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Twilight has become too perfect for me to care about her anymore


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Agreed. I've felt the same during some s4 episodes.

Her alicorn transformation, and the "forced" princess destiny, hasn't been handled all that well, being somehow detrimental to her character. Monochromatic.

Said kind of behaviour is not "perfection" by any means. It's just narrowed, predictable and quite repetitive.

Again, the lazy way.

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Not sure how a character bettering themselves and achieving a new role equals perfection. There was absolutely nothing in season 4 that would lead me to believe that Twilight is now this beacon of perfection. I strongly disagree with your notion.

 

 

 

Agreed. I've felt the same during some s4 episodes.

Her alicorn transformation, and the "forced" princess destiny, hasn't been handled all that well, being somehow detrimental to her character. Monochromatic.

Said kind of behaviour is not "perfection" by any means. It's just narrowed, predictable and quite repetitive.

Again, the lazy way.

The show was going for nearly 3 years before they did that. Pretty sure they had Twilight go through a lot before her ascension and when you look back on it, it was obvious they were building up to something. At least they are doing something with it now, unlike what some others might have done. The only abrupt part to it was the episode itself, it should have been a two parter because the episode itself was rushed, I will fully admit that, but I see nothing but good things from it otherwise. How has it hurt her character? Changes happen and I have yet to see any negative changes to Twilight herself.

 

I am honestly very surprised to see that stuff being said still after season 4. This is all my opinion on the matter though.

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The problem with Equestria Girls Twilight Sparkle is that she's just artificially stripped down to a vulnerable human teenager. She loses several pieces of her FIM character in this.

 

It seems the problem with FIM Twilight is that she might become the Superman of this series.

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I think it's not about bettering herself in this case.

Twilight didn't gained any complexity, nor a new interesting trait. On the contrary, she seems to be losing distinctive traits (personality) by the minute. Becoming this predictable stereotype. With barely any personality, but a set of rules and paths about the "right way" instead. The Celestia's way.

That little and narrow corridor, the right way? Really? Really boring.

Reason why I used to like Discord. It's unpredictable, with so much personality, with so many personalities, all together. Well, except for the last season finale. Deluding a chaotic being into submission, really? That was unpredictably lazy, regarding the plot line.

Back on topic. She might look like Twilight, but it isn't herself, not entirely.

Do you get me? It's going soulless, as Celestia. Probably because Twilight is an alicorn princess now.
 

 

It's time for some development, and a good use to said royal tittle, besides making money out of toys and merchandising. Don't you think?

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I think it's not about bettering herself in this case.

 

Twilight didn't gained any complexity, nor a new interesting trait. On the contrary, she seems to be losing distinctive traits (personality) by the minute. Becoming this predictable stereotype. With barely any personality, but a set of rules and paths about the "right way" instead. The Celestia's way.

 

That little and narrow corridor, the right way? Really? Really boring.

 

Reason why I used to like Discord. It's unpredictable, with so much personality, with so many personalities, all together. Well, except for the last season finale. Deluding a chaotic being into submission, really? That was unpredictably lazy, regarding the plot line.

Back on topic. She might look like Twilight, but it isn't herself, not entirely.

 

Do you get me? It's going soulless, as Celestia. Probably because Twilight is an alicorn princess now.

 

 

It's time for some development, and a good use to said royal tittle, besides making money out of toys and merchandising. Don't you think?

 

She's learning to be a leader/princess and indirectly to be Celestia(and Luna's?) successor over all of Equestria. How is this bad for her character development? We still see her struggle with problems, usually receiving or being assisted by her friends to complete a task like always.

 

Like others on this thread, I find the hypocrisy concerning perfection in us very annoying. We say we strive for it and yet hate those who are closer than us to it. Be it fiction or reality.

 Celestia isn't shown as much outside her role as Teacher or Ruler, so we can't judge her own personality just as we shouldn't judge Twilight when she grows from a simple student to a friend and leader.

 

Why do you think we follow leaders in the first place? We follow them because we believe they will know what to do in certain situations. While it may be common in the USA to distrust our government(which deserves it but that's not the point) that doesn't mean we should dislike any changes in them that would be for the better. 

 

About Discord and his 'submission', that wasn't at all similar to where he became friends with Fluttershy right? Not at all similar...  >_> He realized that if he didn't always do what he wanted, he could have friends and not be lonely, hated, and feared his whole life.

