Why do people call Princess Luna sympathetic?

[Mywas 687]

She is clearly not.

Her reasons For becoming Nightmare Moon were rather childish, "People sleep in my night shift so I will kill them all". Not to mention the fact that Unlike Scar who was treated as a second to Mufasa she and Celestia were treated as equals so her jealousy is pointless and childish.

 

 

Even SEPHIROTH is more sympathetic. "Mah Mommy is a test tupe" is better than "People sleep when I work"

[Forlong 1,725]

Even SEPHIROTH is more sympathetic. "Mah Mommy is a test tupe" is better than "People sleep when I work"

 

Did Sephiroth get ignored for his brave deeds in the war?  Did he get overshined by his own sister, despite contently standing by her side and risking his own life?  No?  Than he is not more sympathetic than Luna.

 

Luna had to deal with being completely ignored for all her hard work.  Putting forth her best and letting her own life on the line for subjects that pretended that she did not exist and a sister that treated her problems like nothing to think about.  There is also the fact that the Nightmare Forces were manipulating her and playing to her weaknesses.  You have read the comics, haven't you?

 

This is the biggest insult to the Princess of the Night since Hasbro refused her a rehabilitation arc.

[ShadOBabe 18,984]

sister that treated her problems like nothing to think about

 

I've seen zero proof of that.

For all we know, Luna just bottled all her problems insides herself until she blew up.

Which people totally do. And they get angry that others don't just magically know what they're thinking.

 

I'm not ones of those extremists for either side.

I think Luna is sympathetic. But I'm not one of her slavering worshipers that treat her like a blameless angel either.

Bitterness is understandable when you feel like others don't care about what you do. But that does not justify you when you put yourself before EVERYONE ELSE and take extreme measures (like hurting others) to get what you want. Even if Luna was manipulated by the Shadow Forces like in the comic, they still needed her to toss away her obligations to her family, her people, and her job before they could control her.

 

And if she was introverted with her true feelings, which I totally see her doing, then she would have felt alone with them. That is then how she was manipulated. That is the sympathetic part.

 

So in summary:

Luna bottled up her anger inside, and if you follow the comics, dark forces started twisting the situation to make her more and more bitter until she finally blew up. Sympathetic.

Luna still made the conscious decision that HER happiness was more important than the lives of ever stallion, mare, and foal in her kingdom, and she was going to get HER happiness if she had to forcibly wrest the control from her constant companion and only family member. Not sympathetic.

Edited April 17, 2014 by ShadOBabe

[Forlong 1,725]

I've seen zero proof of that.

Comics, main series, issue 17, page 8

And now you have seen proof.

 

Before you claim that the comics aren't canon:

http://andypriceart.deviantart.com/journal/Important-News-on-the-MLP-Comic-331014657

 

I was not stating my personal opinion, but what has actually been shown in canon material.

 

Well, my work here is done.

[XxConfusedUnicornxX 832]

Even if what Luna did is wrong, she had her reasons to become Nightmare Moon. Imagine if you were in her shoes. Being ignored by your older sister, subjects fear you and nobody is there to admire what you do. Celestia was never there for Luna 1000 years ago and Luna just bottled up her feelings. She probably thought that one day Celestia will be by her side as the big sister she is. But she didn't. So Luna got jealous and wanted her subjects to like her and her creations. 1000 years later after Nightmare Moon was defeated Luna took pity on the fillies with nightmares and also helps them see their mistakes just like Sweetie Belle when she ruined Rarity's dress. Luna came to her and showed her what would happen. Sweetie Belle learned her lesson, and ALL is well. Luna helped Scootaloo conquer her nightmares after Rainbow Dash's story.

 

So tell me, why do you judge Luna so much when you are blind to what Luna has been through and done?

[Nameless Knight 1,001]

 

 

 

Her reasons For becoming Nightmare Moon were rather childish, "People sleep in my night shift so I will kill them all".

How the hell would you fell if you, I don't know, Created something huge and magnificent! and no one cared.... they just walk right by it, all your hard work for nothing.

Edited April 18, 2014 by Flipturn

[ShadOBabe 18,984]

And now you have seen proof.

 

... Dude...

THAT PROVED ABSOLUTE ZILCH!!

 

You said that Celestia treated Luna's problems "like they were nothing".

