S05:E10 - Princess Spike

[Blackened 512]

Meh.

 

Not really a big fan of this episode. I didn't hate it, but didn't like it either. Just a typical "Spike is a moron" episode. After all, he did try to leave Twilight to fend for herself. 

Edited June 23, 2015 by Blackened

[ManaMinori 4,145]

I thought this episode was decent despite it was yet another episode showing that Spike can't even have an original thought anymore without taking it several steps too far.

 

But I think the thing that I find most jarring is the fact that Equestria seems to be the entire world as opposed to a single country. There were delegates from cities all over Equestria; but there were also delegates from the Crystal Empire and Griffonstone, both have been shown to be separate political entities from Equestria proper. Were they both annexed into Equestria? The Crystal Empire didn't have any political rule when it returned and Cadance could be seen as Celesta's benevolent extension into the Empire. Griffonstone still doesn't have any political rule so how extensive is Celestia's influence? Are the Griffons more willing to accept her help now that they've been exposed to true friendship?

 

And where does that leave the likes of Maretonia and Saddle Arabia? They have their own rulers, yet are they merely provinces that answer to Celestia?

 

Celestia and Luna, due to their astronomic duties, do actually have control over the entire pony world. How much they exercise that control is up for debate but it's episodes like this that really make me wonder about the Equestrian world's political status. Is it really a peaceful united nations like it appears or do Celestia and Luna peacefully... well, piece out the world as provinces that in turn answer to them?

I think you're assuming that Griffons are only situated in the city of Griffonstone, and Crystal Ponies only being situated in the Crystal Empire. As for the Empire itself, it's a part of Equestria- just a rather large city-state. And it's not like Crystal ponies are confined to just the Empire. Nor are Griffons confined to living in Griffonstone- which is also a part of Equestria, it seems. Why can't they be delegates of cities outside the few towns we've seen with them?

 

Also, please note - according to the Journal of the Two sisters, that unicorns were in charge of raising the celestial bodies, before Celestia and Luna. They didn't have control over the entire earth. Nor do Celestia and Luna (because we see that they have international laws and dealings with other countries, with other high authorities, in the IDW comics, and chapter books)

The lack of people understanding the basis of the show itself is beyond me... People, each episode relays a lesson.  Something that kids can relate to.  

 

Do you really think there aren't any kids (or adults) out there that have been given a task they weren't prepared for?

 

Oh right; of course there have.

 

So I say, if you're going to judge via in depth analysis, at least understand the core foundation of the lessons MLP brings us with each episode.

 

---

 

But I'm not a criticizing analyst of the like anyway.  I enjoy the show for its entertainment, its cuteness, and its morals too.  I thought this episode was fun, funny, and overall entertaining.  Sure, it wasn't as good as some of the previous episodes in season 5, but it wasn't a bad episode to me.  

 

Spike is still young, folks.  Saying he should have learned his lesson in previous episodes is the same as thinking kids will listen when you tell them just one time to not eat a cookie before dinner.

 

If you think kids learn responsibility in a day, you're obviously either not old enough to fathom the truth of the matter, or, you're a little naive.  

 

Plus, Spike is still a dragon, y'know!  And with dragonblood comes the trait of being too easily swayed by jealousy and narcissism.  Now I'm not saying he can't move beyond that in his life; I'm saying he's just more prone to succumbing to such things.

 

---

 

And remember, folks:

 

"Just put the hay in the apple and eat the candle."

 

All these years I've been putting the hay in the barn, eating the apple, and lighting the candle.  Can't believe I've been doing it wrong for all this time.

 

 

 

~ Miles

thank you. THANK YOU. The lack of understanding, and just plain Spike bashing is beyond me, as well. The argument that he's a stupid kid and acts stupid is a lie, because as you said, even adults are given tasks they aren't ready for, and might not handle it properly. Spike did a good enough job handling things in the beginning, until his dragon nature got the better of him, and he started being selfish. That doesn't make him an idiot, and it stings when people see him that way. Sad that the main point of the episode was Spike trying to feel needed, loved, and appreciated, and people just seem to throw more crap at him. The fans that do are no better than the many background ponies, in this episode- not caring about him in the least, or appreciating his many efforts.

