely it wasn't), I think it's pretty telling when a lot of fans can find parallels between the yaks and the fandom. Much like the show, the fandom isn't perfect, and as much as some don't like to admit it, a lot of times we(myself included) do end up acting out unreasonably towards the writers when ever the show doesn't go perfectly.

Edited February 6, 2016 by Megas

[Dark Qiviut 22,192]

I wouldn't be so quick to dismiss that notion. Whether it was it was intentional on the writers part or not(most likely), I think it's pretty telling when a lot of fans can find parallels between the yaks and the fandom. Much like the show, the fandom isn't perfect, and as much as some don't like to admit it, a lot of times we(myself included) do end up acting out unreasonably towards the writers when ever the show doesn't go perfectly.

I'll definitely be quick.

1. The yaks are stereotypes of vikings and Indigenous people (specifically those in the Canadian territories). Stereotypes are false representations of someone or something. There's nothing accurate about stereotypes in any way.
2. Once more, the yaks are completely justified in their offense and anger. Cultures aren't something to take for granted. Like a lot of people in real life, the yaks are very proud of their culture and were promised a serious, accurate representation of it. Ponyville (and specifically Twilight) lied to them by appropriating it.

[El Duderino 878]

The fandom also forgets that this is a childrens show, and (almost) everything they do in it is to please the children who watch it.

Sure, every once in a while the show does a small shout out to the fandom, but when they are coming up with ideas and designs for the show, they do not consider what bronies would like.

 

We watch a childrens show with expectations we would have when watching an adult drama. The fandom over-analyzes everything that happens in the show. Of course people get upset about every little thing in the show.

[Dark Qiviut 22,192]

@@El Duderino, Just because FIM is appropriate for kids doesn't free it from criticism. Ironically, the fact that they're developed with them in mind puts them under even bigger scrutiny for criticism. Kids learn and understand writing quality far better than all of us think, but they're also easily impressionable. Without criticism, the show can't improve. We adults are a borne vessel to give these kids a voice. Criticism of the product sends a message to DHX and Hasbro to treat kids with respect, especially if the episode and/or moral are highly offensive.

 

FIM isn't a kids' show. It's a family show. All-ages and gender-neutral. Dozens of times, FIM crosses thin paper boundaries to attract multiple age demographics, including criticisms about the fairy tale clichés and standardized school system, the effects of plagiarism, and the greyer morals over the past two seasons. The maturer stories and morals (especially if done well) really respect kids' intelligence.

 

Thirdly, being a "kids' show" doesn't free it from analysis, be it positive, negative, or in between. Analysis and reviews exist for so many reasons, one of them an expectation of quality set by the studio. Quality is demographically blind.

[Yufery 205]

 

 

Your first sentence I quoted is a strawman. It's not the change that sets some bronies off, but the change's quality instead. There are very solid explanations why a lot of people dislike Rainbow Power, Twilicorn, EQG, the Royal Couple, Flash Sentry, etc. Valid concerns for Flurry Heart exist, and those concerns stem from other shows introducing new characters shoddily for whichever reasons, including Fairly Odd Parents. You just have to look for them and analyze them. Teasers should hype up the episode and present a good first impression of future work. If FH is well-executed, the people who produced the teaser are to blame for placing a false impression of low story quality on the viewers.

 

Secondly, this show isn't perfect. FIM is objectively good, but quality flaws exist. For one, this show has a well-earned reputation for overlooking unfortunate implications. I created a whole thread about it here.

 

Lastly, like I wrote above, continuity is season to season. When they wrote for season three, they weren't thinking of season four. When they wrote season four's episodes, they weren't thinking ahead of season five, and so on. The finales for the last two seasons are a compromise: give the team an opening for what to write next year, yet make the finales feel complete enough if the series isn't renewed. Magical Mystery Cure, for example, was originally the series finale. DHX got no word that season four was ordered until a few weeks after Larson submitted his final draft for the episode. Consequently, editor Meghan McCarthy scrambles and rewrote the entire plot herself just to make it feel like a continuation for the season four premiere.

I don't care to argue with you all day, since to be quite honest it seems you hold your viewpoints fairly strongly, but I'll say this:

 

Flaws with a show are more subjective than you think. Just because a large group of people feel something has errors doesn't mean others have to agree with it, and it doesn't make them objectively true. In my eyes, there isn't too much that's objectively good, bad, whatever, with a few exceptions. Not to mention how others could interpret something in a different way and thus affect how they see something. Just because people can support their opinions with things from the show does not make their opinions fact, contrary to what way too many seem to believe. 

 

As for people judging other shows, it isn't fair to do that since other shows typically have entirely different writers with ranging talents, and most other shows tend to do plot lines that MLP does, however they typically do them way later than when MLP would, around the time that they noticeably beging to run out of ideas. Also, as for the season to season continuity, I do know about season 3's original plans, but honestly who is to say that beyond that, the writers didn't plan ahead of time? I mean, based on what I know, I haven't seen any of them post anything that could even vaguely give off the hint that, from beyond season 3, they didn't plan ahead.

