WHAT IF Starlight Glimmer Remained A Villain In MLP?

[YoungJustice12334 51]

In This WHAT IF Scenario for MLP, Starlight Glimmer would be a self-centered, power-hungry lunatic of a unicorn mare with gifted magic and she plans to rid the world of Cutie Marks not because her only friend got his Cutie Mark and moved away to Celestia’s School for Gifted Unicorns like in the original show, but because she was bullied and abused by her peers because she was a clumsy blank flank and a nobody who struggled with her magic abilities. As a filly, she befriended Sunburst who was teased a bit for being a blank flank before Starlight Glimmer came up with an idea where ponies without Cutie Marks would rise up against ponies who have Cutie Marks. Starlight Glimmer believed that Cutie Mark Magic influences ponies to treat blank flanks with prejudice and if she started a cult of her own, then ponies would be better off without Cutie Marks and they would treat each other equally.

When Starlight Glimmer learned to master the ability to magically remove Cutie Marks from the flanks of ponies, which not only strips them of their strength and willpower but also their sanity, she asked Sunburst to help her spread the word of making Equestria a better place without Cutie Marks, but when he refused to say that whatever she’s planning to do is wrong, Sunburst ended his friendship with Starlight because he realized that she was nothing more but a crazy unicorn who bullies other ponies because of their special talents.

Starlight Glimmer got her Cutie Mark for when she tested her ability to strip ponies from their Cutie Marks before she studied magic as well as evil magic for years until she thought about what kind of symbol she could use to replace all Cutie Marks when they’re all separated from their owners. Starlight was fresh out of ideas and she couldn’t think of an original mark of her own that would replace all Cutie Marks. It wasn’t until she magically copied an image of an equal sign before using it to replace her Cutie Mark (which she didn’t like and was ungrateful for it after she got it), and thus Starlight decided to build her own village at a desert where she would start her own cult dedicated to her own version of “equality” where no pony’s Cutie Mark allowed them to feel more superior than blank flanks.

Starlight convinced a couple of ponies that she met to join her in making her own village where they would stay and have their Cutie Marks removed before accepting “equality” as their new special talent, which is being brainwashed and enslaved by the will of Starlight Glimmer and her equal sign which she used to hide her real Cutie Mark. Starlight Glimmer came up with a scheme to spread her philosophy of “equality” and “sameness” without the need for Cutie Mark Magic across the land of Equestria until she could turn it into her own utopia-like state of false happiness. But then she found a book with scripture that said, “If anyone were to claim the Mark of a Princess for oneself, then he or she will become an Alicorn and be worshiped”. Starlight Glimmer then came up with a new scheme that if an Alicorn Princess would come into her village, then she would rob her of her Cutie Mark, claim it for herself and became an all-powerful being with Alicorn Magic before she would take over Equestria, get revenge on those who have wronged her and purge the world of Cutie Marks. She planned to make herself the only pony with a Cutie Mark and special talents so that she can be better and far more superior than others.

When Twilight Sparkle and her friends exposed her true nature in front of her villagers, Starlight Glimmer decided to flee so that she will eventually stalk her enemies and try to claim Twilight’s Cutie Mark for herself in order to transform herself into an Alicorn Princess. When Starlight broke into the Castle of Friendship and held Twilight’s friend's hostage, she forced Twilight Sparkle to surrender her Cutie Mark in exchange for her friends. When Starlight replaced her real Cutie Mark with Twilight’s, she transformed into a demonic Alicorn entity before she wreaked havoc among the citizens of Ponyville. 

Twilight and her friends tried to use the Elements of Harmony against Starlight, but they were no match for her as she shatters them into pieces before causing the Tree of Harmony to break into shards. It wasn’t until Discord came to help Twilight and her friends by telling them that they don’t need to use the Elements of Harmony to save the day because the Magic was inside them the whole time. With their faith restored, Twilight and her friends defeated Starlight and Twilight got her Cutie Mark back then Discord gets Starlight Glimmer arrested for her crimes. Starlight was put on trial before Celestia removed her Cutie Mark and her unicorn magic and she sentenced her to spend the rest of her days in Tartarus with Tirek.

When Twilight told Celestia of Starlight before she broke into the Castle of Friendship, Celestia said that she’s studied forbidden magic before and the ability to strip others of their special talents and identities were considered to be taboo. When Starlight Glimmer got locked away in Tartarus, she became Tirek's Best Cellmate, and both of them start vowing revenge on Twilight and her friends for her downfall. Starlight Glimmer had been locked up with no Cutie Mark, no unicorn magic, no food, no water and no way to survive before something magically teleported her, Tirek, and the other villains of Equestria to the City of Tambelon where they meet the evil boss himself, Emperor Grogar.

Emperor Grogar gives Starlight Glimmer A new Cutie Mark to replace her real Cutie Mark as well as the equal sign she adopted a long time ago which Is Grogar's Mark before promising Starlight Glimmer that she will gain her revenge on The Mane 6 if she agrees to join his league of villains. Starlight Glimmer was intrigued by Grogar's plan and decides to agree to Join Grogar’s League of Villainy before and becomes Grogar's honorary member with Emperor Grogar as the cult leader and Tirek as Grogar’s second-in-command.

[Lucky Bolt 34,914]

She would definitely have turned Equestria into this by now for good:

 

[Sparklefan1234 161,875]

I think if Starlight Glimmer had stayed a villain we (hopefully) would have gotten a better backstory for her evilness than what we ended up with. 