[Celli 4,338]

Meh, it wasn't a bad episode, but it definitely could have been better. Spike was in over his head and a bit of an idiot. The only parts I liked were when Twilight was sleepy and landed on the books.

Overall, just average. I'd give it a 5/10.

[Time Shield 402]

Sometimes I wish I could do a mass edit and change all instances of "Spike is being an idiot" and replace it with "Spike is being a baby dragon".  Everyone does realize that children rarely make good decisions when left to their own devices, right?  Add to that the (granted, usually suppressed) greedy instincts of a dragon, and his behavior makes sense.

 

Finally, in regards to everyone else's behavior, I was hoping that the outlines filled with solid colors would have been a pretty significant clue that this is a cartoon, and of course things are going to be exaggerated.  The other ponies at the summit weren't helpless or anything; their troubles were just being exaggerated to provide conflict and potentially amusing situations.

[Celli 4,338]

Sometimes I wish I could do a mass edit and change all instances of "Spike is being an idiot" and replace it with "Spike is being a baby dragon". Everyone does realize that children rarely make good decisions when left to their own devices, right? Add to that the (granted, usually suppressed) greedy instincts of a dragon, and his behavior makes sense.

 

Eh, I dunno. Spike has been shown to be pretty mature in the past. I think if he was written better more consistently, he would have some great episodes. It's been said before that Meghan writes him the best, and I think if she did an episode with him, it'd be great.

[Time Shield 402]

Eh, I dunno. Spike has been shown to be pretty mature in the past. I think if he was written better more consistently, he would have some great episodes. It's been said before that Meghan writes him the best, and I think if she did an episode with him, it'd be great.

 

And children have been known to make mature decisions from time to time.  It's not the norm, though.

[Celli 4,338]

And children have been known to make mature decisions from time to time. It's not the norm, though.

Yeah, you make a good point. I would like to see him mature, though. In the mental sense and physical sense. Edited June 23, 2015 by Celli

[Casbyness 48]

Well I guess they can't all be great, and putting this episode after Slice of Life was a clever way to get it quickly out the way without causing too much disappointment.

 

I hate how Spike is always used for obvious life lesson nonsense, he's much smarter and wiser in episodes when he isn't the focus. Looking forward to the next episode so I can forget about how bad this one was.

[ManaMinori 4,145]

It makes me sad to say this, but I have to wonder- with this episode delving into Spike feeling useless and abusing Twilight's power and authority because of it,  only because ponies don't seem to respect him for who he is, if Spike will start seeing the same in his pony friends (I mean, Twilight's a princess and doesn't really need him as an assistant, like she used to, in season 1), and just runs away or something, and tries to spend his life in isolation, feeling like he's not of use to anyone, and no one really (or no longer) appreciates him.

[Grtxkkyz 388]

Huh, I kinda have mixed feelings about this one. For one side, I do enjoy the whole summit concept, it's a good plot device for world building, as well as the utter cuteness of sleepy Twi. On the other hand, while the Aesop of the episode is important, I don't think they delivered it the right way. You see, none of the decisions Spike made when he got drunk with power and began misusing it were catastrophic. Sure, they were selfish, but did not have any lasting impact on the summit. Those which did cause things to go downhill, were made way before power got to his head, and at that moment he was more worried about Twilight sleeping peacefully, not to mention he didn't had experience to make decent choices.

Anyway, we'll stay tuned for Weird Al's return.

[Prince Firemane 309]

I think you're assuming that Griffons are only situated in the city of Griffonstone, and Crystal Ponies only being situated in the Crystal Empire.  And it's not like Crystal ponies are confined to just the Empire. Nor are Griffons confined to living in Griffonstone- which is also a part of Equestria, it seems. Why can't they be delegates of cities outside the few towns we've seen with them?

