Alicorn Ascension in G5

[ShadOBabe 18,984]

29 minutes ago, CloudMistDragon said:

And they needed to abdicate their position to an alicorn, or else they might have had to step back in again when the new ruler died of old age. Either way, someone's stuck ruling the kingdom for a long time. Wouldn't you get bored of ruling a kingdom for so long and want to move on eventually? 

You know they could have abdicated to a governing body of some sort if they really had to. But they had Twilight. Still not quite sure why you think they’d be bound for all eternity when really it just comes down to how much they’re willing to put up with.

[Jesse Terrence 2,963]

34 minutes ago, ShadOBabe said:

You know they could have abdicated to a governing body of some sort if they really had to. But they had Twilight. Still not quite sure why you think they’d be bound for all eternity when really it just comes down to how much they’re willing to put up with.

Well, given they are technically goddesses (astronomic and metaphysical powers), it only makes sense for them to give up their spot to another being of the same nature as them. Is classical theologic logic. We barely see any god in politeist religions giving up their spot to others, but when they do (or are killed off for real by other gods), you'll see other deities take over the responsabilities to keep the universe working, unless nature itself can function by itself for their given task at such a point.

In that sense, fim's lore states that when Luna was banished Celestia had to take over Luna's astronomic duties to keep the world going as normal. In that sense, we were told from the beginning both sisters were in goddess range. Meaning their role was far beyond of a mere political figure or ruler of a kingdom. It only makes sense that only other deity can take on the responsibilities the sisters had, meaning Twilight must have been a goddess herself after alicornification, else, she was prone to fail on the "long" run. If Twilight isn't a goddess herself, then her life span won't sufice to keep at her duties and the world is prone to collapse soon.

[ShadOBabe 18,984]

5 minutes ago, Jesse Terrence said:

Well, given they are technically goddesses (astronomic and metaphysical powers), it only makes sense for them to give up their spot to another being of the same nature as them. Is classical theologic logic. We barely see any god in politeist religions giving up their spot to others, but when they do (or are killed off for real by other gods), you'll see other deities take over the responsabilities to keep the universe working, unless nature itself can function by itself for their given task at such a point.

In that sense, fim's lore states that when Luna was banished Celestia had to take over Luna's astronomic duties to keep the world going as normal. In that sense, we were told from the beginning both sisters were in goddess range. Meaning their role was far beyond of a mere political figure or ruler of a kingdom. It only makes sense that only other deity can take on the responsibilities the sisters had, meaning Twilight must have been a goddess herself after alicornification, else, she was prone to fail on the "long" run. If Twilight isn't a goddess herself, then her life span won't sufice to keep at her duties and the world is prone to collapse soon.

I only meant political abdication. The could still control the sun and moon while retired. But we’re getting off topic.

[Jesse Terrence 2,963]

4 minutes ago, ShadOBabe said:

I only meant political abdication. The could still control the sun and moon while retired. But we’re getting off topic.

Problem is, up to this point alicorns do all the important political roles for ponykind. Both the Kingdom of Equestria and the Crystal Empire have alicorns as their rulers and we haven't seen any hints anyone but an alicorn being electable for political duties of such magnitude at least for average ponykind (the saddle arabians seem to be more horses than ponies due their anatomy).

In that sense, equestria has extremely long reigns and seems to need it to be that way due ancient forces being a recurrent problem a sovereign with little less than a millenia of knowledge could actually try to face.

[Misty Shadow 7,084]

On 2021-03-05 at 8:58 AM, ShadOBabe said:

You know they could have abdicated to a governing body of some sort if they really had to. But they had Twilight. Still not quite sure why you think they’d be bound for all eternity when really it just comes down to how much they’re willing to put up with.

DISOWNED

Why would you replace a benevolent, immortal ruler with a boring, mortal governing body? I don't see why this is so difficult to understand. I know they are not literally bound for all eternity. But essentially, they have to rule for eternity if they don't have an alicorn like Twilight because there's no better substitute. If Celestia and Luna just gave the position to a pony who would just die off so that they could retire, that would make them appear to be selfish. What you are not taking into account is political and societal pressure. It's like how you don't technically have to work, but you really do have to work in order to make money and pay the bills. And even if you did have money to live off of, you'd appear to be a worthless slob. 

