S06:E07 - Newbie Dash

[Thrond 3,257]

I have to disagree. They weren't taunting her or making fun of her. They just wanted to make sure she knew that was her new nickname. Yes, I do think the wonderbolts came off a little more mean-spirited than they intended to, but mostly why it hurt Dash so much was because it was the exact same name ponies around her had given her all her life. It carried a lot of bad memories for her and if the wonderbolts had chosen any other name I think the episode would've gone a completely different direction.

 

 

That being said though, I think a couple things could've been done differently (those impressions were a bit cringeworthy), but overall I really liked the episode. I'd give it a solid 8/10.

 

It'd be nice if the history of that nickname actually meant anything in the long run. I think the episode's intent with bringing that up was to have her reclaim what was once used to torment her as a symbol of her success, and I actually respect that idea immensely. I just wish the episode showed a lot more introspection regarding that, and maybe had Rainbow Dash actively reveal why the name bothers her so much. I don't think the Wonderbolts had any intent of being mean-spirited; they gave no sign of realizing Dash was seriously bothered by it until the very end. It wasn't a "reminder" that Rainbow Crash was her nickname; it was just what stuck, and all they saw in Rainbow resisting it was a new rookie whose pride had been wounded. Again, it would have worked significantly better with more introspection instead of, say, the impressions scene. 

 

Still, it's not really what I wanted from this episode. Part of the idea here seems to be to take Rainbow Dash's ego down a peg, but that's what her character development in the past five seasons was for. I think I'd prefer if the episode showed her at her best, ready to meet the challenge that the Wonderbolts's atmosphere provides for her. This is fine too, I guess, but it'd be more fine if it were done a little better. 

[bluseymoe 258]

This episode should've been a triumphant one for Dash, instead it felt kind of half-assed. I actually kinda liked it for the most part, but I really wanted to LOVE it. I think the writers really need to put more thought into what they're doing with her. 

[Music Chart Fan 818]

Overall, this episode was painful to watch, and one which I have no desire to watch again any time soon. Rainbow Dash runs wild with her ego yet again and, rather than prove her reliability and commitment to the team upon joining the Wonderbolts, makes things worse for herself by trying to brag, being dismissive of the rules, and making excuses rather than owning up to her mistakes. Consequently, it's difficult for me to sympathize with Rainbow as she's picked on and called Rainbow Crash by the other Wonderbolts. And her lack of self-reflection about this leads her to try to pull desperate, stupid, and embarrassing stunts. From the other Wonderbolts' side of things, it seems like their harsh treatment of Rainbow might have been a reaction to, and perhaps an attempt to restrain, her annoyingly self-centered behavior, as well as perhaps an attempt to instill the correct attitude in Rainbow. But if that was the case, they don't seem to realize that their treatment of Rainbow wasn't having that effect, and was in fact being counterproductive, when maybe they should have just been more up-front about their problems with Rainbow's behavior and attitude in the first place. Finally, the ending of the episode tries to smooth everything over with Rainbow and the other Wonderbolts, and while I don't think it completely succeeds at doing that, we can try to salvage what we can from it, so that we can just move on from the events of this episode.

 

-----

 

The first major issue in this episode is that, from the beginning, Rainbow Dash has the wrong attitude about what she should be doing as the newest full-fledged member of the Wonderbolts, repeatedly being more concerned about demonstrating her supposed awesomeness rather than demonstrating her commitment to the team and ability to integrate into it. Of course, there are lots of little things Rainbow does to illustrate this. She ignores the rest of the Mane Six's admonitions that being a Wonderbolt may not be as easy as she thinks, and their reminders that the other Wonderbolts are great flyers, too. She acts rather annoying by finishing Spitfire's sentences for her, and she's dismissive toward rule #1. After Rainbow puts on her uniform, she's worried about "going out there and knocking them off their hooves" by demonstrating that she's their "most awesome member ever", even though she's just joined and perhaps should be more worried about showing her reliability and learning the necessary routines quickly and efficiently.

 

And that leads to the garbage can incident and the other Wonderbolts picking on Rainbow and beginning to call her Rainbow Crash, all of which is the result of her ignoring or forgetting rule #1 in a vain attempt to look cool as she walks across the runway. In fact, in the flashback, we see that Rainbow first got the nickname "Rainbow Crash" after a failed attempt to look cool and show off - more or less the same thing that just happened in the present. So I would think that if Rainbow were in the right mindset, she might apologize for not following the rules and promise to follow them in the future, while at least mentally noting to try not to let showing off get the better of her. Instead, she makes stupid excuses and avoids owning up to her mistake. And in the locker room later, Rainbow takes another opportunity to irritatingly brag about herself.