To me that says that Celestia knew what was bugging her sister, but didn't care.

 

What you just showed me was Celestia NOT knowing what was bugging her sister and still being concerned about her acting weird.

Sounds completely normal to me. Most people in that situation wouldn't go, "Oh, my loved one is acting weird... Gee, they must harbor some deep, bitter resentment towards me and everyone around us and is slowly being manipulated into plotting to de-throne me and plunge the world into never ending darkness."

 

I see absolutely nothing here that makes your point any stronger.

Edited April 17, 2014 by ShadOBabe

[Forlong 1,725]

... Dude...

THAT PROVED ABSOLUTE ZILCH!!

 

You said that Celestia treated Luna's problems "like they were nothing".

To me that says that Celestia knew was was bugging her sister, but didn't care.

 

What you just showed me was Celestia NOT knowing what was bugging her sister and still being concerned about her acting weird.

Sounds completely normal to me. Most people in that situation wouldn't go, "Oh, my loved one is acting weird... Gee, they must harbor some deep, bitter resentment towards me and everyone around us and is slowly being manipulated into plotting to de-throne me and plunge the worl into never ending darkness."

 

I see absolutely nothing here that makes your point any stronger.

 

You can read, can't you?  Celestia talked about how Luna was being distant, yet let herself get distracted by what?  The prospect of adventure and getting laid.  There's the sign of a loving big sister and surrogate mother.

 

Wait, I didn't even need to do this?  You know why?  Because Celestia herself confirmed this as her fault in Princess Twilight Sparkle.  But what does the wise, benevolent monarch of Equestria know of how she runs her own country?

 

You can deny the forest for the trees all you want, canon information has said time and time again that Celestia done bucked up with her little sister.

Edited April 18, 2014 by Flipturn

[ShadOBabe 18,984]

 

Okay. Believe what you like.

I think you are incorrect and using bias to color everything else in order to lift a character you like above truth and fairness.

I've seen this enough in all fandoms. Have fun with it.

Edited April 17, 2014 by ShadOBabe

[Forlong 1,725]

Okay. Believe what you like.

I think you are incorrect and using bias to color everything else in order to lift a character you like above truth and fairness.

I've seen this enough in all fandoms. Have fun with it.

Cool story, bro.  Read the title.  It isn't asking if Luna was wrong or not, and I made no such argument.  The OP claims that Luna isn't sympathetic, which is an obvious lie.  Not because of interpretations of the character, but the fact that thousands of people find her sympathetic.

 

The OP goes on to say that Scare is more sympathetic, which is also a lie.  Scare had zero reason to ally himself with the hyenas and turn on his brother, beyond he wanted something because he wanted it.  It doesn't make him a bad character, just hard to sympathize with.  Villains don't have to be sympathetic.  It does help the characters, if they are sympathetic villains.  You are welcome to try and fail to prove me wrong on that.

 

To end it off, the OP claimed that the most insane video game villain is more sympathetic.  I think I already sufficiently demolished that absurd notion.

 

Short answer: Luna is sympathetic because her problems that lead to her fall are believable and relatible.  Any argument otherwise is basically saying this:

 

I do believe the thread can be dropped now.

[Nameless Knight 1,001]

Cool story, bro.  Read the title.  It isn't asking if Luna was wrong or not, and I made no such argument.  The OP claims that Luna isn't sympathetic, which is an obvious lie.  Not because of interpretations of the character, but the fact that thousands of people find her sympathetic.

 

That's the reason you are wrong, she isn't sympathetic, We are sympathetic towards her! I myself is Empathetic towards her.

because I am also out shined by my older sibling

well that is 1 reason you are wrong.....

[ShadOBabe 18,984]

 

 

Cool story, bro.  Read the title.  It isn't asking if Luna was wrong or not, and I made no such argument.

 

Yeah, I know. And I told the OP that I think Luna is sympathetic too.

I was talking to YOU. You said though that Celestia treated it like it was nothing and various other coloring of reality to make her come out as a bad/evil person. Or pony. Whatever. That is what I take issue with.

 

I also take issue with you acting like an @$$ for no reason, but that's neither here nor there.

It's the internet after all. You come to anticipate it.

