Why hate Mary Sues?

[Hive King 2,001]

In my mind Super Man is very much a marysue i think the novel Jasper Jones puts it best and i quote.

 

“See, Batman is different. He's mortal. He's got a real life to risk. Superman just has to avoid Kryptonite. Big deal. Superman fears nothing because outside a few very specific circumstances where he might encounter some stupid rock, nothing can possibly do him in. Batman has the same vulnerabilities as the rest of us, so he has the same fears as us. That's why he's the most courageous: because he can put those aside and fight on regardless. My point is this: the more you have to lose, the braver you re for standing up. That's why Batman is superior to Superman, and that's why I am infinitely smarter then you.'

I am a genius. I have won.

'Pffft! Whatever. I'll bet Batman won't be too loud about his superiority when Superman is belting seven shades of shit out of him.” 

? Craig Silvey, Jasper Jones

Superman has gotten his ass kicked, a lot

[wowowowo 132]

Hey I was wondering if my OC is a Mary Sue

Okay his name is burning passion he is obsessed with anything on fire or exploding

He also is very agitated very quickly and has a bit of a foul mouth.

He often bites off more than he can chew because he can't turn down a challenge because he's a bit arrogant so he usually ends up losing.

[IlikeBoris 13]

Hey I was wondering if my OC is a Mary Sue

Okay his name is burning passion he is obsessed with anything on fire or exploding

He also is very agitated very quickly and has a bit of a foul mouth.

He often bites off more than he can chew because he can't turn down a challenge because he's a bit arrogant so he usually ends up losing.

 

He might be a borderline.  Just pay really good attention to whether he's serving the story or if the story is serving him.

 

The pyromania: does he channel it in constructive ways or at least find a way to express it that doesn't hurt anyone?  If it is a problem, does he get properly chastised?

 

Is he shunned for his language?  Or is he among ponies that are a little less sensitive than what are typically shown on the show?

 

Pay attention to how the challenges are balanced so that they are interesting.  There are Sues where everything goes wrong for them instead of everything going right.  An easy mark to look for is if he should be pitied.

[Bendy 1,821]

What do you think of Mary Sues (Gary Stue if a male) in fan fiction? 

 

As in a character that's rather overpowered, because she was trained to be a Spartan Warrior, is better at magic than Twilight Sparkle and everypony loves them? For example, typical overpowered alicorn OC.

 

Well, in general I dislike overpowered characters, unless their enemies are stronger than they are. So cunning and a good plan is what is needed, not I am 'superpony' therefore nothing can stop me to save the day.

 

And is... well likable and not getting all the ladies... every time.

Edited August 9, 2014 by Rush

[Visual Spectrum 1,932]

I don't like overpowered characters, but if someone wants to make one, I won't stop them. I hate role playing with mary-sues, and I hate fanfictions staring, them, though. 

 

An overpowered character can work in a story, but only if they are a villian. (In my opinion.) I mean a challenge is always good. 

[Handmade 46]

Most of the pictures of Mary Sue OC's I've seen lack a significant amount of depth and proper planning for their given abilities. Most of these I see have been made by very young people, such as 11-13. Take this for example.

 

Edited August 10, 2014 by Brother

[Midnight Gaze 131]

I think that person posted that as a joke...

 

Plus, not all 11-13 year olds make bad OCs. I think that a Mary Sue is only acceptable when s/he is being used to make fun of them.

[Lightning Bliss 1,674]

I hate OP to be honest, because OP usually means they surpass everyone including their rivals.

[Pinkamena-Pills 6,839]

Mary Sues are Mary Sues. I don't care if someone makes one or doesn't as its their story.

If-fact sometimes a Mary Sue-like character can be used as a 'wall to climb' by the protagonist or what have you. 

Also a OP Mary Sue can be used as a 'inpenetrable-wall' like part to a narrative,where the entertainment comes from the fact that the Mary Sue in question just curb stomps everything/everyone they face to the point where its either comedic or gives you have 'underdog feels' for the ones who face this OP Mary Sue character. 

[Kbblender 122]

I really like Mary Sue protagonists when they're in the kind of story that doesn't take itsself seriously at all.  Like in The Cassandra Crossovers, or as you delve further into the story "A Dream".  Beautiful.

