mega thread Everypony's Religion And Why?

[MontagnaMagica 307]

 

 

" From there Elisha went up to Bethel. As he was walking along the road, some boys came out of the town and jeered at him. “Get out of here, baldy!” they said. “Get out of here, baldy!” 24 He turned around, looked at them and called down a curse on them in the name of the Lord. Then two bears came out of the woods and mauled forty-two of the boys. 25 And he went on to Mount Carmel and from there returned to Samaria." - 2 Kings: 23-25.   I would be interested to hear a Christian's opinion on these verses.

All right... I'm not a Christian, but I was raised in a Christian background and am still religious to this day. Just keep in mind, I'll be analyzing this from a Bahá'í perspective (we view the Bible as a holy book, but also a historical allegory). This means that while many Biblical stories literally happened (and archæology backs these up), many others were parables or moral lessons.

 

In these verses, we are being told of the life of Elisha and his travels. The word that gets translated in English to "boys" more likely refers to men of about 20 years of age. They were old enough to wander the city on their own and also recognize Elisha as a prophet. When Elisha curses them, he is asking God to take retribution on them rather than, himself, take revenge. This is the right choice, as we humans have a bad tendency to act irrationally when angered. So why was the punishment so severe? Well, the men knew full well who Elisha was (a prophet of God), so to mock him was the same as to mock God Himself. Remember that punishments are not only retribution, but also to serve as a warning to others.

I hope at least this clears some things up for you!

[Evil Nightmares 552]

I am an Atheist. I don't believe in a god. i don't believe in a devil. I don't believe in heaven or hell. I can't imagine what kind of god would allow his creations, that he so dearly loves, to suffer the way we do. And if there is a god, then i would rather go to hell. Hell is where i belong. I deserve to burn in everlasting agony for the rest of eternity anyway.

[Guest90210 3,568]

All right... I'm not a Christian, but I was raised in a Christian background and am still religious to this day. Just keep in mind, I'll be analyzing this from a Bahá'í perspective (we view the Bible as a holy book, but also a historical allegory). This means that while many Biblical stories literally happened (and archæology backs these up), many others were parables or moral lessons.

 

In these verses, we are being told of the life of Elisha and his travels. The word that gets translated in English to "boys" more likely refers to men of about 20 years of age. They were old enough to wander the city on their own and also recognize Elisha as a prophet. When Elisha curses them, he is asking God to take retribution on them rather than, himself, take revenge. This is the right choice, as we humans have a bad tendency to act irrationally when angered. So why was the punishment so severe? Well, the men knew full well who Elisha was (a prophet of God), so to mock him was the same as to mock God Himself. Remember that punishments are not only retribution, but also to serve as a warning to others.

 

I hope at least this clears some things up for you!

 

 

Even if the verse refers to older teenagers/young adults (which is somewhat debated from what I can tell), it still isn't ok to send bears to maul them to death. And how are you so sure they knew he was a prophet? Seriously, Jesus Christ was mocked at, was stoned, and was tortured and he didn't send bears in to attack them.

 

P.S, awesome to see another coaster enthusiast!

[John 793]

I am an Atheist. I don't believe in a god. i don't believe in a devil. I don't believe in heaven or hell. I can't imagine what kind of god would allow his creations, that he so dearly loves, to suffer the way we do. And if there is a god, then i would rather go to hell. Hell is where i belong. I deserve to burn in everlasting agony for the rest of eternity anyway.

 

I respect your opinions.

 

However, I think that people tend to view earthly suffering as the worst possible thing that could be created.  Seriously?  Yes, people suffer and it's bad.  Especially from our perspective.  We are humans, and this is all we know.  So when something bad happens to a fellow human or when people suffer, we tend to freak out.  But honestly, our perspective of what "suffering" is depends on both our senses and emotions, which both are more limited than what could be.  There is only so much suffering that a human can comprehend.

