hard questions, of us all.

[skysweep 541]

Hi there, this is another topic based off another topic I just made, Im doing this to keep the responses seperate, but if this is not good, I guess I'll just combine them. 

 

Do read the initial post here to find out what's going on. 

 

http://mlpforums.com/topic/104829-what-does-this-mean-to-you/

 

But basically, I am polling around, looking at the fandom and its people. 

 

Why this topic is separate is due to the fact the questions I would put here are a little more......hard to answer. You dont have to answer if you dont like it. The other topic has (or will have) nicer question(s). 

 

 

Well, still reading? Ok, thank you so much.......

 

 

(1)First question, this will be one of loyalty, and its not as easy as you might think. With this world today being in turmoil, it may one day trigger a war. We are all part of different nations, all over the world. And I am pretty sure if a war does break out, we would most likely be conscripted into the army. Here comes the difficult part of the question.

While on duty, you come across a soldier from the opposing army. He/She is a conscript, like you. He is Unarmed, having lost their weapon. Looking round the person, you realise its another conscripted brony. However, your officer gives you the order that the person is an enemy soldier, and must be shot. What would you do, and why? 

Edited July 20, 2014 by skysweep

[Luna 831 466]

Put down my gun or try to disarm him.

[skysweep 541]

Put down my gun or try to disarm him.

Um....I did mention he lost his weapon....soo....

[Luna 831 466]

Sorry it is late talk to them

[Pastel 7,630]

Dat question.

I'd shoot him. He's an enemy above all.

Edited July 21, 2014 by Blobulle

[IridscentNionios 1,420]

Ask if we could take him as a prisoner. Otherwise kill him.

[Fractured 2,684]

Shoot him; there's no reason I should be in a war if i'm unable to do what needs to be done. We both know the stakes full well; i'd expect him to do the same to me, in all honesty.

[ReGen 1,466]

Boy, what are the odds, huh?

 

But, uh... If he's an enemy soldier, wouldn't I have shot him anyways, since he's an enemy and we're in the middle of a war? And also, how would I have known that the person's a brony? Surely I didn't just strike up a conversation and immediately ask them if they were a brony... Of course I wouldn't have! It's a war! (And by the way, who just asks that out of nowhere? Seems a bit odd.)

[Anneal 2,197]

If the soldier lost his weapons and was either taken prisoner, deserted, or otherwise out of the battle, then he or she is considered a non-combatnant. It is against the Geneva Conventions to kill a non-combatnant or cruelly treat a prisoner.

 

If a higher authority gives you an action that clearly violates the Geneva Conventions, you may choose not to do that action. This has nothing to do with being a brony or not.

Edited July 20, 2014 by Original Suri

[IridscentNionios 1,420]

If the soldier lost his weapons and was either taken prisoner, deserted, or otherwise out of the battle, then he or she is considered a non-combatnant. It is against the Geneva Conventions to kill a non-combatnant or cruelly treat a prisoner.

 

If a higher authority gives you an action that clearly violates the Geneva Conventions, you may choose not to do that action. This has nothing to do with being a brony or not.

Thanks for this.... i really didn't know this.

[Malinter 3,064]

Send him back to his side to get a weapon and try again.We might both be conscripted scrubs but if we're engaged in this foolishness, the least we can do is do it properly.

Edited July 20, 2014 by Shire Pony Malinter

[skysweep 541]

Well, just to clarify the point of the question is: when in this situation, ordered to do something you know goes against all the values you have as a brony, will you do it for your country?

 

Also, I mentioned you searched him for weapons, thats why you know he is a brony and that he is unarmed. You specifically searched him. You know.

[IridscentNionios 1,420]

Family and country over fandom but not humanity and dignity over country.

[Anneal 2,197]

Well, just to clarify the point of the question is: when in this situation, ordered to do something you know goes against all the values you have as a brony, will you do it for your country?

Also, I mentioned you searched him for weapons, thats why you know he is a brony and that he is unarmed. You specifically searched him. You know.

But again, all countries recognize the Geneva Conventions, so in the present day, doing an action such as shooting a non-combatnant is bound to get your court-martialed, even if your whole group did it. Claiming that you were following orders is no longer justifiable as a defense in a court martial since 1947/48, and as shown in the Nuremburg and Nazi trials.

