What the heck is the appeal in Trixie?

[Magic Man 222]

It's because she is arrogant.

 

You may be onto something here. That sheer arrogance could itself be a trait interesting enough to many bronies to make them enjoy her.

[Doctor XFizzle 8,669]

Because she is charming enough to have fans, like Tom the Diamond, who I can then tease and antagonize. I wub my Tom <3 :3

[Krystal 1,468]

 

We like her because her arrogance is comical. And just because somepony is an antagonist doesn't mean that nopony should like him/her; everypony likes Darth Vader...

[Starshine 16,333]

some bronies love Trixie with the same reason why others love Discord or even Chrysalis. All of them are antagonist, but charming enough to be an idol

 

Heck, she's damn beautiful, that's for sure

Edited July 9, 2012 by Iron Mare
Threads are now merged.

[Simcity11100 772]

clicky clicky

Feel the wrath!

[sirseansy 87]

 

 

And just because somepony is an antagonist doesn't mean that nopony should like him/her; everypony likes Darth Vader...

 

Yeah, I get that. I'm not entirely sure why I said that. I mean, everyone LOVES discord, and I can understand that. My issue is that her ego is so big that she talks about herself in the third person....

[Jokuc 8,173]

Because ponies.

Seriously though, I dont really know.

[Krystal 1,468]

Yeah, I get that. I'm not entirely sure why I said that. I mean, everyone LOVES discord, and I can understand that. My issue is that her ego is so big that she talks about herself in the third person....

 

Well talking in third person is hilarious.

[Pinkazoid 3,493]

Discord is a bigger antagonist than her, why do bronies like him? cause he's unique....

 

Some like Trixie for being a unique character on the show....

[Dark Qiviut 22,418]

As a Trixie fan myself, there are two reasons:

 

1. Her personality. She's a showboater, but she also wants to be proven. As a showmare, she yearns on obtaining an audience. Most of us do, and she really does. Her outgoing, occasional third-person personality may come off as pretentious, but it also makes fans wonder if there's more to her than just this. She boasts, but fans speculate around her and what she could do. There's plenty of potential for her character to grow, from her abilities as a showmare to her strong confidence.

 

2. The episode's outcome itself. Fan reception for the episode was good, but the ending was mixed because they thought she got the short end of the stick. Fans believe she should be given an extra chance to shine because of her potential as a character, and she's considered to be very redeemable, but she was written as one who just typically takes off after being faced with adversity, a cliché in and of itself.

C&P'd from my post here.

[Akemi Homura 7,680]

Threads merged.

[Pinkazoid 3,493]

Here's my post from the old thread:

 

 

Yeah Trixie wasn't the bestest pony (not according to Tom....) , but think about it like this:

 

Trixie is... complex. She has faults, but also strengths. She came in with a traveling magic show to earn bits and RD, AJ and rarity just started heckling her for... showing off. The Ursa lie, bad, as well as not dropping the showmare facade. But she DID try to fight the bear when those morons brought it in. She could have escaped and left them to die. And her wagon and all possessions were destroyed because of those two idiots, but again she did lie to them....

Now listen to this song and think about how she know has no home, possesions, and she probably didn't even have any friends.....

 

http-~~-//www.youtube.com/watch?v=CTjDCRAVo-Y

 

 

[Starswirl the Trixie 975]

Conversation moved from the Trixie/Diamond Tiara poll to this thread.

 

PS: This is perhaps the wrong thread to continue this debate, which I am enjoying tremendously due to your interesting responses. I would suggest the "What's the appeal in Trixie?" thread instead.

Ta da!

_____

I don't think either of us can objectively deduce what her intention was. I guess we should agree to disagree on this. Although, if I were to go around the forums calling myself "The Most High and Mighty Full Spectrum" and seriously claiming to be the "wittiest man alive", I don't think many people would disagree that it would be arrogance on my part.

Right you are. But forums are different than a magic act.

 

It's not as simple a logical leap as you implied in your response. The issue of whether Applejack is a show off is a separate issue to whether Trixie is or not, in this case. That Applejack competes in rodeos does not immediately make her a show off. Showing off is not so much what you do as how you do it. Here's an analogy. Image a school sports festival with a running event over a few laps. Imagine that there is a very good athlete, some middle of the range contestants, and a unfit athlete. Now if the good athlete starts to lap the others, does that mean he is showing off? No, he is simply competing to the best of his ability. If he were to start jogging backwards, then run some rings around the poor unfit athlete, or play to the crowd, then he would be showing off. In the same way, you would have to look at how she behaves when competing to determine whether or not Applejack shows off during her rodeos.