 

 He was tricked into seeing a chance to have a friend who would let him do what he wished with his powers. Said 'friend' betrayed him and he was retaught that lesson that he first learned when he became friends with Fluttershy. Ultimately it's an understandable event in his personal story and allows the plot to avoid having to do a weird mini-plot to get Twilight's key.

 

Overall I'm expecting plenty of development on all the royalty and side characters in Season 5. Be this by political mayhem or simple Friendship Council journey's I won't care. The Development is somewhat required if they want a part of their fan-base to continue watching.

 

 While Twilight may have changed, it's no different that say a character from another good show or video game who grew and changed from what they started out as. Besides, in games we work towards making our character as powerful as can be so we can defeat anything.

 

I would rather prefer Twilight to eventually become a Mary Sue than to never, ever have changed her personality in anyway from season 1. At least as a Mary Sue she would probably provide more entertainment that just another 'Friendship = Autowin with no real character development' show like Carebears or Dorra.

 

TL:DR? Hasbro wants money, just like every other company.

Edited by WindyParadise
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I would rather prefer Twilight to eventually become a Mary Sue than to never, ever have changed her personality in anyway from season 1. At least as a Mary Sue she would probably provide more entertainment that just another 'Friendship = Autowin with no real character development' show like Carebears or Dorra.

 

 

 

That notion just makes no sense to me. Twilight becoming a Mary Sue would do absolutely nothing for her character except make her dull and uninteresting. At least the Twilight of season 1 was relatable, and she was a character I could actually care about. Now, of course I would have expected her to develop past things like Lesson Zero, but I think she's "developed" a little too much. particularly when she's pulling expert skills she never displayed out of nowhere. 

 

How exactly am I supposed to be invested in any challenge Twilight has ahead of her if she's too perfect to fail? I can't. And that's exactly the issue I'm having with her now. I would have thought that actual Twilight fans would definitely want her to continuing to be the lovable character from her initial portrayal instead of this flawless, infallible goddess that no human being on Earth can possibly relate to. 

 

Also, who exactly is striving for perfection? Human perfection is an impossibility because humans are flawed by nature. I suppose you can try, but you'll never achieve it. 

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In magical duel she actually didn't really get any more stronger (or at least use any improved power against her.) She mealy used illusions to make her seem stronger.  In the finale she was actually using Celestia, Luna, and Cadance's powers too so she was not being Goku like it she was just the container of the powers.  I am actually glad to see her having grown as a character.  Remember the show is just not about power struggles.  There is everyday life issues where power has no bearing.


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Twilight didn't gained any complexity, nor a new interesting trait.
 
 

If the writers were brave they could introduce a new character in the season finale who proves to be useful defeating whatever evil they have to face there. Due to the new character's usefulness, Twilight could take her on as an advisor, and give her a chair in that circle of thrones (like the little chair Spike has).

 

This new advisor teaches Twilight some powerful new magic, but, slowly, as the season progresses, she starts to corrupt Twilight, making her act more and more out of character, and yearn for more power within Equestria's royal hierarchy. Her friends try to talk to her, but she pushes them away and grows ever more distant from them, and closer to this new advisor. This culminates in the season finale with Twilight becoming Nightmare Sparkle (merchandising opportunity!) and attempting to take over Equestria.

 

Nightmare Sparkle defeats Celestia and Luna in battle, imprisoning them. At the end, only five ponies stand against her - I'm sure you can guess who. The re-mane-ing 5 challenge her. She is poised to destroy them, but at the last moment (deus ex machina) Sunset Shimmer arrives and reminds Nightmare Sparkle of who she really is. And Nightmare Sparkle becomes Twilight Sparkle again. Order is restored.

 

By this point, EG3 will have probably been developed, and if it is seen to be the final part in the Equestria Girls story arc, then Sunset Shimmer could stay in Equestria, replacing the advisor, and keeping Twilight on the straight and narrow.

 

This gives Twilight the ultimate interesting trait: the dark side a.k.a. the Darth Vader a.k.a. the Macbeth.

 

And it gives us Sunset Shimmer, who I am very worried will just disappear from the MLP franchise should Equestria Girls come to an end.

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Also, who exactly is striving for perfection? Human perfection is an impossibility because humans are flawed by nature. I suppose you can try, but you'll never achieve it. 

