Is Twilight Sparkle an illegitimate princess?

[Solar Cloud 493]

I just read this blog on FimFiction about Twilight being an illegitimate princess. Also, the writer said that she was risen, in power, above everyone else, without their consent and that is morally reprehensible. What is your take on it?

Here is the blog.

http://www.fimfiction.net/blog/202924/my-issues-with-princesses#page/2

[Misty Shadow 7,088]

FIMFiction is something radical. No insult, but a lot of the members there take everything way too freaking seriously and it's hilarious. I don't take blog posts like that into serious consideration because they're just too lulzy. 

 

By the way, if you want my opinion on the question of the matter, it is a simple "No."

[Metemponychosis 1,236]

First... A big problem with this kind of discussion is that people can't seem to understand (these people, at least) that a Princess in Equestria is a very different thing from what it is in our world.

 

And second... Twilight wasn't plucked out of the "general public". She was prepared, even if she didn't know. In the end, through her journey, she got power (and responsibility) and her coronation is the culmination of this process. Now she is recognized as somepony who understands the Magic of Friendship and is proficient in magic, both very important in Equestria, and this is how their world works. Instead of someone being elected because he/she is charismatic and knows how to drive a crowd, they got somepony with the right qualities to be a ruler.

 

Democracy is the best we can do. Equestrians got a better solution.

[Yellow Diamond 7,564]

I scanned through the blog post and the arguments proposed by RealityCheck, the writer. The central problem with their assessment is that MLP is not couched in our reality; their society is very much different than ours. They are ruled by two princesses who possess the ability to control the celestial cycles. Celestia and Luna are nearly total embodiments of divinely authorized rulers because they wield what we would interpret as supernatural power. The two of them -- at least recently, with Luna reforming and all that jazz -- are likewise extraordinarily benevolent by our standards and nearly incorruptible (save for Luna). The need for a societal compact, viz. a constitution crafted by consent of the (voting) population, is arguably unnecessary because Celestia and Luna already embody the will of Equestrian society. Until such time the show delineates some sort of democratic institution as part of Equestria's national government, we will have to assume Celestia and Luna wield absolute authority. The buck stops with them.

 

Now, there is something to be said for the argument that Twilight becoming a princess the way she did is perhaps a bad moral. I personally disagree. Why? Because her ascendancy was premised on the show's chief message: friendship is magic. I think we are frankly engaging in semantics when we highlight how Twilight casting the spell was a fluke. The essential point is that she embraced friendship and compassion, not power and domination, to restore things to balance. Twilight is easily one of the most powerful beings in Equestria; yet she recognizes that her gifts are empty without the care, trust, and love of those around her. That lesson is at the heart of her emerging as a princess. Season 3 ultimately demonstrated Twilight fulfilling her destiny through selflessness, by accepting she isn't always the center of attention. In short, she is perhaps as incorruptible as Celestia has proven herself to be.

 

If there is a lesson for the audience, especially little girls, it is that you can judge yourself by the company you keep and how you treat them. Friendships lift everyone involved. In the world of MLP, that just so happens to tie into the special destiny of Twilight Sparkle. She's a princess because such is the way Equestria functions. When RealityCheck mentions Twilight's "former friends" being complacent in her rise to power, I haven't any clue what they mean. It seems evident to me that Twilight very much intends to remain friends with the rest of the Mane Six. Anything contrary to that would completely undermine the premise of Princess Twilight Sparkle.

 

In the end, if all else fails, Twilight can hold a plebiscite in which she successfully annexes Austria Ponyville with 98% of the vote. Now that is democracy in action.

[Fhaolan 4,468]

The fellow seems a bit of twit. He's confusing his personal distain for what is called the "Disney Princess" with the actual role of Princess shown in MLP itself. At no point has any of the Princesses been shown as 'pampered, simpering idiots that demand worship from the masses', that are sustained by the taxes on the poor, or any of the nonsense he's spouted. He's assumed all that merely from the title 'Princess', without any knowledge of what the term actually means or how it is used in Equestria.

[DaReaper 1,943]

I 'm gonna go a different way seeing twilight kinda fits this quote

"Some are born great, some achieve greatness, and some have greatness thrust upon them."

William Shakespear

 

Twilight had to work hard to become a princess, even though she didnt know she was gonna become one, so I would say definitly not illegitimate

(Side note i think the quote starts "Be not afraid of greatness" not exactly sure though)

[Dragonshy 2,305]

The entire show was kind of leading up to the point where she would become a princess. She was Celestia's personal student who showed massive capability in her magic, beyond the magic of adult unicorns, at a very young age.

 

Her name too! Twilight? The time between the sun and the moon? (Celestia and Luna)

 

It all really made sense in my opinion.