 

You are (in your hypothetical about God allowing people to suffer) judging the intentions of omnipotent divine being in the same way you judge a person.  This is a not the best way to consider a being which is... well.. not human.

 

All I'm saying is that what we consider to be "suffering" and "execrably horrid" in our existence might not really be that big of a deal from the perspective of a soul that has left the body, or from higher level consciousness.  Sure, it's terrible when people suffer.  It happens, it always has an end, and it definitely always "could be worse."  I would consider it to be pessimistic, however, to assume that so much suffering plagues the human race that we are eternally burdened by its intensity.  No offense, but you speak on behalf of those who have suffered in ways that you will never experience.  What makes you justified to do this?  (Rhetorical question)

 

There are people in third world countries who's lives are filled with fear, pain and injustice, yet they have optimism and many times will believe in a God.

 

But the privileged rich first-world kids who have access to advanced medicine and technology with education and a hope for the future sit around and bitch about how God owes them and how he made the world a horrible place.

 

 And again, this does not apply to everyone.  But I've dealt with many people like this.

 

I don't know if there is or isn't a God.  I choose to be Catholic because I choose to have faith as a personal choice.  I am able to see the beauty in the unification of over a billion people -- friends and enemies, saints and sinners, the dedicated and the casual -- under a common roof.  A roof that makes us feel a sense of family, a sense of synergy, and a sense of ultimate consolidation/unification as if we are one single entity.  I remember a scholar talking about God/good versus Lucifer/evil.  He said that the Abrahamic God represents a grand unification and oneness of all things in the universe.  He then went on to say that Evil/Lucifer represents a great separation, chaos, and the discordant nature of mankind.

[Doc. Volt 2,561]

i'm an engineer student... my philosophy is that the science is the way to go, to improve our condition and that mankind can do everything by his own... but i belive in a god.. and i'm catholic... i was raised as catholicby my parents, when i was around 13/14 yo i stopped beliving and stuff... but around 18/19 i realized that too many time i've been helped... say it was luck or something i don't know... i feel god near me and when you don't listen to priest but you read the bible on your own and you interpret its words on your own you understand a lot of thing.. and i love the message of helping each other in it... you just need a critic mind... and you will realize that religion and science can go togheter without any problem... just stay away from the Church, not from god... that's my phylosophy... i know it's a "scientific" view to see the religion but i don't care... i'm ready for the hate words

[Midnight and Shira 123]

I follow no religion, I am simply Spiritual. I believe that there is a greater power, but not in the form of organized religion, nor does 'it' wish to be worshiped. For me, the universe is that greater power. I believe that religion is simply a creation of the mind, it is real for those who believe in it, but not for others. Maybe Christians go to Heaven, but people like me who believe in reincarnation are reincarnated? Imma stop talking, this is confusing.

[Serbon div 386]

I'm Orthodox Christian because I'm Serbian, I was raised like that, my family accepted Christianity at 12th of October somewhere in 11th century, so yeah.

[Galen 1,354]

In these verses, we are being told of the life of Elisha and his travels. The word that gets translated in English to "boys" more likely refers to men of about 20 years of age. They were old enough to wander the city on their own and also recognize Elisha as a prophet. When Elisha curses them, he is asking God to take retribution on them rather than, himself, take revenge. This is the right choice, as we humans have a bad tendency to act irrationally when angered. So why was the punishment so severe? Well, the men knew full well who Elisha was (a prophet of God), so to mock him was the same as to mock God Himself. Remember that punishments are not only retribution, but also to serve as a warning to others.

 

Even if they were teenagers or young men, sending bears to maul 42 of them just because 2 or 3 angered him is beyond disgusting. I cannot view a god who kills innocents just because a few can't control their tongues in their ignorance as the loving, parental god the bible makes him out to be. What message is it supposed to send? That it's ok to kill if someone speaks out of turn? A true prophet would not seek to kill whoever insults him, but teach him and guide him in the right path, and bear in mind that path can be different for everyone. It is only wrong when that path is paved with the blood and suffering of others. That the prophet would seek retribution just for a few swear words is clearly a path carved out of those things. It was wrong and cruel, and you do not meet cruelty with cruelty as that will obviously generate more cruelty.

