Does anybody think that fans are being too harsh on Starlight?

[Stormlight 1,371]

Starlight's character development was one that I hadn't seen before in MLP (maybe I'm wrong, but oh well), and I could see why many of the fans dislike her for certain reasons.

 

For one, the quick redemption she had during the Season 5 finale. After all that Starlight has done, such as alter timelines and causing the fate of Equestria to be worse each time she did, or even trick ponies in a small town in giving up their cutie marks because of "Equality".

 

Her backstory could use some work, but other than that, she doesn't deserve all the hate thrown at her. This is just like the outrage when Twilight became a alicorn princess. Just give the mare some time, and then maybe others will have a change of heart.

[Wind Chaser 4,767]

People complain that her backstory doesn't justify her turning evil, but all we saw was one small piece of her childhood, there was a lot of time between her losing her friend, and the events of 'The Cutie Map' and a lot could have happened to her in that time.

While that's true, the episode would definitely have been much better to acknowledge it. But the only dot it gave us to connect was that one single experience with one single person was the catalyst of all that happened, and it can be assumed nothing else was important enough to be mentioned unless you explain that the episode couldn't be bothered to do anything more with her. That alone is what pretty much made this face-heel-face transition so unbelievable to most fans, and in substance barely worth anything more than what the show's already done regarding friendship being the be-all, end-all answer to talking down every other villain.

Edited February 27, 2016 by Wind Chaser

[Concerned Bystander 2,902]

While that's true, the episode would definitely have been much better to acknowledge it. But the only dot it gave us to connect was that one single experience with one single person was the catalyst of all that happened, and it can be assumed nothing else was important enough to be mentioned unless you explain that the episode couldn't be bothered to do anything more with her. That alone is what pretty much made this face-heel-face transition so unbelievable to most fans, and in substance barely worth anything more than what the show's already done regarding friendship being the be-all, end-all answer to talking down every other villain.

 

The have a very short format program to work with.  If they spent as much time on Starlight's backstory as it deserved then there wouldn't have been a lot of time left for anything else.  It's just a sad fact that things will often appear rushed simply because they don't have the time to do them proper justice.

[Captain Sorzo 56]

The have a very short format program to work with.  If they spent as much time on Starlight's backstory as it deserved then there wouldn't have been a lot of time left for anything else.  It's just a sad fact that things will often appear rushed simply because they don't have the time to do them proper justice.

 

That defense would be more justifiable if most of Re-Mark's running time wasn't wasted on pointless, repetitive alternate timelines and seeing Dash being prevented from creating the Rainboom again and again. The only scenes that actually mattered in the grand scheme of things were those involving Starlight's backstory and 'redemption', which were not only rushed but incredibly poorly written, even by Haber's abysmal standards.

 

Even if most of the episode wasn't essentially filler, lack of running time isn't a good excuse for a two-parter, particularly one with the audacity to essentially exclude all but one of the Mane 6. The writer had a whopping 44 minutes to tell a story. FiM's had numerous great episodes half that length. Steven Universe regularly tells compelling stories in a fourth of it.

 

If a story concept can't be reasonably told using the resources allotted, it should be discarded, or at least set aside in the event circumstances change.

Edited February 27, 2016 by Captain Sorzo

[Concerned Bystander 2,902]

That defense would be more justifiable if most of Re-Mark's running time wasn't wasted on pointless, repetitive alternate timelines and seeing Dash being prevented from creating the Rainboom again and again. The only scenes that actually mattered in the grand scheme of things were those involving Starlight's backstory and 'redemption', which were not only rushed but incredibly poorly written, even by Haber's abysmal standards.

 

I'm inclined to disagree, the various ways in which the rainboom was prevented, and the fact that each led to a different version of the present was key in demonstrating the whole 'butterfly effect' that was after all, the entire point of the episode, and made for a very interesting montage of possible timelines.  The whole Starlight reformation thing was largely just tacked on to make the rest of the episode have something to lead up to.  In this case though (and fairly unusual for any story), the middle of the story was far more important than either the beginning or the end.