 

All the things she has done to save all of Equestria several times while Celestia layed back and ate popcorn? I would say she definitely earned her title as princess.

[--Thunder Bolt-- 534]

I think the person's argument is somewhat premature.  So far, we've seen the Alicorn Princesses reign, but we have not seen them rule.  We do not know what laws, if any, they have decreed.  We don't even know for certain that they have any political power at all.  It is entirely possible that laws and customs are decided entirely on the local level, e.g. Ponyville's no-magic rule for Winter Wrap-Up.  Aside from their cosmological duties, the Princesses could be "spiritual" leaders, more like the current Dalai Lama (not his predecessors, who had actual political power in Tibet) than autocratic rulers.  Given the existence of unicorn/alicorn magic, the Princesses could have built Canterlot themselves, for all we know.  Or, with the cutie mark system, the architects, stonemasons, artisans, etc. who built it could have done so as a giant collaborative art project, the same way Rarity makes dresses for her friends.  IOW, we don't know that its construction was funded by taxes wrung from the forced labor of starving peasants like the Palace of Versailles. 

 

Or, the Princesses could actually be Divine Right autocrats or Platonic Philosopher-Queens.  We don't know yet.  Season 4 will probably show us some more detail about what being a "princess" in Equestria actually entails, as Twilight learns the job.

 

As for democracy, it becomes less "democratic" as the size of its institutions scales upward.  Once it requires multiple millions of dollars or more to be a serious candidate for office,¹ "the people" aren't really the ones picking the leaders anymore.  If you're an American,² do you really have much more choice in who the next President is and what policies they'll pursue than the average ancient Egyptian had over who got to be Pharaoh?  Sure, you could make a career out of climbing the ranks of one party apparatus or the other until you become powerful enough to matter, but then an ancient Egyptian could join a Temple and work their way up to being the High Priest of Ptah.  Either way, the ordinary individual has about the same amount of real political influence.

 

The main difference is that democratic citizens usually have more freedom to organize political movements and protest...for all the good it does these days.  We don't have any indication that Celestia would punish ponies for protesting against her rule, or against some particular decree or action ("No 100-degree days!  Stop sunburns now!" )

 

NOTES:

 

1. Obama and Romney spent more than a billion dollars each in the last Presidential campaign.

 

2. Europeans arguably have more of a voice, since their parliamentary systems allow for multiple political parties, and smaller parties can have more influence on national policy.  Thus, a European with a proportional representation system at least has a better chance of being able to select a party more tailored to their interests, than an American who can choose to vote for one of two massive parties that aren't that different from one another on matters of foreign or economic policy.

[TheStareMaster 45]

Think how many times Twilight has saved the day over Celestia, then you realise why she deserves her princess-ship. I mean, apart from the original nightmare moon, all Celestias done is getting beaten up and put in a pod.

[Scootalove 10,684]

Twilight has done a lot more than Celestia because, Celestia acknowledges that Twilight has saved Equestria many times while Celestia did some things and, getting beaten also being trapped in a pod.

[Harmony And Rarity 195]

In our standards she would not be a legitimate princess, but in Equestria standards she would be. When you become a princess it means you mastered something. Like Cadence mastered Love, and Twilight Sparkle mastered friendship. The only thing that is not clear is that we don't know how Celestia and Luna mastered something. And season 4 is supposed to be around Celestia and Luna's rule around before Nightmare Moon. 

[~SadisticFluttershy~ 779]

What isn't being understood from some of you is that Twilight earned the right to be a Princess of Equestria.

Celestia put her trust in Twilight into finishing the spell that Stars the bearded couldn't. Therefore, Twilight was able to succeed in the end which then the elements of harmony opened a portal that lead Twilight to a dimension that she's never been to in which Celestia was waiting on her apprentice showing up. Now she said "Congratulations Twilight, I knew you could do it".

What was said there is that she knew Twilight had the knowledge and strength to finish a spell that not even the greatest unicorn in all of Equestria(Back then) could finish all those years ago way before Twilight's time. Celestia sent Twilight to ponyville in the very beginning cause she knew she represented the Element of Magic but could only use the Element's of Harmony if she made friends. During the course of time of Twilight being in Ponyville and learning the magic of friendship, Herself and her friends were able to do things that  no pony else could do. In the Crystal Empire, Celestia called for Twilight because she knew Twilight's abilities in saving the Empire, keeping Sombra out. What's being said here guys is that Princess Celestia chose Twilight as her apprentice many years ago and knew that she could do many many incredible things in her lifetime that she would never expect. She put her trust and faith in Twilight into doing thing's that herself couldn't do even if she waned to. In the end, Celestia knew that Twilight was ready to become Equestria's next princess because of her strength, knowledge, friendships and power. Those combined is what makes a Princess. She earned her position, it wasn't given to her. Again, she earned it through hard work, but in a great way.