Edited January 10, 2014 by Freedan

[MontagnaMagica 307]

 

 

P.S, awesome to see another coaster enthusiast!

Oh yeah! I know there are a few of us here. You should check out this thread: http://mlpforums.com/topic/28982-roller-coaster-enthusiast-thread/

 

That the prophet would seek retribution just for a few swear words is clearly a path carved out of those things.

I do have to admit that the punishment was awfully severe. Do remember that the Bible is historical allegory. It may be that their death was a mere coincidence, and the writer of this passage attributed it to divine retribution.

[Galen 1,354]

 

 

I do have to admit that the punishment was awfully severe. Do remember that the Bible is historical allegory. It may be that their death was a mere coincidence, and the writer of this passage attributed it to divine retribution.

 

Then I would assume the writer was not thinking about what his god really wanted if we are to assume he really is all-loving and caring. The fact of the matter is there's many more such passages where god even allows soldiers to take the wives and virgin daughters of the Isrealites they killed as their own, which is tantamount to rape. And there's a lot more examples of cruelty that can't simply be dumbed down to coincidence.

[PlunderSteed 1,252]

All right... I'm not a Christian, but I was raised in a Christian background and am still religious to this day. Just keep in mind, I'll be analyzing this from a Bahá'í perspective (we view the Bible as a holy book, but also a historical allegory). This means that while many Biblical stories literally happened (and archæology backs these up), many others were parables or moral lessons.

 

In these verses, we are being told of the life of Elisha and his travels. The word that gets translated in English to "boys" more likely refers to men of about 20 years of age. They were old enough to wander the city on their own and also recognize Elisha as a prophet. When Elisha curses them, he is asking God to take retribution on them rather than, himself, take revenge. This is the right choice, as we humans have a bad tendency to act irrationally when angered. So why was the punishment so severe? Well, the men knew full well who Elisha was (a prophet of God), so to mock him was the same as to mock God Himself. Remember that punishments are not only retribution, but also to serve as a warning to others.

 

I hope at least this clears some things up for you!

 

 

That's an interesting interpretation of that passage.  Still, the age of the "boys" is a matter of speculation: the OT contains the only known record of this event, and it doesn't specify the ages or even the names of the victims.  Their understanding of Elisha's identity (and status as a prophet) is also a matter of speculation.  What we can probably agree on is that they were punished in a spectacularly violent manner for mocking God and/or his prophet.  Specifically, they called him bald and told him to "go up", or maybe "get out", depending on the translation.

 

Consider this: if you or I had the power to summon animals and have them do our bidding, would we be justified in using that power to slaughter people who insult us?  Wouldn't that be a little...what's the word you used...irrational?  If we did that, our actions would justifiably be considered petty, vindictive and absolutely unhelpful to anyone or anything (except maybe our own pride).  How can a behavior be so revolting when a human does it, but somehow acceptable for a deity to do it?  Isn't God supposed to be better than us, and to be a perfect example of the virtues humans are supposed to espouse?

 

Bottom line: when God slaughters boys for mocking him and/or his representative, is it really a simple matter of "talk shit, and I'll kill you", or is there something actually useful to learn here?  If so...what?

[Shift 4,272]

Can't believe I haven't posted here yet.

 

I say i'm Christian since i'm still in my teenage years, but y'know, I've always thought of myself to be Agnostic. Not any particular one, just it's that I don't... care about religion. Probably Agnostic Atheist, if you want a specific one but I don't exactly consider myself to be an Atheist. I'm just open to whatever the hell's out there.

 

AKA, I don't give a flying feather about religion.

