Whos Fault was it, Fluttershy Or Iron Will?

[Mywas 687]

Okay so I had this thing in my head for the past hour, I know that Iron Will was the antagonist of PYHD but It seemed to me that Fluttershy was her own Antagonist and Iron Will Doesn't deserve to be blamed.

 

Let me explain this to you Iron Will does lessons to help ponies, sure he makes money out of them but he has goats to feed. And his lessons are mostly about how to handle Being taken advantage of. So is pretty much an Anti-bully. Fluttershy goes by his lessons but she overdo it, she turns into a Bully herself and harms her friend, So she locks herself. Then Iron Will comes to take his money that He expects, Pinkie Pie and Rarity Try to stop him but he moves them out of his way without actually harming them. But then Fluttershy refueses to give him his money, He just moves on with his life without forcing her to paying which she should but he kept his no paying if not satisfied Promise and moved on to his next costumers.

 

So basicly Iron Will may have had A Part of Fluttershy turning into a Jerk but Mostly It was Fluttershys Fault, His Lessons were made to help ponies who can't stand up for themselfs but Fluttershy took them the wrong way. And to be honest blaming Iron Will would be like Blaming a science Teacher because of his students built a Nuclear Bomb.

[Moonlight 7,286]

Fluttershy's fault. Why? She's the one who went overboard on it and she could have went to Rainbow Dash or any of her other friends instead of Iron Will and such. Her fault for even going. 

 

 

[~Silver Essence~ 2,625]

The answer is simple, it's fluttershy.

 

You see, when learning new abilities or actions from your mentor, you are responsible towards how you handle it to your friends and family or anyone else in that matter. Fluttershy went to overboard to the point where she made her friends cry, made everyone fear her, and got a bad reputation.

 

Iron will taught her how to be tough, but she used her powers too far..

[Alex Kennedy 1,228]

I don't think either of them can really be blamed exactly. I think Iron Will's methods probably work most of the time, but Fluttershy was too extreme of a case, and it ended up pushing her to the opposite extreme. Fluttershy knew she needed help, and her friends hadn't been able to help her enough, so she went to the only other place she could think of. To the extent that someone should be blamed, it's Fluttershy, but I don't think either of them could have predicted how badly it would end.

[An Old Head 4,816]

Iron Will. He encourages disruption of an otherwise relatively peaceful town and its goings about. Notice how all of Fluttershy's problems had other solutions than over-asserting yourself? Pinkie played a mind game with the tomato salespony, Rarity charmed the asparagus off of Gizmo. The point is that they were methods of asserting yourself without being a bully, so Iron Will's clinic is basically giving you a similar result, but at the cost of peace.

 

And the reason Iron Will politely moves Rarity and Pinkie Pie out of the way is because he's triple their size. He doesn't need to be assertive there, he's a Minotaur with bulging muscles that could probably knock a pony to Cloudsdale.

Edited July 20, 2013 by Flipturn Amaterasu ツ

[Zygen 6,066]

Well I might be A Fluttershy fan and thus slightly biased, but Iron will did have his lessons as a very aggressive way of dealing with matters, which could've be resolved in more peaceful ways, Rarity and Pinkie showed examples of these.

 

Of course, Fluttershy did take the lessons overboard even still, so it is partly her fault, but maybe she didn't realize not being experienced at being assertive.

 

So it was kinda both of them, although I'm inclined to say Iron will.

[Ruddboy Olaf 10,628]

I don't hate Fluttershy,as she is one of the cutest ponies,but i'm going to 

have to say that it was her fault! 
 

She was the one who took it too far,Iron Will was just trying to help her! I believe he deserves his money for it!

 

Iron Will didn't know that Flutters was going to go that far,but i got to admit,it was quite funny seeing Fluttershy

beat people up!

   

 

Sorry Flutters,but i vote you!

 

Poor camera dude! Hold on a second! Is he a blank flank? Yeah! he is!!

Edited July 20, 2013 by Sir Lancelot

[Jokuc 8,173]

Fluttershy definately. I know she is shy and she wanted her friends to be happy with a new Fluttershy that is not as soft as she is, but she should have seen herself when she had to stop with what she was doing. She is well aware of that she is mean, Iron Will did not put a curse on her. Of course he is a big reason to why she became as she did, but Fluttershy should know better than following "advice" that she knows is wrong. It's her fault because she did not listen to her friends even when she noticed that they disliked the new Fluttershy.

Edited July 20, 2013 by Jokuc

[DarligPegasi 315]

I think it was Iron Will's fault for not being more clear with his lessons. He obviously saw that Fluttershy was the weakest least assertive pony in that crowd and he picked her and taught her to be assertive but then he didn't explain the boundaries. Like sometimes some ponies don't mean it so don't take their cameras and launch them into bell towers.

[Windy Scamper 403]

Have to vote for Fluttershy. Iron Will give a satisfaction gaurantee, meaning most ponies were satisified and the methods usually worked. Fluttershy was the one who took them way too seriously, and when asked for her money back, Iron Will handled it really well.

 

I don't see why he's viewed as a "bad guy."

[Onylex 2,837]

I dont think I can vote on this one, if you'd ask me both of them are to blame. Iron Will was teaching a very aggressive way to assert yourself when there are many other ways of teaching someone to assert themselfs without having to be aggressive about it.