 

And I haven't heard of a brony from a terrorist group before, so...

 

Extra Note: And I did say present day. If this was pre-WWII, it might have been different. For this to actually be a choice, you'll probably have to go almost a hundred years back.

Edited July 20, 2014 by Original Suri

[Kel_Grym 1,917]

 

 

And I haven't heard of a brony from a terrorist group before, so...

 

 

There is a first time for everything.

[Justin_Case001 4,881]

I have a strange feeling that my answer to this question will effect my beginning stats in the game...

 

In all seriousness, I would shoulder my weapon, walk up to him, hold up my fist and say "brohoof."

 

I'm grateful for all of the soldiers who have fought and died for my country so that I can have a good quality of life and freedom, but I don't believe in fighting wars personally.  I'm not going to kill someone because some dude ordered me to.  I know nothing about that other soldier.  If I knew him personally and knew he was a rapist or something, I wouldn't have a problem killing him.  But just because he's from an opposing country doesn't mean that he deserves to die, and I just wouldn't be comfortable killing him.  If I had to die for that principle, so be it.  I mean, hell, my conscience was eating at me after the seige of Whiterun.  I just wanted to buy Hejerim, so I joined the Stormcloaks, but Balgruuf's men were good people.  They didn't deserve to die.  So that's when I went to Ulfric and told him to shove his war where the sun don't shine.  I quit.

 

Let's see, that means I favor Compassion, so, I guess my starting stats will be low strength and HP, high dexterity and magic.  Which probably means I'm screwed.

[SwigglySwiggly 358]

Patriotism is a joke, I'll let him live.

Patriotism used to be loving your country, but now days patriotism is loving your government.

Love your country but hate your government. Me and the enemy will skip into the horizon away into the sunset.

[Sanctified Absence 126]

Depends on how well I know the officer and how they would react. If the officer was going to shoot the enemy soldier regardless of my choice it would be better for me to shoot them instead of having them shot and then myself punished.

Edited July 20, 2014 by Sanctified Absence

[firetorn 187]

I'm pretty sure conscription wouldn't be a thing... not in Canada anyhow. But if I were in the situation described I would suggest to the officer that we take the soldier captive as he is unarmed. I would only kill the soldier if there was say a death sentence for disobeying orders (which there probably wouldn't be cos Canadian) because in the end if its between me and a stranger I'm afraid I will always choose me.

[skysweep 541]

Boy, what are the odds, huh?

 

But, uh... If he's an enemy soldier, wouldn't I have shot him anyways, since he's an enemy and we're in the middle of a war? And also, how would I have known that the person's a brony? Surely I didn't just strike up a conversation and immediately ask them if they were a brony... Of course I wouldn't have! It's a war! (And by the way, who just asks that out of nowhere? Seems a bit odd.)

Well, just to answer your little side note, I do have a reason for asking. Id probably just allay everyone's concerns as well.

 

See, well.....I am a brony who chose to try and do things that are great. Things that would make a difference. I developed things for defence, work in environmental science, the lot of it. But I eventually realized that the things I was doing would not help at all. Not one bit. Why? Well, with a world in this state, all my work would end up going to feed that big hungry monster we call a society. In the end, no matter how brilliant, we are all just pawns in a game. 

 

So I endeavoured to make a difference. To make this world a better place. Where else to draw inspiration from than the brony fandom? 

 

Some of you, in both threads, said that there is a hope for a better society. I decided not to hope. But to do. Im using my assorted works and projects to allow me into that machine, to make a few tweaks, one that will make a difference. But of course, I want to find the essence of what makes a brony, or in fact any fandom tick. It seems like the place most people gather, at least intellectually nowadays. So what I want to do is to learn about the people. Find out what makes a good world, and what are people willing to do to get that. 

 

Lots of people out there are lost causes. Sucked into the mindset of society. No creativity, no freedom, locked into a belief of "manliness" and other stereotypes. Pointless to go treasure hunting there. 

 

Thus, im here, finding out about what makes a change. I want nothing more out of making a change than to live in a world like Equestria. Or more like it, in any case. What do you think? Is it worth it, is this what people want? I mean the beliefs of one person is not one of all. 