Edited January 12, 2014 by Shift

[Deesinn 393]

I'm Atheist and I personally think religion is silly, and a form of unintentional indoctrination, BUT, I do wish Satan was real, because I heard around the bush that he throws wild parties, does tons of drugs, loves to sex with as many ponies as possible, and jams to rock and roll!

 

I'd be his friend, and that would make him 20% cooler

Edited January 12, 2014 by Deesinn

[Nerdy Luigi 2,065]

Im an atheist, simply because science has much more traction IMO than religion. Plus, religion is fairly obsolete, and as well, quite simple. I believe that it's more complex of a process.

Plus, religion has more to answer for this question: Then what was before our multiverse (I believe space could encompass many universes)? Before that one? What about before that?

The answer soon enough will be not possible even if "God" didn't require any nutrients. Universes don't require nutrients to grow, but only *more* space. Exactly.

[MontagnaMagica 307]

That's an interesting interpretation of that passage.  Still, the age of the "boys" is a matter of speculation: the OT contains the only known record of this event, and it doesn't specify the ages or even the names of the victims.  Their understanding of Elisha's identity (and status as a prophet) is also a matter of speculation.  What we can probably agree on is that they were punished in a spectacularly violent manner for mocking God and/or his prophet.  Specifically, they called him bald and told him to "go up", or maybe "get out", depending on the translation.   Consider this: if you or I had the power to summon animals and have them do our bidding, would we be justified in using that power to slaughter people who insult us?  Wouldn't that be a little...what's the word you used...irrational?  If we did that, our actions would justifiably be considered petty, vindictive and absolutely unhelpful to anyone or anything (except maybe our own pride).  How can a behavior be so revolting when a human does it, but somehow acceptable for a deity to do it?  Isn't God supposed to be better than us, and to be a perfect example of the virtues humans are supposed to espouse?   Bottom line: when God slaughters boys for mocking him and/or his representative, is it really a simple matter of "talk shit, and I'll kill you", or is there something actually useful to learn here?  If so...what?

Thank you for the thoughtful response. I don't want to come across as a know-it-all, because the fact is, I do not know it all. However, there are just too many fulfilled prophecies, unexplained phenomena, and personal spiritual and demonic experiences for me to throw out religion simply because I don't understand it all. God is infinite, and we are just here trying to understand Him with our finite minds. I know you probably are not going to accept that answer, and that's OK. I'm not here to change anyone's mind through arguing. But I do hope I can shed a more positive light on religions, because they are far too often mocked and misrepresented.

[Sparkshower 103]

I had t vote anglican because episcopalian wasnt an option but I am an episcopalian because the church I got to has such a great open door policy that gay and lesbian couple can feel comfortable kissing each other during "The peace" (part of the service where people turn to each other and they hug kiss or shake hand sand say "peace be with you")

[Powderpuff 390]

I'm a new Christian. I wasn't raised with any sort of religion or spirituality, it just wasn't a part of my life. I realize it's something I've always been missing. 

[RoguesWolfe 192]

I dont exactly have a religion, but with my major I will be studying many different religions. Im open to all and maybe one day I may find one I fit in, I may not, who knows.

[Guest90210 3,568]

An interesting I thought about...

 

Why are the contents itself of the Bible debated and undecided within the Christian community?

 

First of all, the Bible isn't a single book. It's a collection of many books. Did you know that the Catholic Bible has 7 more books than other Bibles? Did you know that some verses appear in certain bibles yet are absent in others (such as 1 John 5:7)?

 

Who decided which books went into the Bible? Jesus? God? The Disciples? The Prophets?

 

Nope. It was a series of committees of Christians in the year 325. And even they couldn't all agree on which books should be included. 

 

Ever hear of the Apocalypse of Peter? The Infancy Gospel? The Gospel of Barnabus? Probably not. These are just a couple of the many books that were written at around the same time as the other books yet were left out of the Bible mainly because they didn't fit with their ideologies and/or were "inaccurate" according to them.