[Rushing cash 824]

During the cutie map I hough she planed to use twilights cutie mark on herself somehow to make herself more powerful. After I watched the season 5 premiere, I wanted starlight to form the "anti-elements", make suri, trixie, LD, F&F and the likes to join her. In the beginning of the season 5 finale before she reveled her plan I though she would go back in time to change the past so she would become the alicorn. They could have made her a more complex and overall eviler antagonist, but she still was one of the more competent villains and actually managed to corner twilight, twilight had to convince starlight to change her ways because she otherwise couldn't stop her.  

[YoungJustice12334 51]

1 hour ago, Rushing cash said:

During the cutie map I hough she planed to use twilights cutie mark on herself somehow to make herself more powerful. After I watched the season 5 premiere, I wanted starlight to form the "anti-elements", make suri, trixie, LD, F&F and the likes to join her. In the beginning of the season 5 finale before she reveled her plan I though she would go back in time to change the past so she would become the alicorn. They could have made her a more complex and overall eviler antagonist, but she still was one of the more competent villains and actually managed to corner twilight, twilight had to convince starlight to change her ways because she otherwise couldn't stop her.  

Now I know many People and You and I have different opinions on Starlight, but looking back at her evil actions, I honestly think her redemption wasn't needed and was a terrible decision by the writers. Starlight was cult leader and took over the mane 6 and other ponies minds. In my opinion, she's darker than Tirek because of just that fact. No other villain in the show is equal to her power. Where Discord and Tirek only took away strengths and one's right mind, she takes away a pony's entire purpose. A cutie mark is a special thing a pony earns once they've discovered who they truly are and what makes them, themselves.

That talent is then, in turn, weaved into their very DNA and exposed in the form of a cutie mark, literally becoming a part of who they are. This is why the Six experienced such excruciating pain when their cutie marks were taken; it's like someone ripping your very soul out. Now if that ain't dark for a show like MLP, then I don't know what is. And what further pisses me off is the fact that once Starlight became "reformed", the ones in the village she ran were so quick and easy to forgive her. Well I'm sorry, but if someone ripped MY cutie mark off to take away MY talent, ain't no way in Hell I'm gonna forgive that person. I hate how she's easily forgiven for her actions.

For example, Sell your bestie's cart? Just say sorry...

Turn an isolated Village into your own cult? Just say sorry...

Stalk The Princess of Equestria until you go back in time to stop their friends from finding their special talents and almost doom Equestria? Just Say Sorry...Dear God. 

The Mane 6 being too much of a forgiving group isn't ok. Starlight deserved to be punished for everything she did to the Mane 6 in the equality Village. I still hated how starlight simply gets away with her evil actions with A simple apology. So In my mind, after her terrible redemption she was still manipulative and sometimes her old self.

[KH7672 1,604]

8 hours ago, YoungJustice12334 said:

Well I'm sorry, but if someone ripped MY cutie mark off to take away MY talent, ain't no way in Hell I'm gonna forgive that person. I hate how she's easily forgiven for her actions.

For example, Sell your bestie's cart? Just say sorry...

Turn an isolated Village into your own cult? Just say sorry...

Stalk The Princess of Equestria until you go back in time to stop their friends from finding their special talents and almost doom Equestria? Just Say Sorry...Dear God. 

The Mane 6 being too much of a forgiving group isn't ok. Starlight deserved to be punished for everything she did to the Mane 6 in the equality Village. I still hated how starlight simply gets away with her evil actions with A simple apology. So In my mind, after her terrible redemption she was still manipulative and sometimes her old self.

I would like to point out this section on something that is touched upon by one of the arguments against Starlight being that she teaches you you just have to apologize and everything works out okay and I disagree as it undermines and important distinction in every situation she does so is that she never apologizes simply because she thinks it's all it will take to make up for the situation.

The village- She apologizes but doesn't expect to be forgiven as she lowers herself and provides the chance for the villagers to react to her arrival and not influence it with how she thinks they should feel.

The finale- She apologizes and verbally says she is ready to accept any punishment that they'll give her.

The mind control- Apologizes with simply stating her understanding of what she did was wrong, and that she hopes in time she can make it up. Nothing else. No shifting blame on Twilight's lessons, no trying to justify her actions, no expecting of an apology or even penance for the time as she was fully ready to commit to cleaning the mess herself.

The cutie mark switch- A quick apology but more in a way of easing the situation and explaining herself as she believes what she did was right and wanted to see if she can convince the royal sisters to see her solution through.

The Maulwarf- Initially confesses straight up to Thorax of her rash plan. And then less apologizes but more appropriates the situation to take responsibility for the mess she may have caused, because granted nothing had happened yet.

The Discord Banishment- Apologizes not just with words but with compassion and understanding for his perspective and even critiquing her own in the way it was too narrowminded and offers him a compromise in positions.

and finally the cart (which is personally my favorite moment of disillusionment from her)- A lot of this comes down to how she views their relationship in as such how strong she believes their friendship to be that she can make decisions for the both of them and she is rightfully knock down from this position. She can't justify anything because Trixie proves there is nothing to justify. Instead it has to all come from Starlight and how she needs to remedy the situation herself. And she does that by first returning the cart and admitting why what she did was wrong and just like the mind control, nothing further else needs to be said from her side. She knows she is in the lower position, Trixie has had the high ground the entire and there is no reason to argue the semantics. Instead after admitting her fault she takes it upon herself to negotiate the trade back. It's also worth noting Starlight doesn't formally apologize until after they return back because it does show there may have been time to let emotions settle before recompense. She's not doing it to make Trixie forgive her more, but to show genuine regret for ruining the trip.

