spoiler Starlight Glimmer had a point... (READ OP)

[TailsIsNotAlone 3,694]

Season 5 spoilers, although most of you have probably seen 'The Cutie Map' by now.

 

 

Something is eating at me. I can't get Starlight Glimmer out of my head. I agree with her, but I don't. Here's what I mean:

 

I agree with some of the things Starlight Glimmer said; I disagree with many of the things she did.

 

First, here's the stuff about her I don't agree with: brainwashing, manipulation, lying, violation of individual rights, and cutie mark stealing. These things are wrong. Starlight was willing to resort to all of them, plus violence, to impose her agenda on other ponies. That is bad. Bad, Starlight.

 

But I also agree with some of the things she said. In one part of the song, she sung these words so beautifully and with such conviction...

Other ponies argue

Do you ever wonder why?

When you think your talent's special

You don't see eye to eye.

...that I can't help but stop and think about them. A lot of people don't see eye to eye for that very reason.

 

I don't know if being from the USA has anything to do with it--maybe--but more times than I can count, I run into people who think they're really special. I'm not just talking about "self-esteem," I'm talking entitlement gone berserk, to the detriment of common sense and our capacity to coexist with others. People (those under 40 especially) seem to go around seeking as much attention as they can get and thinking they have a right to never be offended or uncomfortable. Too many chiefs, not enough Native Americans. 

 

Friendship is a good thing; everyone can agree on that. But Twilight Sparkle has been fortunate enough to make all sorts of friends despite her differences and special talents. Apparently, Starlight hasn't. Neither have I. On the Internet, yeah, I have some really cool people I talk to, most of 'em here. But in real life, it doesn't work. Hasn't worked for years. All I see is people fighting, lying, over-complicating their lives with commitments they can't handle. I can't deal with these people. Starlight keeps things simple, creates a very basic common ground for everypony, and watches over them to make sure things run smoothly. That part (NOT the rest) is good. Good for you, Starlight.

 

It doesn't excuse your journey down the slippery slope to authoritarian cultism, but at least you tried, sister.

 

Starlight is dangerous in a way none of the other villains were, yet at the same time she's not pure evil, either. She has good ideas about organization and equality, but she has to be reasonable. There is plenty of good that can be done without taking away ponies' individuality and dreams, enough that I kinda hope she comes around at the end.

 

People expressed great skepticism when the Mane 6 reformed Discord, but prior to that, he was the most popular villain on the show. He earned so much respect from us in his first appearance that we wanted to like him. That's what I'm experiencing with Starlight Glimmer.

 

She has some points to make, and if she accepts that she is wrong now, she might make herself right someday.

[Venomous 18,813]

You being up some good points as well as Starlight Glimmer did.

[Happy Spark is King 331]

Season 5 spoilers, although most of you have probably seen 'The Cutie Map' by now.

 

 

Something is eating at me. I can't get Starlight Glimmer out of my head. I agree with her, but I don't. Here's what I mean:

 

I agree with some of the things Starlight Glimmer said; I disagree with many of the things she did.

 

First, here's the stuff about her I don't agree with: brainwashing, manipulation, lying, violation of individual rights, and cutie mark stealing. These things are wrong. Starlight was willing to resort to all of them, plus violence, to impose her agenda on other ponies. That is bad. Bad, Starlight.

 

But I also agree with some of the things she said. In one part of the song, she sung these words so beautifully and with such conviction...

Other ponies argue

Do you ever wonder why?

When you think your talent's special

You don't see eye to eye.

...that I can't help but stop and think about them.

 

I don't know if being from the USA has anything to do with it--maybe--but more times than I can count, I run into people who think they're really special. I'm not just talking about "self-esteem," I'm talking entitlement gone berserk, to the detriment of common sense and our capacity to coexist with others. People (those under 40 especially) seem to go around seeking as much attention as they can get and thinking they have a right to never be offended or uncomfortable. Too many chiefs, not enough Native Americans. 