In all honesty, you're probably right. But for the sake of argument, I only saw one Griffon delegate and only one Crystal Pony delegate. Both of which have noticeable physical differences that exist very predominantly within their own specific regions; Griffonstone and the Crystal Empire respectively. We've seen a few Crystal Ponies tooling around Canterlot and Ponyville, but we've only seen two Griffons within Equestria proper; one of which is a bona-fide Griffonstone resident who was just visiting. Logic, however basically, dictates that the Griffon and the Crystal Pony represent Griffonstone and the Empire respectively. If they really are representatives within Equestria proper, it would've been better shown with more than one of each.

 

 

As for the Empire itself, it's a part of Equestria- just a rather large city-state. Griffonstone- which is also a part of Equestria, it seems.

It appears to be that way now. We've only seen the main cities of the Crystal Empire and Griffonstone, both were in a state of political ruin when they first appeared. Moreover, we don't even know if their territories extend beyond their shown cities. But they did not seem to be part of Equestria in the past as both had enough power and standing to be recognized as their own separate states with Royal titles that by our standards are greater than Celestia's and Luna's. The Empire had a line of Queens, Griffonstone had a line of Kings. But now the Crystal Empire at least has been annexed into Equestria as Cadance, I'm sure under the guidance of Celestia, rules it. However, it's too early to say about Griffonstone's standing as we don't know anything about any kind of economic recovery after the introduction of selflessness and friendship.

 

But that brings me back to my earlier point, how are the other entities we've seen handled? Are they legitimately their own states of power or do they answer to Celestia and Luna as provinces?

 

 

Also, please note - according to the Journal of the Two sisters, that unicorns were in charge of raising the celestial bodies, before Celestia and Luna. They didn't have control over the entire earth. Nor do Celestia and Luna (because we see that they have international laws and dealings with other countries, with other high authorities, in the IDW comics, and chapter books)

The point I was making is that Celestia and Luna, due to their control over the Sun and the Moon, could very easily bring the entire world to its knees by disrupting that cycle. Like I said; whether or not, or how much that control was exercised remains debatable, but it's worthwhile to remember that Luna tried to do exactly that.

 

 

(because we see that they have international laws and dealings with other countries, with other high authorities, in the IDW comics, and chapter books)

I'm not entirely sure where that stands. I've only read The Journal of the Two Sisters and The Crystal Heart Spell and none of the comics. But that avenue may be moot anyway. Don't quote me on it, but if I remember what I read correctly the comics are not show-canon.

[ManaMinori 4,145]

Is Spike really a buttmonkey, or a manipulative mastermind, I wonder?

 

Spike gets a lot of hate from the fandom, from the writers, and from life. Honestly, it seems like a never-ending cycle with the way he's treated and how he handles it. Life uses him for slapstick- in fact, we see him getting smacked and crushed by a door in episode 101 just like we see in episode 1, because apparently ponies aren't considerate enough to knock. He's had many unfortunate events happen to him beyond his bad luck with doors- birds stealing his hot dogs, stepping into buckets, belly flopping into pools of lava, his own kind attacking him, it even seems like Celestia has it out for him, approving those Dragon Sneeze trees to be planted in Canterlot just for Spike (because I get the feeling they WEREN'T there when Spike was living with Twi in Canterlot, in all the time he and Twi grew up there- or in “Look Before you Sleep”, when Spike was away on official business in Canterlot.

 

On top of that, his pony friends don't include him on 98% of their adventures, and the general pony populace (as we've seen in “Princess Spike”) couldn't give a flying feather about him, his status as the Princess' royal assistant, or his opinion or help. All the while the best friend he grew up with- literally from his hatching- is growing and maturing and being thrust into all this fame as an alicorn, and not needing him to assist as much as she used to, as a unicorn. It's no wonder why the poor guy has such self-esteem issues. They run DEEP.

 

And to make matters worse, it seems that every time he tries to build himself up a little; whether it's simply wanting a little bit more on his own birthday, perhaps thinking that materialism will ease the pain of having no one care about him, or trying to thrust himself into Twilight's princess position, in order to have ponies respect and appreciate him more than they have, he just can't catch a break, even when trying to make himself feel good, and it comes back to bite him in the tail. You really blame the poor guy for being in what some see as a static characterization cycle, when it's a 'damned if he does, damned if he doesn't' sort of situation?