 

Anybody who follows a code of ethics or religion? We strive to improve ourselves and remove our faults so that our life and the lives of our children will be easier. We strive to be like these perfect beings that we can relate too.

 

That notion just makes no sense to me. Twilight becoming a Mary Sue would do absolutely nothing for her character except make her dull and uninteresting. At least the Twilight of season 1 was relatable, and she was a character I could actually care about. Now, of course I would have expected her to develop past things like Lesson Zero, but I think she's "developed" a little too much. particularly when she's pulling expert skills she never displayed out of nowhere. 

 

How exactly am I supposed to be invested in any challenge Twilight has ahead of her if she's too perfect to fail? I can't. And that's exactly the issue I'm having with her now. I would have thought that actual Twilight fans would definitely want her to continuing to be the lovable character from her initial portrayal instead of this flawless, infallible goddess that no human being on Earth can possibly relate to. 

 

What skills are you referring too and we know Celestia(who Twilight strives to be like) isn't a flawless and infallible goddess. 

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 "There's always another secret." & "I'm so storming pure I practically belch rainbows." -Brandon Sanderson(Books)

Above are my three favorite quotes.

 

I support a [United Equestria].

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What skills are you referring too and we know Celestia(who Twilight strives to be like) isn't a flawless and infallible goddess. 

 

I mentioned this in my opening post: her suddenly having the mechanical know-how to construct an elaborate machine to get the portal to open again. Twilight was never portrayed as a mechanical genius before, but apparently she is. I'm also calling BS on her being so well-informed on all the dimensional principles that she applied as well, particularly when she only used the portal once before and did not know anything about how it actually works. 

 

So what other expert skills can we just expect her to pull out of nowhere in order to serve the plot? Hell, maybe they could do another Winter Wrap Up episode and have her suddenly be exceptional at everything she previously failed at before. 

 

And as for Celestia, it kinda seems like McCarthy writes her to fail so that Twilight can look better by comparison. At this point, Twilight could begin season 5 being crowned as the new ruler of Equestria and everyone would probably be much better off for it. 

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I mentioned this in my opening post: her suddenly having the mechanical know-how to construct an elaborate machine to get the portal to open again. Twilight was never portrayed as a mechanical genius before, but apparently she is. I'm also calling BS on her being so well-informed on all the dimensional principles that she applied as well, particularly when she only used the portal once before and did not know anything about how it actually works. 

 

So what other expert skills can we just expect her to pull out of nowhere in order to serve the plot? Hell, maybe they could do another Winter Wrap Up episode and have her suddenly be exceptional at everything she previously failed at before. 

 

And as for Celestia, it kinda seems like McCarthy writes her to fail so that Twilight can look better by comparison. At this point, Twilight could begin season 5 being crowned as the new ruler of Equestria and everyone would probably be much better off for it. 

 

But as it's been explained before, those new skills aren't something out of character for Twilight. Is it too much too assume she studied-up on inter-dimensional travel in between seasons? As for mechanical genius, what about her machine she tried to use to analyze Pinkie in "Feeling Pinkie Keen"?

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I agree with this notion that the show leans too Twilight-centric. For a show called "Friendship is Magic", it seems to go out of its way to take other characters out of the plot to focus on Twilight. I'm not going to bow to the "Twilight is the main character" excuse, because not showing collective effort and support is against the show's main message.

 

To me, the strongest part of Twilight's character was how relatable to me she was before Twilicorn. She lived a coddled, sheltered lifestyle her entire life, and now she was being sent out into the "real world" to learn how the others live and how to be benevolent, compassionate, and how to build strong emotional connections.

 

However, give her this title and a pair of wings and now the dynamic is unbalanced. Twilight is no longer equal to her friends but is now on a level above them. She will be the first to be called on in times of need, then her friends second.

 

Couple that with the awkwardness of trying to have a princess live a normal life like she had in the past, and the imbalance of her obvious preferential treatment above all of the other characters, and it hinders the immersion with this character that I had in the past.

 

I related to this character when she was something more relatable to the everyman. She was just coming out of her shell and learning about life with all of her friends. However, once the wings and tiara came on, she turned from a relatable everyman going through life leaning on her friends for support, into a happily-ever-after, living-the-dream individualist success story whose friends are merely behind the scenes while she gets most of the attention. In this day and age, these images of success are absolutely everywhere despite harsher realities, and to be candid, frank, and honest, I'm burnt out on them.