[Stasis 39]

I'm inclined to disagree, the various ways in which the rainboom was prevented, and the fact that each led to a different version of the present was key in demonstrating the whole 'butterfly effect' that was after all, the entire point of the episode, and made for a very interesting montage of possible timelines. The whole Starlight reformation thing was largely just tacked on to make the rest of the episode have something to lead up to. In this case though (and fairly unusual for any story), the middle of the story was far more important than either the beginning or the end.

So Starlights resolution and arc is less important than filler? That sounds utterly ridiculous you could easily cut out every timeline except the wasteland one and you would've achieved the same effect. Instead of timelines we could've actually spent time actually getting positively emotionally involved in her character instead of what we got.

[Concerned Bystander 2,902]

So Starlights resolution and arc is less important than filler? That sounds utterly ridiculous you could easily cut out every timeline except the wasteland one and you would've achieved the same effect. Instead of timelines we could've actually spent time actually getting positively emotionally involved in her character instead of what we got.

 

Evidently the storycutters at DHX thought the middle was more interesting, I agree with them.  You are of course entitled to your own opinion so I won't try to tell you that you're wrong.  I think having a long sob story to explain Starlight's villainy, and then a long reversal of her behaviour would have lessened the story, maybe I'm just too used to seeing reformations being squeezed into a short format to the point that I just accept it.  Personally, I loved the episode, but that is the view of the person in question and may not reflect the views of the parent company or affiliates, your experience may vary.

[KatonRyu 1,027]

Only if those rejections were directly tied in to Cutie Marks. Personally I think it would have been better if they'd gone the opposite route, with Starlight being so incredibly talented that her erstwhile friends became resentful and abandoned her. The differences between her and everyone around her would then lead her to conclude that if others dislike her for being different, everyone should just be the same to solve that problem.

[Wind Chaser 4,767]

The have a very short format program to work with. If they spent as much time on Starlight's backstory as it deserved then there wouldn't have been a lot of time left for anything else. It's just a sad fact that things will often appear rushed simply because they don't have the time to do them proper justice.

To be completely truthful, though, how many AUs did they need to show to make that point? By my count, I'd say two, maybe three to be generous. Speaking of generous, that would also describe the screentime of the King Sombra AU, which took up about half of the first episode.

 

The pacing of the episode was very much out of balance when it comes to giving Starlight not an elongated "sob story", but a proper three-act structure that would have fit in between all of the other stuff and would have offered more than the bare minimum. It's possible, not a Herculean task, but definitely difficult considering the writing deadlines of the show and that Josh Haber definitely can't write these things like McCarthy or Larson can.

[MAIKUN 262]

Man oh Man I've got a feeling that Starlight would revert back to her evil ways in S6...which means she was pretending to be reformed through the whole time. Right?

[Looks 130]

To me, she was more of a "nuisance" than an actual villain throughout the series. It never really made sense why the loss of one friend really got to her, without any other events happening.

Take a look at Big Boss from Metal Gear Solid (his "villainous" side isn't that well represented in MGS 5, but later games sort of do). The dude had to kill the only love of his life by himself(old spoiler), not to mention that he also had to kill her again (another spoiler), not to mention he also had to take out the one intelligence agency that made him what he was. 

 

Being a villain isn't just about losing one person and wanting to kill everyone, no. Being a villain is about following your own ideals, not caring whether they may be absolutely batshit insane or just completely immoral, you follow what you think is right. Not only that, it changes a person completely. Most of the time, a true villain is mostly scarred for life from various events, not just one, and finally leads to just purely emotional choices, thinking what he/she is doing is right. Starlight Glimmer's villain design was absolutely fantastic, but her execution was absolutely dreadful. If MLP wasn't so age-restricted, and if it could move to even more mature themes... damn. She'd make quite the villain; I can tell Hasbro/whateverwriterworksthere just shoved in the friend thing as something to make it kid friendly... which, I can't blame them, but it makes the whole villain completely bland and boring, not to mention much less relatable. 

 

By relatability, I mean this: If someone came to your house, killed your entire family, left you alone to live by yourself with years of loneliness... and you finally got the chance to have revenge, would you do it?

 

To me, at least, being a villain is purely on what you think is right... whether it may be for emotionally, power-hungry-ly, or even morally, you have to have a reason that supports your completely different... self.