[Pripyat Pony 2,608]

I don't like them at all cuz a Mary Sue character can kill an RP stone dead. On the other forum that I RP on, Mary Sues are forbidden completely. Believe me, I have been in RPs where someone's Mary Sue just made the entire RP completely unfun by winning everything, making the entire RP all about her and stopping everyone else from doing anything cuz she'd just fly in and save the day. And in fanfic, a Mary Sue character just makes it as boring as watching paint dry.

[Banul 3,831]

Applejack tagged in a thread for Mary Sues? My reaction:

 

That aside, strong characters are important to me in the entertainment I like. I can overlook a weak story if it has great characters. Mary Sues are flat, boring, and don't make for good characters. As a result, if a really important character with lots of screen time is a Mary Sue, it's often a deal breaker for me.

[Twotlet Sprekle 23]

My OC is in no way a mary sue, she is twilight's doppelganger. unlike twilight, she is poor, homeless. but, she has much better street cred and skills and can survive much longer than twilight on much less. she is good in some ways, bad in some ways. this makes for the perfect oc. though when your oc is a doppelganger like mine, you tend to get a bit of people saying it isnt truly an oc.

[HorsesandMOARGaloar 300]

Mary Sues have too much power, are too perfect, and always win. (?)

 

And they exist only to appease the author, without providing any value to the story but to fulfill the author's fantasies with the main character or the story.

 

This is why people hate/dislike Mary Sues.

[Thunderlane 550]

I think this explains it pretty well

[Zekromic 1,054]

Why hate mary sues? over idealistic, flawless, they solve all the problems, take too much spotlight, they are liked by all characters, they don't make mistakes, they don't develop well, most of the time they attempt to sympathize with them with a dark story or are exclusively victimized, overall, boring and uninteresting characters.

Now I have a question, will FiM would even been popular if the mane6 where mary sues? certainly not, they are all different, they all have virtues, talents and flaws. 

PD: Twily IS NOT a mary sue 

[Professor Annabella 330]

Because a realistic character has flaws. That's the answer. Also, a original character has flaws. Sometimes people forget the 'O' in 'OC' and this is just for OC's in general, instead of all Mary Sues in general. O stands for original, and it's unoriginal to have a perfect character. What makes the character, in my eyes, is the flaws it has and has to conquer. Your character should have a story to them, hence BACKSTORY. What do all good stories have? A beginning, middle, end, plot, problem, solution, climax, ending... Do any of these sound familiar? Maybe not a few of those things, since usually we write all of our OC's life, but what I am mainly saying is that flaws create problems in your OC's story, and when you have that, you get a interesting plot for your character.

 

Hey, if I was a Mary Sue, I wouldn't need to work for all I have, or earn things, WHICH MAKES YOU APPRECIATE THEM MORE. Same with a character, if your character had to deal with flaws in order to get the things they have, then they will be generally more appreciated as a character. If your character just has everything handed to them, they are hardly any interesting.

Edited August 10, 2014 by Star-Lord

[Jeric 46,866]

What do you think of Mary Sues (Gary Stue if a male) in fan fiction?

 

This is not a fan fic issue at all. I read like a mad man, and I run across the 'perfect character' crap in traditional and self published works. Sometimes authors think that if they make a character have physical character traits that aren't perfect (overweight, unattractive, sick). They feel that such characteristics will be enough. I hate that.

 

You want to create a non Mary Sue, there is a fairly easy template for new writers

 

Relate a flaw to a strength. You see this in the Mane Six all of the time. Here are two examples using basic ideas

• A character who is a business success due to his ability to analyze people makes his a near genius, but this trait alienates hm from nurturing any personal connections in his life. 
• A loving and motherly type that excels in the home, but actually comes across as bossy and annoying outside of parenting. 

Those two examples create an internal to external conflict where a defining characteristic and virtue becomes a flaw.

 

 

Give the character a phobia, weakness, or realistic memory that holds them back. DON'T OVER SELL THIS.

 

Set up the character's flaw as a pet peeve of another character. Instant conflict.

 

Don't fully grow the character out of a weakness. Let it linger, or create new issues within the falling and rising action of the story.