 

As a result of all of this, I find it hard to sympathize with Rainbow as she gets picked on and repeatedly called Crash. It seems like Rainbow is kind of bringing it on herself by failing to reflect on the reasons why the other Wonderbolts might be doing that - her being dismissive of long-standing rules, making bad excuses and dodging responsibility for mistakes, aggravatingly bragging about herself - and trying to do better. When Rainbow mutters "My name's not Crash!", for me, it evokes a response of "Well, stop being so smug and annoying, and maybe they'll stop calling you that!". It seems pretty obvious that Rainbow is exacerbating her own problems, and it also seems like Rainbow ought to have learned not to do this kind of stuff by now.

 

Rainbow further demonstrates her lack of self-reflection when talking to everyone back at her house after her first day. She says that some of the other Wonderbolts started calling her Rainbow Crash, and when Twilight asks why, Rainbow says that she "kinda sorta fell into a garbage can", implying that it was a total accident rather than the result of not following a long-standing and reasonable rule that she was specifically warned about. She also omits her excuse-making, dodging responsibility for mistakes, and attempted bragging. And because Rainbow self-servingly doesn't tell the whole story, the rest of the Mane Six (and Rarity in particular) end up giving Rainbow rather unhelpful advice - to "find a positive way to stand out" - that she takes the wrong way. Maybe if everyone heard the whole story, their advice might be different - perhaps to focus on owning up to her mistakes and demonstrating a commitment to the team and to the rules, rather than trying to find a way to "stand out", which Rainbow might already be doing in a bad way by her behavior up to this point.

 

Next we have the whole segment where Rainbow Dash impersonates the rest of the Mane Six to the Wonderbolts, which is painfully cringeworthy and utterly ridiculous. As soon as the second impersonation started, I thought "Oh god, she's going to go through all the rest of the Mane Six, isn't she?", which she then proceeded to do in an agonizing sequence that just goes on and on and on. I simply cannot fathom what Rainbow thought she would accomplish by doing this, or by persisting with it after it's painfully obvious that no one is taking a liking to it. After being yelled at by Spitfire to stop, Rainbow says that she's just "trying to show everypony all the awesome ways I can contribute to the 'Bolts". But she's just doing impersonations, and those impersonations aren't who she is or what she can contribute to the Wonderbolts. Besides, what would the best-case scenario even be? If the Wonderbolts were take a liking to one of Rainbow's impersonations, then what? Maybe she loses the Rainbow Crash nickname, but she trades that for having to do that impersonation around the Wonderbolts forever (or at least for the foreseeable future). Would that really be any better? Would Rainbow really be committed to doing that?

 

And even near the end of the episode, Rainbow shows that she still apparently hasn't figured out what she's been doing wrong. She says that the Wonderbolts were right to call her Rainbow Crash because "since I joined the Wonderbolts, I've only stood out for making mistakes". But, again, that's not the whole story or even necessarily the primary story - Rainbow has also "stood out" for dismissing a long-standing rule, making excuses and not owning up to her mistakes, bragging irritatingly, and trying to make herself look good with recklessly dangerous stunts. Only after Spitfire gets Rainbow to promise not to "constantly try to showboat" do we get any indication that Rainbow has learned the correct lesson.

 

-----

 

The other major issue in this episode is how the Wonderbolts treated Rainbow Dash, and what they could have done better. It's a kind of stereotype that new recruits in the military (or at least a military-like organization) are insulted, yelled at, made to clean the barracks or do other menial labor, etc. And I can see at least the superficial reasoning behind it - that new recruits need to check their egos, prove their dependability, handle high-stress situations, etc. And having to deal with these things might be generally understood to be something one agrees to when one voluntarily signs up for the military - if you don't like it, then don't join, or stay in, the military. I wouldn't want to deal with that kind of culture, but then, I don't have to; that's just one of many reasons why I wouldn't join the military or an organization modeled on the military. (I'll admit, though, that I don't know to what extent this kind of thing actually occurs in the U.S. military.)

 

However, there are at least a couple of issues with the Wonderbolts picking on Rainbow in the episode, though. One is that, as mentioned above, Rainbow takes her treatment and the Crash nickname personally, and doesn't seem to realize that that treatment might be, at least to some extent, how all new recruits are treated, for reasons like the ones in the previous paragraph. So, if this is standard operating procedure for new recruits, then perhaps the Wonderbolts should be clearer about how new recruits are treated, and why, before those recruits actually join the Wonderbolts. I should point out, though, that, as I alluded to previously, the other Wonderbolts' treatment of Rainbow might be, at least somewhat, a visceral reaction to their annoyance at Rainbow's self-centered behavior, rather than the pre-planned and coordinated treatment that they give to all new recruits.