 

In the same vein, neither does the fact that Trixie does performances, in itself, make her a show off. We need to look at how she behaves to make that decision. For the most part, she isn't showing off, but performing. Although it doesn't help that she at one point makes flowers pop out of the air, and then takes them for herself. Any performer trying to work the audience would be expected to give the flowers to someone in the audience. To my mind, at least. Still, on balance, I would tend to agree that Trixie to some extent needs to perform as she does, so I can forgive her behaviour at the beginning of her show (Except for her claims that she is destined to be the "greatest equine who has ever lived" - cough*Celestia*cough - and to perform the "most spectacular feats of magic ever witnessed by pony eyes" - cough*Celestia raising the Sun*cough, but a little hyperbole never hurt anyone. There's also Star Swirl the Bearded, who was probably a lot stronger in magic, Twilight Sparkle and Luna.)

 

If said runner screams “I’m the best runner ever!”, that is boasting, not showing-off. Showing-off is, for lack of a better term, boasting through actions as opposed to words. Trixie was trying to exercise her special talent (and make a living) off of doing magic tricks; her goal was to wow the audience and make a living. None of her magic tricks appeared to be "showing-off". I personally don’t think her duels with three of the Mane 6 count either, as ponies were trying to upstage her and the three came onstage at their own free will. As for the summoning of flowers example, there is currently no evidence that ponies can summon permenant material. Spike's mustache was removed by Twilight, not leaving a trace behind, as if it were an advanced illusion. Likewise, Trixie's flowers could very well have been either fake or simply a stage prop she teleported into her hands; to retain the illusion she couldn't give them to the audience (not to mention the fact that she didn't want to when the front row was shouting criticisms at her throughout her peformance). Boasting about one's abilities while performing them is not necessarily showing off.

 

Ah, so we've gone from "absolve all responsibility" to "indirect responsibility"? Groovy. I included Spike to make sure I was being fair, but I never said he and Trixie bore the same amount of responsibility. After all, the situation would not have existed if not for her story. The chain originate with the first mention of the Ursa, and that came from Trixie. Finally, while I agree that Trixie cannot possibly have predicted that her story would have the consequences it did, it does excuse her from the responsibility. My ranking would be 1. Snips and Snails 2. Trixie 3. Spike 4. Rainbow Dash (very tenuously)

 

The entire case is difficult to comprehend simply due to one fact: It is absolutely remarkable that S&S were able to get the Ursa in the first place. I struggle to come up with a good analogy because of the nature of their actions. They somehow decided to try to find an Ursa, slipped away from home in the night, walked to the Everfree Forest, found the one cave we know of with an Ursa in it out of countless caves over a huge area, then managed to lead that Ursa back to Ponyville. Even the dragon from “Owls well that ends well” gave up his pursuit of Twilight and Spike after a short while. No one could have ever possibly predicted that such a thing had even a chance of happening. Of course Trixie is indirectly responsible, but at the time no one but S&S would think that there was any chance of something terrible coming of Trixie’s performance. I’m not well versed in US law, but I’m pretty sure that no respectable court would hold Trixie legally accountable for the attack on Ponyville.

 

The brunt of the responsibility lies on S&S for obvious reasons and even Celestia/Mayor Mare for doing nothing to protect Ponyville from the creatures of the Everfree Forest (the former encouraged the Apple family to build their farm right next to it, in fact). These parties knew that their negligence could lead to disaster. At lesser levels of blame are: Trixie, as her actions unintentionally inspired the two young colts to find the Ursa; S&S’s parents, as they could have prevented their sons from wandering off although they had no reason to suspect that the two would run from home; and Spike for giving another part of the inspiration to Snips and Snails. These three parties did not know that they were being negligent. Certainly all of these parties were partially responsible, but the last three (those who did not know of their negligence) cannot be easily ranked as which ones are most and least at fault. What is important to note is that they would not be punished in a modern court, and I suspect that all lawsuits against those three would be thrown out. I don’t see why people, when talking about the Ursa attack, focus solely on Trixie’s involvement. That view was what I was trying to refute with my original post on this page.