All of this essentially is just to explain that Starlight herself as a character handles apologies with the proper context and displaying where the motivation for such needs to come from. I want to point out how this aspect of her character does work in the context of the situation and theming of the show.

Now the reaction of those receiving the apology is a different issue and one that has to do more with how you feel the characters should react and I'm not one to encroach on that subject as I do have my explanations but feeling content with each execution is different for every viewer based on your own expectations of the show of which I already can tell we differ.

[Rushing cash 824]

17 hours ago, YoungJustice12334 said:

The Mane 6 being too much of a forgiving group isn't ok. Starlight deserved to be punished for everything she did to the Mane 6 in the equality Village. I still hated how starlight simply gets away with her evil actions with A simple apology. So In my mind, after her terrible redemption she was still manipulative and sometimes her old self.

I do agree that the post reformation part felt rushed(the song was unnecessary IMO and actually hurt her redemption by showing how quickly everyone forgave her), and I actually glad she stayed manipulative(less than before her heel face turn but more manipulative than the majority of the characters) and kept messing things up once in a while. 

As for redeeming her at all, I do agree she could have made an amazing villain for a longer period of time or if twilight had to resort to more dangerous and harming means to stop her, but what we got is what we got and I think its really good(there is always fanfiction if you want to see how things could have gone differently).

[Dark Qiviut 22,173]

On 5/5/2020 at 6:29 PM, YoungJustice12334 said:

For example, Sell your bestie's cart? Just say sorry...

Starlight and Trixie were having major problems with the road trip in large part due to her wagon being more cramped than a studio apartment. Trixie told Hoo’Far no trade, but not Starlight. Was she wrong to do it without asking? Absolutely. The story made it very clear how she was to do it. But it wasn’t done with ulterior motives.

On 5/5/2020 at 6:29 PM, YoungJustice12334 said:

Starlight deserved to be punished for everything she did to the Mane 6 in the equality Village.

She deserves it if she doesn’t feel any remorse. But once she saw the timeline she disturbed in the form of that wasteland, she was really shaken up. Lusting for revenge, she created collateral damage. The only way to truly make it right was for Twilight to get Starlight to accept her help and let Rainbow Dash finish her Rainboom.

As tempting as it can be to pound the keyboard and sentence the antagonist or villain to some hard time, sometimes punishment isn’t the justified solution. For Cutie Re-Mark, it wasn’t.

On 5/5/2020 at 6:29 PM, YoungJustice12334 said:

So In my mind, after her terrible redemption she was still manipulative and sometimes her old self.

I argue this makes her one of the better reformations. Rather than make the Rainbow Lasers change them, Starlight chose to do it herself. At times, she messed up, and sometimes the regret goes beyond our own expectations (look no further than Starlight’s self-inflicted nightmare from Royal Problem). But didn’t she work her tail off to repair the damage she caused and become a genuinely better pony? One million percent.

[Awkward Segway 301]

21 minutes ago, Dark Qiviut said:

But didn’t she work her tail off to repair the damage she caused and become a genuinely better pony?

When did she do that? I remember Sunset working hard to earn everyone's forgiveness in Rainbow Rocks, but Starlight got instant forgiveness from everyone who knew what she did, and then went on to feel sorry for herself all the time (in season six).

Edit: And further, I seem to remember Starlight avoiding doing the lessons Twilight had for her. She tried to get out of reconnecting with Sunburst, treated herself with a trip to the spa after casting a spell on Big Mac to make him talk, and cast that spell on the Mane Six (minus Twilight) to get out of actually having to spend time with them.

In contrast, the first thing we see Sunset do in Rainbow Rocks (after seeing the front of the school fully repaired, which she was repairing at the end of the first Equestria Girls) was offer to help the CMCs with their poster. Then we find out that she volunteered to show new students around the school. In short, she was actively trying to change her image, whereas Starlight was just feeling sorry for herself (which she had no right to do because she was 100% responsible for the situation she was in at that point).

Edited May 7, 2020 by Awkward Segway
Elaborated

[Madame Rarity 577]

She would plan to take over the world.

[Misty Shadow 7,085]

If we were to ever explore alternate universes where the villains win again, that would be really interesting to see. I do feel though that Starlight being redeemed was essential to the show, as Chrysalis would never have been defeated and Stygian would have never been redeemed otherwise. 

[Dark Qiviut 22,173]

56 minutes ago, Awkward Segway said:

When did she do that?

• Assigned to reunite with Sunburst, and despite difficulties at first, was able to be on the same page as he, who had trouble in school for not being so magically skilled.
• Became friends with Trixie, because they shared something in common: wanting to repair for the mistakes they made. Despite trying times both in and after No Second Prances, they were able to maintain it.
• Even though the villagers forgave her, she never fully reconnected with them until To Where, where she had to muster up the courage to take part in the Sunset Festival. Couldn’t do the first time, got to do it after she lead a successful rescue mission into the Changeling Kingdom.
• When her friends and Royal Family were kidnapped, had to lead a four-man army of misfits (herself included) to rescue them all and successfully reformed both the Changelings and their kingdom.
• During the offseason, she successfully passed all her friendship missions and, had Starlight not interrupt, was about to go out on her own.
• While Pinkie thinks she understands Maud, she understood her from the surface. Starlight and Maud became friends because when Maud explained why she felt comfortable around rocks, Starlight listened, understood, and empathized with her. Maud opened herself up to Starlight because she believed SG wouldn’t judge her for it.
• The RM7, Sunburst, and the Pillars prepare to battle the Pony of Shadows. However, because the Map called our heroes, it made her suspect that there was more to it than leads the eye. Starlight communicated with Starswirl’s fellow pillars, then got told by SS himself that Stygian was irredeemable, but she trusted her gut, got vindicated, and they all rescued Stygian from the Pony of Shadows. Her own experience as a villain and trust in her own instincts helped the Pillars reunite with Stygian.