 

Once it's done, it's done. Reconning Twilight's princesshood was never a thought that crossed my mind. But it surely could have been handled better, emphasizing the contributions of the others that got her where she was.

 

MLP seems to be breaking its own moral from Equestria Girls:

 

A true princess in any world leads not by forcing others to bow before her, but by inspiring others to stand with her.

And yet everyone else, including the narrative/writing, seems so adamant to bow to her anyway.

 

The one thing I'm really looking forward to in Season 5 is the inclusion of more supporting characters. I want to see Twilight get some help in saving Equestria, and I want to see that help actually acknowledged, and address other characters that have not had the success the Mane 6 have had.

 

I mentioned this in my opening post: her suddenly having the mechanical know-how to construct an elaborate machine to get the portal to open again. Twilight was never portrayed as a mechanical genius before, but apparently she is. I'm also calling BS on her being so well-informed on all the dimensional principles that she applied as well, particularly when she only used the portal once before and did not know anything about how it actually works. 

 

So what other expert skills can we just expect her to pull out of nowhere in order to serve the plot? Hell, maybe they could do another Winter Wrap Up episode and have her suddenly be exceptional at everything she previously failed at before. 

 

And as for Celestia, it kinda seems like McCarthy writes her to fail so that Twilight can look better by comparison. At this point, Twilight could begin season 5 being crowned as the new ruler of Equestria and everyone would probably be much better off for it.

 

"Winter Wrap-Up" did not do such a contrivance. In the ending, Twilight was not good at any of the grunt work but she had excellent organizational skills, thus the town appointed her organizer. She never did fix the nest or wake up the animals, but she helped others to do it without delay. However, I do agree with your other points.

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I mentioned this in my opening post: her suddenly having the mechanical know-how to construct an elaborate machine to get the portal to open again. Twilight was never portrayed as a mechanical genius before, but apparently she is.

 

Perhaps the device she built is not as incredible and elaborate as you think it is? Perhaps it's only slightly more complex than the machinery that ponies are routinely taught about in school? It seems complex to us but we haven't benefited from an Equestrian education!

 

After all, the seed idea for the device was planted by Pinkie Pie, who also seemed to fully understand what the device did once it was built. Pinkie Pie didn't go to Princess Celestia's School for Gifted Unicorns. I'd assume she went to a normal Equestrian school near her rock farm, probably quite similar to the school that Cheerilee teaches at. If Pinkie can understand the machine (perhaps not all the details, but enough to get the gist of what it does), then why shouldn't Twilight (who has had significantly more education in this area) be able to build it?

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In addition to this, her flaws appear to have been greatly toned down and she doesn't make mistakes like she used to. She only had two journal entries in season 4: one in Three's a Crowd and one in Testing, Testing, 1, 2, 3. However, the one in Three's a Crowd was not really based on any flaw on her part, so that's really only one legitimate lesson she learned all season, while the others learned several.

 

I think that you're forgetting that the reason Twilight has been crowned Alicorn Princess is because she recieved a complete undertstanding of friendship, therefore no longer needing to write these journal entries of what she learned of friendship, and that's how it made room for the other characters to grow.

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I think that's what made Flash Sentry so unpopular. As soon as we meet him he's already too perfect to care about. Which means no room for character development! I sincerely hope the writers improve this character a little, because there's just no room for hatin' in a community like this one!

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Few things some of you need to know:

 

A character does not need to be relatable to be good. That's the main reason I like Superman. His inability to relate to anyone around him is his greatest flaw, but thats an essay for another time. It's also worth mentioning that the only character in the show I can "relate" to is Spike, yet I still love all the others.

 

Characters develop. They are supposed to break negative character traits. You guys actually want Twilight to stay a worrying psycopath who has a panic attack whenever things don't go her way? And also, if you're saying that the only way you can care about a character's stuggles is if you yourself can relate, well....thats a little self-centered.

 

Things do in fact happen of screen. Biggest complaint I see here is that Twilight just pulls random knowledge from nowhere. Guys, she studies magic for a living. Is it so hard to believe that the things she does are actually things that she has learned and practiced?Her just happening to have a spell for the current situation is a lot more believeable than her never having one.