 

In many ways Fluttershy can be blamed as well she didn't have to take it as far as she did. I do realize that she may have only taken it that far because she is not very experienced in assertiveness but, still... Why not ask for help from her friends? 

[Fhaolan 4,483]

Iron Will was not the villain. If at any point the ponies bothered to tell him what the problem was, rather than automatically treat him like a monster and shut him out, I'm pretty sure he would have helped to fix the problem.

 

Fluttershy wasn't in the wrong either. She was just the wrong personality for Iron Will's standard training.

[StarStep 42]

This is one of the easiest questions ever. Fluttershy.  Your actions are your own. Period. A self help conference is never an excuse to be a complete jerk. It may be an explanation as to why but it is not an excuse. She knew she was crossing the line but she just went right ahead and kept doing it because she felt good having that power.

[Dark Horn 430]

Fluttershy was the problem, the issue, the trouble, the difficulty, the conundrum, as well as the main villain.

 

She was the antagonist of her own story. Iron Will just gave her a gentle shoves with a couple of catchphrases, and she did the rest.

[Shanks 10,816]

I think there should be an option for both of them because well they both deserve some of the blame. Yes Fluttershy took things way too far as a matter of fact even farther than most of Iron Will's students ever have, but Iron Will's methods themselves also posed a serious problem in their overly aggressive often violent and confrontational nature. Fluttershy is responsible for how she used the teachings but so is Iron Will for actually teaching that, if anything he is even more responsible because it is likely that Fluttershy is not the first student to misuse those teachings. Despite this though Iron Will is not entirely bad as he has clearly shown to have a sense of honor as he did keep his word that if you are not satisfied that you do not have to pay. And he seemed to like Fluttershy's approach to saying no to him when he said "no mean no huh, I gotta remember that one." So Iron Will may have also learned something from that experience and it is possible that he may have implimented Fluttershy's approach in that episode in his seminars.

[Gears of Halo Duty V 394]

It has to be both.

 

Iron Will is instilling certain values and beliefs onto those who actually go through his program. While being assertive is something one should have at the ready, the approach Iron Will takes implies being aggressive rather than assertive. He is a "teacher" and whatever he teaches his "students" will impact them, one way or another.

 

Fluttershy then made these lessons her own, and obviously went overboard. The actions she took are her own, but where did they themselves come from? Herself and the lessons she received as an extension. While she may have acted like a jerk, she also might not have done what she did if she didn't learn from Iron Will.

[Dr. Eggnog 203]

Fluttershy made a mistake in being mean to other ponies, thinking that being assertive means that you have to be a jerk, which isn't true.  She was poorly influenced by Iron Will.  HOWEVER, when Iron Will gets to Fluttershy's house, he actually seems like kindof a nice guy, and I think he really thought he was making ponies happier by making them more assertive and providing a genuine service, and was ignorant of the harm he was causing.  However, Rarity and Pinkie Pie seem to think of him as an immoral villain who is a jerk on purpose, and make him look like 100% the bad guy of the episode, when really some of the blame rests with Fluttershy as well.  Because Rarity and Pinkie thought of Iron Will as a total monster, there wasn't any room for him to learn anything in the end and become a better person (minotaur), which I can't help but think of as a fault of the episode.

Edited July 21, 2013 by Dr. Eggnog

[RosemaryPetal 112]

Fluttershy. I think she just took it WAY too far. She never had any restraint, although perhaps Iron will should've taught her a little of that as well.

[Argumedies 1,748]

As I have said many times on this subject...

 

Iron Will only uncorked her own penned up frustrations and emotions and she didn't know how to handle or control them.

Edited July 21, 2013 by Argumedies

[Lost Profile 644]

I agree, I never really thought of iron will as a villain or anything, I saw him just as some sort of teacher...

 

My main question is why is iron will on the Chaos is Magic poster? I don't really think he belongs there.

[Winona the Dog 1,984]

You could really blame both really.

 

Fluttershy is to blame because she went to the seminar of her own free will instead of going to someone like Rainbow Dash or her other friends. She didn't need to go to Iron Will specifically. 

 

Iron Will is to blame because he purposely isolated Fluttershy to be his first subject to teach, In addition to that he did do his job but he forgot to teach Fluttershy the boundaries of being assertive. Then again it can be common sense to realize when you're being over-assertive which is something Fluttershy should've seen earlier than she should have.

[Nerdy Luigi 2,065]

Both but Iron Will mainly. She did not take the lessons that far overboard, those WERE the basic concepts of the lessons. (Even though she DID decide to take them in the first place)

[Sylentmana 271]

Iron Will offered a simple service.  Even if his advice was shoddy at best it was ultimately up to Fluttershy to understand and properly apply the lessons he gave.  She took it to far on her own and even Fluttershy herself admits that she took it to far.

[Dark Horn 430]

@@Dr. Eggnog,

 

I think you're right. The ending, as in most MLP episodes was happy for everyone... except for Iron Will.

 

Gee, poor guy. Hey, look on the bright side. He's still popular and loved by others (did you see how the ponies clapped for him during the seminar?), he's got goats, he's got a pink shopping basket, and he's going to get tons of money from his workshops.

[Scootalove 10,689]

I would say to blame both but, I think it was Fluttershy's fault for taking all of Iron Will's lessons and use them to be mean to other ponies just because she doesn't speak up for herself on being assertive. Iron Will was the mentor who taught Fluttershy the lessons on how to be assertive and also use the wrong way by being mean.