 

(And no, I actually don't like long forums debates.)

Edited July 11, 2012 by Starswirl the Trixied

[Half-Note 273]

Honestly! Why do a bunch of people like Trixie?

1. She is only in 1 episode.

2. She is a liar, a boaster and a jerk overall.

3. And most of all she attacked any of the Mane 6 who stepped up to show there productive skills.

 

Anyway yeah. I don't see the appeal in this pony.

 

1. She is best pony.

 

2. So is RD

 

3. She humiliated them, no serious harm befell them.

[Sunny Fox 5,950]

Conversation moved from the Trixie/Diamond Tiara poll to this thread.

 

Ta da!

 

Much better, thanks.

Right you are. But forums are different than a magic act.

 

Not really. Again, it's a person's behaviour while doing something that makes the person arrogant or not, not just what they do. I can think of several ways (and I'm sure you could too) in which a stage magician can perform in a way that would not be called arrogant. After all, that might turn away potential audience members, which any stage magician would wish to avoid.

 

If said runner screams “I’m the best runner ever!”, that is boasting, not showing-off. Showing-off is, for lack of a better term, boasting through actions as opposed to words. Trixie was trying to exercise her special talent (and make a living) off of doing magic tricks; her goal was to wow the audience and make a living. None of her magic tricks appeared to be "showing-off". I personally don’t think her duels with three of the Mane 6 count either, as ponies were trying to upstage her and the three came onstage at their own free will. As for the summoning of flowers example, there is currently no evidence that ponies can summon permenant material. Spike's mustache was removed by Twilight, not leaving a trace behind, as if it were an advanced illusion. Likewise, Trixie's flowers could very well have been either fake or simply a stage prop she teleported into her hands; to retain the illusion she couldn't give them to the audience (not to mention the fact that she didn't want to when the front row was shouting criticisms at her throughout her peformance). Boasting about one's abilities while performing them is not necessarily showing off.

 

I never said anything about boasting in my post. I focused on the showing off aspect instead. Showing off and boasting are separate issues, you are right there. Besides, I have already stated that I DO NOT think of her performance as showing off. Twilight did, but I think she was wrong.

 

Again, I would like to see it proved conclusively that her performances are meant to earn her money. It is routinely assumed, but I have yet to see someone show definitive evidence, or even a sound logic deduction of it. Something less ambiguous than "she's a stage magician, and in our world, stage magicians expect to be paid, therefore she expects to be paid." The much-beloved-by-some episode transcript doesn't mention anything about money that I could find by using the Search function.

 

Trixie challenged them, they accepted. Fine, no criticism there. They did what they do best as well as they could, which is justifiable given that it had become a competition by that point. And except for Applejack, Trixie didn't answer their challenges directly. Instead of beating them at their own game, she opted for attacking them with her magic. I am inclined to be charitable to Trixie here, though, since they didn't agree on exactly what the rules of the challenge were beforehand.

 

Twilight's "growing magic" lasted until she undid the spell, which took another spell, as you said "Twilight removed it". It lasted long enough for Spike to go alone to Rarity's, talk to her, and come all the way back home. That's not an illusion by any reasonable definition of the term, that's more like conjuration. Illusions don't produce something you can interact with, and Spike definitely interacted with his beard. And we do have proof that Twilight can produce permanent things with magic: Rarity's wings in Sonic Rainboom. The wings were fragile and eventually burnt up, but they were as permanent as you could wish for. Twilight even says "They evaporated into thin air!" So does water vapour (gossamer - which fell as visible ash - and morning dew were what made the wings), and that's not an illusion. If you wish to quibble on that, then there's also Spike's tuxedo which was created in Feeling Pinkie Keen and reappears in The Best Night Ever.

 

Rewatching the flower scene, Trixie doesn't even seem to acknowledge that there is an audience. She doesn't look to see the effect it might be having on them or try to elicit a response. She takes the flowers for herself and sniffs them. She's entirely self absorbed. Even assuming she had a valid reason not to give them to anyone in the audience, that scene gave me the strong impression that it was only for her own benefit. And in fact, that flower scene happens before anyone shouted anything. The Mane 6 were talking among themselves until RD shouted out. And there is no evidence that Trixie heard anything they were saying until then.