[crazitaco 596]

I think OP is missing the point. Luna is not sympathetic because her actions as nightmare moon were justifiable, she's sympathetic because of her guilt and regret about it. She was corrupted into something she wasn't and became a monster. For 1000 years she was imprisoned in the moon because of the darkness that corrupted her. When she finally returned to her senses, she clearly felt remorse about what she had done. After being reunited with her sister, she's unable to adjust to a society 1000 years in the future and felt isolated.

Her "fall from grace" can be seen as a bit tragic, and people are always sympathetic to tragic characters.

I actually think her reasons for becoming nightmare moon are somewhat justifiable but still wrong. Its understandable why she felt angry, but you're right that her actions were selfish.

Edited April 17, 2014 by crazitaco

[XxConfusedUnicornxX 832]

I think you're all missing the point. Luna is not sympathetic because her actions as nightmare moon were justifiable, she's sympathetic because of her guilt and regret about it. She was corrupted into something she wasn't and became a monster. For 1000 years she was imprisoned in the moon because of the darkness that corrupted her. When she finally returned to her senses, she clearly felt remorse about what she had done. After being reunited with her sister, she's unable to adjust to a society 1000 years in the future and felt isolated.

Her "fall from grace" can be seen as a bit tragic, and people are always sympathetic to tragic characters.

I actually think her reasons for becoming nightmare moon are somewhat justifiable but still wrong. Its understandable why she felt angry, but you're right that her actions were selfish.

Maybe you should read what I said 12 comments above this one. It'll clear things up for you. I understand it's your opinion but you shouldn't really judge a character in that way. You should take some time to look at their past and pretend you are in their shoes to truly understand what they've been through.

[crazitaco 596]

Maybe you should read what I said 12 comments above this one. It'll clear things up for you. I understand it's your opinion but you shouldn't really judge a character in that way. You should take some time to look at their past and pretend you are in their shoes to truly understand what they've been through.

Eh, no. It didn't "clear things up" because that was entirely subjective. I understand what Luna's been through, i watched the first episode too you know. You're saying Luna is blameless because she was suffering?

I freakin love Luna (she's best princess!), but let's be honest, she was in the wrong too.

Do you know what she could have done? She could've talked to her sister about her issues.

We all have a choice, and there could've been a peaceful solution to her problem. But she allowed her emotions to fester inside her and I don't think she even tried to seek another alternative. Her heart sought vengeance and she turned into Nightmare Moon.

Celestia should've noticed and done something to help her sister, and where she went wrong is that she didn't see the signs or ignored them.

Luna's actions was clearly being driven by external dark forces though, like a normally peaceful dog being driven mad by rabies. So she really isn't the object of blame. And i love that she's sort of become this guardian angel of wisdom and guidance for the she sleeping ponies of equestria. I think its a perfect role for her.

So don't get me wrong, I'm not "judging" her so much as analyzing her and reasons why she's such a sympathetic character to so many people.

Edited April 17, 2014 by crazitaco

[Mywas 687]

 

Did Sephiroth get ignored for his brave deeds in the war? Did he get overshined by his own sister, despite contently standing by her side and risking his own life? No? Than he is not more sympathetic than Luna.

 

Luna had to deal with being completely ignored for all her hard work. Putting forth her best and letting her own life on the line for subjects that pretended that she did not exist and a sister that treated her problems like nothing to think about. There is also the fact that the Nightmare Forces were manipulating her and playing to her weaknesses. You have read the comics, haven't you?

 

This is the biggest insult to the Princess of the Night since Hasbro refused her a rehabilitation arc.

No but Sephiroth went crazy by finding out that his mother is a test tupe and already had issues before finding out.

 

Also how did they treat her like she didn't excist? Just because they slept during the night doesn't mean that they hate her.

[Jeric 46,835]

This one is easy. They basically modeled Luna after your typical redemptive agonist template but removed some of the items that are exclusive to main protagonists or duagonists. Fall from grace, redemption, inner struggle/dark half, striking and powerful physical characteristics, passive and active flaws, loved but not worshipped, social inadequacies, intelligence, and either relatable motivations or malleable motivations. There is literally a list of do's and don'ts on creating characters like Luna. Like with most of MLP, the show stops short of over explanation and allows your mind to fill in gaps.