 

Friendship is a good thing; everyone can agree on that. But Twilight Sparkle has been fortunate enough to make all sorts of friends despite her differences and special talents. Apparently, Starlight hasn't. Neither have I. On the Internet, yeah, I have some really cool people I talk to, most of 'em here. But in real life, it doesn't work. Hasn't worked for years. All I see is people fighting, lying, over-complicating their lives with commitments they can't handle. I can't deal with these people. Starlight keeps things simple, creates a very basic common ground for everypony, and watches over them to make sure things run smoothly. That part is good. Good for you, Starlight.

 

It doesn't excuse your journey down the slippery slope to authoritarian cultism, but at least you tried, sister.

 

Starlight is dangerous in a way none of the other villains were, yet at the same time she's not pure evil, either. She has good ideas about organization and equality, but she has to be reasonable. There is plenty of good that can be done without taking away ponies' individuality and dreams, enough that I kinda hope she comes around at the end.

 

People expressed great skepticism when the Mane 6 reformed Discord, but prior to that, he was the most popular villain on the show. He earned so much respect from us in his first appearance that we wanted to like him. That's what I'm experiencing with Starlight Glimmer.

 

She has some points to make, and she might be right someday if she could conceive of being wrong.

 

So im not the only one. Yeah me being one that sometimes goes way too deep into the equality for anything and everything, this definetly caught my attention

[Aidan OGain 112]

Is this just another example of the ends not justifying the means?

[Ashen Pathfinder 16,152]

OP edited to have spoiler prefix added for safety precaution.

[Aidan OGain 112]

Hey, just a sudden thought. Is Starlight Glimmer the opposite of Discord?

[Sidral Mundet 1,666]

Yes, she has a point,  but is obviously going WAY to far (though whether she has a reason for it and believed it or was simply in it for power and used the philosophy anyways we don't know at this point). There were a few lines in the song that really could be interpreted differently if viewed without the equality is bad lens. 

 

"Winning only breeds the worst Ego-filled conceit"

As Star Trek TOS once said, "Superior intelligence breeds superior ambition." You know who they were talking about? Khan (insert Kirk clip here) a man who was breed better than everyone. He was stronger, more intelligent, and was willing to work towards his goal. Was he the hero? No. His superiority left him thinking he was a king on high that could do whatever he desired. That Kirk beat him was such a blow to his pride. 

 

"You can never have a nightmare if you never dream"

So dreaming is good but does that mean we should permit the nightmares? I mean if you are having more nightmares than normal dreams, shouldn't one try to get rid of those nightmares? 

 

The problem I have (a minor one) is that we never really see the counterargument. The Equalists are in the wrong (most from not knowing, Starlight for being a hypocrite and a controlling dictator) but you could have a very legitimate reasons for wanting to remove inequality.

Basically I feel Starlight is a strawman at the current moment, that she was an extreme used to make a point rather than debate the merits of the argument. 

Edited April 6, 2015 by Sidral Mundet

[Horsing Around 28]

 

"Winning only breeds the worst Ego-filled conceit"

As Star Trek TOS once said, "Superior intelligence breeds superior ambition." You know who they were talking about? Khan (insert Kirk clip here) a man who was breed better than everyone. He was stronger, more intelligent, and was willing to work towards his goal. Was he the hero? No. His superiority left him thinking he was a king on high that could do whatever he desired. That Kirk beat him was such a blow to his pride. 

 

And Rainbow Rocks was largely about how competition often brings out the worst in people.  The Cutie Map has no message continuity, which is disappointing since Rainbow Rocks was the last thing between S4 and S5.

[Bendy 1,819]

Season 5 spoilers, although most of you have probably seen 'The Cutie Map' by now.

 

 

Something is eating at me. I can't get Starlight Glimmer out of my head. I agree with her, but I don't. Here's what I mean:

 

I agree with some of the things Starlight Glimmer said; I disagree with many of the things she did.

 

No, I don't want to be apart of the Borg.

 

So, I rather keep my mind thanks. Yeah, maybe free will can be chaotic, I'd prefer that than being a mindless obedient slave.

 

Someone like her needs to be put under a guillotine. Or put in jail at least.