Her time with Twilight helped build trust between them, earning her the position of School Counselor. After Neighsay closed it in part due to non-Pony citizens being invited, Starlight used her own regrown self-confidence and judgment to help Twi defy Neighsay’s xenophobia and reopen it.

[Awkward Segway 301]

32 minutes ago, Dark Qiviut said:

• During the offseason, she successfully passed all her friendship missions

Fair enough for most of your response, but when was this ever said? It seemed heavily implied that the season 7 premiere took place shortly after the season 6 finale. She was "graduating" because of her actions in the season 6 finale.

[Dark Qiviut 22,173]

1 hour ago, Awkward Segway said:

Fair enough for most of your response, but when was this ever said? It seemed heavily implied that the season 7 premiere took place shortly after the season 6 finale. She was "graduating" because of her actions in the season 6 finale.

Yeah, I bungled here. Starlight and friends got awarded medals and a party for saving Equestria, but Discord made Twilight believe she didn't prepare Starlight for what came next; the fact that she mastered many friendship lessons already didn't help her cause. Her decision to graduate Starlight resolved the dilemma that Discord suddenly imposed on her.

[Cirrus. 1,088]

If Starlight had remained a villain, hopefully this...

 

Seriously though, her and Discord are my two favorite villains in the show.

I majored in criminal justice so Starlight and her issues stood out immediately to me.

The aspect of what makes criminals "tick", (what could be wrong with them and other factors/events that cause criminal behavior) was something I've always found interesting.

Based on what I learned from those classes, Starlight seems to maybe have some degree of Borderline Personality Disorder. She also has shown some Sociopathic tendencies.

 

Borderline Personality Disorder-

• "Symptoms can be triggered by seemingly ordinary events.People with borderline personality disorder may become angry and distressed over minor separations from people to whom they feel close" (nih.gov)
• Inappropriate, intense anger or problems controlling anger
• Difficulty trusting- (aka brainwashing room)
• "Their opinions of other people can also change quickly. An individual who is seen as a friend one day may be considered an enemy or traitor the next." (nih.gov)
• People with BPD often engage in idealization and devaluation of others, alternating between high positive regard for people and great disappointment in them.

 

• marked sensitivity to criticism...

 

Sociopathic Tendencies-

• weaker conscience
• weaker empathy
• self serving/manipulative.
• blame people and/or makes excuses for behavior (i.e cutie marks ARE THE DEVIL)

 

Starlight really did have to WANT to change and actively keep in control of herself. What I like is that even after her reformation, some of her "issues" still popped up from time to time.

Edited May 8, 2020 by Cirrus.

[YoungJustice12334 51]

On 5/7/2020 at 5:59 PM, Dark Qiviut said:

Starlight and Trixie were having major problems with the road trip in large part due to her wagon being more cramped than a studio apartment. Trixie told Hoo’Far no trade, but not Starlight. Was she wrong to do it without asking? Absolutely. The story made it very clear how she was to do it. But it wasn’t done with ulterior motives.

She deserves it if she doesn’t feel any remorse. But once she saw the timeline she disturbed in the form of that wasteland, she was really shaken up. Lusting for revenge, she created collateral damage. The only way to truly make it right was for Twilight to get Starlight to accept her help and let Rainbow Dash finish her Rainboom.

As tempting as it can be to pound the keyboard and sentence the antagonist or villain to some hard time, sometimes punishment isn’t the justified solution. For Cutie Re-Mark, it wasn’t.

I argue this makes her one of the better reformations. Rather than make the Rainbow Lasers change them, Starlight chose to do it herself. At times, she messed up, and sometimes the regret goes beyond our own expectations (look no further than Starlight’s self-inflicted nightmare from Royal Problem). But didn’t she work her tail off to repair the damage she caused and become a genuinely better pony? One million percent.

I think Starlight started off fine with her cunning, manipulative attitude playing well against Twilight in their struggle for power-up until the whole time travel arc In The Cutie Re-Mark Part 1&2...but after being offered unconditional friendship & forgiveness, following a really lame backstory to explain all her "villainy"...basically, it just being that she was salty that her childhood friend got his cutie mark first and moved away, just went way off the rails for Starlight's development. Her character now consisted of being some OP goodie-two-shoes who pretty much stole Twilight's role now as the "snarky nerd" of the group, having most of her past villainy being played off either as half-hearted jokes or just brushed off entirely without so much as a little comeuppance for said acts, save for some self-pity phases that pretty much do nothing but guilt-trip the audience into feeling sorry for her, and just the way she keeps hogging up the spotlight in stories that honestly don't really need her there, like seriously, wouldn't Twilight have suited her role in "A Royal Problem" much better?

Not only due to her actually sharing a legit bond with bond princesses but for her own name meaning "a balance between night and day? just leaves me all the more disinterested in her character overall. I really wanted to like Starlight, really I did...but ultimately she just failed to appeal to me in the long run, I'm afraid As for Trixie, I absolutely hate her, and she gets super grating to me as the show progressed, I also find her to be pretty annoying.