 

Another major problem, though, is that the other Wonderbolts' treatment of Rainbow Dash isn't having the effect of humbling Rainbow, getting her to accept responsibility for her mistakes, and getting her to focus on working together with the team. Arguably, the other Wonderbolts should have seen that their treatment wasn't "effective" after she continued to try increasingly desperately to brag and promote herself even after repeatedly calling her Crash, ordering her to clean the compound, etc. Maybe, after starting to see this, the other Wonderbolts could have pointed out the message that they were trying to send more explicitly, but who knows, maybe even that wouldn't have penetrated Rainbow's thick skull (at least as she's portrayed in this episode).

 

The Wonderbolts' revealing near the end of the episode that they all have embarrassing nicknames they call each other is rather jarring and seems like a bit of a non sequitur. I can see how the Wonderbolts' initially embarrassing nicknames could become affectionate nicknames that they "own" and laugh with everyone about, rather than being laughed at. But presumably this occurs over time, after they prove themselves to be valuable team contributors and become good friends with the team. The other Wonderbolts' calling Rainbow by the nickname Crash up to that point didn't really seem to be in this spirit of camaraderie - as discussed above, it seemed more like a reaction to, and perhaps(failed) attempt to restrain, Rainbow's self-centered behavior. If this was the case, then the Wonderbolts really should be up-front about why they repeatedly called Rainbow "Crash", rather than deflecting and implying that it was an affectionate nickname when it wasn't yet.

 

So what I get from all of this is that the Wonderbolts probably should reconsider how they treat new recruits, to avoid having situations like Rainbow Dash reacting badly to how she was treated and attempting reckless and dangerous stunts as a result. I'm just spitballing here, but what if each new recruit had a senior Wonderbolt mentor assigned to her? A mentor could make sure that the new member is on the same page about what the other members expect of her, act as a sounding board for the new member's concerns, be an intermediary between the new member and the rest of the team, and keep an eye on the new member to try to make sure she isn't doing anything reckless or stupid. I could imagine Soarin' playing this role for Rainbow Dash, considering that they at least somewhat know each other, and have cheered on and stuck up for each other before. (Soarin' even showed at least a little concern about Rainbow when he asked if she was okay after she dove into the garbage can, although he also participated in laughing at her afterward.)

 

However, it could be argued that this whole idea would ruin the point of the tough-on-new-recruits treatment, since arguably the recruits wouldn't really be learning to cope with high stress on their own or checking their egos if their mentors are there to "make it all better". And there's a good chance that this whole idea is just wishful thinking, since the Wonderbolts may not be likely to make any significant changes anyway. Rainbow could take it upon herself to play this kind of mentor role with new recruits down the line, considering her experiences, even if nothing else changes, although she might get in trouble for doing so or be strongly pressured by the rest of the team not to do it. So I don't know, there may not really be much cause for hope on this front.

 

-----

 

So, after all the stupid, baffling, and embarrassing events of the episode, where do things actually stand? I'll admit that I want to find a way to make peace with the events of the episode and move on, hopefully with minimal damage to Rainbow's story arc. So a charitable interpretation of the state of things after this episode might be the following. Rainbow has promised not to showboat as a condition of staying with the Wonderbolts, so we might hope that she actually learns that lesson and takes it seriously if she wants to stay a Wonderbolt. Rainbow also accepted a reasonable punishment for her reckless attempted stunt. The rest of the Wonderbolts did express admiration for Rainbow and demonstrated a desire for her to be on the team, in spite of their prior name-calling and picking on her, for whatever reasons they might have done that. After the rest of the Wonderbolts showed that they all have embarrassing nicknames, hopefully calling Rainbow by her embarrassing nickname will become good-spirited, too. Rainbow and the rest of the Wonderbolts seem to be on good terms with each other, or are least on the right path to that, and Rainbow does seem actually happy to be in the Wonderbolts now. None of this really makes the episode any less painful to watch, but it might help in feeling better about Rainbow's story arc as we move past this episode.

 

Now for some final miscellaneous observations:

 

From the opening, was the plan actually for Spitfire to find Rainbow Dash and tell her that she's a Wonderbolt wherever Spitfire happened to find her? Did those three Wonderbolts fly over Ponyville specifically to find and tell Rainbow Dash the news? It seems a bit strange for them only to inform her by mouth without any documentation for posterity. Or did they maybe send her a notice in the mail or something, but those three Wonderbolts happened to be flying overhead and Spitfire happened to see Rainbow Dash, so Spitfire made a spontaneous decision to go ahead and tell Rainbow in person?