Edited April 6, 2015 by Bendy

[Aidan OGain 112]

If we take it a step farther, It's like saying having individuality at all breeds chaos. All those individual egos just cause trouble. Better to have none of them. Lobotomies for all. To use Star trek, they're borg-ponies.

[Cirrus. 1,088]

Ooohhhh. I've been thinking about Starlight and her "little town."

 

I really want to know her back story and reason why she wants to make all of Equestria "equalized" while being the dictator. Making up that fake staff and the fake cutie mark shows that she doesn't want to be equal herself.

 

The big giveaway that shows her true intentions is when she says:

 

"They think they can come to MY village and disrupt MY life"  Before she was outed and angry she would always say "OUR community" I don't think she really believes in the equal stuff in any capacity except as a way to control "HER COMMUNITY"

 

Basically she is brainwashing everyone into minions and DISABLING them with the equal mark.

 

People like her in real life are some of the most evil and dangerous of people.

 

 

 

Two other things,

 

How easy it was to break the vault glass was kind of lame. :okiedokielokie:

 

Things could have been worse, The equal marks could have been BRANDED ON WITH A HOT BRANDING IRON.   I don't think she would have been as successful in getting new members though.

Edited April 6, 2015 by Cirrus.

[ConcorDisparate 385]

Uh. You know, when you have an idea about Humanity, there's a simple way to know if it is wrong or not.

Try it. Consider that every human is now equal in every way possible. Does it work ?

 

You know what is wrong with the equality of Starlight Glimmer ?

She's not equalizing, she's erasing. She did nothing but erase what made each of them special, ponies were nothing but inefficient shells.

It brought no good to anypony. Though, I don't blame her for this, there are no way to reach it otherwise, because sentient beings are not equal. And you can't reach such equality without altering the fact that you are sentient. To reach it, you must turn into a shell.

 

 

 

Friendship is a good thing; everyone can agree on that. But Twilight Sparkle has been fortunate enough to make all sorts of friends despite her differences and special talents. Apparently, Starlight hasn't. Neither have I. On the Internet, yeah, I have some really cool people I talk to, most of 'em here. But in real life, it doesn't work. Hasn't worked for years. All I see is people fighting, lying, over-complicating their lives with commitments they can't handle. I can't deal with these people.

 

I'm sorry. However, I really want you to understand one thing.

 

Without fighting, without ambitions, without everything that make us different and fight with each other, Friendship has no meaning.

What does being friends mean in a world where you can't not be friends ? Nothing.

 

We can be friends because we have the choice not to be. Not because we turned into zombies together.

[TailsIsNotAlone 3,694]

No, I don't want to be apart of the Borg.

 

So, I rather keep my mind thanks. Yeah, maybe free will can be chaotic, I'd prefer that than being a mindless obedient slave.

 

Someone like her needs to be put under a guillotine. Or put in jail at least.

That's not really a valid reply to my post, though. I already agree that mindless slavery is out of the question. There's a gray area between total chaos and total order. Starlight made a lot of mistakes, and one of them was failing to acknowledge that gray area.

 

And Rainbow Rocks was largely about how competition often brings out the worst in people.  The Cutie Map has no message continuity, which is disappointing since Rainbow Rocks was the last thing between S4 and S5.

Well, I don't think the writers are thinking about EQG when they write for the regular show. If anything, Lightning Dust exemplified the theme you're talking about in Season 3, and very well at that. 

I'm sorry. However, I really want you to understand one thing.

 

Without fighting, without ambitions, without everything that make us different and fight with each other, Friendship has no meaning.

What does being friends mean in a world where you can't not be friends ? Nothing.

 

We can be friends because we have the choice not to be. Not because we turned into zombies together.

That's true and I understand it very well. I just choose to withdraw because conflict is too much for me. That puts me in a position to understand some of Starlight's views and see her as potentially redeemable. But I still prefer this system to being a zombie, don't worry. I am not advocating mandatory zombie friendship. 

 

If Starlight learns to equalize without erasing, then she'll really have something.