How can anyone like the character? She's always talking in third person and saying how "Great and Powerful" she is. She's also a cheater and a bragger! The Great and Powerful Trixie? Pfft. More like the Arrogant and Unbearable Trixie. It's already bad enough we had to have that egomaniac shoved down our throats, but once she came back and befriended Starlight, Trixie to me was the same old annoying pain in the ass who never seemed to learn her lesson. And hell, even with Starlight in question they just seem to keep bringing out the worst in each other the more they get any spotlight together...so like, WHY are they even friends, anyway? If I was Twilight, I wouldn't be able to tolerate an annoying smug-ass like Trixie myself.

Sunset Shimmer was a better example of A Redeemed villain because she worked hard to earn everyone's forgiveness in Rainbow Rocks, but Starlight got instant forgiveness from everyone who knew what she did to them, and then went on to feel sorry for herself all the time during season six. I seem to remember Starlight avoiding doing the lessons Twilight had for her. She tried to get out of reconnecting with Sunburst, treated herself with a trip to the spa after casting a spell on Big Mac to make him talk, and cast that spell on the Mane Six, for the exception of Twilight, to get out of actually having to spend time with them.

In contrast, the first thing we see Sunset do in Rainbow Rocks, after seeing the front of the school fully repaired, which she was repairing at the end of the first Equestria Girls, was offering  to help the CMCs with their poster. Then we find out that she volunteered to show new students around the school. In short, she was actively trying to change her image, whereas Starlight was just feeling sorry for herself, which she had no right to do because she was 100% responsible for the situation she was in at that point.

I'm not saying MLP Should be dark or grim, but One of the biggest problems with the 2017 movie is how thoroughly it pushes the idea that friendship can fix any problem, when in reality that's not how it works and that in many circumstances Friendship isn't the end-all solution to everything and every villain.

So many and too many of the villains often get made sympathetic and are quick to be shoddily reformed with nary a second thought to give them consequences to their wrongdoings.

I'm not saying sympathetic villains aren't good, they can be very good, but you have to know HOW TO MAKE THEM WORK! And Starlight's redemption never really worked for me for those reasons I just stated. Sure, she may sometimes improve a little more depending on who she's interacting with mostly Trixie, Spike and sometimes Sunburst but still, even that alone can't save her from being a badly-executed redeemed villain cliche that really overstayed her welcome in the MLP Show.

The absolute worst thing about the trope of redeeming villains In MLP, and I started having this issue when Starlight Glimmer was redeemed, is that it takes the responsibility away from the bad guy's actions. It basically tells the audience that it's not okay to be angry at someone who's hurt you and your friends and it's your responsibility to make them better people. 

The problem is not the idea of villains being redeemed, it's just the way MLP Started doing it.

The worst example of this to me was Wallflower Blush, who created her own problem, done psychological torture on somebody who had nothing to do with it, does no effort to make her situation better, but still gets her happy ending free of charge. Wallflower's motivation was entirely selfish, spiteful, childish, envious. And born of simple hatred. What's even more, it would appear that she was the cause of it all. She complained of people forgetting her, yet it was her own fault that people did not remember.

I mean, sure, Redemption is a good lesson to teach sometimes and that there are always two sides to a story and that compassion can go a long way but when you start telling the victims that it's their responsibility to fix their abusers and being Angry for their actions towards them in any way is bad, it's just an unacceptable lesson to teach.

[Pandora 38,004]

Her story was kind of too lame for her to stay a villain tbh 

[YoungJustice12334 51]

5 minutes ago, Deerie said:

Her story was kind of too lame for her to stay a villain tbh 

I see, but this Is a rewritten version of her Backstory and motivation. What do you think of my version? You should reread it.

On 5/8/2020 at 5:57 AM, Cirrus. said:

If Starlight had remained a villain, hopefully this...

 

Seriously though, her and Discord are my two favorite villains in the show.

I majored in criminal justice so Starlight and her issues stood out immediately to me.

The aspect of what makes criminals "tick", (what could be wrong with them and other factors/events that cause criminal behavior) was something I've always found interesting.

Based on what I learned from those classes, Starlight seems to maybe have some degree of Borderline Personality Disorder. She also has shown some Sociopathic tendencies.

 

Borderline Personality Disorder-

• "Symptoms can be triggered by seemingly ordinary events.People with borderline personality disorder may become angry and distressed over minor separations from people to whom they feel close" (nih.gov)
• Inappropriate, intense anger or problems controlling anger
• Difficulty trusting- (aka brainwashing room)
• "Their opinions of other people can also change quickly. An individual who is seen as a friend one day may be considered an enemy or traitor the next." (nih.gov)
• People with BPD often engage in idealization and devaluation of others, alternating between high positive regard for people and great disappointment in them.

 

• marked sensitivity to criticism...

 

Sociopathic Tendencies-

• weaker conscience
• weaker empathy
• self serving/manipulative.
• blame people and/or makes excuses for behavior (i.e cutie marks ARE THE DEVIL)

 

Starlight really did have to WANT to change and actively keep in control of herself. What I like is that even after her reformation, some of her "issues" still popped up from time to time.