I'll stop here though because I've backed up my case enough. Being an alicorn ruler would not be all tea and crumpets, I don't get the glorification of it, that's my story, I am sticking to it. 

DISOWNED

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

(Though I do not feel my opinion itself here was wrong, I regret the way I unintentionally made people feel with these remarks, I apologize.)

 

 

 

 

Edited March 7, 2021 by CloudMistDragon
Please disregard this post, I have disowned my position.

[Props Valroa 26,042]

3 minutes ago, CloudMistDragon said:

Why would you replace a benevolent, immortal ruler with a boring, mortal governing body? I don't see why this is so difficult to understand. I know they are not literally bound for all eternity. But essentially, they have to rule for eternity if they don't have an alicorn like Twilight because there's no better substitute. If Celestia and Luna just gave the position to a pony who would just die off so that they could retire, that would make them appear to be selfish. What you are not taking into account is political and societal pressure. It's like how you don't technically have to work, but you really do have to work in order to make money and pay the bills. And even if you did have money to live off of, you'd appear to be a worthless slob. 

I'll stop here though because I've backed up my case enough. Being an alicorn ruler would not be all tea and crumpets, I don't get the glorification of it, that's my story, I am sticking to it. 

My theory is that once they reach a certain age they will basically ascend into some sort of spirit realm of sorts. They won't be around forever, every god / goddess has to return to the 'origin' at some point if you get what I mean.

[Ganondorf8 11,118]

From a business perspective, Hasbro is very likely to have a character ascend and become an alicorn. After all, they need to promote their toy lines considering that MLP will always be viewed as a 22 minute long toy commercial. Does it work from a more practical perspective? As in, how would fans respond to it? I'd say that it's a mixed bag. If done correctly, it can open up a whole world of new possibilities that could further strengthen G5. If done wrong, then it would just become a detriment that lingers about.

[EpicEnergy 22,077]

It could be possible, and I wouldn't mind it depending on how well it is executed.

[Misty Shadow 7,084]

44 minutes ago, EpicEnergy said:

It could be possible, and I wouldn't mind it depending on how well it is executed.

Yeah, I actually like the idea of an earth pony becoming an alicorn. Alicorn ascension has just never been something I've ever taken super seriously. 

[ShadOBabe 18,984]

9 hours ago, CloudMistDragon said:

I'll stop here though because I've backed up my case enough

That’s unfortunate, because I still don’t agree with your perspective. But I’m fine with letting it die of you are.

[Will Guide 21,325]

Honestly I never seen Alicorn as permanently immortal and that they actually can lose their immortality. At worst their aging is just slowed down just so they can live longer and pass the wisdom they learn. Then when they feel their time will come, they'll allow themselves to age and die peacefully. 

And that kind of temporary immortality I like to imagine can apply to anyone regardless of race

[Goat-kun 2,498]

Pony lore? Pff! This is H-Bro. Of course we'll be getting an alicorn princess. And the rest of the old alicorn princesses are hanging out in a happy place with Atari E.T. cartridges.

 

The issues here are procedural. Yes, the alicornification was shit, and the next one will likely be shit as well. Some ponies will get butt tumors and Sunny will heal them with the power of her radioactive butt light. Then everypony will fill her up with joy and she'll sprout a horn and a pair of wings. GG.

[ShadOBabe 18,984]

On 2021-03-05 at 2:20 PM, Ganondorf8 said:

From a business perspective, Hasbro is very likely to have a character ascend and become an alicorn.

That’s actually what makes me the most convinced that ascension will happen. Little girls love ponies, unicorns, and pegasi, but why choose when you can have all at once?

Still rooting for it to be an Earth pony though.

[Evil Pink One 12,981]

22 hours ago, Goat-kun said:

Pony lore? Pff! This is H-Bro. Of course we'll be getting an alicorn princess. And the rest of the old alicorn princesses are hanging out in a happy place with Atari E.T. cartridges.

 

 

 

The issues here are procedural. Yes, the alicornification was shit, and the next one will likely be shit as well. Some ponies will get butt tumors and Sunny will heal them with the power of her radioactive butt light. Then everypony will fill her up with joy and she'll sprout a horn and a pair of wings. GG.