 

As she's done before, Pinkie exhibits annoyingly stupid and jerk-like behavior in this episode. Perhaps the most egregious example is that Pinkie is supposedly the most excited one to see Rainbow Dash perform, but then she misses the performance because she's too busy shouting "Bigger!" repeatedly at the cotton candy maker and completely wearing him out, then complaining about how long he took as though she was making a perfectly reasonable demand.

 

Spike's being gratuitously injured and ignored in the sequence where Rainbow is first preparing to leave isn't funny, and I've never really found that kind of thing funny.

 

The episode does provide a plausible explanation for why Rainbow hadn't yet been promoted from the Reserves to become a full-fledged Wonderbolt - they wanted to promote her, but had to wait for a spot to open up.

 

I'm not sure what Rainbow has packed in her bulging suitcase if she's able to fly back home at the end of the day, as she did after her first day.

 

It's weird that Rainbow tells Scootaloo to kick the storm cloud "into her path", which would seem to imply in front of Rainbow, but then Rainbow says that "that kick will shoot off a lightning bolt right behind me". So which is it? Maybe that confusion contributed to failure of the stunt.

 

Finally, I've never liked the "wacky series of unfortunate and implausible-beyond-belief coincidences" cartoon trope, and consequently, I wasn't laughing or entertained when that happened as a result of Rainbow's stunt backfiring.

[Lagrangian 64]

This episode hurt me in my soul, but in a good way.

5/5

[Merion 783]

Okay, does clipping mean something different for Pegasi? Because clipped wings renders birds flightless.

 

It means something different for planes. When a plane clips something, it means that its wing collides with something (usually at a full speed and causing damage to both the plane and the struck object). I guess that's what Soarin meant!

 

 

Anyway... Has anyone noticed this cool wing design? Wouldn't it be nice if ponies actually had wings like these? 

Edited May 10, 2016 by Merion

[CastletonSnob 3,026]

Rainbow's episodes tend to be divisive. Mare Do Well, Daring Don't, Rainbow Falls, Tanks for the Memories, and now this episode.

[PiratePony 8,473]

Not for nothing, once Rainbow Dash told the Wonderbolts with sincerity how she felt, they explained the situation and complimented the wazoo out of her. If she had said something earlier, instead of concocting a scheme to show everyone how great she is, I'm sure they would have done the same thing then.

 

Maybe the moral is to communicate your feelings and to see if you're really interpreting a bad situation to be what it is.  I said it in my earlier post, but, the bullies at Flight School were trying to cause damage to RD; the Wonderbolts were creating a kinship and friendship in a different way.  It shows that not all friendships are like the Mane 6's. I have a group of friends here in New York that act like wiseguys out of the Goodfellas, and all they do is bash each other and call each other names. That's their way of creating a friendship. 

 

And before I get jumped on, I also think comparing the nickname hazing of the Wonderbolts to extreme and criminal forms of hazing is a stretch. Calling someone a malicious nickname a dozen times or so isn't comparable to assaulting or murdering someone. That's like comparing someone shoplifting a pack of gum to armed robbery.   

 

(Prepares to be merced in the replies)

[Guest]

Stuck Up Asshole. 

 

.... I hope so, anyway.

You are probably right that nickname fits real well

[Glaive9Gko 82]

Solid ep, I'd say

++ Dash pone best pone. Immediate bias boost

++ eheheh, shitfire. I don't care if its not canon. 

+ I know some people are annoyed by the number of screenshotable faces happening recently, but I'm a fan. 

+ Spits and Dashie geeking out together! So cute!

- since the problem presented didn't really get changed in the end, it felt like a bit of a non-conflict. Now sure, some might say that the real focus of the ep was dashie overcoming her baggage, and they'd be right, but doing it by sidestepping the plot just feels a bit unsatisfying to me. Not that big of a deal really, just strange. 

 

Overall I'll give this one a RainbowCrash/10

[EquestriaGuy 1,074]

regarding all this talk about hazing.....

 

 

It's not hazing if you're receiving the "punishment" yourself. Everyone on that team has an unfortunate nickname, now Dash does too. It's not hazing at all.

 

As for the episode itself, I quite enjoyed it. Dash's impressions were amazing, and I loved the cold open of Scoots losing her mind over Dash's promotion, while Dash stood there broken The final scene was absolutely PERFECT. Dash finally fully understood the camaraderie the Bolts have for one another, and was able to fully appreciate the blessing of realizing her life's dream. Such a wonderful ending and an amusingly ironic start to Dash's career, whom will probably go down as the greatest Wonderbolt in history. One last thing I liked was that FINALLY one of the mane 6 was publically acknowledged for their heroics. We never see them get any special treatment even in situations where we're begging for it. 