I think Starlight started off fine with her cunning, manipulative attitude playing well against Twilight in their struggle for power-up until the whole time travel arc In The Cutie Re-Mark Part 1&2...but after being offered unconditional friendship & forgiveness, following a really lame backstory to explain all her "villainy"...basically, it just being that she was salty that her childhood friend got his cutie mark first and moved away, just went way off the rails for Starlight's development. Her character now consisted of being some OP goodie-two-shoes who pretty much stole Twilight's role now as the "snarky nerd" of the group, having most of her past villainy being played off either as half-hearted jokes or just brushed off entirely without so much as a little comeuppance for her evil acts, save for some self-pity phases that pretty much do nothing but guilt-trip the audience into feeling sorry for her, and just the way she keeps hogging up the spotlight in stories that honestly don't really need her there, like seriously, wouldn't Twilight have suited her role in "A Royal Problem" much better?

Not only due to her actually sharing a legit bond with bond princesses but for her own name meaning "a balance between night and day? just leaves me all the more disinterested in her character overall. I really wanted to like Starlight, really I did...but ultimately she just failed to appeal to me in the long run, I'm afraid As for Trixie, I absolutely hate her, and she gets super grating to me as the show progressed, I also find her to be pretty annoying.

How can anyone like the character? She's always talking in third person and saying how "Great and Powerful" she is. She's also a cheater and a bragger! The Great and Powerful Trixie? Pfft. More like the Arrogant and Unbearable Trixie. It's already bad enough we had to have that egomaniac shoved down our throats, but once she came back and befriended Starlight, Trixie to me was the same old annoying pain in the ass who never seemed to learn her lesson. And hell, even with Starlight in question they just seem to keep bringing out the worst in each other the more they get any spotlight together...so like, WHY are they even friends, anyway? If I was Twilight, I wouldn't be able to tolerate an annoying smug-ass like Trixie myself.

Sunset Shimmer was a better example of A Redeemed villain because she worked hard to earn everyone's forgiveness in Rainbow Rocks, but Starlight got instant forgiveness from everyone who knew what she did to them, and then went on to feel sorry for herself all the time during season six. I seem to remember Starlight avoiding doing the lessons Twilight had for her. She tried to get out of reconnecting with Sunburst, treated herself with a trip to the spa after casting a spell on Big Mac to make him talk, and cast that spell on the Mane Six, for the exception of Twilight, to get out of actually having to spend time with them.

In contrast, the first thing we see Sunset do in Rainbow Rocks, after seeing the front of the school fully repaired, which she was repairing at the end of the first Equestria Girls, was offering  to help the CMCs with their poster. Then we find out that she volunteered to show new students around the school. In short, she was actively trying to change her image, whereas Starlight was just feeling sorry for herself, which she had no right to do because she was 100% responsible for the situation she was in at that point.

I'm not saying MLP Should be dark or grim, but One of the biggest problems with the 2017 movie is how thoroughly it pushes the idea that friendship can fix any problem, when in reality that's not how it works and that in many circumstances Friendship isn't the end-all solution to everything and every villain. So many and too many of the villains often get made sympathetic and are quick to be shoddily reformed with nary a second thought to give them consequences to their wrongdoings.

I'm not saying sympathetic villains aren't good, they can be very good, but you have to know HOW TO MAKE THEM WORK! And Starlight's redemption never really worked for me for those reasons I just stated. Sure, she may sometimes improve a little more depending on who she's interacting with mostly Trixie, Spike and sometimes Sunburst but still, even that alone can't save her from being a badly-executed redeemed villain cliche that really overstayed her welcome in the MLP Show.

The absolute worst thing about the trope of redeeming villains In MLP, and I started having this issue when Starlight Glimmer was redeemed, is that it takes the responsibility away from the bad guy's actions. It basically tells the audience that it's not okay to be angry at someone who's hurt you and your friends and it's your responsibility to make them better people. 

The problem is not the idea of villains being redeemed, it's just the way MLP Started doing it.

The worst example of this to me was Wallflower Blush, who created her own problem, done psychological torture on Sunset Shimmer who had nothing to do with it, does no effort to make her situation better, but still gets her happy ending free of charge. Wallflower's motivation was entirely selfish, spiteful, childish, envious. And born of simple hatred. What's even more, it would appear that she was the cause of it all. She complained of people forgetting her, yet it was her own fault that people did not remember.

I mean, sure, Redemption is a good lesson to teach sometimes and that there are always two sides to a story and that compassion can go a long way but when you start telling the victims that it's their responsibility to fix their abusers and being Angry for their actions towards them in any way is bad, it's just an unacceptable lesson to teach.

On 5/4/2020 at 8:41 PM, Sparklefan1234 said:

I think if Starlight Glimmer had stayed a villain we (hopefully) would have gotten a better backstory for her evilness than what we ended up with. 

That's true, but what do you think of my rewritten version of her motivation and backstory compared to what we originally got. I'm not a fan of Starlight's redemption honestly.

[Dark Qiviut 22,173]

2 hours ago, YoungJustice12334 said:

1&2...but after being offered unconditional friendship & forgiveness, following a really lame backstory to explain all her "villainy"...basically, it just being that she was salty that her childhood friend got his cutie mark first and moved away,

You’re viewing Starlight’s reasons shallowly. Sunburst was not just her closest friend, but her only friend, and we’re friends for a while. Then, during some freak accident, God gave him a mark, causing a town celebration that sent him away. Circumstances beyond her control caused the divide. Recall how she never blamed anyone but the cutie mark magic. Cutie marks were a trauma trigger. As an adult, it looks ”ridiculous,” quoting TS, but as a child, that pain can warp your worldview for the rest of your life.