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But as it's been explained before, those new skills aren't something out of character for Twilight. Is it too much too assume she studied-up on inter-dimensional travel in between seasons? As for mechanical genius, what about her machine she tried to use to analyze Pinkie in "Feeling Pinkie Keen"?

 

I most certainly thought they were skills pulled out of nowhere to serve the plot. I mean, yeah, Twilight's always been incredibly smart, but smart enough to do everything she did with such relative ease? Sorry, I'm just not seeing it. I honestly don't see why Twilight isn't applying her obviously genius mind to curing the equine equivalent of cancer. 

 

As for Feeling Pinkie Keen, there's actually nothing to suggest that she built the device she used to measure Pinkie's brain. I thought that she actually had it delivered, since after all, being Celestia's student did grant her a ton of perks. 

 

 

I think that you're forgetting that the reason Twilight has been crowned Alicorn Princess is because she recieved a complete undertstanding of friendship, therefore no longer needing to write these journal entries of what she learned of friendship, and that's how it made room for the other characters to grow.

 

Truly, the other five must not have learned much of anything throughout the series if only Twilight has mastered friendship to the point where she almost never falls into the trap of doing something wrong, while they continue to make mistakes and learn lessons as they have since the the start of the show. 

 

In any case, I still think that the root of this problem is Hasbro trying to market Princess Twilight above everyone else, thus increasing her level of appeal by making her look superior to everyone else. And boy does it work. Twilight looks so much better than her friends now that it's not even funny. 

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Except she's not perfect.  She isn't the strongest character in the series (though I do still think she'll eventually get to that point).  And she still makes mistakes.  But who cares?  When you get right down to it, you can turn just about any fictional character into a Mary Sue by overanalyzing them.

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Except she's not perfect.  She isn't the strongest character in the series (though I do still think she'll eventually get to that point).  And she still makes mistakes.  But who cares?  When you get right down to it, you can turn just about any fictional character into a Mary Sue by overanalyzing them.

If a character would realistically know something from their implied off-screen life then I accept it. Twilight is scientist, history buff, and a favored student of Celestia herself. I would assume she would know how to get her hands on a lot of things. Either through her own personal skills, connections with the scientific community, or simply by asking Celestia.

 

I think Brandon Sanderson does a good job of keeping his characters from being Mary Sue's. But that's another topic entirely.

 

I most certainly thought they were skills pulled out of nowhere to serve the plot. I mean, yeah, Twilight's always been incredibly smart, but smart enough to do everything she did with such relative ease? Sorry, I'm just not seeing it. I honestly don't see why Twilight isn't applying her obviously genius mind to curing the equine equivalent of cancer. 

 

As for Feeling Pinkie Keen, there's actually nothing to suggest that she built the device she used to measure Pinkie's brain. I thought that she actually had it delivered, since after all, being Celestia's student did grant her a ton of perks. 

 

 

 

Truly, the other five must not have learned much of anything throughout the series if only Twilight has mastered friendship to the point where she almost never falls into the trap of doing something wrong, while they continue to make mistakes and learn lessons as they have since the the start of the show. 

 

In any case, I still think that the root of this problem is Hasbro trying to market Princess Twilight above everyone else, thus increasing her level of appeal by making her look superior to everyone else. And boy does it work. Twilight looks so much better than her friends now that it's not even funny. 

 

I think the reason you dislike Twilight so much is because you dislike change in shows/characters. At least, that's the impression I'm getting from you. She's learned how to be a leader, so she learns to hide her faults better. 

 

She's always been the main point of the series, the logo itself has the same colors as her body. So her being the 'mane' character isn't unexpected. 

  Besides, I doubt twilight could do as well as Fluttershy or Rarity at their jobs. She's not superior in everything, just in what you would think she would be by Season 5 and even then she's still technically a student of Celestia.


 "Who says nothing is impossible? I've been doing nothing for years." -Unknown

 "There's always another secret." & "I'm so storming pure I practically belch rainbows." -Brandon Sanderson(Books)

Above are my three favorite quotes.

 

I support a [United Equestria].

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I would not have any problem with Twilight now if I could actually see her so-called "development" as actual development. But I simply don't think that it is actual development. I think that she's deliberately being made to show less flaws, make less mistakes, and constantly flaunt her increased maturity over the other five simply because it makes her more appealing than anyone else in the show, and thus more marketable. 