 

They stopped short of creating too many flaws so that people that relate on some level have empathy and understanding without over pitying Luna.

[Forlong 1,725]

That's the reason you are wrong, she isn't sympathetic, We are sympathetic towards her! I myself is Empathetic towards her.

because I am also out shined by my older sibling

well that is 1 reason you are wrong.....

So...Luna isn't sympathetic...even though people find her sympathetic.  By your own admission.  So you admit that she is sympathetic, but still isn't because of magic breezie dust.

[Misty Shadow 7,127]

Apparently, you didn't watch "For Whom the Sweetie Belle Toils", where in said episode, Luna sympathizes with Sweetie Belle's situation and helps her throughout the episode's entirety.

 

You also apparently glossed over some of the dialogue in Final Fantasy VII, because Sephiroth was once loved and admired. Comparing Luna to him is like comparing Ultimecia from Final Fantasy VIII to Celestia.

[Mywas 687]

How the hell would you fell if you, I don't know, Created something huge and magnificent! and no one cared.... they just walk right by it, all your hard work for nothing.

I wouldn't care because I don't do stuff to get everyones attention. I do it because I enjoy it.

If Luna wants to spend her life trying to please others then be my guest but don't expect me to respect her.

[Nine 707]

If you think of the comics as canon there's a reason for Luna's being irrational when she became Nightmare Moon, but even if you don't she's sympathetic as a depressed character. Depression and rational behavior are frequently at odds so ..

I know that's relatable for a lot of fans.

[man dude man 555]

See Nightmare Moon is like an alter ego, I believe she (Luna) has become understanding and sympathetic as she appears in the dreams and nightmares of the young fillies, being able to relate sitiuationally, and helps them in connecting the dots and adjusting their misperception of what they believe to be a much more harsh reality than it is in actuality, she related because her misperception is what guided her to shrowd Equestria in darkness, and she looks to prevent others from facing her pain, fear, and darkness. She has a repressed jealousy of her older sister, but clearly admires her, I believe there is significance in her relation with the younger ponies, and often sees herself as a filly perhaps, and has a sense of sympathy for their pain and sorrows.

[Shanks 10,811]

I think there is more to the story than they may be letting on, yes I think that the darkness that caused Luna to become Nightmare Moon was motivated in part by jealousy by feeling like she is being overshadowed but while I am not saying Celestia is to blame there are two sides to every story. Maybe Luna had some concerns and she may have felt that Celestia was not listening to her, Celestia could have been so busy with her duties as ruler that she may have been unable to make enough time to address Luna's concerns. When we are busy and under stress we can sometimes miss certain things right in front of us and this might have been the case for Celestia as well. It dosen't excuse what Luna has done but that and her struggles to redeem herself and fit into modern, mainstream pony society after 1000 year banishment do make her a sympathetic character. 

[Metemponychosis 1,237]

To be very honest, I have trouble conciliating Luna's dreamwalking powers to her being all depressed because ponies were sleeping at night.

 

To me it seems that she was too self-centered for her own good and Celestia's comment on that on the last issue of the comic makes me think that Luna was refusing help, wallowing in self pity. That doesn't make her suffering any less painful, but I think that the flashback in the season's opener only hurt her even more. The way I see it, she is just someone that didn't seek support against her inner turmoil and then she fell victim to "depression", the Nightmares.

 

To me she is just a victim, of herself, of her sister that couldn't manage to break her shell, of her job as warden of the night, of circumstances as a whole. So, do I think she is sympathetic? If what I said is true and the parallel I did with depression is true, then, yes. I think so.

 

EDIT: I forgot something: it probably didn't help that she had an older sister that other ponies where seeing as more important than her. But I don't blame Celestia, or even the ponies. I blame Luna for not seeing her own worth. And I use "blame" in a very loose way because, if Celestia did seem as more important... Well, poor Luna, alone in her dark corner while everypony was all over Celestia.

 

I just don't think that the show and the comics give us enough information to assume with certainty that this is what happened.

Edited April 17, 2014 by moonlightavenger

[Mywas 687]

that and her struggles to redeem herself and fit into modern, mainstream pony society after 1000 year banishment do make her a sympathetic character.

She is lucky they didn't excute her for her hissy fit.

If I was Celestia I would have threw her in Tartarus for being a massive idiot