 

Why is it that the supposedly perfect and infallible Word of God wasn't put together by God, but humans (and not even humans that walked with Jesus)? Why is no clear cut number of books? Why are some verses disputed?

 

At least with the Quran, it's been the exact same since it's creation and there is no dispute over the contents themselves.

[GreyScholar 1,584]

Then there's the issue of transcription, translation, and factoring in the corrupt elements of the church that cropped up after the death of the Apostles that would purposefully remove or alter parts of the Bible. Well one does need to consider the Bible carefully, in my case through prayer.

 

Yes I as a Christian just said all of the above. I also will not deny the Crusades, the Inquisition, and Witch Hunts... not even counting the corruption of the papacy with such individuals as Pope Alexander IV (a.k.a. Roderic Borja, a man known for turning the papal palace into a flesh pit and possibly involved in incest with his daughter, as well as the whole messed up family being known for poisoning).

 

Yet despite the Catholic Church messing things up I still believe in God and I'm still a Christian.

[Lagom 204]

 My mother is a strong Catholic while my father is a Buddhist. I am myself personal an atheist, but if I should go a way I would probably be Buddhist since I agree a lot with their beliefs and you don't have to believe in any god. Of course there's Buddha, but I've heard that when you go to a temple to pray it's not usually to Buddha but the Buddha in yourself in order to obtain Nirvana/Enlightenment.

Edited January 14, 2014 by SweetieBelle456

[PlunderSteed 1,252]

At least with the Quran, it's been the exact same since it's creation and there is no dispute over the contents themselves.

No dispute? The massive casualty rates from Sunni/Shiite sectarian violence (in places like Iraq) might indicate that the contents of a holy book matter less than the civility of the people reading it.

[Guest90210 3,568]

No dispute? The massive casualty rates from Sunni/Shiite sectarian violence (in places like Iraq) might indicate that the contents of a holy book matter less than the civility of the people reading it.

 

Yes, there's no dispute as to what the contents are. I never said anything about the civility of the people reading the book, all I said was the Quran has been the same since it's inception. All sects of Islam use the same Quran. The dispute between the Sunni's and Shia's has to do with the succession of the Prophet Muhammad and the validity of certain Hadith (which are collections of stories supposedly told by Muhammad and his followers).

Edited January 15, 2014 by Rivendare

[PlunderSteed 1,252]

Yes, there's no dispute as to what the contents are. I never said anything about the civility of the people reading the book, all I said was the Quran has been the same since it's inception. All sects of Islam use the same Quran. The dispute between the Sunni's and Shia's has to do with the succession of the Prophet Muhammad and the validity of certain Hadith (which are collections of stories supposedly told by Muhammad and his followers).

 

If a Hadith ("stories supposely told by [a prophet]") is sacred enough for the question of its validity to split an entire religion in half, isn't that exactly the same as different interpretations of the Bible splitting Christianity into fragments?

[Guest90210 3,568]

If a Hadith ("stories supposely told by [a prophet]") is sacred enough for the question of its validity to split an entire religion in half, isn't that exactly the same as different interpretations of the Bible splitting Christianity into fragments?

 

Hmm. Well, kind of I suppose. The Hadith's aren't regarded as "Holy Books" though I guess would be the best way to put it. They are primarily stories that speak of Muhammad and his wisdom.

 

The main dispute is whether Ali (the nephew of Muhammad) or Abu Bakr (Muhammad's Father-in-Law) succeeded Muhammad as the new "leader" of sorts of the Islamic religion. The Shia's believe in "12 Imams" who are the true successors to the Prophet, which Sunni's see as Haram (forbidden, incorrect, against the true religion, etc). There are some other differences but that is the main one.

 

I just found it interesting that the Bible has gone through so many revisions when it's supposed to be the "Perfect word of God" while the Quran has never changed a single word since it was made.