 

Edit: Because I was a little stupid and forgot to put this in

 

When I meant her design was great, I meant that her former self was relatable, friendly... normal. She's not some kind of "evil" god from the underworld, or a "king from darkness" or whatever... She wasn't born to ever be "evil", if that's what you want to call it. This is why I still consider Tirek to not be such a great villain (despite his little conflict was pretty entertaining), yet seeing Starlight Glimmer to be such a wasted opportunity. Every "evil" person in history always starts off normal, just like everyone else. They're not born to be evil, much like you and I are. But, who knows? I could be, or you. It depends on what you want to be, or do.

Edited February 28, 2016 by Looks

[Sidral Mundet 1,666]

Well somebody's got to make up for her getting off completely Scott free in the finale. 

 

But in all seriousness, Starlight Glimmer's redemption was the worst the show has done. And for the reasons so many people here have stated: It was rushed,had no build up, was a complete 180 of the character, the backstory was too weak and petty to try to justify Starlight's views, as well as it's suppose to absolve Starlight of all her wrongdoing, and there were absolutely no consequences of her actions.  

Starlight arguably had the most amount of bad deeds under her belt and we were never suppose to sympathize with her and then BOOM, small petty instant of her losing a single friend and we're suppose to feel all warm and fuzzy for her and then just ignore absolutely everything that she did and be super best friends with her, in less than 10 minutes of air time? No, just no. 

Another thing that I haven't seen people bring up is that, at least to me, it partly ruins a lot of the small time antagonists. I mean why are Suri Polomare, Lightning Dust, The Flim-Flam brother or Rara's manager (do not ask me to spell his name) so irredeemably bad and unforgivable for just being jerks and rude while Starlight, who wants to physically and mentally hurt people deliberately for extremely petty reasons, is somehow perfectly good and just needs love?

[Stasis 39]

Well somebody's got to make up for her getting off completely Scott free in the finale.

 

But in all seriousness, Starlight Glimmer's redemption was the worst the show has done. And for the reasons so many people here have stated: It was rushed,had no build up, was a complete 180 of the character, the backstory was too weak and petty to try to justify Starlight's views, as well as it's suppose to absolve Starlight of all her wrongdoing, and there were absolutely no consequences of her actions.

Starlight arguably had the most amount of bad deeds under her belt and we were never suppose to sympathize with her and then BOOM, small petty instant of her losing a single friend and we're suppose to feel all warm and fuzzy for her and then just ignore absolutely everything that she did and be super best friends with her, in less than 10 minutes of air time? No, just no.

Another thing that I haven't seen people bring up is that, at least to me, it partly ruins a lot of the small time antagonists. I mean why are Suri Polomare, Lightning Dust, The Flim-Flam brother or Rara's manager (do not ask me to spell his name) so irredeemably bad and unforgivable for just being jerks and rude while Starlight, who wants to physically and mentally hurt people deliberately for extremely petty reasons, is somehow perfectly good and just needs love?

Well somebody's got to make up for her getting off completely Scott free in the finale.

 

But in all seriousness, Starlight Glimmer's redemption was the worst the show has done. And for the reasons so many people here have stated: It was rushed,had no build up, was a complete 180 of the character, the backstory was too weak and petty to try to justify Starlight's views, as well as it's suppose to absolve Starlight of all her wrongdoing, and there were absolutely no consequences of her actions.

Starlight arguably had the most amount of bad deeds under her belt and we were never suppose to sympathize with her and then BOOM, small petty instant of her losing a single friend and we're suppose to feel all warm and fuzzy for her and then just ignore absolutely everything that she did and be super best friends with her, in less than 10 minutes of air time? No, just no.

Another thing that I haven't seen people bring up is that, at least to me, it partly ruins a lot of the small time antagonists. I mean why are Suri Polomare, Lightning Dust, The Flim-Flam brother or Rara's manager (do not ask me to spell his name) so irredeemably bad and unforgivable for just being jerks and rude while Starlight, who wants to physically and mentally hurt people deliberately for extremely petty reasons, is somehow perfectly good and just needs love?