[HoovesOnIce 74]

One of my favorite things about this episode is that it didn't end all peachy. Rainbow was a real screw up in this episode and it would seem strange for them to brush that off.

 

Oh, and also this frame.

 

.

[bamboozled321 57]

Wrong. Objective measures of quality exist. Quality characterization, coherency of plot, steering clear of unfortunate implications, not conforming to stereotypes, and making sure the actions and plot elements make sense are some of them.

Nonsense, I don't think you know what objective means. An objective quality in writing that one could measure would be things like grammar or spelling. We can measure whether or not your spelling is correct, we can't measure 'correct' characterization or plot progressions. This would be like saying that one characters color pallet is objectively better than another characters because this ones adheres to color theory. Color theory is not objective science, just like literary devices or narrative techniques are not objective science.

 

This episode highlighted Rainbows very blatant and obvious narcissistic tendencies beautifully, and closed on a satisfying arc. Everything she did in this episode was very much so believable because she's been shown to do similar things in previous episodes. It doesn't matter if you think it was the right or wrong thing to do, what matters is that it was consistent with her character and one could reasonably assume she would do those things. Sometimes, characters don't act the exact same way in every single situation, especially after learning lessons or even behaving differently in other contextual scenarios, that is not believable because real people don't act that way. Characterization was flawless.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited May 10, 2016 by bamboozled321

[weesh 690]

regarding all this talk about hazing.....

 

It's not hazing if you're receiving the "punishment" yourself. Everyone on that team has an unfortunate nickname, now Dash does too. It's not hazing at all.

 

It seems to be hazing to me, but it isn't really clear what your argument is.

Are you saying "if the abuse happened to everyone when they joined, it isn't hazing"?  because that is EXACTLY what hazing is.  

[EquestriaGuy 1,074]

It seems to be hazing to me, but it isn't really clear what your argument is.

Are you saying "if the abuse happened to everyone when they joined, it isn't hazing"? because that is EXACTLY what hazing is.

If I'm your superior and tell you to do 20 push-ups, and I do them alongside you, it's not hazing. Same thing here, if I give you an unfortunate nickname, but I have one myself and can be referred by it, it's not hazing.

[weesh 690]

Nonsense, I don't think you know what objective means. An objective quality in writing that one could measure would be things like grammar or spelling. We can measure whether or not your spelling is correct, we can't measure 'correct' characterization or plot progressions. This would be like saying that one characters color pallet is objectively better than another characters because this ones adheres to color theory. Color theory is not objective science, just like literary devices or narrative techniques are not objective science.

 

I think you know what objective means, but don't understand the art behind the creation of stories, and just how objective it actually can be.

There are absolutely good and bad decisions that go into characterization, plot, flow, colors, etc that have been widely studied, can be taught, and can be objectively considered right and wrong.  

For instance, if you show someone in a position of power from a high angle, 99% of the time, you are doing it objectively wrong, because it will tend to confuse your audiences.  

If I'm your superior and tell you to do 20 push-ups, and I do them alongside you, it's not hazing. Same thing here, if I give you an unfortunate nickname, but I have one myself and can be referred by it, it's not hazing.

 

no one else was called by their nickname during the first 90% of the episode.  Dash was singled out both for the abuse, and for the cleaning duty (punishment for being the worst).  

Also, I find it to be a fallacy that it's ok to abuse one person if everyone is being abused.  

 

Had Dash had full knowledge of everyone's painful nickname, maybe it would have tipped from "hazing" to being just generally toxic.  Calling someone a name they hate, after they have told you twice to cut it out is just downright disrespectful.  

 

If you want to split hairs and give it a different label than hazing, fine, but it was still really mean and unnecessary.  

[bamboozled321 57]

I think you know what objective means, but don't understand the art behind the creation of stories, and just how objective it actually can be.

There are absolutely good and bad decisions that go into characterization, plot, flow, colors, etc that have been widely studied, can be taught, and can be objectively considered right and wrong.  

For instance, if you show someone in a position of power from a high angle, 99% of the time, you are doing it objectively wrong, because it will tend to confuse your audiences.  

You're misunderstanding. There is no arguing that a rock exists, this is a fact, it is objective. There is no arguing that the color of this table is red, because we can run it through a machine that will identify the wavelengths which match with this particular shade of red. We can run this test 1000 times and the result will be the same. Whether or not this plot is good, or if this character's colors are appealing is not objective because they're predicated by ones feelings. Nobody is going to agree completely bias free, and we can not measure the quality of these works through any other mechanical means, thus to say that these things could be objectively measured with any kind of consistent accuracy is intellectually dishonest and completely erroneous.