Twilight was sensitive to her pain, as any respectable leader should. Instead of bellowing about how her pain doesn’t matter, she treated her as an equal. Starlight had the upper hand and the choice whether to believe her or destroy the scroll. That hoof from Twilight was comfort, an offer to heal lifelong wounds. She accepted.

2 hours ago, YoungJustice12334 said:

Her character now consisted of being some OP goodie-two-shoes who pretty much stole Twilight's role now as the "snarky nerd" of the group

Starlight’s her own character. Despite sharing that snarky ‘tude at times, she’s also blunt, complacent, doesn’t think of the consequences, and has a terrible temper. Yes, her magic and knowledge of magic are otherworldly, but her temper problem, difficulty with impulse, a decency on magic, and major issues with uncertainty greatly affected the conflict, her personal relationships, and her own behavior.

2 hours ago, YoungJustice12334 said:

How can anyone like the character?

Trixie is consistently charismatic. She hams herself up so much that her arrogance becomes very appealing. Nevertheless, she cares for Starlight a lot (and stood up for Gallus to Grandpa Gruff).

2 hours ago, YoungJustice12334 said:

If I was Twilight, I wouldn't be able to tolerate an annoying smug-ass like Trixie myself.

Twilight doesn’t have to like her, but after openly forgiving her for her villainy, she had no reason to immediately suspect that TGAP Trixie was up to no good. Claiming to trust Starlight, she tried to sabotage her attempts to befriend Trixie throughout, artificially causing more problems.

[Cirrus. 1,088]

3 hours ago, YoungJustice12334 said:

How can anyone like the character? She's always talking in third person and saying how "Great and Powerful" she is. She's also a cheater and a bragger! The Great and Powerful Trixie?

 

 

How can you not? She's such an amusing adorable moron!

I didn't like her earlier in the show but she definitely grew on me.

[YoungJustice12334 51]

5 hours ago, Cirrus. said:

 

 

How can you not? She's such an amusing adorable moron!

I didn't like her earlier in the show but she definitely grew on me.

If you like her, that's fine, but Trixie never grew on me, nor did Starlight. Starlight really did have to WANT to change and actively keep in control of herself. What I like is that even after her reformation, some of her "issues" still popped up from time to time.

I think Starlight started off fine with her cunning, manipulative attitude playing well against Twilight in their struggle for power-up until the whole time travel arc In The Cutie Re-Mark Part 1&2...but after being offered unconditional friendship & forgiveness, following a really lame backstory to explain all her "villainy"...basically, it just being that she was salty that her childhood friend got his cutie mark first and moved away, just went way off the rails for Starlight's development. Her character now consisted of being some OP goodie-two-shoes who pretty much stole Twilight's role now as the "snarky nerd" of the group, having most of her past villainy being played off either as half-hearted jokes or just brushed off entirely without so much as a little comeuppance for her evil acts, save for some self-pity phases that pretty much do nothing but guilt-trip the audience into feeling sorry for her, and just the way she keeps hogging up the spotlight in stories that honestly don't really need her there, like seriously, wouldn't Twilight have suited her role in "A Royal Problem" much better?

Not only due to her actually sharing a legit bond with bond princesses but for her own name meaning "a balance between night and day? just leaves me all the more disinterested in her character overall. I really wanted to like Starlight, really I did...but ultimately she just failed to appeal to me in the long run, I'm afraid As for Trixie, I absolutely hate her, and she gets super grating to me as the show progressed, I also find her to be pretty annoying.

She's always talking in third person and saying how "Great and Powerful" she is. She's also a cheater and a bragger! The Great and Powerful Trixie? Pfft. More like the Arrogant and Unbearable Trixie. It's already bad enough we had to have that egomaniac shoved down our throats, but once she came back and befriended Starlight, Trixie to me was the same old annoying pain in the ass who never seemed to learn her lesson. And hell, even with Starlight in question they just seem to keep bringing out the worst in each other the more they get any spotlight together...so like, WHY are they even friends, anyway? If I was Twilight, I wouldn't tolerate or forgive an annoying smug-ass like Trixie myself. To me, She's nothing more than A Egomaniac.

The episode 'No Second Prances' didn't make her any better either, and I honestly thought she was faking her redemption. 

Sunset Shimmer was a better example of A Redeemed villain because she worked hard to earn everyone's forgiveness in Rainbow Rocks, but Starlight got instant forgiveness from everyone who knew what she did to them, and then went on to feel sorry for herself all the time during season six. I seem to remember Starlight avoiding doing the lessons Twilight had for her. She tried to get out of reconnecting with Sunburst, treated herself with a trip to the spa after casting a spell on Big Mac to make him talk, and cast that spell on the Mane Six, for the exception of Twilight, to get out of actually having to spend time with them.

In contrast, the first thing we see Sunset do in Rainbow Rocks, after seeing the front of the school fully repaired, which she was repairing at the end of the first Equestria Girls, was offering  to help the CMCs with their poster. Then we find out that she volunteered to show new students around the school. In short, she was actively trying to change her image, whereas Starlight was just feeling sorry for herself, which she had no right to do because she was 100% responsible for the situation she was in at that point.

I'm not saying MLP Should be dark or grim, but One of the biggest problems with the 2017 movie is how thoroughly it pushes the idea that friendship can fix any problem, when in reality that's not how it works and that in many circumstances Friendship isn't the end-all solution to everything and every villain. So many and too many of the villains often get made sympathetic and are quick to be shoddily reformed with nary a second thought to give them consequences to their wrongdoings.

