Starlight Glimmer was never supposed to feel a part of the Mane 6

[KH7672 1,604]

I've seen plenty of threads about her lack of appearances, her preferences for secondary characters, and just an overall distance from the Mane 6. I'm not here to give excuses for the frustration of the Mane 6 seeming being sidelined in all her episodes but I wonder...what if it was always on purpose? What if the reason she's not getting any development with the main cast and more with secondary characters is the same reason the Mane 6 haven't had any big episodes since Season 5 with ponies other than themselves: The status quo of the movie.  

If Starlight really was written following some of the bullet points of Sunset's arc leaving her out of the movie would be like an EQG movie with Sunset standing in the background with not even a line. It wouldn't be fair. It is entirely possible there was a deliberate decision to keep her distant from the Mane 6 so that fans wouldn't expect her to be with them and the movie wouldn't have to be rewritten to incorporate her fairly. They can easily throw her into the background with her secondary character friends.

So this begs the question: was this new secondary character worth it? A character fans felt should be a part of the Mane cast but was never treated like one possibly on purpose. Who knows, maybe after the movie Starlight will get more episodes sharing and not hogging the spotlight from the Mane 6.

[Mirage 24,774]

I'll have to give that some thought...

I like starlight Glimmer but I don't think she is nearly as interesting as any of the Mane 6.

The writers will have to be wise about how they use her - that's for sure.

[Steve Piranha 29,471]

Nah, I think that Starlight is as much of  a main character now as the Mane 6, but they've decided to make her more independent from them. It's a third set of main character, with the cuties being the second. But yeah, that explanation of Starlight being more independent is to avoid that in the movie, but I doubt it was entirely that reason, I think the reasons are more meta, like the movie being developed as early as 2014 (no Starlight), the script was done afterwards with no clue what the show will do with her

[Ganondorf8 11,432]

If anything, I see her as a secondary character who just so happens to have made more appearances than other secondary characters.

[Lambdadelta 1,462]

She is not a part of the mane 6, she is not a mane 7 or 8, and right now she doesnt need to be. She is not a solely supporting character to "support" another main character, she will be a character on her own. Starlight dont even need to be connected with the Mane 6 outside of Twilight to be relevant, they should do that in the first place, instead of trying to pretend she will be another replacement of Sunset Shimmer (that one of S6 mistakes). Look at her color, it not even fit, two purple is redundant.

Edited July 19, 2017 by Lambdadelta

[Hierok 11,832]

I would actually prefer if she got more interaction with the mane 6. Like in all bottled up, she only talked to Twilight and the others didn't say a word before they went on the train. 

[Kyoshi Frost Wolf 41,982]

Starlight is simply too solitary of a character to have 'mane' status. Many of her episodes seem to have nothing to do with the mane 6. That is one of the reasons why it bothered me that the cutie map actually called on her for something. Made little to no sense to me.

[KH7672 1,604]

34 minutes ago, Kyoshi said:

That is one of the reasons why it bothered me that the cutie map actually called on her for something. Made little to no sense to me.

The cutie map is a frustrating concept. I like to believe it knows exactly the pony or ponies to send to solve the problem. Hence why it sent a pony who can literally give the sisters a day in each other's shoes, something they really needed or maybe you feel they didn't. Are you on the boat that it should have been Twilight called there?

34 minutes ago, Kyoshi said:

Starlight is simply too solitary of a character to have 'mane' status. Many of her episodes seem to have nothing to do with the mane 6. 

But like you said most of her episodes having nothing to do with the Mane 6. It just seems that there was some expectation to be part of the Mane 6, but like I've been feeling there really hasn't and there never was supposed to be this feeling of Starlight joining that friend circle at least closely--they'll still answer her call for advice or help like would for any of the townsponies.

[Mirage 24,774]

I sense that Starlight is a fail-safe for the Mane 6, as in the Season 6 finale To Where and Back Again. She is so damn powerful though, I still don't fully trust her with mah ponies...

[CypherHoof 26,483]

19 minutes ago, Mirage77 said:

I sense that Starlight is a fail-safe for the Mane 6, as in the Season 6 finale To Where and Back Again. She is so damn powerful though, I still don't fully trust her with mah ponies...

I think she idolizes Twi now, to an unhealthy extent, and she isn't going to do anything deliberately to jeopardize that. The keyword there though is deliberately - she tends to react badly (and usually with magic) to surprises or stress or... well, anything really.  Very much a grenade with the pin pulled, and if enraged, it would take more than just one Alicorn to stop her.  Discord could probably do it, but given she got his precious Fluttershy back for him, he is probably more likely to help her (assuming Flutters isn't being upset or hurt) than hinder.

[Mirage 24,774]

I follow you...good points.

It's just that her idolization can get downright smarmy...scares me man, scares me.

[KH7672 1,604]

4 minutes ago, CypherHoof said:

I think she idolizes Twi now, to an unhealthy extent, and she isn't going to do anything deliberately to jeopardize that. The keyword there though is deliberately - she tends to react badly (and usually with magic) to surprises or stress or... well, anything really.  Very much a grenade with the pin pulled, and if enraged, it would take more than just one Alicorn to stop her.  Discord could probably do it, but given she got his precious Fluttershy back for him, he is probably more likely to help her (assuming Flutters isn't being upset or hurt) than hinder.