 

I mean sure she accomplished a lot to earn her title as a princess, but not so much that I would have thought that she was now above mistakes. Not so much that I would have thought she was now infinitely more mature than her friends. 

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I can't really weigh in here specifically, because I haven't seen season 4 yet.  Actually, I ordered the DVD's from Amazon, and they just arrived at my house today!  I'm super excited, but I'm also not in a big hurry, because once I watch em, I won't be able to look forward to watching them.

 

Anyway, I read the OP, and I can understand what you mean.  I hope I like what they did/do with her character, but I'll be kind of bummed if she has lost some of her dorky, OCD type charm.  But you know what?  This is absolutely not unique to this series.  Very few shows can have a long run where the characters stay perfect.  One of my favorite shows of all time, Big Bang, has already started going downhill.  It hasn't "jumped the shark," but I'm not a fan of where it has been going for awhile.  It was suppose to be about the nerdy stuff, the stuff I can relate to.  It's too much about the relationship humor and the husband and wife humor now.  That stuff, while funny sometimes, is a dime a dozen.  Big Bang wasn't suppose to be about that.  I'm also not a fan of Sheldon's development.  I don't want him to grow and change.  I don't want him to fall in love and have a perfect relationship with Amy.  (If they ever engage in coitus, I might quit the show.)  But on the other hoof, it probably wouldn't work or be believable to have no character growth, either.  That's why it's so hard for shows to get it just right.  It's the same thing with Twilight, and MLP in general.  It's hard to judge how much growth and change to do.  The ponies go through all of these extraordinary events, they learn important lessons; of course they're going to grow and change.  I think it would be equally bad if they learned these lessons, then just plum forgot them and never changed.  That's why shows like this just can't go forever, imo.

 

Now, if I had been Lord & Master of FIM, I would have made Magical Mystery Cure the series finale.  I don't mean I would have ended it after 3 seasons, I mean I would have saved the alicorn transformation/princess coronation for the end, probably after about 6 seasons.  Then I would have made the movie take place immediately after the finale.  And the movie would be freaking epic, believe you me.  3-hours long.  And it would've centered around Twi adjusting to her new identity, and coming to terms with the responsibilities of being a princess.  And it would have ended with Celestia and Luna's death, sacrificing themselves to save the world, but not before giving the rule of Equestria to Twilight, who, even though she wouldn't feel ready for it, would bravely accept.  *sigh*  If only...

 

Anyway, it's a common problem with TV.  The only show where there was never any character growth or change was Seinfeld.  And it worked so perfectly.  Some shows have had change and growth, and still manage a very long, good run.  Fraiser is a great example.  Very long run, and it never stopped getting better, right through to the finale.  Perhaps Twilight has lost some charm, but hopefully I'll still love her.  I'm not gonna let it ruin the show for me.

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I would not have any problem with Twilight now if I could actually see her so-called "development" as actual development. But I simply don't think that it is actual development. I think that she's deliberately being made to show less flaws, make less mistakes, and constantly flaunt her increased maturity over the other five simply because it makes her more appealing than anyone else in the show, and thus more marketable. 

 

I mean sure she accomplished a lot to earn her title as a princess, but not so much that I would have thought that she was now above mistakes. Not so much that I would have thought she was now infinitely more mature than her friends. 

 

Honestly, it sounds like you just don't like characters changing. What you described is what most would consider character development.

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If it's just character development, I again have to ask why Twilight is the only one who can develop to the point where she barely ever makes mistakes, while the other five cannot. Most likely because Twilight is the alicorn princess whom Hasbro is trying to market the hell out of, and they're not. 

 

I mean seriously, prior to MMC, each of the mane six were pretty much on the same level as far as development goes. Twilight never really surpassed them at any point. Then season 4 starts, and suddenly I'm just expected to believe that becoming a princess automatically made her infinitely more mature than her friends, as well as far less likely to actually do anything wrong. 

 

Sorry, but I don't see that as "development." Because, to me, there's honestly nothing that justifies that. I mean, if she was just reasonably a bit more mature than her friends, and reasonably less prone to make mistakes, I would understand it. But as it stands now, Twilight is on a far higher level than that of her friends, and it seems to be only because of marketing reasons. 

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