 

The entire case is difficult to comprehend simply due to one fact: It is absolutely remarkable that S&S were able to get the Ursa in the first place. I struggle to come up with a good analogy because of the nature of their actions. They somehow decided to try to find an Ursa, slipped away from home in the night, walked to the Everfree Forest, found the one cave we know of with an Ursa in it out of countless caves over a huge area, then managed to lead that Ursa back to Ponyville. Even the dragon from “Owls well that ends well” gave up his pursuit of Twilight and Spike after a short while. No one could have ever possibly predicted that such a thing had even a chance of happening. Of course Trixie is indirectly responsible, but at the time no one but S&S would think that there was any chance of something terrible coming of Trixie’s performance. I’m not well versed in US law, but I’m pretty sure that no respectable court would hold Trixie legally accountable for the attack on Ponyville.

 

Being unable to predict something doesn't mean you're not responsible for it if it does happen. And legality is not the same as morality. For example, a criminal whose guilt is manifest could still walk on a technicality (say, a search conducted without a warrant). It doesn't make them any less guilty. And if the criminal then went on to kill someone, the policeman who did the search would still be indirectly responsible, if not legally accountable. And you could bet they'd blame themselves for it.

 

The brunt of the responsibility lies on S&S for obvious reasons and even Celestia/Mayor Mare for doing nothing to protect Ponyville from the creatures of the Everfree Forest (the former encouraged the Apple family to build their farm right next to it, in fact). These parties knew that their negligence could lead to disaster.

 

Celestia, if you'll recall from Granny Smith's story, did warn them not to enter the forest. The forest animals don't cause problems until someone does go into the forest. Granted, Fluttershy found the parasprite without going into the forest, but if she hadn't brought it right into the heart of Ponyville, the events of Swarm of the Century almost certainly wouldn't have happened. The timber wolves only chased Granny Smith because she went looking for food, and the Ursa wouldn't even have woken up if not for Snips and Snails. The only dangerous animal to come to Ponyville of it's own accord was Cerberus, and he came from Tartarus, not the EF. Simply put, the Everfree Forest is not dangerous to Ponyville citizens unless they go into it. So no, neither Celestia or Mayor Mare are at fault. And as we saw, there is a system in place to call the Wonderbolts in if needed. Aside from a gigantic fence, what other measures should they take?

 

At lesser levels of blame are: Trixie, as her actions unintentionally inspired the two young colts to find the Ursa; S&S’s parents, as they could have prevented their sons from wandering off although they had no reason to suspect that the two would run from home; and Spike for giving another part of the inspiration to Snips and Snails. These three parties did not know that they were being negligent. Certainly all of these parties were partially responsible, but the last three (those who did not know of their negligence) cannot be easily ranked as which ones are most and least at fault. What is important to note is that they would not be punished in a modern court, and I suspect that all lawsuits against those three would be thrown out. I don’t see why people, when talking about the Ursa attack, focus solely on Trixie’s involvement. That view was what I was trying to refute with my original post on this page.

 

(And no, I actually don't like long forums debates.)

 

"Cannot easily be ranked" does not mean "cannot be ranked at all", even though, of course, different people might have different ideas about how the ranking should go. I would say it's 1. Snips and Snails 2. Trixie 3. Spike. People focus on Trixie because the issue of the Ursa was first brought by her.To be fair, she probably took the biggest knock from the whole affair, what with her caravan being totalled. So she gets some pity points, but she is not entirely a blameless victim either.

 

Personally, I have different reasons for disliking Trixie, which I have already stated elsewhere in this thread.

 

(My apologies for foisting it on you. I love debates, especially with someone who actually has valid logical points to bring to bear)

Edited July 11, 2012 by Full Spectrum

[Glaceon 793]

I like Trixie because she is extremely funny to watch. And that personality is so epic.

[murkyx 904]

Personal reasons why I think Trixie has so much appeal:

 

1. She's beautiful.

Her design is very well done and stands out of a crowd. A very streamlined appearance, and one of the most visually appealing color pallets seen on the show yet. She draws the eye with her appearance alone.

 

2. She's comical.

She plays the standard "narcissistic show off" personality to the point where it is rather hilarious. She may be abrasive, but many find that it stems from something else and she may have a chance to become more normal, which leads to my third point.