Wait Starlight idolizes Twilight? I don't really see that especially during Season 7. She had a nice teacher student relation but is not afraid to speak out against her like Twilight was with Celestia. When Twilight says it was time to leave she didn't hesitate to voice her desire to stay. Then later she has no problem calling Twilight out on her biases, something Twilight couldn't do to her idols.

[Mirage 24,774]

4 minutes ago, KH7672 said:

Wait Starlight idolizes Twilight? I don't really see that especially during Season 7. She had a nice teacher student relation but is not afraid to speak out against her like Twilight was with Celestia. When Twilight says it was time to leave she didn't hesitate to voice her desire to stay. Then later she has no problem calling Twilight out on her biases, something Twilight couldn't do to her idols.

Hm, yes, I guess they are warming up. But you know, that is just it - Starlight does question Twi, but she's also very subservient and eager to please (she tends to hide her true feelings from her to come off as more loyal than she really feels perhaps) - and that is what is concerning. She kinda flip flops from idolizing to insubordinate. And here's the interesting thing - when she actually is insubordinate, she doesn't really feel that she is being so...it is deflected as a 'tendency' of her past.

Starlight is a strong leader - it's very natural to her. Although she looks up to Twi, I don't think the whole of her being is sold on that yet...even now.

Don't get me wrong, these are all elements of great storytelling, I enjoy the tension and the what if's in all this.

[CypherHoof 26,483]

Just now, KH7672 said:

Wait Starlight idolizes Twilight? I don't really see that especially during Season 7. She had a nice teacher student relation but is not afraid to speak out against her like Twilight was with Celestia. When Twilight says it was time to leave she didn't hesitate to voice her desire to stay. Then later she has no problem calling Twilight out on her biases, something Twilight couldn't do to her idols.

Spoiler

I think the fact she did voice her unwillingness to be graduated, the way that Twi looks huge to her in her dreams (the same way Angel looks to Fluttershy, interestingly enough), her panic over Trixie teleporting the table, and a bunch of other scenes point to how much she looks up to and wants the good opinion of Twi. But equally, she isn't AS fawning as Twi is over Celestia; Trixie was her first "new" friend, and she blew off a dinner with Twi (and Celestia, which mostly explains why Twi was acting the way she was in that episode) to try and cement that friendship (and also of course ran to Trixie FIRST, after the mass changeling upgrade blew the hay out of the top of the changeling hive). Her crippling self-doubts though are yet to be healed, and I think a number of other items could do with healing first if we aren't to get power-crazed Starlight back again, and she needs to look to Twi (or at least somepony, but as it worked out, that's Twi) for the guidance and reassurance she needs until she is whole again.

 

[FlareGun45 2,221]

Starlight never seemed close with the Remane Five. The only ones Starlight seems close with are Twilight, Spike, Trixie, Sunburst, Maud, Thorax, and Discord. So maybe she can form her own little friendship group containing Spike, Trixie, Sunburst, Maud, Thorax, and Discord!

[CypherHoof 26,483]

1 minute ago, Mirage77 said:

Hm, yes, I guess they are warming up. But you know, that is just it - Starlight does question Twi, but she's also very subservient and eager to please (she tends to hide her true feelings from her to come off as more loyal than she really feels perhaps) - and that is what is concerning. She kinda flip flops from idolizing to insubordinate. And here's the interesting thing - when she actually is insubordinate, she doesn't really feel that she is being so...it is deflected as a 'tendency' of her past.

Starlight is a strong leader - it's very natural to her. Although she looks up to Twi, I don't think the whole of her being is sold on that yet...even now.

Don't get me wrong, these are all elements of great storytelling, I enjoy the tension and the what if's in all this.

I think she is strongly independent, and that doesn't mesh well with subservience. But equally, she is both insecure and racked by self-doubt over her own actions. I think she is really needing a parental figure more than a teacher, but Twi is close enough

Just now, MegaSean45 said:

Starlight never seemed close with the Remane Five. The only ones Starlight seems close with are Twilight, Spike, Trixie, Sunburst, Maud, Thorax, and Discord. So maybe she can form her own little friendship group containing Spike, Trixie, Sunburst, Maud, Thorax, and Discord!

I worry about her relationship with Trixie though. She seems to have latched onto her the way she latched onto Sunburst originally, and I just hope she can form a few more deep relationships with other friends so as to spread that out a bit (otherwise she is going to be far too easy for Trixie to take advantage of, and Trixie has backslipped a time or two already....)

[FlareGun45 2,221]

2 minutes ago, CypherHoof said:

I think she is strongly independent, and that doesn't mesh well with subservience. But equally, she is both insecure and racked by self-doubt over her own actions. I think she is really needing a parental figure more than a teacher, but Twi is close enough

I worry about her relationship with Trixie though. She seems to have latched onto her the way she latched onto Sunburst originally, and I just hope she can form a few more deep relationships with other friends so as to spread that out a bit (otherwise she is going to be far too easy for Trixie to take advantage of, and Trixie has backslipped a time or two already....)