 

Is he simply NOT supposed to try and build himself up, and have the self confidence that he learned about in “Equestria Games”, if the actions he takes only rouse his greedy dragon nature? Or perhaps we all could be looking at this the wrong way. Taking “Power Ponies”, “Equestria Games”, and “Princess Spike” into consideration, all of which share a common theme of Spike feeling absolutely useless and having to save the day in order to feel worth something, could he, perhaps, be putting himself in positions or making decisions, purposely (likely, on a subconscious level), where things go wrong, and he has to save the day, to be looked up to, like the Mane 6 are by other ponies, when they save the day?

[ShadowPhoenix 153]

Okay, least enjoyable episode of the season for me so far. I was a bit put off by Celestia and Luna's unexplained disappearance, Twilight for some reason shouldering all responsibility and Spike's illogical decisions before he went drunken with power. Earmuffs and a DO NOT DISTURB sign would have sufficed.

 

On the other hand, Spike's descent into corruption was portrayed more realistically/funnily than in Secret Of My Excess (which is great), the numerous delegates and Cadance were all high points of the episode. Overall, I still go with:

 

1. Tanks For The Memories

2. The Cutie Map - Part 2

3. Slice Of Life

4. The Cutie Map - Part 1

5. Bloom & Gloom

6. Make New Friends But Keep Discord

7. The Lost Treasure Of Griffonstone

8. Castle Sweet Castle (as a benchmark, I consider this an excellent episode)

9. Appleloosa's Most Wanted

10. Princess Spike

[Abia 258]

Episodes like this make it difficult to defend Spike. There are ways to develop a character without utterly humiliating them.

[CastletonSnob 3,074]

We might get some Spike development:

https://twitter.com/TheBiggestJim/status/612468890224857088

Edited June 24, 2015 by VG_Addict

[Cirrus. 1,089]

Was I the only one who hoped the tree trimmer pony would use a wood chipper while a certain mid-western pony was worriedly watching?

Edited June 24, 2015 by Cirrus.

[Grepper 3,192]

I thought this episode was okay, but the part when the scenes changed to Spike using his power for his own gratification right after Cadence asked Spike if he was abusing his power seemed a bit awkward. It would have made more sense if they were interspersed between the previous scenes.

[CastletonSnob 3,074]

Would you say even the background ponies and Discord are more developed than Spike?

[Abia 258]

Would you say even the background ponies and Discord are more developed than Spike?

 

It's not that Spike isn't developed--he does have some depth--it's just that his weaknesses have remained the same since the show began. He has not grown; it's worse than Fluttershy's recurring cowardice. Sure, Spike's vulnerability to corruption is a part of his nature, but that doesn't mean that episode after episode, season after season, year after year should solely feature this trait.

 

My problem is that Spike is a character with huge potential. His relationship with Twilight, his past, his identity, his self-esteem, and all these other things we have no idea about because of his species, they can all be explored for wonderful possibilities. Yet all these ideas are thrown away in pursuit of a dead horse.

[CastletonSnob 3,074]

It's not that Spike isn't developed--he does have some depth--it's just that his weaknesses have remained the same since the show began. He has not grown; it's worse than Fluttershy's recurring cowardice. Sure, Spike's vulnerability to corruption is a part of his nature, but that doesn't mean that episode after episode, season after season, year after year should solely feature this trait.

 

My problem is that Spike is a character with huge potential. His relationship with Twilight, his past, his identity, his self-esteem, and all these other things we have no idea about because of his species, they can all be explored for wonderful possibilities. Yet all these ideas are thrown away in pursuit of a dead horse.

 

What development has Spike shown? I want specifics.

[Abia 258]

What development has Spike shown? I want specifics.