I'm not saying sympathetic villains aren't good, they can be very good, but you have to know HOW TO MAKE THEM WORK! And Starlight's redemption never really worked for me for those reasons I just stated. Sure, she may sometimes improve a little more depending on who she's interacting with mostly Trixie, Spike and sometimes Sunburst but still, even that alone can't save her from being a badly-executed redeemed villain cliche that really overstayed her welcome in the MLP Show.

[Cirrus. 1,088]

 

10 hours ago, YoungJustice12334 said:

but after being offered unconditional friendship & forgiveness, following a really lame backstory to explain all her "villainy"...basically, it just being that she was salty that her childhood friend got his cutie mark first and moved away, just went way off the rails for Starlight's development. Her character now consisted of being some OP goodie-two-shoes who pretty much stole Twilight's role now as the "snarky nerd" of the group, having most of her past villainy being played off either as half-hearted jokes or just brushed off entirely without so much as a little comeuppance for her evil acts

Oh I totally agree that her backstory was rushed/crammed in the writing department, probably due to time in the episode and time for the writers to work on it. One thing to not lose sight of is that it is TV-Y. I was so surprised a character like her (and her town) was even is in this show! 

In all seriousness though I definitely think Starlight shows traits of borderline personality disorder. Stupid stuff that seems "lame" or trivial to a NORMAL person can REALLY and i mean REALLY set them off. When I was just starting High School one of my Sister's friends Mom actually had borderline personality disorder.

One time my sister was talking to her friend on the phone and her mom just randomly picked another phone in their house. My sister had me listen with her to her friend's mom and how she was. We just listened like WTF!?!  She was very manipulative/demeaning along with many of the other traits in my earlier post but much nastier than Starlight. These people in real life CAN BE very scary. Shortly after she mainly lived with her Dad.

 

10 hours ago, YoungJustice12334 said:

As for Trixie, I absolutely hate her, and she gets super grating to me as the show progressed, I also find her to be pretty annoying. She's always talking in third person and saying how "Great and Powerful" she is. She's also a cheater and a bragger! The Great and Powerful Trixie? Pfft. More like the Arrogant and Unbearable Trixie. It's already bad enough we had to have that egomaniac shoved down our throats, but once she came back and befriended Starlight, Trixie to me was the same old annoying pain in the ass who never seemed to learn her lesson. And hell, even with Starlight in question they just seem to keep bringing out the worst in each other the more they get any spotlight together...so like, WHY are they even friends, anyway?

LOL! I'm sorry you dislike her so much. Oh believe me, I don't think her personality is good. She really didn't bother me though,as she's pretty much just full of hot air. I mainly just like that she's in the show much like the way Discord likes throwing a wrench in things. I find it amusing when the other characters have to deal with her. When Trixie showed up I was always like "What's she gonna do/mess up this time?"

When Starlight and Trixie first met in the spa I was like OH NO!!!.... I MEAN OH YES!!!!!

 

As for a character that I really dislike...

I just want to KICK THAT FRICK'N SQUEAK TOY!!!!!

I don't know why she pisses me off as much as she does. It's just a cartoon character

Edited May 12, 2020 by Cirrus.

[YoungJustice12334 51]

On 5/7/2020 at 5:59 PM, Dark Qiviut said:

Starlight and Trixie were having major problems with the road trip in large part due to her wagon being more cramped than a studio apartment. Trixie told Hoo’Far no trade, but not Starlight. Was she wrong to do it without asking? Absolutely. The story made it very clear how she was to do it. But it wasn’t done with ulterior motives.

She deserves it if she doesn’t feel any remorse. But once she saw the timeline she disturbed in the form of that wasteland, she was really shaken up. Lusting for revenge, she created collateral damage. The only way to truly make it right was for Twilight to get Starlight to accept her help and let Rainbow Dash finish her Rainboom.

As tempting as it can be to pound the keyboard and sentence the antagonist or villain to some hard time, sometimes punishment isn’t the justified solution. For Cutie Re-Mark, it wasn’t.

I argue this makes her one of the better reformations. Rather than make the Rainbow Lasers change them, Starlight chose to do it herself. At times, she messed up, and sometimes the regret goes beyond our own expectations (look no further than Starlight’s self-inflicted nightmare from Royal Problem). But didn’t she work her tail off to repair the damage she caused and become a genuinely better pony? One million percent.

I respect your opinion, but I honestly can't agree with it. Starlight Glimmer, to me, was Not a good redemption-story kind of antagonist we needed and her actions were not deserving of redemption because She literally brainwashed other Ponies & The Mane 6 & forced them to give up their identities to try and take over Equestria. Sunset's redemption was more believable since the second EQG movie showed Students of Canterlot High's distrust to her, especially when the Sirens came into play but earned her right to be accepted in the end.

Yeah, nopony really knew about Starlight's rebellion but messing with Time Travel to alter the timeline seems like a huge crime to overlook and forget like it happened. In my opinion, Starlight Glimmer could've been a good counterpoint to Twilight in terms of ideals As A Villain. I did love the idea Of Two mares with opposing views on leadership and friendship would've been an interesting concept for the series but unfortunately her terrible redemption ruined it.

[Splashee 28,537]

She would spread the message of equality to all ponies across Equestria. And I for one think that would be okay.

[ExplosionMare 18,007]

Then EVERYPONY would be equal