 

I'm not contesting that there can be some sort of agreed upon techniques that have been shown to be somewhat consistent in delivering satisfying and enjoyable media in the arts, nobody is saying that isn't true, but to say that something like "This is objectively better because it follows color theory" is laughable. Please show me these peer reviewed, empirical publications proving the objectivity of literary techniques and narrative devices, I'm quite curious.

 

Edited May 10, 2016 by bamboozled321

[EquestriaGuy 1,074]

I think you know what objective means, but don't understand the art behind the creation of stories, and just how objective it actually can be.

There are absolutely good and bad decisions that go into characterization, plot, flow, colors, etc that have been widely studied, can be taught, and can be objectively considered right and wrong.

For instance, if you show someone in a position of power from a high angle, 99% of the time, you are doing it objectively wrong, because it will tend to confuse your audiences.

 

 

no one else was called by their nickname during the first 90% of the episode. Dash was singled out both for the abuse, and for the cleaning duty (punishment for being the worst).

Also, I find it to be a fallacy that it's ok to abuse one person if everyone is being abused.

 

Had Dash had full knowledge of everyone's painful nickname, maybe it would have tipped from "hazing" to being just generally toxic. Calling someone a name they hate, after they have told you twice to cut it out is just downright disrespectful.

 

If you want to split hairs and give it a different label than hazing, fine, but it was still really mean and unnecessary.

I had a whole post typed up, but the site decided to take a shit and 404, so now it's gone.

 

 

Umm short version is the cleaning duty was equal opportunity, because even if Spitfire was the worst flyer, she'd have to do the cleaning. Also you'd have to look at it in the inverse too. No one would complain about someone being singled out for reward.

[weesh 690]

I had a whole post typed up, but the site decided to take a shit and 404, so now it's gone.

 

 

Umm short version is the cleaning duty was equal opportunity, because even if Spitfire was the worst flyer, she'd have to do the cleaning. Also you'd have to look at it in the inverse too. No one would complain about someone being singled out for reward.

 

bummer.

 

equal opportunity?

a team that has been working together for years, throws a newbie into the mix two days before an event with a routine she has never practiced...

and punishes the worst flier.

 

yeah, its POSSIBLE that spit fire could have been the worst...

but the system is rigged against the newbie.

 

they could have made clean up a team building activity...but instead it was used to isolate and humiliate Dash on her first day with the team.  

[EquestriaGuy 1,074]

bummer.

 

equal opportunity?

a team that has been working together for years, throws a newbie into the mix two days before an event with a routine she has never practiced...

and punishes the worst flier.

 

yeah, its POSSIBLE that spit fire could have been the worst...

but the system is rigged against the newbie.

 

they could have made clean up a team building activity...but instead it was used to isolate and humiliate Dash on her first day with the team.

I like that you used the term "team building" but I would prefer they not change the rules for Dash, and instead teach her the realities of the position, one she'll benefit from greatly in the future. You've also got to consider that the Bolts probably expected someone else to be the worst flyer since by their own admission she's the most talented flyer. Once she's familiar with their aerial routine, she'll literally never have that duty ever again.

[weesh 690]

You're misunderstanding. There is no arguing that a rock exists, this is a fact, it is objective. There is no arguing that the color of this table is red, because we can run it through a machine that will identify the wavelengths which match with this particular shade of red. We can run this test 1000 times and the result will be the same. Whether or not this plot is good, or if this character's colors are appealing is not objective because they're predicated by ones feelings. Nobody is going to agree completely bias free, and we can not measure the quality of these works through any other mechanical means, thus to say that these things could be objectively measured with any kind of consistent accuracy is intellectually dishonest and completely erroneous.

 

I'm not contesting that there can be some sort of agreed upon techniques that have been shown to be somewhat consistent in delivering satisfying and enjoyable media in the arts, nobody is saying that isn't true, but to say that something like "This is objectively better because it follows color theory" is laughable. Please show me these peer reviewed, empirical publications proving the objectivity of literary techniques and narrative devices, I'm quite curious.

 

Your standard for "objective" is unfairly high.

The insistence that I take facts on color philosophy to the standard of measurable light wavelength isn't helpful.  All that does is make it hard to communicate.

What needs to be true for something to be objective is that it is easily and clearly supported by facts without personal feelings or opinions influencing the judgement.  

 

Check out THIS video in the film theorist craft of filmmaking series.  I picked one that deals with color specifically.