• Spike encourages his friends to be comfortable and proud of their own talents. ("Boast Busters")
• Spike goes out of his way to make sure his friends get opportunities. (Arranging Hoity Toity's visit to Carousel Boutique in "Suited for Success".)
• Spike is insecure. ("Owl's Well That Ends Well", "Power Ponies", "Inspiration Manifestation", "Equestria Games")
• Spike will give up his own treasures for his friends. ("Secret of My Excess")
• Though he doesn't pursue power or wealth on his own, once exposed to it, Spike will become overambitious and base most of his decisions off of greed or personal gain. ("Secret of My Excess", "Princess Spike")
• Spike's love for his friends is strong enough to make him rethink some philosophies. ("Secret of My Excess")
• Spike is unsure of his own identity, as both a mere helper to the mane six and as a dragon in pony society. ("Dragon Quest")
• Spike has a sense of honor and a moral compass guiding many of his decisions. ("Dragon Quest", "Spike at Your Service")
• While not a leader, Spike is able to take command and do the right thing when lives are at stake. ("The Crystal Empire")
• Spike can be overconfident/overly prideful. ("Just for Sidekicks", "Princess Spike")
• Spike will often overlook what is best for his friends to secure his own happiness. ("Just for Sidekicks", somewhat "Inspiration Manifestation"--sacrificing the needs of the town to protect his relationship with Rarity)
• Though he often works dutifully, Spike is unable to see the value in his role. ("Power Ponies", "Princess Spike")
• Spike lingers on his own failures and has difficulty maintaining confidence. ("Equestria Games")
• Spike prefers to cover up his mistakes rather than accept and admit them. ("Owl's Well That Ends Well", "Just for Sidekicks", "Princess Spike")

 

In my opinion, a good episode is able to reinforce what we've previously learned about a character, while getting them closer to overcoming a flaw. (Introducing new traits can be good, but it really depends upon whether or not it's consistent with what we know already--basically the difference between an episode about Spike's insecurity or an episode about his addiction to crack cocaine; it's got to make decent sense within the context of his character. That, or it must be introduced in a believable way, e.g. Spike's low confidence leading to overconfidence when he is trusted with responsibility, he makes mistakes in this pride, and his self-esteem is knocked back down.)

The writers aren't giving Spike new traits, and aren't expanding upon any of his old ones. They're rehashing the same flaws again and again, with the same pacing, the same downfall, the same humiliation, and the same perfect setup for the cycle to repeat.

[CastletonSnob 3,074]

But has he shown any growth?

[Abia 258]

But has he shown any growth?

 

Sadly, no. Very little, if any, and not nearly at the same scale as the mane six. The one thing I can think of would be Spike's acceptance of his own character and his place in society. Even if he isn't completely satisfied being #2, he knows that he fits in better among ponies than dragons, and that being different from his own kind doesn't make him any worse a person.

He also doesn't appear to be as jealous anymore, which is likely a byproduct of the aforementioned maturation.

[CastletonSnob 3,074]

Sadly, no. Very little, if any, and not nearly at the same scale as the mane six. The one thing I can think of would be Spike's acceptance of his own character and his place in society. Even if he isn't completely satisfied being #2, he knows that he fits in better among ponies than dragons, and that being different from his own kind doesn't make him any worse a person.

He also doesn't appear to be as jealous anymore, which is likely a byproduct of the aforementioned maturation.

 

Would you say Discord and the background ponies have had more growth?

 

How about liking girly stuff? Remember in Season 1, he said he didn't wanna go to the Gala because it was "girly", and he's been shown wearing a pink apron.

 

I think in your last post, you were saying that there's a difference between development and growth. As you showed, Spike does have a good amount of depth.

Edited June 25, 2015 by VG_Addict

[Abia 258]

Would you say Discord and the background ponies have had more growth?

 

How about liking girly stuff? Remember in Season 1, he said he didn't wanna go to the Gala because it was "girly", and he's been shown wearing a pink apron.

 

I think in your last post, you were saying that there's a difference between development and growth. As you showed, Spike does have a good amount of depth.

 

Discord, definitely. The background ponies haven't had much of an opportunity to grow, since their personalities have really just been established.

The girly stuff is a good point as well.