Trixie never had another friend before so it's quite understandable, and perhaps... a good idea for an episode!

[CypherHoof 26,483]

2 minutes ago, MegaSean45 said:

Trixie never had another friend before so it's quite understandable, and perhaps... a good idea for an episode!

Sounds about right. Maybe All three of Trixie, Starlight and Discord could do with learning to have a SECOND close friend and after the experience in the S6 Finale it would seem likely Discord was closer to at least Trixie. In his own special way of course

Thorax is a possible too - I shudder to think what Trixie could do with a changeling in her act though if Thorax joins in; Thorax has a couple of episodes to come in this season as I understand it, so perhaps there is room for some more bonding there as well.

Spoiler

Maud is unlikely to join team ANYTHING of course, but seems as happy to have Starlight as a friend as you are likely to see her be (after all, her pet boulder is more expressive than she is)

 

[Johnny1226 14,674]

I think that starlight will create her own version of the mane six possibly including characters like trixie, maud, thorax and discord I don't think it would be a bad idea at all 

[Goat-kun 2,530]

... You'll still have to choose your priorities sooner or later. Pushing a character that is not mashing well with the main cast is not only asinine but not bright at all. This is universally applicable. If you can create a new character that has way better synergy with the main cast then create a new character that has way better synergy with the main cast. However, the ability for such undertaking has not yet been demonstrated.

[CypherHoof 26,483]

9 minutes ago, Johnny1226 said:

I think that starlight will create her own version of the mane six possibly including characters like trixie, maud, thorax and discord I don't think it would be a bad idea at all 

Not sure it is even needed. The hook for the Mane 6 was the whole Elements of Harmony thing - but those are now back where they belong, with the tree. Which isn't to say the Mane 6 shouldn't still be besties, and do the Team Friendship thing in movies etc, but there is little incentive to form an "alternate 6" given they won't really represent anything, and the Mane 6 themselves seem to be being split into pairs for Friendship tasks...

[Johnny1226 14,674]

35 minutes ago, CypherHoof said:

Not sure it is even needed. The hook for the Mane 6 was the whole Elements of Harmony thing - but those are now back where they belong, with the tree. Which isn't to say the Mane 6 shouldn't still be besties, and do the Team Friendship thing in movies etc, but there is little incentive to form an "alternate 6" given they won't really represent anything, and the Mane 6 themselves seem to be being split into pairs for Friendship tasks...

It seems to me that me mane six are much more mature now than before twilight is now on celestias level so she should be pretty much useless in a crisis given her overpoweredness it just seems that things are going into a new generation like the cutie mark crusaders growing up things are changing in Mlp 

[ShootingStar159 2,157]

1 hour ago, KH7672 said:

Wait Starlight idolizes Twilight? I don't really see that especially during Season 7. She had a nice teacher student relation but is not afraid to speak out against her like Twilight was with Celestia. When Twilight says it was time to leave she didn't hesitate to voice her desire to stay. Then later she has no problem calling Twilight out on her biases, something Twilight couldn't do to her idols.

I don't know if I would go so far as to say Starlight idolizes Twilight, but she clearly respects her opinion, maybe even more than her own. We see in Royal Problem, she faces down Celestia and Luna's anger, nervously yes, but with conviction. She's convinced then that switching their Cutie marks was the right call, so convinced she even makes a little quip about them not really having a choice in the matter. Then the very next scene she's doubting herself; so what changed? She told Twilight what she did, and Twilight had a full on mental breakdown because of it. I blame the twenty minute time limit, but I think we'd see Starlight's confidence start to fade during that particular conversation if we got to see it. We see this again in Every Little Thing She Does, where she doesn't really see the problem with what she did until Twilight tells her she messed up.

A lot of Starlight's growth and character is expressed through her facial expressions and the subtext of a scene. One of my favorites is in Royal Problem where Twilight says she is surprised the map would call Starlight. You can just see the moment that little lack of confidence stabs into Glimmy's heart.

Starlight clearly relies on Twilight as a moral compass; she knows her own is screwy, and Twilight has a lot of influence on her because of it.

Edited July 19, 2017 by ShootingStar159

[KH7672 1,604]

1 hour ago, ShootingStar159 said:

A lot of Starlight's growth and character is expressed through her facial expressions and the subtext of a scene. One of my favorites is in Royal Problem where Twilight says she is surprised the map would call Starlight. You can just see the moment that little lack of confidence stabs into Glimmy's heart.

Yes I love those facial expressions, besides Rarity I think Starlight's the second best character the animators use to convey emotions with. From that bulging neck when she's angry, to that absolutely heart broken shot when Trixie holds their friendship over Twilight. That "I like kites" confesion with that desperate look of not being weird. Then of course a Royal Problem with the restrained anger head slam on the desk and that nervous optimistic "I think it's still a good idea" (oh Kelly I love your voice acting)

[Mirage 24,774]

Meh - I still don't trust her. 

She knows she's more powerful than Twilight. She just might test her one more time...