 

If you write a story where you know how it is expected to resolve itself, stop and think of this: what skills, attitude, or mindset will the  character will need to have to survive or grow.  Now time to do a 180 and ask this.  Can that trait be one of their flaws at the start of the tale?

 

 

Play with those and you will have a foundation of a more solid character.

[Pripyat Pony 2,608]

Plus, if you give your character a flaw like being rude, bossy, annoying or mean, you have to make other characters react realistically. For example, one of my OCs Diego tends to prank other ponies cuz he's an attention seeker. I don't write him as having other ponies always smile indulgently; I write him as being alone a lot of the time cuz other ponies get irritated and think he's a nuisance. He might have powerful magic, but seeing as he's drunk a lot, he can't always concentrate enough to use it properly. I really hate people writing a character who has bad traits and yet is loved by all, cuz it's just not realistic.

[Tao 8,243]

Ahhhh the Mary/Gary Sue...

 

This hits and plages all fandoms,  not just MLP,  which

yes many a fan have made OC's for this fandom and also

some of them have been given a sort of light of their

own in this branch.  Hell even i got a few laying around

in the many voices of my brain.  Which as said

 

Flaws: We all got flaws,  none of us are born prefect!

Room to Grow:  I like it when writers of any show/cartoon/anime or

etc gives their char's room to grow,  make miskets and such which

adds some depth to said cannon/oc in truth in my book.

History: One trait i see is that well come oc's are given this

dark history to explain why the way they are.  "My mother was

killed by a random dragon."  "I lost my leg due to a farming thing...."

"I'm half this thing so I don't belong..." Your OC does not

need to have this deep dark history to make them interesting

to other ppl/readers.  Its up to as a writer to give your oc

a breathe of true life!

[ponytheorist 181]

In my experience, YES! There is...

 

Superman!

 

Superman isn't a mary sue. Mary sue: someone who doesn't get challenged by the narritive

 

Superman might be really powerful, he is never SO powerful that he can easily destroy his enemies. The narritive is still challenging him, so because of that, Superman isn't a mary sue  

[Jonquil 20]

Hate? Nah. Boredom? Yes.

 

When it comes to fanfiction, the problem is that I'm in the position of the reader and a Mary Sue is mostly fulfilling for a writer. I don't expect perfection because I know those writing fanfiction do it as a pleasant pastime or are still inexperienced, but I do expect that they care about entertaining, amusing, or enlightening readers. I read for fun, and Mary Sues generally aren't fun to read about for reasons already stated in this thread.

 

For people just starting out, balancing actually finishing the story with a more complex character might not be something they think about yet. I might point out some ways that things could be made more interesting if they seem open to it, but otherwise I tend to move on to something else and let them have their fun. If they're serious about writing, they'll grow on their own. If not, no harm done.

 

Better than fiction with no paragraphs and a striking lack of periods.

[Bird Mom 900]

In my opinion, an OC is a pony/human/other entity or being that represents you on the inside, and in some cases the outside. The OP of the OC has the right to slap a pair of wings AND a horn on there if they please. Us bronies are about LOVE & TOLERANCE. Not crying and whining about someone's ugly alicorn OC that is perfect in any and all ways, or that the black and red demon pony is evil for the sake of being evil. ♥ and tolerance is what his fandom is about and us bronies/pegasisters need to express that WAY more thoroughly. I mean seriously, we people have the nerve to watch the most girliest show known to the Earth but we can't show a hint of common sense to go with it? Mary Sues are FINE because it is a reflection of that person. Making fun of an OC is pretty much making fun of a person! But in my opinion taking Twilight to princess-hood was a bit to far. She wouldn't have done it without her friends who got nothing except an invite to the coronation. Applejack isn't a Mary-Sue. She barely get's enough screen time. 

[Hive King 2,001]

@,

You fail to understand that if they make a crappy character, they should know about it instead of not improving. They can't improve if they don't know. 

[Bird Mom 900]

@,

You fail to understand that if they make a crappy character, they should know about it instead of not improving. They can't improve if they don't know. 

It's okay to tell them, they have the right to make their character what they want. They have their own free will to change it if they want, we are in no place to say their OC sucks.