 

But, you have your viewpoints, and I have mine. It's clear to me that as much as I defend my side, you most likely won't agree with me, and vice versa. So I'm going to end it here before this thread becomes an off-topic debate.

Edited February 6, 2016 by Yufery

[Silver Letter 1,830]

As far as that foal thing we saw, I don't think it's looking so good. I don't really think that the show writers have any real concrete understanding of their own fictional universe that they've created. There are good reasons to be apprehensive about the future of FiM, namely the foal and the overarching concept of "explore equestria", which is frankly not good enough of a concept in my opinion to hang a whole season around.

 

 

 

Once more, the yaks are completely justified in their offense and anger.

Maybe but they should have appealed in other ways than violence. I worry that Twilight can't handle herself as a true leader because of things like her failure to control the Yaks. She should have put a lid on that immediately.

[El Duderino 878]

@@El Duderino, Just because FIM is appropriate for kids doesn't free it from criticism. Ironically, the fact that they're developed with them in mind puts them under even bigger scrutiny for criticism. Kids learn and understand writing quality far better than all of us think, but they're also easily impressionable. Without criticism, the show can't improve. We adults are a borne vessel to give these kids a voice. Criticism of the product sends a message to DHX and Hasbro to treat kids with respect, especially if the episode and/or moral are highly offensive.

 

FIM isn't a kids' show. It's a family show. All-ages and gender-neutral. Dozens of times, FIM crosses thin paper boundaries to attract multiple age demographics, including criticisms about the fairy tale clichés and standardized school system, the effects of plagiarism, and the greyer morals over the past two seasons. The maturer stories and morals (especially if done well) really respect kids' intelligence.

 

Thirdly, being a "kids' show" doesn't free it from analysis, be it positive, negative, or in between. Analysis and reviews exist for so many reasons, one of them an expectation of quality set by the studio. Quality is demographically blind.

 

 

You point out some good things I hadn't thought about, but what I mean is that it is not fair to judge a kids show, or I guess a family show, by the same standards we judge some shows. We should criticize it, but in the right way way. I've read topics on the forums that criticize and analyze the smallest detail of the show, and no one thinks that maybe they did that just because they thought kids would like it.

 

It's like when you are in a high school English class reading a book and the book says that "the curtains were blue" and the teacher is like "the author said they are blue because of the characters deep emotions...", but the author just meant that the curtains were fucking blue. That doesn't mean you shouldn't analyze the book, just not every single tiny detail. Some authors write with extreme symbolism, and you should analyze every little thing, and some authors don't. 

 

I think this also applies to TV shows. MLP is just not the type of show where you need to analyze every little detail, because sometimes they include something in the show just because they thought it would look cool, or kids will like it, or the animator found it funny, etc... not because they are including hidden symbolism. Most family/kids shows are like this. It's the nature of the genre. Just enjoy the show for what it is. I guess some people like to analyze things just for the sake of analyzing it, which is fine, but at least recognize that the authors of the show didn't mean for it to be analyzed, and don't get upset over something because you over-analyzed it.

 

Also, even if it is a family show, you can't deny that it is directed mostly toward kids. 

Edited February 6, 2016 by El Duderino

[Swifty 249]

There are good reasons to be apprehensive about the future of FiM, namely the foal and the overarching concept of "explore equestria", which is frankly not good enough of a concept in my opinion to hang a whole season around.

 

Maybe but they should have appealed in other ways than violence. I worry that Twilight can't handle herself as a true leader because of things like her failure to control the Yaks. She should have put a lid on that immediately.

Eyup. It was mostly the violence, that made them more unlikable than former Gilda. Then only Manehattan and Appleloosa on twitter and EQD are confirmed as new places, cities we have already seen 2-4 times. Not a very promising start so far. Edited February 7, 2016 by Swifty

[Lambdadelta 1,462]

Doubt has plagued the fandom and they will cause more sanity damage to others (Eldritch style, muaahahaha). That Eldritch abomination named Flurry Heart will make you mad and sink the fandom into darkness lol. That what you get when you treat a cartoon show as if it was Game of Throne so seriously, but it cant be helped, we love this show and love can lead to doubt.

[Silver Letter 1,830]

 

 

Then only Manehattan and Appleloosa on twitter and EQD are confirmed as new places, cities we have already seen 2-4 times.

Manehattan will have been shown three seasons in a row. It's time to get some new locales in this show. Unless Rarity still has some development left in the city, I don't see a reason to go back there.

[Sidral Mundet 1,666]

Half and half. Yeah there are some people out there that just want to see the world burn etc etc and make things out to be the worst they can be, but then the show give us big implications, little explanations and a long wait in-between with the finale and teasers and so people extrapolate.

What one images is almost always going to be 1000 times better or worse than what might actually happen. For instance I had the opposite problem with one episode, Bats!. I was so hyped for that episode, and thought it was going to be spectacular and then the floor caved in and I got a rather meh episode that is probably far lower on my list just because of that reason alone.  So I think it's more so the fact that such high expectations are placed on the show.