The narrator is terribly annoying, but he knows his stuff.

 

If you really want to hold me to the "red light is 700nm" level of fact, then we don't have enough common ground to have a discussion.  If you are willing to accept that making media has accepted principles that have been studied, analyzed and honed to a fine point, then it isn't hard to make a case that "newbie dash" has SOME elements that are objectively bad.  

I like that you used the term "team building" but I would prefer they not change the rules for Dash, and instead teach her the realities of the position, one she'll benefit from greatly in the future. You've also got to consider that the Bolts probably expected someone else to be the worst flyer since by their own admission she's the most talented flyer. Once she's familiar with their aerial routine, she'll literally never have that duty ever again.

 

The realities of being a wonderbolt are apparently humiliating nicknames, and punishing the worst flier...as if elite athletes that underperform don't already beat themselves up.

You can call it any name you want, make all the excuses that you want, and use dumptruck load of sugar coating, but it is still awful.

 

The wonderbolts should be role models.

But instead they are absolutely brutal to Dash...pushing her past the breaking point. 

 

Yeah, maybe dash will rise above the level of that humiliation...but someone is still taking it.

 

I could have handled the episode if Dash had stood up to the SYSTEM.  But her accepting that level of disrespect, just because everyone was mean to everyone, drives me crazy.

 

I don't want them to change the rules just for dash either.  I want them to change their culture for everyone.

Edited May 10, 2016 by weesh

[EquestriaGuy 1,074]

Your standard for "objective" is unfairly high.

The insistence that I take facts on color philosophy to the standard of measurable light wavelength isn't helpful. All that does is make it hard to communicate.

What needs to be true for something to be objective is that it is easily and clearly supported by facts without personal feelings or opinions influencing the judgement.

 

Check out THIS video in the film theorist craft of filmmaking series. I picked one that deals with color specifically.

The narrator is terribly annoying, but he knows his stuff.

 

If you really want to hold me to the "red light is 700nm" level of fact, then we don't have enough common ground to have a discussion. If you are willing to accept that making media has accepted principles that have been studied, analyzed and honed to a fine point, then it isn't hard to make a case that "newbie dash" has SOME elements that are objectively bad.

 

 

The realities of being a wonderbolt are apparently humiliating nicknames, and punishing the worst flier...as if elite athletes that underperform don't already beat themselves up.

You can call it any name you want, make all the excuses that you want, and use dumptruck load of sugar coating, but it is still awful.

 

The wonderbolts should be role models.

But instead they are absolutely brutal to Dash...pushing her past the breaking point.

 

Yeah, maybe dash will rise above the level of that humiliation...but someone is still taking it.

 

I could have handled the episode if Dash had stood up to the SYSTEM. But her accepting that level of disrespect, just because everyone was mean to everyone, drives me crazy.

 

I don't want them to change the rules just for dash either. I want them to change their culture for everyone.

That seems to me like an obscenely hyperbolic judgement.

[Sonic5421 423]

regarding all this talk about hazing.....

 

 

It's not hazing if you're receiving the "punishment" yourself. Everyone on that team has an unfortunate nickname, now Dash does too. It's not hazing at all.

 

As for the episode itself, I quite enjoyed it. Dash's impressions were amazing, and I loved the cold open of Scoots losing her mind over Dash's promotion, while Dash stood there broken The final scene was absolutely PERFECT. Dash finally fully understood the camaraderie the Bolts have for one another, and was able to fully appreciate the blessing of realizing her life's dream. Such a wonderful ending and an amusingly ironic start to Dash's career, whom will probably go down as the greatest Wonderbolt in history. One last thing I liked was that FINALLY one of the mane 6 was publically acknowledged for their heroics. We never see them get any special treatment even in situations where we're begging for it. 

 

Yeah. My guess is that after getting their magic stolen by Lord Tirek thanks to Discord rendering them unable to fight back, and then getting it back thanks to Rainbow, that really bolstered the Wonderbolts' respect for her and thus why Fleetfoot acknowledged the Mane Six's heroics when showing Rainbow she's still a Wonderbolt and why they have been wanting her on the team ever since she entered the Reserves.

[weesh 690]

That seems to me like an obscenely hyperbolic judgement.

 

you quoted a lot of sentences.  could you say which specific idea you consider to be hyperbole?  

Edited May 10, 2016 by weesh

[bamboozled321 57]

Your standard for "objective" is unfairly high.

The insistence that I take facts on color philosophy to the standard of measurable light wavelength isn't helpful.  All that does is make it hard to communicate.

What needs to be true for something to be objective is that it is easily and clearly supported by facts without personal feelings or opinions influencing the judgement.  