 

This is how I would summarize the whole show in a paragraph on view points on Twilight's destiny.

[Fhaolan 4,468]

In our standards she would not be a legitimate princess, but in Equestria standards she would be. When you become a princess it means you mastered something. Like Cadence mastered Love, and Twilight Sparkle mastered friendship. The only thing that is not clear is that we don't know how Celestia and Luna mastered something. And season 4 is supposed to be around Celestia and Luna's rule around before Nightmare Moon.

Technically, she is a legitimate princess by our standards as well. In RL a monarch (in this case Celestia) can simple declare someone a Princess. The most common use is for those who marry into the royal family (re: Shining Armor), but it is used in other cases as well. Plus the definition of 'prince' and 'princess' in RL is a lot broader than most people realize. I've got a blog entry that goes into more detail: http://mlpforums.com/blog/844/entry-4983-equestria-and-the-crystal-empire-always-a-princess-never-a-queen/

[Orablanco Account 3,706]

OR, and I know this is gonna sound weird, maybe it's possible that the society of talking magic ponies has a different perception of laws and values from our own, and thus is pointless to judge this based solely on how our laws work.

[Harmony And Rarity 195]

OR, and I know this is gonna sound weird, maybe it's possible that the society of talking magic ponies has a different perception of laws and values from our own, and thus is pointless to judge this based solely on how our laws work.

Yeah, but you gotta admit if our world worked like Equestria it would be pretty awesome. I wonder if we would have wars?

Mind = Blown

[~Silver Essence~ 2,621]

Well, yes.'

 

I mean, she was given the transformation by Celestia herself, she has worked hard to earn that rank, so naturally, she is a legitimate princess. 

[Guest]

I'd say yes, she ascended to a higher form of existence after mastering the art of friendship, she was "upgraded" by celestia, so yeah i'd say she's pretty much a legitimate princess...we'll just have to wait for s4 to see how it will work out.

[Literally Snails 2,307]

It's pretty obvious that princess just means important in MLP. There's no explanation as to why every ruler they have is a princess and you certainly don't become a princess like Twilight did in a way that even makes an iota of sense. They just replace the word ruler with princess because toy sales.

[Nature's Spell 526]

This guy has too much time on his hands. Why is this such a big deal? The whole show was leading up to Twilight getting her wings and crown. End of discussion. Nothing to see here. Move on. Build a big bridge!

Edited September 8, 2013 by Nature Spell

[Frith is Magick 1,471]

Twilight Sparkle is a legitimate princess in my opinion. Partly because she was born for it, partly because she earned it. As seen in The Cutie Mark Chronicles, as a filly she had tremendous magical potential, what she lacked was the ability to control this magic. When she unleashes the burst of magic after the sonic rainboom, we see her eyes glow white, just like they did when unleashing the EoH. Even her cutie mark represents magic in the context of the Elements. It can be argued that Princess Celestia handed the reins over to Twilight (no pun intended) as a means of testing her magical ability as well as seeing how she would respond under pressure. In addition, we see that she has a strong enough character to rule. As she develops her ability, she does not become tyrannical or arrogant, as Sunset Shimmer did. The fact that she did not want to rule shows that she would be a just ruler. Twilight Sparkle spent the three seasons learning to be a leader and a friend, as well as mastering her inherent magical ability. 

 

What I have seen of Equestria's politics, a Princess is both a sort of parent figure, using their magic to protect the realm. Their leadership is largely indirect. Just as Celestia rarely told Twilight what to do, just guided her along the right path. Ultimately, they prefer to teach and guide rather than decree. The fact that Twilight had the option of using her magic for her own ends, and ignored that path, shows that she has earned her title as Princess.

[Venomshank 120]

It's a funny thing to think about, but their politics have never known human politics. A princess just means "leader" to them. At least, that's what it looks like.

[Smarts 1,620]

I think it's dumb. She is a legitimate princess. It was her destiny to become one. Celestia even figured that and trained Twilight as her apprentice for the day that it happened. Twilight Sparkle always had great magical potential as seen from many episodes, so it was no wonder Celestia saw great things in her and that she became an alicorn. I swear, people will make a big deal out of everything nowadays.

[Koelath 444]

she was risen, in power, above everyone else, without their consent and that is morally reprehensible.

 

...She wasn't "risen in power". She has ALWAYS been the most powerful among the regulars. Unless you mean rank in which case it still doesn't matter. Where is the "morally reprehensible" element in all this? That blog is stupid...

[Splashee 28,537]

On 9/5/2013 at 7:26 AM, Solar Cloud said:

I just read this blog on FimFiction about Twilight being an illegitimate princess.

I think FimFiction is onto something 

Also, I got a notification from Firefox that FimFiction had tried to access my email account, it something. Quite scary site!