 

.....salt..... so many salt

[Goat-kun 2,498]

2 hours ago, Kujamih said:

.....salt..... so many salt

Wrong substance. T'was ethanol. Red wine to be exact, and in vino veritas. Deep down, we all suspect that this is gonna happen.

[Jeric 46,835]

I'm on the "there will be an ascension", viewpoint as well, for the same reasons that others have mentioned -- toys. Many questionable ideas can be executed better than others. I'm not sure if one of the new Manes ascending will dilute the "every pony can make a difference" theme. Perhaps another option that could sidestep this would be to have some focus on an ancillary character that serves the current Alicorn leaders (if leaks are accurate) and this character can be both redeemed and eventually ascend him/herself. If enough screen time is given to a secondary character they could become a toy/fan favorite. However that would assume Hasbro would be on board with the risk that such a character will be popular. This decision will focus on early sales returns. 

 

 

[Evil Pink One 12,981]

7 hours ago, Goat-kun said:

Wrong substance. T'was ethanol. Red wine to be exact, and in vino veritas. Deep down, we all suspect that this is gonna happen.

Oh come on whats so wrong about it?

[Evil Pink One 12,981]

But if i was hasbro they should make a new gimmicks.... Like focus on artifacts.

Artifacts means new toys and accessories.... They can do the " each toys and accessories sold separately."

This way they can make money.... And we can spend more money....

And they should partner up with kotubukiya instead.... So their toys wont suck so much.

And the  artifacts can be equiped with their figurines like the frame arms series. They should copy the frame arms girls.

[Goat-kun 2,498]

18 hours ago, Kujamih said:

Oh come on whats so wrong about it?

It's just toys. That's that.

 

Speaking of toys: brushable and affordable. That's why cheap pony figures are the way to go. Artifacts are there to explain why all the bad stuff that should be happening isn't, so that everyone can play tea parties without being threatened by standard fantasy stuff. You won't get far with gadgets unless they can turn into a house ... for tea parties.

[HereComesTom 2,232]

Shoot, it wasn't until I read the posts about "they need to make toys" that I realized they'll eventually need to make an alicorn.

But then I realized, that doesn't necessarily mean it'll be a main character ascending:  it could be a secondary character, or they could introduce a natural-born alicorn.  I mean, Celestia and Luna came from an alicorn village; they weren't ascended.

[Misty Shadow 7,084]

I am going to do my best to clarify my thoughts on alicorn ascension better than I did previously in this thread. Feedback has made it clear to me that you are not happy with my earlier posts, thus I have disowned them and will try to explain better why I feel the way I do.

What I believe about alicorn ascension in G5 is that it would be a good idea for them to finally have an earth pony ascend, but that it’s not a big deal in the long run. The reason I don’t take alicorn ascension very seriously is because I honestly don’t view alicorns as superior to any other pony type. It is not just because The Ending of the End showed us that a pony can become an alicorn simply by being infused with magic, it is also because of evidence throughout the show that strongly suggests that alicorns who have ascended or been born alicorns are not all-powerful, immortal gods.

The show portrays the alicorns as if they are humans. Humans who have weaknesses, make mistakes, and can die, just like the regular ponies. All throughout the show, the alicorns are defeated in battle (Celestia, Luna, and Twilight Sparkle fail to stand against Chrysalis in To Where and Back Again, Cadence and Flurry Heart get captured by King Sombra in The Beginning of the End, and even all the alicorn magic could not defeat Tirek in Twilight’s Kingdom), have numerous shortcomings (A Royal Problem shows Celestia and Luna behaving immaturely and failing to effectively do each other’s duties and Twilight’s entire character arc showcases her flaws), and contrary to popular belief, are not invulnerable to death.

I will not delve into speculations about Celestia and Luna being dead because of their absence in The Last Problem or Twilight’s rumored death in G5 and only discuss what can be confirmed from the show. In Princess Twilight Sparkle, Nightmare Moon attempts to kill Celestia and take the throne for herself, but how can she do this if Celestia can’t be killed? In The Ending of the End, Twilight Sparkle asks for Flurry Heart to be protected if something happens to her, since Flurry Heart will be their last hope. What is the point of this if Flurry Heart can not die? If Twilight can not die, how can she later accept death in the face of the villains before they make their finishing attack?