[Malinter 3,064]

"You can never have a nightmare if you never dream"

 

but if you never dream, everything stagnates and degrates. no dreams = no imagination which is why there town basically sucked ass. Besides, nightmares embody fears, they exist so that you can learn understand your fears and possibly face and overcome them.

 

all in all, she's a pretty sick and twisted individual by pony standards,

[Argumedies 1,748]

You cannot have equality without balance

[UnknownFry 169]

Starlight might actually have some good points if she actually practiced what she preached. 

[LZRD WZRD 1,929]

I don't doubt the sincerity of her intentions, but quite frankly they led to nothing but misery. Stifling individuality via coercion (or any method really) is something I am vehemently opposed to. I don't have any sympathy for Starlight or her ideas.

[Sazama Ichida 2,352]

I somewhat support her idea of equality between all. It's true that if we were all the same then no one would have anything to fight about and no one would feel the need to bully anyone most likely. The only problem would be if everyone was the same in real life it would be well...Kinda boring...

[Steve Piranha 28,780]

Yes, I agree with many of her points, the execution was where she maily failed. She probably had a strong trauma where she was stepped on by self-entitled ponies where they believed they deserved more than others, developing a strong, but misguided desire for equality. I bet many of us had the missfortune of meeting those kind of people 

[Castle Bleck 19,167]

Hey, just a sudden thought. Is Starlight Glimmer the opposite of Discord?

 

Sombra and Tirek are closer to that, IMO.

[Winona the Dog 1,981]

Nah she's way off the deep end.

 

It's perfectly natural to argue or disagree over something. After all that's why we all have opinions.

 

The fact Twilight has such good friends is because she stays true to herself to obtain them. Starlight used manipulation and brainwashing tactics which is just wrong.

 

In today's world it's a bit more complicated but trying to make friends is easier than you make think. Just stay true to yourself and be patient. It can be as easy as hanging around an arcade and see someone playing a game you really like.

[Zoraxe 546]

One thing in the song that stood out for me was this line...

 

"No-one is superior, and no-one shakes in fear"

 

Think about that, what experiences must some of these ponies have had for this to be a line in their song?

[Fractured 2,683]

I guess the basic question here is "What would you be willing to sacrifice for peace?" Personally, i'd be willing to give up being special for that purpose, since I believe that the amount of problems caused by differing opinions is not worth the feeling of freedom. Obviously, not everyone's like that, though.

[ConcorDisparate 385]

 

 

the amount of problems caused by differing opinions is not worth the feeling of freedom

It depends if you include all the things that imply having different opinions.

The "Feeling of Freedom", well, I'd make the trade if it was the only thing to give.

 

But having different opinions is also the reason why humanity went so far. Some gave up on their life for Science, some decided to make people laugh,..

If all of them were forced into living like everyone else, they wouldn't have played their role.

I think the MLP episode showed it pretty well. The ponies weren't creative, they weren't cooking well, they weren't very smart, they were blind.

 

Giving up on "opinions", it's not only giving up on a "feeling of freedom", it's giving up on so much more.. -_-

[Shanks 10,811]

The sense of entitlement you mentioned has actually increased as society itself is becoming more and more authoritarian and cult like and I do not believe this is mere coincidence. This is a result of encouraging an entitlement culture where people are fragmented into groups and isms instead of being looked at as individuals. What does this have in common with Starlight Glimmers idealogy? A lot more than you might think actually. In Starlight Glimmers pony Jonestown ponies instead of being looked at as various groups were looked at as one sort of hive mind which also occurs quite ironically in the entitlement culture where it is ones lot in life to be "entitled" to certain things if you are a member of certain protected classes which leads to a sort of voluntary hive mind or what we would more commonly know of as a "circle jerk."

 

The result of both is essentially the same even if the methodology and justifications are different, conformity is enourage and freedom and true individuality are discouraged. Until Stalight Glimmer was exposed as a liar it was a bit unclear on whether she was well intended yet misguided or just using these people for her own purposes but is is clear after she exposed that she has an unknown agenda for the cutie marks she has stolen. In pony society cutie marks hold quite a lot of power so perhaps she had found some sort of way to tap into the talents they represent? Either way since she escaped we don't know yet but probably will later this season.