According to the episode Starlight was too powerful to ignore so they made her part of her support group. I'm guessing they were afraid of her asspull powers but that kinda sends unfortunate implications in regards to the other antagonists. Edited February 28, 2016 by Stasis

[Unlikeable Pony 2,698]

I'd really want starlight to end up betraying the mane six for good with a "You really are gullible aren't you?!" twist, but the ending of the finale makes me doubt that would happen

[Fawkes The Phoenix 737]

Indeed, I love her character. People usually say she doesn't deserve reformation because she's evil, and that there was no reason whatsoever for her to change her ideology, but I strongly disagree.

 

As a person who has lost his only friend, I can tell you how much that can mess up your mind, the loss itself is pretty hard, but growing up with that pain, and specially being an emotionally immature filly, is worse. She didn't turn out evil though, she wanted to create a world in which no one would get hurt, like she did. People, or in this case, ponies, are complex creatures, not every cult leader has a crazy back story of some tragedy. Starlight came up with the idea, and had the natural talent and intelligence to make it happen, but she lost herself trying to accomplish her objective. That's something that happens in the real world and that doesn't make her evil.

 

Her philosophy consisted of 2 things. First, differences are bad. Second, because no one should be better (or different) than anyone else, then no one is essential or more important than anyone.

 

Now, her entire philosophy was proven wrong in the end of the premiere, then she spent months spying the mane 6, and in all that time she should have realized how their differences made their friendship stronger, and then in the end Twilight made her realize the big impact some ponies could have in the world, not only the mane 6, but her old friend as well, who was the reason she almost destroyed Equestria (without meaning to nor being aware of it). Once again her philosophy had been proven wrong, if that's not a good enough argument for her to reconsider stuff I don't know what is. Once she released her anger and frustration by opening up to Twilight, she was able to finally see things right.

 

I don't get why people want her to be punished for "destroying the world". She didn't intend to do it, and more important, she didn't do it. The only ones that were affected by what she did in the finale were Twilight and Spike.

[That Guy with the CMB 5,872]

Of course they're being too hard on Starlight. Enslaving an entire city, tormenting one of the princesses and nearly destroying the world are all perfectly normal reactions to not having friends in school.

 

 

Starlight is easily mentally ill. Terrible social behavior, manipulative, aggressive, selfish, vengeful, wrathful, and apparently willing to destroy everything because of a loss of one friend, even if it was her only friend.

 

 

Think of it, if somebody was bullied as a kid and they went out to try and destroy other people's lives and relationships because of their own misery, not even caring how much they harm others who weren't even involved (even perhaps killing them?), wouldn't you think, oh, maybe they're ****ing insane? I'm looking forward to someone trying to debate me as to whether this is acceptable behavior.  Let's not that she enslaved an entire village/city/whatever of ponies and forced her personal regime on them, pretty much turning them into soulless, talent-less zombies because of her own insecurity.  Sounds a bit psychopathic to me. It's okay though, let's pray that a speech will make her turn and sing songs with us about how friendship is the way and things will get better while also praying that this mentally unstable quack roaming among us won't impale everyone in the future because she didn't understand the concept of an April Fool's prank. I don't know, maybe I'm examining it too much, but you might as well ask me if people were to hard on Stalin or Hitler.

Edited March 7, 2016 by Eazyfries

[AtomicStone 724]

I'm still a bit dodgy on her myself.. but at the same time I think  that she needs to be given a chance at least until after the season premiere before she should get judged.

[Silver Letter 1,830]

 

 

If a story concept can't be reasonably told using the resources allotted, it should be discarded,

I agree but it's probably not up to the writers.

[Rawzy 1,302]

Alright so um.....Starlight is fucked in the head....that's all I have to say.

 

Funny thing is that she didn't try to get that friend back, she could have easily just gone up to him the next day and been like ayyyyye. Also, she didn't even look happy for her friend when he got his cutiemark, so maybe she wasn't a real friend at all?

 

And ugh....yea.....then she tries to make everyone pity her so that she doesn't wipe equestria out of existence, and then everyone thinks she's a good guy now.....seems suspicious asf.

Edited March 7, 2016 by Rawzy

[Varrack 1,080]

Starlight was doing what she thought was right, by making everyone in her town "equal" so everyone could be happy. While she wasn't in the right, she had good intentions, which is why I think people are too hard on her. The finale was about her seeking revenge, which is a natural impulse so...How can you blame her?