Edited July 20, 2014 by skysweep

[Shanks 10,816]

If there is a draft I will refuse to fight, I am not coward just the opposite but I can't in good conscience fight in a war I don't believe in and I don't believe in any of these senseless wars being fought right now.

[Anneal 2,197]

Well, just to answer your little side note, I do have a reason for asking. Id probably just allay everyone's concerns as well.

 

See, well.....I am a brony who chose to try and do things that are great. Things that would make a difference. I developed things for defence, work in environmental science, the lot of it. But I eventually realized that the things I was doing would not help at all. Not one bit. Why? Well, with a world in this state, all my work would end up going to feed that big hungry monster we call a society. In the end, no matter how brilliant, we are all just pawns in a game. 

 

So I endeavoured to make a difference. To make this world a better place. Where else to draw inspiration from than the brony fandom? 

 

Some of you, in both threads, said that there is a hope for a better society. I decided not to hope. But to do. Im using my assorted works and projects to allow me into that machine, to make a few tweaks, one that will make a difference. But of course, I want to find the essence of what makes a brony, or in fact any fandom tick. It seems like the place most people gather, at least intellectually nowadays. So what I want to do is to learn about the people. Find out what makes a good world, and what are people willing to do to get that. 

 

Lots of people out there are lost causes. Sucked into the mindset of society. No creativity, no freedom, locked into a belief of "manliness" and other stereotypes. Pointless to go treasure hunting there. 

 

Thus, im here, finding out about what makes a change. I want nothing more out of making a change than to live in a world like Equestria. Or more like it, in any case. What do you think? Is it worth it, is this what people want? I mean the beliefs of one person is not one of all.

 

Even if a passage seems dark, there must be light at one end or another. I refuse to be pessimatic about humanity, even if we sometimes act foolishly. There must be a solution for everything, and if we want to make a difference, we need to be different ourselves.

 

If we lose hope in humanity, then we have no reason to live anymore. Which is why we still hope. If we didn't hope and dream, we couldn't have come this far to begin with. If you came here because you thought bronies were better, then you're wrong, because you're missing out on some million-some people out there, brony or not, who do have good intentions and want to create something instead of staying in their small little hole.

 

It seems our generation is being more pessimistic and losing hope every day. I'm pretty dismayed myself when I see someone commit suicide or just break down completely. I think most of us are forgetting what's keepingus together anymore.

[Hovershy 3,814]

If he's an enemy, I would take him as a prisoner! I don't care what my commanding officer says. I can't shoot a fellow brony!    Plus, he's unarmed, seem's kinda ruthless to shoot someone who is unarmed, even if they are an enemy.

[Admiral Regulus 2,769]

My initial thought would be this: "But sir, I don't think we should do this. Isn't it against the Geneva convention to kill an unarmed soldier?"

 

And look, I'm right.

 

Persons taking no active part in the hostilities, including members of armed forces who have laid down their arms and those placed hors de combat by sickness, wounds, detention, or any other cause, shall in all circumstances be treated humanely, without any adverse distinction founded on race, colour, religion or faith, sex, birth or wealth, or any other similar criteria. To this end, the following acts are and shall remain prohibited at any time and in any place whatsoever with respect to the above-mentioned persons:

• violence to life and person, in particular murder of all kinds, mutilation, cruel treatment and torture;
• taking of hostages;
• outrages upon dignity, in particular humiliating and degrading treatment; and
• the passing of sentences and the carrying out of executions without previous judgment pronounced by a regularly constituted court, affording all the judicial guarantees which are recognized as indispensable by civilized peoples.

[Anneal 2,197]

My initial thought would be this: "But sir, I don't think we should do this. Isn't it against the Geneva convention to kill an unarmed soldier?"

 

And look, I'm right.

I said that before. >.>

 

And bronies existed since 2010, so all Geneva Conventions still apply.

 

If the PoW attempted to injure or kill someone, though, then shooting him would be self-defense. It's recommended to keep PoWs alive, though, since feigning surrender is also a war crime and violates the Geneva Convention. (Espionage, escape, and attempting suicide are technically permitted, but if the person is caught, they can possibly be subject to the country's courts.)

 

Civilians who had become combatants (militia) should receive similar treatment when surrendered or captured.

Edited July 20, 2014 by Original Suri