 

3. She has a chance of becoming normal/a more recurring secondary character.

It probably was not intended at first to have Trixie return, which was probably why there was no further mention of her throughout the rest of Season 1 and most of Season 2. However, thanks to Hasbro's further willingness for fanservice, there have been several scenarios demonstrated that show that a 'Trixie Returns' episode is very possible to happen in season 3.

 

So both it's her visual and personality appeal and the chances of her returning that usually gains her so much more attention.

[Sunny Fox 5,950]

I don't really see how the possibility of her return should affect how much one likes her. Those who do like her want her to return, those who don't, don't.

Edited July 11, 2012 by Full Spectrum

[murkyx 904]

Returning probably means a personality change. So people cling to the hope of that happening because a nice Trixie (or just a Trixie that learned her lesson) would be an amazing character.

[Vega 107]

I find Trixie interesting because the writers specifically left the door open for redemption at the end of Boast Busters. That opens up some interesting possibilities for things that could potentially be done with the character in a future episode. (As has been explored in countless fanfics.) Let's examine an idea for such an episode that I have come up with:

 

We start off showing Trixie walking in to Ponyville. She goes to the library and confronts Twilight. A flashback shows that Trixie's career was ruined by the events of Boast Busters and that she been working extremely hard to learn as much powerful magic as possible so she can return to Ponyville, defeat Twilight in a magic duel, and regain her reputation. Twilight accepts her offer of a duel. Over the course of the duel, Twilight beats Trixie quite thoroughly. In desperation, Trixie uses a very powerful spell to conjure up an immensely powerful creature that she loses control of. (It could be established in the flashback that she is aware that this creature would be too powerful for her, but she summons it anyway due to desperation and her trademark arrogance.) The creature starts causing a great deal of damage and Twilight can't stop it alone, but Trixie uses some of her show magic illusions to confuse the creature and allow Twilight to stop it. Afterwards, Trixie admits that her ego got the better of her and that Twilight is the superior magician. Twilight forgives Trixie and says that she could never have defeated the creature without Trixie's help. Trixie and Twilight patch things up, Trixies settles down in Ponyville; perhaps working with Twilight in the library; and becomes a recurring character. The morals of the story are numerous and could vary heavily depending on what the writers wanted to do. Controlling one's ego, forgiveness and accepting one's own talents could be central lessons.

 

That's just something I came up with on the spur of the moment, but something along those lines would be a very solid episode, however, the best parts would come later with Trixie as a supporting character. A "nice" Trixie would be a very fun character. Imagine her as something of a foil to Twilight. (That's why I said that she could work at the library.) Whereas Twilight is a quiet and modest pony, Trixie, even a "nice" Trixie, is very self-confident, sarcastic, dominant, and abrasive. No longer a flaming egomaniac, but still retaining the alpha mare attributes that made her amusing the first time. She'd play off of Twilight brilliantly, throwing witty jabs in left and right. She could also be a character that intentionally attempts to be funny. She's a showpony; entertaining ponies is what she does, so it would make sense for her to have a sense of humor.

 

That is why I like Trixie. Not necessarily because of anything that occurs in Boast Busters, but because her character has a lot of potential.

[Black Star 62]

That's the part people like everyone knows someone in life who brags and brags but can't actually do anything they say they can.

[~The Snowy Wolf~ 1,579]

It's all about the plot.

Edited July 13, 2012 by Vinyl Blade

[Cherry Blossom 864]

Maybe because she's problaby the only antagonist that was a pony.

[AIMonkey 197]

Maybe because she's problaby the only antagonist that was a pony.

 

apart from Flim & Flam that is

 

Anyhow, to me Trixie seems like one who can get a change of hearts, becoming nicer. Unlike Chrysalis and Discord, who are just who they are. They are of a different level.

 

It just feels like there is a good side to Trixie, they left enough open for that. And I would love to break through to that

[Cherry Blossom 864]

apart from Flim & Flam that is

 

Anyhow, to me Trixie seems like one who can get a change of hearts, becoming nicer. Unlike Chrysalis and Discord, who are just who they are. They are of a different level.

 

It just feels like there is a good side to Trixie, they left enough open for that. And I would love to break through to that

 

Oh I totally forgot about the Flim Flam brothers.