 

Check out THIS video in the film theorist craft of filmmaking series.  I picked one that deals with color specifically.

The narrator is terribly annoying, but he knows his stuff.

 

If you really want to hold me to the "red light is 700nm" level of fact, then we don't have enough common ground to have a discussion.  If you are willing to accept that making media has accepted principles that have been studied, analyzed and honed to a fine point, then it isn't hard to make a case that "newbie dash" has SOME elements that are objectively bad.  

 

The realities of being a wonderbolt are apparently humiliating nicknames, and punishing the worst flier...as if elite athletes that underperform don't already beat themselves up.

You can call it any name you want, make all the excuses that you want, and use dumptruck load of sugar coating, but it is still awful.

 

The wonderbolts should be role models.

But instead they are absolutely brutal to Dash...pushing her past the breaking point. 

 

Yeah, maybe dash will rise above the level of that humiliation...but someone is still taking it.

 

I could have handled the episode if Dash had stood up to the SYSTEM.  But her accepting that level of disrespect, just because everyone was mean to everyone, drives me crazy.

 

I don't want them to change the rules just for dash either.  I want them to change their culture for everyone.

Look if you think my levels of what constitutes objectivity are too high, then the scientific method we use to reasonabley conclude what is and is not objective fact must be completely absurd to you.

 

"Among scientific researchers, empirical evidence (as distinct from empirical research) refers to objective evidence that appears the same regardless of the observer. For example, a thermometer will not display different temperatures for each individual who observes it. Temperature, as measured by an accurate, well calibrated thermometer, is empirical evidence. By contrast, non-empirical evidence is subjective, depending on the observer. Following the previous example, observer A might truthfully report that a room is warm, while observer B might truthfully report that the same room is cool, though both observe the same reading on the thermometer. The use of empirical evidence negates this effect of personal (i.e., subjective) experience or time."

 

Replace "a room is warm" with " 'x' character is being mischaracterized" and "the same room is cool" with " 'x' character is being characterized correctly". Oh look, we have no such tool to outside of human perception to measure characterization, well I guess this test was a waste of time, you know unlike a functional thermometer when reading temperature. 

 

We're talking about subjective feelings about a character, not factual information. We can not accurately measure good or bad characterization with the empirical scientific method, because it is predicated on subjective feelings. Thus to say that " "x's" characterization is bad" or " "x's characterization is good" would be impossible to conclude objectively, you know, as a fact, as true across the board. You should also never just assume people are going to be unbiased, that's impossible, even if they actively try to avoid bias.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Empirical_research

 

What you think or define as objective does not make it objective mate.

 

You can say something is bad, and if your arguments are strong and logical, then you'll change my mind, but again, calling it objective is straight up wrong. All you saying "This thing is bad" means, is that you think it's bad, not that it is a fact that it is bad.

 

I guess we're not going to see eye to eye on this, and that's fine, but to me what you're saying is just completely ridiculous to me, it's like on the level of people proclaiming god is factually real because a lot of people agree that he's real, and then point to the bible to back up their claims. Or Freudian psychology simply because it was popular at the time, and a bunch of professionals got into a room and agreed that it was true. This metric of deciding what is objective and what is not has been proven time and time again to be unreliable and even falsifiable. That's not the kind of lens I want to view objectivity from.

Edited May 11, 2016 by bamboozled321

[weesh 690]

I guess we're not going to see eye to eye on this, and that's fine, but to me what you're saying is just completely ridiculous to me...

 

Well, we are agreed on two things.

 

...Replace "a room is warm" with " 'x' character is being mischaracterized"...

 

its as if you think that I'm claiming ALL things related to the craft of storytelling can be broken down objectively, and nothing could be farther from the truth.  

I'm arguing that SOME things are factual and objective, and you are arguing that NONE are by saying that some things aren't.   

 

In the 100th episode, we see the inert fireworks at the beginning of the episode.  If we'd never seen them again, that would have been objectively bad, because seeing them and acknowledging the mystery sets up an expectation.  They are mentioned earlier precisely to set up that expectation and excitement.  That is like film 101.  If you see something out of the ordinary, it should matter, or it should be cut from the scene, as it distracts from your story.  To claim that such a basic tenant of film craft is subjective feeling rather than a rule on which you can build objectivity is silly to me.  

 

That wikipedia article on empirical research defines it as "It is a way of gaining knowledge by means of direct and indirect observation or experience".

Knowledge gained by direct observation and experience is exactly what is taught in film school.  There are many things in film that are observed the same by all people and are observer independent as required by a useful definition of objectivity.

Edited May 11, 2016 by weesh