However, I know what that makes you think. What if they only can’t die from natural causes like old age? So let’s say hypothetically that not only can Celestia, Luna, and Twilight not be killed, they will also outlive every pony forever. I am far from the first person to suggest that this is actually a curse rather than a blessing, since you would eventually grow tired of never being able to move on, and Celestia and Luna abdicating their position to Twilight is not something they would’ve done had they not grown tired of ruling Equestria.

This is not to say that alicorns do not have great power or that a pony ascending to alicornhood is not a great accomplishment. However, as the saying goes, with great power comes great responsibility. A clear drawback of ruling as an alicorn that is often overlooked is the fact that the alicorn rulers have an obligation to meet the needs of their subjects. At first glance, it appears that Celestia and Luna can do whatever they like, but they are actually bound to three things, duty, optics, and destiny.

Duty is self-explanatory enough, A Royal Problem shows that neither Celestia or Luna’s job is easy. Optics is also explained in A Royal Problem, Celestia and Luna are shown to care about how they are perceived by the public. Destiny, remember that Celestia and Luna have the sun and moon as their cutie marks respectively. Their destiny led them to controlling the sun and moon as part of their job ruling Equestria and they have to take public opinion into consideration. The public would not be pleased if they simply abandoned their duties and left everything to ponies who couldn’t handle their work. In regards to the political aspect of their duties, they needed to give the job to a pony the public could trust just as much as them. Twilight was the only pony capable of ever garnering that much trust. In regards to the magical aspect of their duties, they needed to give the job to a pony that possesses magic of their level, the magic of an alicorn.

Finally, the grand message of the show is not that alicorns are the strongest force in the world. The biggest message of the show is that there is no force stronger than friendship. This comes back to why Celestia and Luna would have to seriously consider public opinion of them even if they weren’t benevolent rulers who honestly cared. Twilight, even with the magic of every alicorn, could not outmatch Tirek, who had taken the magic of every pony in the land, in Twilight’s Kingdom, and the magic of all the Equestrians coming together in unity was the only thing that could overcome Grogar’s magic in The Ending of the End.

This will probably lead into why the rumored corrupt rulers in G5 had to divide the nation of Equestria, but that’s a different story. They could have a pony from the main cast, whether it be earth pony, unicorn, or pegasus become an alicorn, but it would not make a great difference. Alicorn or not, we already know that what will win in the end is the power of unity. This is why, despite the fact I’d find it cool for it to finally be an earth pony, it will ultimately affect nothing. The ponies are already all equal.

That concludes my explanation of how I honestly feel. You can disagree to your heart’s content, that’s fine. I just felt I at least owed people a proper explanation of my previously poorly communicated thoughts. I don’t apologize for having unpopular opinions, but I do apologize for making anyone feel like they’re being talked down to. I always seriously consider your feedback. I hope I can appropriately say now that this is my story and I’m sticking to it. 

[Evil Pink One 12,981]

On 2021-03-09 at 1:18 AM, Goat-kun said:

It's just toys. That's that.

 

 

 

Speaking of toys: brushable and affordable. That's why cheap pony figures are the way to go. Artifacts are there to explain why all the bad stuff that should be happening isn't, so that everyone can play tea parties without being threatened by standard fantasy stuff. You won't get far with gadgets unless they can turn into a house ... for tea parties.

 

Artifact that turns i to a castle.... I think theyve dobe that.... Artfact shaoed like an umbrella or a tiara.. necklave...why not?

[Goat-kun 2,498]

7 hours ago, Kujamih said:

Artifact that turns i to a castle.... I think theyve dobe that.... Artfact shaoed like an umbrella or a tiara.. necklave...why not?

Indeed, MLP artifacts are glorified doll houses or "mundane shit" accessories. You won't get adventurer's equipment. You'll get a pumpkin carriage that can turn into a lemonade stall.

[Evil Pink One 12,981]

19 hours ago, Goat-kun said:

Indeed, MLP artifacts are glorified doll houses or "mundane shit" accessories. You won't get adventurer's equipment. You'll get a pumpkin carriage that can turn into a lemonade stall.

 

A pumpkin carriage that turns into an apple stand.

And sorry for my typin...mah hooves are to big fer mah phone...